Police Fire at Hong Kong Protesters on Second Day of Extradition Bill Reading

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
418
Tens of thousands of masked protesters are clashing with police in Hong Kong and have forced the government to delay a debate on a highly contentious extradition bill. The government says the legislation is necessary to plug a loophole exposed by a grisly murder case in Taiwan and to prevent Hong Kong becoming a safe haven for fugitives, but critics fear Hongkongers and foreigners in the city risk being sent to mainland China to face unfair trials.
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3014104/thousands-block-roads-downtown-hong-kong-defiant-protest

Protesters tried to block legislators from coming into the Legislative Council Building for the second reading of the bill, which was surrounded by police. Eventually the protest became violent (police accused the protesters of initiating the attack). Police have been seen heavy-handedly bludgeoning protesters and shooting bean bag pellets at protesters, with 22 reportedly injured.

Some pictures:










Been following the live streams and the police brutality has been awful. Just going one step closer to Tiananmen Square...
 

Koukalaka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,766
Scotland
This is really worrying...

What's the HK police's reputation generally been like post-handover? I remember reading they had a bad rep for heavy-handedness during parts of the colonial era.
 

halcali

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,835
Hong Kong SAR
I'll never trust the HK police again! They even beat Westerners and my students who happened to be in the vicinity of Central district! (not protesting)
Completely nonsensical and exactly how the PRC behaves
 
OP
OP
Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
418
Checking out a few twitching stream right now. Most of the streams have unusual amount of Korean chats.
Yeah I'm also surprised by that... wondering where they're getting the links from. Though understandably the Koreans have as much as an appetite as the Hong Kong people for democracy and protests. I'm watching mine here if anyone else is interested: https://www.twitch.tv/ronald_fung
 

Ivalice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
641
LegCo and Carrie Lam must think people are stupid to argue that not being able to extradite people to the PRC is a “loophole”, rather than deliberate because the mainland legal system is a kangaroo court.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,916
All states beat up peaceful protesters and people not even involved?

Wow, the PRC defence force is already here.
I must have missed the memo that the US and PRC represents the entire world.

Also, I’m not even American and I’d much rather deal with the US police than the PRC’s.
The police in the US make it a regular habit to attack and detain journalists. If you'd rather deal with police in the US, you must not be black or just have a huge a gap in knowledge about how terrible police are as an institution and instrument of the state. Maybe both apply.
 

Ivalice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
641
The police in the US make it a regular habit to attack and detain journalists. If you'd rather deal with police in the US, you must not be black or just have a huge a gap in knowledge about how terrible police are as an institution and instrument of the state. Maybe both apply.
I don’t at all disagree with what you say about American police... but I would still rather deal with them than the police in the PRC. The US at least still has some semblance of the rule of the law. The PRC? Not so much. The protesters in HK right now know that hence why they are out fighting to stop the PRC from overtaking HK.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,628
The police in the US make it a regular habit to attack and detain journalists. If you'd rather deal with police in the US, you must not be black or just have a huge a gap in knowledge about how terrible police are as an institution and instrument of the state. Maybe both apply.
Still not anywhere near as bad as mainlaind China, so the comparison is still pretty disingenuous.
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,880
Holy fuck, why'd they batter the water guy?

And let's not turn this into a contest about which country has the worst police. Hopefully there won't be lives lost today.
 

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,280
The police in the US make it a regular habit to attack and detain journalists. If you'd rather deal with police in the US, you must not be black or just have a huge a gap in knowledge about how terrible police are as an institution and instrument of the state. Maybe both apply.
Not him, but I'd definitely prefer US cops over China's. If I die, at least it would probably be a quick death.

On September 9, 2018, Boxun reported that the administration of the hospital where Dong has been sent hospitalized was reportedly asked by the official to feed Dong poison quietly for a long time, aiming that she would die in hospital and never be discharged alive.








I know this forum absolutely despises police in the US, but I can't think of many situations here where cops arrest/kidnap someone and then they're literally never seen from again. Claiming that cops in the US are worse than China's is quite frankly, idiotic.
 
OP
OP
Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
418
The police in the US make it a regular habit to attack and detain journalists. If you'd rather deal with police in the US, you must not be black or just have a huge a gap in knowledge about how terrible police are as an institution and instrument of the state. Maybe both apply.
There's due process in the US. There is none of that in China. Hong Kong wants to at least stop this slipping into PRC jurisdiction right now, even if its inevitable for 2047.

Yeah it's at a standstill right now. Stalemate for both police and protesters. At least they have stopped the second reading so they have somewhat achieved their goal. Now if they could storm into LegCo and just occupy the legislative floor.

For those of you who read/understand Chinese/Cantonese:



For those who don't it's basically Carrie Lam, Chief Executive of Hong Kong, crying crocodile tears at the statement that she's "sold Hong Kong", and that she sees it the other way round as "she sold her heart and soul to Hong Kong". More like she sold it to the CCP...
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,916
I don’t at all disagree with what you say about American police... but I would still rather deal with them than the police in the PRC. The US at least still has some semblance of the rule of the law. The PRC? Not so much. The protesters in HK right now know that hence why they are out fighting to stop the PRC from overtaking HK.

Still not anywhere near as bad as mainlaind China, so the comparison is still pretty disingenuous.
There's nothing to overtake. HK is a part of China. It also has nothing to do with my original response to how this is the modus operandi of the police as an institution and not isolated to Chinese police as implied.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,916
Not him, but I'd definitely prefer US cops over China's. If I die, at least it would probably be a quick death.

I know this forum absolutely despises police in the US, but I can't think of many situations here where cops arrest/kidnap someone and then they're literally never seen from again. Claiming that cops in the US are worse than China's is quite frankly, idiotic.
I never claimed they were worse.
 

Ivalice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
641
That's nice. Extra pressure from external forces would definitely pressure Carrie to think twice.
That previous tweet there really worries me.

“Congress must look to revise the Hong Kong Policy Act of 1992 to reflect the erosion of autonomy.”

That’s the last HK thing needs right now. US would essentially be throwing them to the wolves.
 

Ivalice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
641
There's nothing to overtake. HK is a part of China. It also has nothing to do with my original response to how this is the modus operandi of the police as an institution and not isolated to Chinese police as implied.
Nothing to overtake? Tell that to the protesters right now. They are out there exactly because the PRC is trying to take away HK’s freedoms and absorb it into the mainland. West Kowloon train terminal and the Macau-Zhuhai-HK bridge made it obvious what the PRC was trying to do but this extradition bill couldn’t be a bigger red flag that they want to absorb HK into the mainland and destroy their rights and civil liberties.
 

Mihai_

Banned
Sep 25, 2018
216
I know this forum absolutely despises police in the US, but I can't think of many situations here where cops arrest/kidnap someone and then they're literally never seen from again. Claiming that cops in the US are worse than China's is quite frankly, idiotic.
Here you go: https://www.resetera.com/threads/black-veteran-dies-in-police-custody-his-body-is-released-to-the-family-missing-his-brain-throat-and-heart.121760/
Also, watch this video: https://www.resetera.com/threads/citizen-helps-stops-cops-from-shooting-unarmed-man-on-knees-hands-up-and-unarmed.122781/

That said, both countries (America and China) are equally shit when it comes to police abuse, despite you thinking it's idiotic to say US cops are worse.
US cops are at least equally as bad as China's authoritarian regime. You can close your eyes to it, but it doesn't mean you're right nor does it mean that other people will agree with you.

Ask people of color who lost relatives at the hands of cops if they think Chinese cops are worst than US cops.
 

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,280
Here you go: https://www.resetera.com/threads/black-veteran-dies-in-police-custody-his-body-is-released-to-the-family-missing-his-brain-throat-and-heart.121760/
Also, watch this video: https://www.resetera.com/threads/citizen-helps-stops-cops-from-shooting-unarmed-man-on-knees-hands-up-and-unarmed.122781/

That said, both countries (America and China) are equally shit when it comes to police abuse, despite you thinking it's idiotic to say US cops are worse.
US cops are at least equally as bad as China's authoritarian regime. You can close your eyes to it, but it doesn't mean you're right nor does it mean that other people will agree with you.

Ask people of color who lost relatives at the hands of cops if they think Chinese cops are worst than US cops.
I'm not sure why you bolded that part of my post when both of your links have absolutely nothing to do with that? I said people get arrested in China and might never be seen from again. The family of the guy in the first link still got some version of closer. Both links show that cops (and the justice system) here is awful too, but Chinese cops being worse =/= US cops are pure angels who do nothing wrong. Please link me to where I said cops here were perfect, because you're putting words in my mouth.

I'm not closing my eyes at all, hell, I even acknowledged in my post that cops here aren't exactly angels either.

I'd say leaving families wondering what happened to their relatives and essentially acting like that person never existed is worse than murder and closure. I'd prefer nobody have to deal with either of them, but I know if a relative of mine died in police custody I'd like to at least know that's what happened instead of being left wondering for years. I think both countries are horrific in this regard, but China is absolutely worse. I don't see US cops sending people to color to hospitals and then slowly having them pumped full of poison.
 
Last edited:

Mihai_

Banned
Sep 25, 2018
216
I'm not sure why you bolded that part of my post when both of your links have absolutely nothing to do with that? I said people get arrested in China and might never be seen from again. The family of the guy in the first link still got some version of closer.

I'm not closing my eyes at all, hell, I even acknowledged in my post that cops here aren't exactly angels either.

I'd say leaving families wondering what happened to their relatives and essentially acting like that person never existed is worse than murder and closure. I'd prefer nobody have to deal with either of them, but I know if a relative of mine died in police custody I'd like to at least know that's what happened instead of being left wondering for years. I think both countries are horrific in this regard, but China is absolutely worse.
I agree with the first part of the bolded sentece, disagree with the second part.

As for the bolded part, you said you don't know any instance where people were arrested and then never seen again in the US. The first link I posted is about a person of color who wen to the police to sort a past DUI warrant. Police murdered him and returned his body (missing throat, heart and brain) to the family without any explanation other than 'died in custody'. This is some Saudi Arabia Khashoggi murder type of story.

I recommend reading the article and the topic. It's as horrigying as anything you hear about China or things that happen in unstable countries from the third world. I'd say it's worse that it happens in America, which is a democracy that (at least on paper) values its citizens' lives.
I'm expecting this shit to happen in China cuz I know the PRC doesn't value life. But I'm not expecting it to happen in America, which is why it's worse in my opinion.
Feel free to disagree though.
 
OP
OP
Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
418
I'm expecting this shit to happen in China cuz I know the PRC doesn't value life. But I'm not expecting it to happen in America, which is why it's worse in my opinion.
Feel free to disagree though.
Let's not get into oppression Olympics here. Both are valid and both are painful. Injustice in China where there is no due process, and injustice in US knowing that there is due process. Both are equally bad. But at least in a democracy the truth can be told and spread around.

Bur let's focus on the actual case here where Hong Kong has had no such prior instances, but in the past 5 or so years these freedoms have slowly been eroded away. Hong Kong is becoming China. We knew this would happen in 2047, but this is too rapid.

It's not a PRC thing. All states do this.
Other states do it under their own authority and sovereignty. However, all of this is done under a puppet state controlled by the PRC. The Hong Kong police were never this heavy handed in the past.
 
Last edited:

Mihai_

Banned
Sep 25, 2018
216
Let's not get into oppression Olympics here. Both are valid and both are painful. Injustice in China where there is no due process, and injustice in US knowing that there is due process. Both are equally bad. But at least in a democracy the truth can be told and spread around.

Bur let's focus on the actual case here where Hong Kong has had no such prior instances, but in the past 5 or so years these freedoms have slowly been eroded away. Hong Kong is becoming China. We knew this would happen in 2047, but this is too rapid.



Other states do it under their own authority and sovereignty. However, all of this is done under a puppet state controlled by the PRC. The Hong Kong police were never this heavy handed in the past.
Yeah unfortunately freedoms will keep eroding in Hong Kong.
In my opinion UK has a moral duty to intervene, but right now the British government can't even help itself.

The cynic in me thinks these protests won't help things and the PRC wil have its way. In my opinion the international community should put pressure on China, but I don't see that happenning due to obvious reasons.

You seriously rather be arrested in China?
If you're a person of color, then yes, I honestly think it's safer for you to be arrested in China than in the US.
 

spx54

Member
Mar 21, 2019
939
those images are crazy. we should all admire the courage of these protestors.

and yeah seeing this kind of violence on the 30th anniversary of Tiananmen is kind of eerie
 
OP
OP
Kaseoki

Kaseoki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
418
The cynic in me thinks these protests won't help things and the PRC wil have its way. In my opinion the international community should put pressure on China, but I don't see that happenning due to obvious reasons.
Everyone knows 2047 is inevitable. But at least they would rather die knowing that they tried, rather than living a dystopian life of regret.

If you're a person of color, then yes, I honestly think it's safer for you to be arrested in China than in the US.
If you're a Uygher you get abducted and sent to a concentration camp. Can we please stop with the oppression Olympics? Both are just as bad within their own contexts. The topic at hand is China moving in over to grab Hong Kong. Not US or any other whataboutisms.
 

Youngfossil

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,094
I agree with the first part of the bolded sentece, disagree with the second part.

As for the bolded part, you said you don't know any instance where people were arrested and then never seen again in the US. The first link I posted is about a person of color who wen to the police to sort a past DUI warrant. Police murdered him and returned his body (missing throat, heart and brain) to the family without any explanation other than 'died in custody'. This is some Saudi Arabia Khashoggi murder type of story.

I recommend reading the article and the topic. It's as horrigying as anything you hear about China or things that happen in unstable countries from the third world. I'd say it's worse that it happens in America, which is a democracy that (at least on paper) values its citizens' lives.
I'm expecting this shit to happen in China cuz I know the PRC doesn't value life. But I'm not expecting it to happen in America, which is why it's worse in my opinion.
Feel free to disagree though.
Yes it sucks that that shit happens in the US, but heres the deal, you actually know about it, which means a citizens we can actually do something about it. In China you just disappear. Full stop.

If you're a person of color, then yes, I honestly think it's safer for you to be arrested in China than in the US.
come on bruh
 

Mihai_

Banned
Sep 25, 2018
216
User Banned (Duration Pending) Inflammatory false equivalence; previous severe infraction surrounding racism.
Everyone knows 2047 is inevitable. But at least they would rather die knowing that they tried, rather than living a dystopian life of regret.



If you're a Uygher you get abducted and sent to a concentration camp. Can we please stop with the oppression Olympics? Both are just as bad within their own contexts. The topic at hand is China moving in over to grab Hong Kong. Not US or any other whataboutisms.
I just replied to the guy. I get that's not the topic but everyone here seems to talk about it, being upset when someone points police behaviour in America.
I get that people don't like to hear it, but that's the truth. As you said, police inn both countries is shit.
Also, the whataboutism was started by another guy talking about American and Chinese police. I just replied to him, so yeah...

And yeah, I agree with you. The context of Uyghur people in China is similar to what the police does to people of color in America. Both are equally bad.
Anyway this is my last post about this subject.
 
Last edited:

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,119
I just replied to the guy. I get that's not the topic but everyone here seems to talk about it, being upset when someone points police behaviour in America.
I get that people don't like to hear it, but that's the truth. As you said, police inn both countries is shit.
Also, the whataboutism was started by another guy talking about American and Chinese police. I just replied to him, so yeah...

And yeah, I agree with you. The context of Uyghur people in China is similar to what the police does to people of color in America. Both are equally bad.
Anyway this is my last post about this subject.
So you believe the US is operating concentration camps on its citizens.