Politico: Mueller Releases Itemized List (Manafort Trial)

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,551
Remember when I and lots of other people said that MANY Bernie or Busters would flock over to Trump? And the Bernie-Bros here laughed and jeered?

Now who's laughing?

Not me, this is disgusting. Shame on Old Man Sanders.
 

incognito

Member
Oct 28, 2017
893
Holy shit. I don't think Sanders is a Russian puppet, but his campaign team being corrupted would explain at of it's choices. Especially post Super Tuesday
To me, it also raises suspicion about Trump's lamentations over Bernie's supposed treatment. I mean, normally what the hell would any Republican care about the Democratic primary? He also courted the Bernie voters. It could just be a case of Trump being Trump, capitalizing on divides. But I'm remembering back to the time when supposedly there was a data breach where the Sanders campaign was able to access voter information from the Clinton campaign....hrmmm
 

Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,465
Miami
The entire crux of his campaign was taking money out of politics, and especially against Hillary, it would be an obvious line of attack. If he didn't try to bring up her corporate connections as a way of impugning her fitness to be the nominee, he might as well have never run at all.

Not to mention that only 12% of Sanders supporters ended up voting for Trump. In 2008, 25% of Clinton supporters ended up voting for McCain.
I don't want to relitigate all of this again but two points; you can completely campaign on the idea of campaign reform and taking big money out if politics without making your opponent and likely nominee the poster child for corruption. I doubt that 2016 was your first Presidential campaign regardless of how young you are but take a look back at previous primaries to see how you run against other candidates without poisoning them in the general. The last time something like what happened in 2016 happened to the Democrats was Carter vs Kennedy and Ted killed any slim chance Carter had at reelection.

The 2nd point is that it doesn't matter how many Sanders voters voted for Trump, what matters is how many stayed home because "both sides were the same". Based on turnout that was the deciding factor in the election.
 

King Tubby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
582
Isn’t 12% in WI and PA of Bernie voters enough to flip the election to Clinton ? Wasn’t WI and PA one of the best performing Bernie states
The point is that it seems to be a fairly normal percentage of defections. Clinton lost ~12% of Sanders voters to Trump, but also gained 12% of voters who voted in the Republican primary. (source) I don't really see much evidence to suggest that Sanders' campaign tactics meaningfully affected Hillary in the general, aside from the fact that it was a very close election and any tiny variable could have had a decisive impact. I think it was really, really low on the list.

The 2nd point is that it doesn't matter how many Sanders voters voted for Trump, what matters is how many stayed home because "both sides were the same". Based on turnout that was the deciding factor in the election.
Even factoring in non-voters and third-parties, 75% of Sanders voters voted for Hillary in the general. In 2008, Obama only got 70% of the Clinton vote (25% McCain, 5% didn't vote or 3rd party).

The biggest determining factor to a defection was not really any major policy position, anyway (the difference in approval of TPP mattered, but not very much). It was racism.
 
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Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,275
I knew Bernie was being propped up, but I thought it was just Andrew McCarthy pulling the strings.

:(



Man, if Bernie is wrapped up in this, I'm am fucking DONE.

GAME OVER, MAN. GAME OVER.
 

AegonSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,626
https://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/29/bernie-sanders-campaign-dnc-data/


The statement said all of the search results were saved in a computer system except in one instance, when a Sanders staffer exported information using Clinton data for New Hampshire.

In statement released Friday, the Sanders campaign said that an investigation of their computers could not locate the exported file, and that no one in the Sanders campaign had ever seen it.
lol you cant be serious. Exported and sent straight to Russia of course.

I cant believe this guy hasnt been reported to Mueller. Firing isnt enough.

lol exactly. this forum will go down in flames. Civil War 2.0.
 

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,617
Manafort also worked with Tony Podesta, John Podesta's brother, if you want a Hillary connection too. I think we should cool off a little with this "Bernie's campaign was probably compromised" thing unless there's other evidence.
 

B-Dubs

Oh well, what the hell?
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
15,506
At this point there's no reason to believe that Tad Devine is currently under investigation by Muller or has done anything wrong, just that he's being called on to provide evidence. So let's stay on topic and not veer off into relitigating the 2016 Democratic primaries.
 

Koo

Member
Dec 10, 2017
1,744
User Warned: Continuing Derailment + Ignoring Modpost
No it's not and I feel like I beat my head against a wall bloody trying to make fellow posters understand this early in 2016. You absolutely do not run a campaign against a candidate in your same party (or same side supposedly in this case) where your main point of emphasis is that the other candidate is corrupt and a corporate shill. That kind of rhetoric permanently damages the other candidate in the eyes of your supporters. Sanders was still giving speeches calling Hillary corrupt as late a July if I remember correctly before he then flipped and started campaign on her behalf as the only candidate who could stop Trump. But you can't undo the damage of telling people who trust you that your opponent is a criminal and that line of attack paid Trump and the suppression campaign huge dividends in the fall.
Agree wholeheartedly but Bernie's supporters can't hear this. I tried myself explaining to people back then that whenever he does drop out of the primary he's already done a lot of damage to Hillary.
 

platocplx

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,448
Waiting for more information on devines connection, however this does not bode well at all, unless he reported manafort or is he one of the witnesses that has pleaded the 5th?
 

Skunk

Member
Oct 28, 2017
652
Jesus Christ, now Trump is never gonna shut up with his “The only collusion was on the part of the Democrats” shit.
 

Chamaeleonx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,348
Bernie Sanders has tad Devine and had the endorsement of xenophobe and racist Tulsi Gabbard. Glenn Greenwald who is as pro Putin as they come supported Bernie Sanders campaign and recently supported the progressive Cortez who upended a power pro Hillary democrat from power

It’s all connected

Maybe these “progressive” democrats are not really progressive
It looks more like sowing chaos in my opinion. If you support infighting you can conquer and rule. I doubt Putin would want for the democrats to completely go left because that would go against everything he wants to achieve. Therefore only a bit infighting is needed. In that sense Hillary was the perfect candidate due to her weaknesses.
 

Cybit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
993
This thread is not about the 2016 primary I will turn this forum around right now
I DONT WANNA.

That said, the reading comprehension in this thread is kind of astoundingly bad. I think everyone's completely missing your posts about how this means "he might be a witness". Hrm, the guy who used to work with Manafort might have something useful to contribute in investigating Manafort? THE HORROR.

Isn’t 12% in WI and PA of Bernie voters enough to flip the election to Clinton ? Wasn’t WI and PA one of the best performing Bernie states
Anything could have flipped the election. Like, a rainstorm, etc. I mean, there's also a non zero chance that someone besides Trump either loses dramatically to Clinton or outright obliterates her. See the link below on how insanely close the election was in those three states. To say that Bernie was the reason is very, uh, motivated reasoning.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2017/11/01/441926/voter-trends-in-2016/
 

Ceyrun

Banned
Jun 26, 2018
16
Given what's been happening in Europe outside of the UK in countries like Germany I don't think it's just a weakness in two party systems.

The hell are you talking about? Political Science is pretty sure about Two-Party-Systems being significantly more in danger of being overtaken by extremists. The US is considered a flawed democracy, also an objective finding by political science, and the reasons why are structural and have very little to do with Russians posting memes on Facebook despite centrists being extremely eager to blame Russians.

Seriously, please explain what exactly is happening "in countries like Germany". AfD is 15%. Your president is Donald Trump.
 

Ceyrun

Banned
Jun 26, 2018
16
User Banned (Permanent): Trolling, ignoring a modpost, account still in the junior phase, previous ban for similar.
Remember when I and lots of other people said that MANY Bernie or Busters would flock over to Trump? And the Bernie-Bros here laughed and jeered?

Now who's laughing?

Not me, this is disgusting. Shame on Old Man Sanders.

The overwhelming amount of Bernie voters voted Hillary, and most of the rest did not vote, or voted Jill Stein. Your post is an imflammatory lie.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
6,713
Also just to put into perspective the 2016 US election with the 2017 French election who both got targetted by Putin's Russia.
Only 1 candidate in 2017 had any position that couldn't be readily deemed as pro Russian or didn't have connection to Russia.
Even smaller candidates like Asselineau were visibly propped up by that certain eastern foreign power.
It would be absolutely not surprising that Russia would try to support in 1 way or another every single candidate that wasn't Clinton.
 

TetraGenesis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,794
User warned: continuing a derail and ignoring a modpost saying to stop
So he was a useful idiot then.

A lot of us wondered why he didnt drop out after getting blown out two super tuesdays in a row. A lot of us wondered why he didnt concede even after he lost the primary. A lot of us cringed at seeing him turn the NY debate public on her by bringing up her credentials and the speeches.

He attacked her from the left which made her go from a centrist to a full on liberal and probably cost her votes.
Bullshit. If Hillary had gone further left she would have gotten more votes. The true left is extremely untapped which is why Bernie was popular.

Edit: Was behind in the thread and didn't see the mod edit, I apologize for contributing to the derail.
 
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