Politico: Sanders Camp Admits Anti-Warren Script Was Deployed in Multiple Early States

gutter_trash

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,024
Montreal
Some of you didn’t read the article and it shows. Politico actually takes the time to explain the origins of this controversy and who said (or didn’t say) what. It’s really goofy reading this article and then seeing the hot takes. Especially after how mundane the original news of this was.
Now, it no longer matters because the damage is done.

Supporters from Camp A are furious at Supporters form Camp B and vice versa
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,112
Inevitable when you hire noted Jill Stein supporters like Sirota and Nina Turner as top staff. They don't give a fuck if the Democratic Party loses in November.
 

SoZetaSlow

Member
Sep 20, 2019
955
it doesn't seem like an omission so much as too simplified for some people's liking
Of course candidates wouldn't approve of everything like that, but this frame only works if nobody on his staff bought the script to him after it gained headlines to keep him out of the loop and Bernie isn't discliplining for keeping him in the dark.
or he is discipling but not being loud about it cause he isn't about performative punishment?
just reply to this post when the moment of realization eventually arrives
is the joke that there are no biden supporters on the forum?
 

Stinkles

343 Industries
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,684
I'd say Obama supporting Warren or Sanders would tank Biden's chances. He's only being held up by black voters, many of who simply think he has the best shot of winning, or are most familiar with him from his long history, but I'd wager a portion because of his association with Obama as his VP
Obama isn't endorsing Bernie unless Bernie gets the nomination or like Tulsi somehow takes the lead and Biden is eroded away by a slight gust.
 

umop 3pisdn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,562
Sanders does something that has plausible deniability : Indefinite defense force

Sanders does something that has no deniability : "lol it's nothin"
I argued it was nothing when we still thought it was just a staffer. Warren's base is predominantly white affluent and educated, you can't slander someone with the truth.

People particularly bozos on the internet take different tacks to arguing points and sometimes opt for the easier one. Who could have thought.
 

Poodlestrike

It's salt.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,534
The ridiculous part is the Warren crew saying “Bernie people can’t take criticism” when he’s accused of blatant sexism, meanwhile they are freaking out over something as benign as...”she doesn’t expand the base and her supporters are wealthier”

The projection and lack of self awareness is just astonishing.
Fwiw, this is a little off topic, so I'm not gonna get too into it, but I think there's probably a more nuanced read on the dinner story too.
Congrats Joe Biden and his running mate Mayor Pete.
Begins vomiting

Does not stop

This isn’t the first time the Sanders camp did this and why I was so against him in 2016.
The true move of a real political supergenius would be to announce Bernie or Warren as VP without asking them. Can't run against me if they're part of my campaign!

Galaxy brain.
 

aeolist

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
Like I said, it's only a little unfair. She does have appeal outside of the groups currently pledged to her, and it does erase them. It's also hard to argue on the merits when the only person currently drawing unusually high support in General polling as opposed to the Primary is... uh... Biden.

they're essentially tied in hypothetical head-to-heads and the sanders base is a lot more solid and enthusiastic, going by other polls

I would agree that most of the fuss on this has been from people spoiling for a fight, but that does cut both ways. Some people getting a little upset at perceived unfairness doesn't really merit the response it got from some pro-Bernie people. So now the two camps (the Very Online portions of them, anyway) are at each others' throats for... reasons?
i don't think the response from pro-bernie people was anything other than "well yeah that's all true" because it is. the warren people are the ones who hyper-overreacted to any attempt to differentiate between the candidates.

i mean, what are canvassers supposed to say? "yeah warren is great too, just as much as sanders. in fact you should just vote for her." or maybe "here's a detailed breakdown of aggregated demographic polling data, draw your own conclusions."
 

GiantBreadbug

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,745
TIL that one of the essential rules of realpolitik 69-dimension chess is that any and all mention of factual data about your opponents' records, demographics of support, etc that reflect poorly on their campaign are direct acts of violence and are immediately disqualifying
 

Fhtagn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,522
This isn’t the first time the Sanders camp did this and why I was so against him in 2016.
Every political campaign has moments like this, but usually the controversy or walkback isn't about something so comically minor. Even calling this script "anti-Warren" is hyperbole.

Just like in 2016, it really feels like a big chunk of Dems are mad that anyone is actually campaigning for the spot instead of letting the person who's turn it is to go uncontested. At least this time there are a half dozen reasonable choices for who's turn it is.
 

Stinkles

343 Industries
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,684
all the biden supporters on the forum are probably loudly complaining about this too
I honestly don't think this constituency exists beyond "he's infinitely better than Trump and his Camaro is sweet "

Bernie absolutely needs to offload some of the anarchists and Dem-haters from his campaign though. Most of his missteps have been by proxy idiots like Nina.
 

Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,299
Shameful Sanders Campaign Admits It Trying to Encourage People to Vote for Bernie, Discourage Voting for Other Candidates
 

saenima

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,776
Anti Berners keep making the mistake of thinking his supporters are in a personality cult type affair when the truth is that most don't give a shit whether it's Bernie or Shmernie. They're here for the policies and the possibilities and the leftward swing and the urgently needed change. Bernie is merely a face for something much bigger and more important.

So keep fucking that chicken, because most of this movement supporters don't give a shit about it.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,472
The ridiculous part is the Warren crew saying “Bernie people can’t take criticism” when he’s accused of blatant sexism, meanwhile they are freaking out over something as benign as...”she doesn’t expand the base and her supporters are wealthier”

The projection and lack of self awareness is just astonishing.
Warren supporters are an awful lot like Trump cultists 🤔
/s
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,948
Anti Berners keep making the mistake of thinking his supporters are in a personality cult type affair when the truth is that most don't give a shit whether it's Bernie or Shmernie. They're here for the policies and the possibilities and the leftward swing and the urgently needed change. Bernie is merely a face for something much bigger and more important.

So keep fucking that chicken, because most of this movement supporters don't give a shit about it.
That's strange considering people seem really personally charged when talking about a specific person and not really so much his policies.

I'm seeing a lot of personal effort defending the person Bernie Sanders... especially if the majority of folks don't even give a shit about him!
 

Loan Wolf

Member
Nov 9, 2017
2,105
Considering Bernie's track record with his staff (see the smear campaign against Hillary during the 2016 primary), I'm not surprised he's spilled blood for the media sharks to start framing a bad narrative about him.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
TIL that one of the essential rules of realpolitik 69-dimension chess is that any and all mention of factual data about your opponents' records, demographics of support, etc that reflect poorly on their campaign are direct acts of violence and are immediately disqualifying
and that's why "bernie bro" is fine to say

I'm going to be really mad if the stupidity over the last few days results in Biden regaining his edge in the primaries. There was no reason for either campaign to act like this at this point of the race.
he was already climbing in Iowa and NH before this news broke and even if he loses them it's anybody's guess whether it will actually shake his huge lead
 

Velg

Member
Jan 6, 2018
178
This shit is so petty. I don’t care who it is, it has to be one of them. The other candidates are terrible. Biden must be so happy.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,431
Warren is despicably clever to have set up Bernie like this. Diabolical planning and sadistic execution.

Joke's on her though because not one single Bernie supporter frothingly denied the story yesterday or accused her of making it all up to undermine the agreement to not go negative. Everyone was rational and waited till today's honorable and frankly admirable admission a small paperwork error.

Meanwhile Biden gathers more dust, like a dessicated but friendly corpse in a Spielberg movie, sitting idly by till he says something crazy next about black people or breast feeding or something.
Underrated post.
 

saenima

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,776
That's strange considering people seem really personally charged when talking about a specific person and not really so much his policies.

I'm seeing a lot of personal effort defending the person Bernie Sanders... especially if the majority of folks don't even give a shit about him!
You could see a whole slew of different things if you allowed yourself to. There's a whole world of possibilities beyond the status quo.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,502
I do love how Bernie's not responsible for anything his campaign does, even when he's the one saying the things people have an issue with. I love cults of personality.
 

N. Tyranno

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,631
It doesn’t matter what the actual script was. What matters is that Bernie put this out, and then said he didn’t. It’s a lie. It’s a lie that’s not really worth anything, that he didn’t even need to make because the script was fine, which makes the fact that he lied even more stupid. He made it sound like something that he wanted to hide, which in turn made something that wasn’t an attack actually an attack.

This is also after a thread where everyone swore up and down that Bernie is trustworthy, that he wouldn’t try to smear or discredit Warren using dirty tactics, and then he got caught red handed doing exactly that.

A lie is still a lie regardless of whether he was covering up something wrong or not. And it wasn’t even worth it. That doesn’t just make him a liar, it makes him extremely stupid.
 

SoZetaSlow

Member
Sep 20, 2019
955
That's strange considering people seem really personally charged when talking about a specific person and not really so much his policies.

I'm seeing a lot of personal effort defending the person Bernie Sanders... especially if the majority of folks don't even give a shit about him!
if there were other candidates as far left as him, or even better further left than him, you'd see similar defense for them as well. like can libs stop calling the supporters of leftists cults of personality please? Cause I saw the same rhetoric from Yellow Tories supporters about Corbyn during the GE
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,948
if there were other candidates as far left as him, or even better further left than him, you'd see similar defense for them as well
It's funny because Warren was considered as far left as Sanders until she didn't endorse him in 2016. I very much remember the drama of her lack of an endorsement in 2016 in Massachusetts.

Now some years later she's being labeled as "status quo" and "establishment".

It's almost like it's... 100% personal and not at all tied to policy!
 

Velg

Member
Jan 6, 2018
178
It's funny because Warren was considered as far left as Sanders until she didn't endorse him in 2016. I very much remember the drama of her lack of an endorsement in 2016 in Massachusetts.

Now some years later she's being labeled as "status quo" and "establishment".

It's almost like it's... 100% personal and not at all tied to policy!
How can someone who was a republican ever have been considered as far left as Bernie?

I’m sure you’re going to pull out your facts though and share
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
Its always the same suspects.

Although to be honest, i dont know why anyone would be hesitant to admit this in the Sanders camp. Yeah your going to let voters know about the positions of your rivals including Warren. If they were instructed to let supporters of Warren know about her base of support and positions on things like m4a like they probably are for Biden and others, that should just be considered normal strategy.

It shouldent be something they consider a scandal to try and obfuscate. Although Warren claiming "Bernie sent his volunteers out to trash me" is pretty much the same sort of rhetoric of the "he said a woman cant be president" type of misleading. Yeah, you let voters know of your rival's weaknesses in a primary, including when you go door to door, that's exactly what you do.

It would be like saying the campaign criticizing her on standing rock is "trashing her". Its not unfair at all, although i understand attacking Biden during debates instead of each other.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Anti Berners keep making the mistake of thinking his supporters are in a personality cult type affair when the truth is that most don't give a shit whether it's Bernie or Shmernie. They're here for the policies and the possibilities and the leftward swing and the urgently needed change. Bernie is merely a face for something much bigger and more important.

So keep fucking that chicken, because most of this movement supporters don't give a shit about it.
'Not giving a shit' would be showing apathy, not going on the defensive to defend your candidate. If that were true this issue wouldn't be so heated with Warren as a candidate, instead many supporters instantly turned on her - looking like they needed an excuse to justify that response.

Well I guess we're at an impasse then

I get the point but again I don't think performative punishment is really his thing, especially considering how tame the script was even if they used it without his permission
That you think this is about how tame the script was is missing the point about why this become controversial. If you're right about Bernie with disciplining people that is not encouraging.

Yeah. I was a Bernie supporter until this, now i'm voting Bolsonaro. Changed my nationality and everything out of shame.
Tell me, why do Bernie supporters deflect to hyperbole 'jokes' when confronted with people who dislike what they're candidate is doing? Is this performance art? An attempt to confuse your opponents? Thinly veiled attacks disguised as jokes?
 

umop 3pisdn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,562
It's funny because Warren was considered as far left as Sanders until she didn't endorse him in 2016

Now some years later she's being labeled as "status quo" and "establishment".

It's almost like it's... 100% personal and not at all tied to policy!
Or she made a bunch of unforced errors to the point that she looks a lot more equivocal than first thought putting her out of step with what people want from a supposed progressive.
 

SoZetaSlow

Member
Sep 20, 2019
955
It's funny because Warren was considered as far left as Sanders until she didn't endorse him in 2016. I very much remember the drama of her lack of an endorsement in 2016 in Massachusetts.

Now some years later she's being labeled as "status quo" and "establishment".

It's almost like it's... 100% personal and not at all tied to policy!
she was? I mean if you say so, that wasn't the case in my eyes or anybody I've seen online but I suppose this could just be a case of different circles?
That you think this is about how tame the script was is missing the point about why this become controversial. If you're right about Bernie with disciplining people that is not encouraging.
how is my theory that he's not going against his principles over such a minor mistake on these staffers parts somehow bad? Like i get that if he lied, which he didn't thats bad, but not making a pantomine out of firing people who made a mistake of using a tame asf script without checking with him first isn't some major offense
 

Poodlestrike

It's salt.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,534
they're essentially tied in hypothetical head-to-heads and the sanders base is a lot more solid and enthusiastic, going by other polls
So, we don't have good poll aggregators for the general right now (because the good aggregators don't work on general election polls this far out, by and large), but glancing at RCP that doesn't really check out. They've got a lotta junk though, so you could very well be right, but the point is - most polls still give Biden the bigger lead in the general, so it's not really the safest rhetorical ground, IMO.
i don't think the response from pro-bernie people was anything other than "well yeah that's all true" because it is. the warren people are the ones who hyper-overreacted to any attempt to differentiate between the candidates.

i mean, what are canvassers supposed to say? "yeah warren is great too, just as much as sanders. in fact you should just vote for her." or maybe "here's a detailed breakdown of aggregated demographic polling data, draw your own conclusions."
Oh, trust me, there were plenty of other responses. We had people quoting Shaun King of all people accusing Warren and her supporters of engaging in a massive smear campaign by inventing the script. It was deeply dumb, and even though it wasn't all that many people in the grand scheme of things, it definitely served to advance the needless agita.

As for canvassers, most of those scripts are terrible, so in that grand tradition I would have them say something like "Senator Warren is a great friend of Senator Sanders, but Sanders' policies are better for XYZ reasons" or something to that effect. Truth be told, it's a small hit, so like, the distinction here - between saying Bernie is more electable and Warren is less electable - is going to be small. But hey, it'd be another way of going about it.
TIL that one of the essential rules of realpolitik 69-dimension chess is that any and all mention of factual data about your opponents' records, demographics of support, etc that reflect poorly on their campaign are direct acts of violence and are immediately disqualifying
Eh, something can be bad without being catastrophic. Hell, it can be bad without even being bad-bad. Nothing about this needed to be escalated.
 

Horns

Member
Dec 7, 2018
1,104
Another "rogue staff member" at it again. Didn't they already use that excuse in 2016 when their staff was accessing information they should not have?
 
Nov 20, 2017
3,547
if there were other candidates as far left as him, or even better further left than him, you'd see similar defense for them as well. like can libs stop calling the supporters of leftists cults of personality please? Cause I saw the same rhetoric from Yellow Tories supporters about Corbyn during the GE
Would you agree this list includes Gabbard and Gravel?