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Politico: Sanders Camp Admits Anti-Warren Script Was Deployed in Multiple Early States

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,893
I have knowledge of the workings of the volunteering team so I recognized that the script was likely legitimate from the start.

Actually argued with a few folks who were repeating the 'volunteer banned from slack' line. We browsed through the official responses and none of them were anywhere close to 'lying'.

The mass of online volunteers somehow assumed that they had access to all the phonebanking/texting info started spreading the rumor that it was a banned volunteer.

The truth is that a few low level staffers were starting up a 'persuasion' team to try and convince 2s or 3s to back Bernie. What's in the scripts are the mildest facts being listed. That some people consider it to be 'trashing' or an attack is absurd. And it's pretty telling that the focus is on the Warren when the Biden/Buttigieg script portion (which was also listed) are more scathing.
 

Space Madness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
827
Perhaps, just perhaps, at some point it'd be good for people to be self aware about the constant bad hirings and stuff like this to perhaps admit that there is a reason it keeps happening and that perhaps it isn't inspite of the person at the very top.

This script is weak sauce. Lying about it is not the behavior I want to see. That's the problem.

Why should I believe his version of events on the 2018 meeting given it just turned out he was lying about this?

Credibility matters. Being *less* of a liar than Trump isn't going to be good enough.
Oh, please. He's not comparable to trump.

Being *less* conservative than Trump isn't going to be good enough either.
 

plagiarize

To its ports I have been
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
10,358
Cape Cod, MA
Oh, please. He's not comparable to trump.

Being *less* conservative than Trump isn't going to be good enough either.
I'm saying he needs to do better. If he wins I am gladly supporting him. This has been completely mishandled. He can't afford for his campaign to keep fucking up.

Everyone in the democratic primary is less conservative than Trump. Not sure what you are alluding to there.
 

GuessMyUserName

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,963
Toronto
Such a frustrating week as someone that would happily support both candidates and desperately hopes for a non-Pete/Biden victory.

Ugh, Bernie and Warren have had enough on their plate working together to push progressive policy against the moderate flank of the debate stages. Please dear god I hope they both just come together again and squash these terribly stupid fights, they're just so dumb and unnecessary.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,776
'Not giving a shit' would be showing apathy, not going on the defensive to defend your candidate. If that were true this issue wouldn't be so heated with Warren as a candidate, instead many supporters instantly turned on her - looking like they needed an excuse to justify that response.
You're confusing going on the defensive with mocking the stupidity of it all.

Tell me, why do Bernie supporters deflect to hyperbole 'jokes' when confronted with people who dislike what they're candidate is doing? Is this performance art? An attempt to confuse your opponents? Thinly veiled attacks disguised as jokes?
Because some arguments merit no serious response. It would be giving them a weight they don't have.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,538
Memoghazi has been the dumbest drama of the entire primary and it's had more discussion than Pete's fake black endorsements thing.
 

Brazil

The Dude of Prophecy
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
10,583
São Paulo, Brazil
The insipidness of this whole thing... The fact that people are trying to make something out of what might be one of the most benign documents of its kind in history is mind-blowing.

Memoghazi has been the dumbest drama of the entire primary and it's had more discussion than Pete's fake black endorsements thing.
Now there's a story that fizzled out with haste.
 

Space Madness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
827
It's not like I've been given much of an argument.
You're under the mistaken impression that people need to disprove terrible arguments. "____, prove me wrong" is just a meme. You're implying that no other candidate's script uses language like Bernie's because the media hasn't published any other candidate's script. It's nonsense.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,538
But big shout out to all the bernie supporters who are clutching their pearls in shock about a campaign making a big deal out of a nothingburger when y'all've been accusing everything of being a vast media conspiracy against bernie since 2015, that's an iconic pivot if i've ever seen one lol
 

Poodlestrike

It's salt.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
Such a frustrating week as someone that would happily support both candidates and desperately hopes for a non-Pete/Biden victory.

Ugh, Bernie and Warren have had enough on their plate working together to push progressive policy against the moderate flank of the debate stages. Please dear god I hope they both just come together again and squash these terribly stupid fights, they're just so dumb and unnecessary.
Honestly, I really think there's a solid chance they have a "hug it out" moment on stage tonight.
You're confusing going on the defensive with mocking the stupidity of it all.
You can definitely do both at the same time, IME. If nobody felt threatened by this stuff, nobody would respond to it.
The insipidness of this whole thing... The fact that people are trying to make something out of what might be one of the most benign documents of its kind in history is mind-blowing.


Now there's a story that fizzled out with haste.
Ah, but don't you see Brazil, Memoghazi is deeply important and must be fought over because it proves a) Sanders is a vicious attack dog or b) Warren is an evil liar and we must tear each other to pieces over it!

And yeah the Pete thing was completely insane and I can't believe everybody just moved on from it, but I guess that's what happens when people stop expecting you to be good on racial issues: you get graded on the Republican scale.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,102
Memoghazi has been the dumbest drama of the entire primary and it's had more discussion than Pete's fake black endorsements thing.
a thing I think a lot about in regards to the primary is that when people feel like they don't have control over things in their life they often get much more strident about the things they do have control of, and frankly, nobody seems to have come up with a single working idea for how to disrupt the candidate with the twenty-point lead in the Democratic primary, who is also senile
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
let me give you a little more context here:

That's right, one of the strangest hires the DNC made. Was she hired by Debbie Wasserman Schultz?

You're confusing going on the defensive with mocking the stupidity of it all.
That's a defensive tactic.

If Warren and her supporters can’t handle a fairly benign citation of her actual demographics, and consider this an attack, then I really fear how she’d/they’d handle a race against Trump.
We expect this from Trump, not someone who was a close friend of Warren's who made a truce pact with her.

You're under the mistaken impression that people need to disprove terrible arguments. "____, prove me wrong" is just a meme. You're implying that no other candidate's script uses language like Bernie's because the media hasn't published any other candidate's script. It's nonsense.
That's how arguments work. I was asking point blank for evidence about this and was met with a shrug.

I knocked on doors for friends campaigns all last year and will be knocking for Bernie in the coming weeks.

So yeah I give a shit, I just hope I get to vote for a candidate who does as well.
But not enough to engage in political conversations here? When you say "I don't give a shit' about politics people will take that at face value.
 

xbhaskarx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,117
NorCal
Weird how she's got a close relationship with Bernie's staff and his wife, isn't it? Maybe he's not as progressive as we think.
Did Bernie ever say anything negative about Tulsi Gabbard when she was meeting with Steve Bannon days after the 2016 election and then based on his recommendation went to Trump Tower within two weeks of the election to meet personally with Trump on Bannon's recommendation, where she was reportedly on the short list for Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, and UN Ambassador?

As far as Gabbard's leftist credentials, she was a member of the centrist Problem Solvers Caucus until she joined the Progressive Caucus near the end of 2017 with zero fanfare (no press release or statement, journalists only figured out when by checking the changed list of members via the internet archives)...


Perhaps Bernie, who made Tad “worked with Paul Manafort for Yanukovych in Ukraine” Devine his chief strategist, and who wanted to make Tulsi “voted present on Trump impeachment” Gabbard the next DNC chair, isn't quite as infallible as his cult makes him out to be?



 
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pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,102
That's right, one of the strangest hires the DNC made. Was she hired by Debbie Wasserman Schultz?
technically the vote was unanimous, but, like, yes

the democrats wanted to push tulsi ahead in line because she was good looking, a military veteran, a person of color, and in a safe seat, so for those of you complaining about the DNC trying to promote their favored candidates for president, believe me, things could've been a LOT worse
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
technically the vote was unanimous, but, like, yes

the democrats wanted to push tulsi ahead in line because she was good looking, a military veteran, a person of color, and in a safe seat, so for those of you complaining about the DNC trying to promote their favored candidates for president, believe me, things could've been a LOT worse
Makes sense when Schultz is involved. She was terrible as a Florida Democrat and close friends with the Republicans there.
 

splash wave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
664
Bay Area, CA
We expect this from Trump, not someone who was a close friend of Warren's who made a truce pact with her.
.
What on earth are you talking about? Did your read the line in question? Please tell me what is offensive about it, specifically. Should people canvassing for Bernie be disallowed from making a case for their candidate over another? Do you think Warren supporters don’t rightfully have reasons why they prefer her over Bernie?

edit:

In Warren's case, they stated that the “people who support her are highly-educated, more affluent people who are going to show up and vote Democratic no matter what” and that “she's bringing no new bases into the Democratic Party.”
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,486
I wish just once people would realize just once that the primaries are over the opposite team is who you’re going to have to work with to get the shit you want.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Well I actually value my time, so thats why I dont usually engage on here.
Then why engage at all?

What on earth are you talking about? Did your read the line in question? Please tell me what is offensive about it, specifically. Should people canvassing for Bernie be disallowed from making a case for their candidate over another?
It was shade which broke the truce they had with each other. It was an attack I've seen Republicans use, framed in anti-intellectualism.

Do you think Warren supporters don’t rightfully have reasons why they prefer her over Bernie?
Sure, but I don't have any comparisons for her scripts and neither does anybody else.
 

Poodlestrike

It's salt.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
Then only one voice would be heard, setting the narrative.
I kinda feel like you're describing people getting defensive about possible bad narratives here, especially given the way it played out - there wasn't a uniform "eh it's nothing *shrug*" kind of response, people got vicious. Are still a little vicious. The thing for me is, the more harmful narrative is "the left eats itself again!" which is... what all the back-and-forth produced.
It was shade which broke the truce they had with each other. It was an attack I've seen Republicans use, framed in anti-intellectualism.
This is definitely overstating things lol.
 

SaintBowWow

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,689
Looking at the shit Republicans do and I just have to laugh at the supposed Sanders v. Warren “controversies” from the past few days. Releasing talking points about why you’re a better candidate than your opponent is a scandal now?
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,939
The Sanders camp had said those weren't signed off on and/ or were "unapproved."

The new information in the article is that those talking points were in fact issued.

So I guess it's possible that the camp isn't lying but also doesn't have any control over the talking points that it's putting out. Either scenario is very problematic and even moreso in light of how the Sanders/ Warren feud has shaken out.
Like you awkwardly concede here, that they were distributed doesn't necessarily mean they were approved. Doesn't have to be as extreme as "doesn't have any control over the talking points that it's putting out" either. Could be that Sanders and high level staff weren't as scrutinizing here and it burned them. I think at best it demonstrates sloppiness in their campaign if no one at a high level wanted this distributed as it was, yet it went out. At worst they always meant to issue these talking points which would be super weird since they would have at some point needed to answer for them and backtrack, so.... yeah this seems to be more likely a fuck-up than anything.

People trying to spin this as some 'Lyin' Bernie' thing, though.... seems even weaker than the hand-wringing over his health records.
 

thepotatoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,637
Denver
Part of the job is hiring people who you can delegate stuff like that to safely, I guess.

Again, this is a small thing. I don't even think it's a failure of the campaign so much as a failure of the supporters. Everybody was just looking for a reason to tear into each other, and this gave 'em an excuse.
Yeah, Bernie supporters shouldn’t have jumped on unconfirmed accounts of personal experience at a low level of the campaign. The defensiveness surrounding this election causes people to do dumb things sometimes.

But I think part of what makes this topic so contentious is the focus on an assumed ridiculous lie which would be bad if there wasn’t a much less ridiculous and inflammatory explanation of it actually being a mistake.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,586
I mean, not just the media. You could go into any political thread on this very forum and find Warren and Bernie supporters spoiling for a fight.
I mean maybe I'm just a bitter Bernie fan (I'm not), but it doesn't even seems like an equal thing. The word cult keeps being thrown around like that a normal way to talk about fellow posters.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Looking at the shit Republicans do and I just have to laugh at the supposed Sanders v. Warren “controversies” from the past few days. Releasing talking points about why you’re a better candidate than your opponent is a scandal now?
It is when it breaks a truce with another campaign.

This is definitely overstating things lol.
True, but that's what it reminded me of.

Like you awkwardly concede here, that they were distributed doesn't necessarily mean they were approved. Doesn't have to be as extreme as "doesn't have any control over the talking points that it's putting out" either. Could be that Sanders and high level staff weren't as scrutinizing here and it burned them. I think at best it demonstrates sloppiness in their campaign if no one at a high level wanted this distributed as it was, yet it went out. At worst they always meant to issue these talking points which would be super weird since they would have at some point needed to answer for them and backtrack, so.... yeah this seems to be more likely a fuck-up than anything.

People trying to spin this as some 'Lyin' Bernie' thing, though.... seems even weaker than the hand-wringing over his health records.
The script was the first half of the scandal, the rest was how Bernie and his campaign reacted. Both made the attack more controversial then it otherwise would be, put it in circumstances where Bernie is on thin ice with trust with Warren's staff and it's a powder keg ready to blow.
 

splash wave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
664
Bay Area, CA
It was shade which broke the truce they had with each other. It was an attack I've seen Republicans use, framed in anti-intellectualism.
It’s not an attack, nor is it even a critique of her personally. There is nothing “anti-intellectual” about it, only that her base is limited. It’s completely factual.

I’m really concerned that you or anyone would take this as offensive. Warren’s campaign is probably in shambles, also, if those canvassing on her behalf don’t also draw distinctions between her and Bernie.
 

Bramblebutt

Member
Jan 11, 2018
1,623
How about this. She's actually my Senator in the state I live in, someone I've followed for years since I was able to first vote, which was in her first election in the Senate back in 2012. I've followed her achievements, votes, and views for years (obviously more so in the recent years given her re-election in 2018 and the 2020 race), and I've read up on her achievements with CFPB which is one of the most important consumer protection organizations and concepts that has been developed and was basically her brain child.

While I am a Warren fan, and I have reservations about her political instincts, the idea that I'm somehow not as aware of how "liberal" she is or "left leaning" because people who don't even live in the state she represents listen to other people who spew right wing bullshit because their "man" is the "only way" and by default is the "only solution" to everything is fucking beyond annoying.

It's why I don't particularly care for what a lot of "leftists" say when they call Warren a "republican" when she's literally one of the most left leaning representatives in government, representing one of the most left leaning states in the country. The entire concept of being a "progressive" is changing over time. Who she was is clearly not what she believes now considering her crowning achievement is one of the most important consumer protection agencies that oversees the financial sector, said agency the GOP fucking hates and Trump has been attempting to dismantle since he took office.

The fact is, "the left" really did like Warren for years. And while my exposure to leftist wasn't really a thing back before 2015, I never did hear much in terms of leftists shitting on Warren. It's only post "no endorsement" that this started, and only now that Sanders and Warren are opponents that the "well actually she's not really that left leaning and she's just status quo" shit people starting parroting like it's a pamphlet read.

I'm sure there are people here who are from MA who disagree with my readings. I'm fine with that, but I'm really tired of being lectured that Sanders is some sacred King when the reality is he's a 30 year career politician who's current rise to fame in 2020 has been promoting 100 trillion in spending with nobody giving him one bit of kickback for the simple fact there is no fucking reality in the multiverse where his agenda will see such a budget.
I mean no offense, but your appraisal of the comparative degree of leftism between a self-identified capitalist and a self-identified demsoc is not very useful coming from someone who has no interest in reading socialist theory.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
10,675
I mean no offense, but your appraisal of the comparative degree of leftism between a self-identified capitalist and a self-identified demsoc is not very useful coming from someone who has no interest in reading socialist theory.
It's almost like you don't need to read socialist theory to see how liberal and left leaning a US politician is.
 

Alcotholic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,777
It would be great if no one lied, but this is how campaigns are, unfortunately. Doesn't mean I don't disapprove, I just feel a little apathetic around this because Trump lies all the fucking time and it means nothing.