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Deleted member 3812

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Politico has published this article arguing that the "most compelling stars" of the Democratic Party are socialists: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/04/17/democrats-your-stars-are-socialists-226661

Speaker Nancy Pelosi, miraculously transformed over the past few months into a relatively moderate Democratic elder stateswoman, has understandably been pushing back against the notion that she leads a socialist party defined by a few radicals in the House.

On 60 Minutes, she stalwartly declared: "I do reject socialism as a economic system. If people have that view, that's their view. That is not the view of the Democratic Party." She dismissed the left-wing members in her caucus as, "like, five people."

In a speech at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee conference, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer expressed the same sentiment, telling the crowd that there are 62 Democratic freshmen, "not three."

In sheer numbers, this is true. But it's the wrong way to count.

The problem Democrats have is that the most compelling stars of the party are self-described socialists with a knack for generating controversy and media attention, and with committed mass followings. Pelosi might wish it weren't true, but poll numbers, fundraising and follower-counts don't lie.

Sanders is reliably second—sometimes first—in national and state presidential polling of Democratic candidates. He's out-raised everyone in the field, and with his massive small-donor base, probably can continue to do so for the duration. More than anyone else, he has defined the Democratic Party's current agenda. He can clap back at establishment critics, as he did the other day at the Center for American Progress, and make their lives very uncomfortable.

It'll be much harder to maintain that the Democratic Party isn't a party of socialists if it nominates one as its presidential candidate, which everyone paying attention realizes is a real possibility.

If that happens, it won't be the work of conservatives hoping to negatively brand the Democrats, but of the party faithful. The same goes for the prominence of Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. It is often said that conservatives are "obsessed" with her; maybe so, but the same is true—and probably more so—of everyone else.

AOC has been on the cover of Time magazine, Rolling Stone (with Pelosi, as it happens), the Hollywood Reporter, and Bloomberg Businessweek. Annie Leibovitz photographed her for Vogue. She's been interviewed on "60 Minutes."

She has nearly 4 million Twitter followers and more than 3 million followers on Instagram, where she feeds the insatiable obsession of her fans—not her critics—with videos from her apartment.

There is a documentary about her congressional campaign, purchased by Netflix for a record-breaking $10 million. She's the hero of a comic book (or as an admiring website put it, "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is so badass there's literally now a comic book about her"). A video narrated by her and set in the future about how she saves the planet with her "Green New Deal" quickly garnered more than 1.7 million views.

She was among the top 10 House Democrats in fundraising the first quarter of the year and had the highest percentage of small donors. Her ally, Rep. Ilhan Omar also excelled.

As Senator Elizabeth Warren wrote in a piece about AOC for her in Time's most influential list, not exaggerating, "millions are taking cues from her."

It's obviously vexing to Pelosi to see a House majority built by the careful avoidance of ideological extravagance and won in marginal districts hijacked, at least in terms of public attention, by a few freshmen and a 77-year-old Vermont socialist.

They might not define the center of gravity of the party at the moment, and the radical freshmen have lost most of their tussles with Pelosi, but there is a reason that they are so famous, with such fundraising prowess.
 

Madison

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,388
Lima, Peru
*sigh*

No
Demoratic
Politician
Is
A
Socialist

Google "political compass" ffs. The ideas the most radical democrats share are basically center-left. Not even left winged!
 

Big Baybee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,780
Don't have a problem with this at all. But I'm also not going to demonize dems who aren't there yet. It's a process that's off to a solid start.

I also agree with the poster who says no democrats are Socialists.
 

TeenageFBI

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,239
They said the same shit about the New Deal in the 30s, and we could absolutely use something like that right now.
 

tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,235
Americans don't actually know what socialism is.

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires" = "American Dream".

But people are starting to see through the "American Dream" con and demanding more. I'm not sure if the US is ready by 2020 but the push back is starting to become impressive.

This coming from someone that isn't a fan of America.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 3812

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So, if socialism is different from democratic socialism, what are the differences and similarities to the two?
 

psynergyadept

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,623
"Socailism" has become a boogie-man term used by right that if somehow the dems campaigning for any social safety net that our country is going to fall into despair.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,587
if politico were a person telling me this I would kick them in the balls in response
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
I predict this thread going well.
No potential for a shit show whatsoever.

As it pertains to the article. I agree. Neoliberal capitalism is a house of cards that's only going to get more unstable as corporate greed squeezes every last bit of blood out and as the environment gets worse.

It's time to try some different ideas. People are tired of feeling more and more desperate and the leadership continuing to say "nothing to see here".

But like others have said, the article REALLY should make the distinction between socialist and social dem/dem socialist.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
Lol most of the adult Europeans in this thread are laughing at the idea that socialist ideas are in conflict with capitalism - or that the term has been co-opted and literally marketed in America by honest actors.


Like how Hillary Clinton leads a murder club from a basement in a pizza restaurant.


If you want to say "communist" go ahead and say communist. We have a First Amendment that on its surface encourages honest robust debate. We had a fantastic test in the 20th century for what happens if you start calling everyone a communist. "Socialist" is how they reset their desired semantics, not what they were actually talking about or what it actually is.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,918
Our President is a reality TV show star...American politics is worthy of a syndication on Bravo to be honest.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
This emerging pattern of people deliberately trolling with bad right-wing articles is ridiculous.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,010
For fucks sake OP, this isn't 'Politico: ' it's Rich Lowry writing an oped in politico. Learn how to fucking cite, it's not hard

Rich Lowry is a prominent conservative editorialist most famous for writing in the Neoconservative periodical The National Review.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
So, if socialism is different from democratic socialism, what are the differences and similarities to the two?

Socialism is about workers controlling the means of production and nothing less. Any system where the means of production are still privately owned and not controlled by the workers is not socialism, by definition.

AOC and Bernie have kind of sort of hinted at moving in that direction by talking about worker co-ops, and Bernie used to be a rather explicit fan of Eugene Debs, but the policies that both of them focus on are predominantly social democratic (welfare state capitalism) which they are referring to as democratic socialism. This is because the actual definition of "democratic socialism" is to try to achieve socialism through a parliamentary democratic rather than revolutionary process, so presumably they're laying the groundwork.

Lol most of the adult Europeans in this thread are laughing at the idea that socialist ideas are in conflict with capitalism

They are.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,142
Gentrified Brooklyn
While always a dash right leaning, this election cycle has effectively turned Politico into the National Enquirer, gossip and all. Its bizarre to see. Even though this is an op ed, its in the tone of much of the site (note i said tone, not politics)
 

Deleted member 7130

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Oct 25, 2017
7,685
Oh no what a nightmare whatever shall we do?

Guess I'll go vote for fascism now. Heaven forbid I vote for genuine leftists.
 

gaugebozo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,832
This is clearly a case of a conservative trying to paint Democrats as Stalin reborn, and Pelosi trying to go for the most votes. That doesn't mean she's not going to push progressive legislation if it has a chance of passing. She got through a public healthcare option last time she was speaker.
 

Deleted member 22490

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Oct 28, 2017
9,237
Lol most of the adult Europeans in this thread are laughing at the idea that socialist ideas are in conflict with capitalism - or that the term has been co-opted and literally marketed in America by honest actors.


Like how Hillary Clinton leads a murder club from a basement in a pizza restaurant.


If you want to say "communist" go ahead and say communist. We have a First Amendment that on its surface encourages honest robust debate. We had a fantastic test in the 20th century for what happens if you start calling everyone a communist. "Socialist" is how they reset their desired semantics, not what they were actually talking about or what it actually is.
This post is awful in both senses of the word.
 

Deleted member 22490

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Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
Sphagnum explained it earlier

You're literally just dropping what I assume you think are authoritative sentences and they're not even your own? Even if I were glib enough to just dump the definition of the term, it not only begs a lot more questions, it doesn't even bother with the specific international context I was solely discussing in my repsonse. And you're not even responding to my post, you're jumping to your preferred isolated definition of the word to highlight whatever it is you're never, ever, ever bothering to illuminate or argue. And there's plenty here to define or highlight for all us poor unilluminated maroons.




In order to avoid this paint-corner - don't respond to that, and lets ignore the idea that social ownership is one of the intents of a PLC and an LLC, respond to what you know full well I said: Americans think socialism is McCarthy's definition of communism - a godless non-negotiable affront to capitalism.
 

SaveWeyard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,540
You're literally just dropping what I assume you think are authoritative sentences and they're not even your own? Even if I were glib enough to just dump the definition of the term, it not only begs a lot more questions, it doesn't even bother with the specific international context I was solely discussing in my repsonse. And you're not even responding to my post, you're jumping to your preferred isolated definition of the word to highlight whatever it is you're never, ever, ever bothering to illuminate or argue. And there's plenty here to define or highlight for all us poor unilluminated maroons.





In order to avoid this paint-corner - don't respond to that, and lets ignore the idea that social ownership is one of the intents of a PLC and an LLC, respond to what you know full well I said: Americans think socialism is McCarthy's definition of communism - a godless non-negotiable affront to capitalism.
Some of your post is a little rambling, so its hard to parse exactly what you're saying, but socialism and capitalism fundamentally cannot co-exist. This doesn't mean there can't be varieties of socialism or differing opinions about how to achieve it, as defining it as worker control of the means of production still leaves a lot of wiggle room.

Anyway, American perceptions of "socialism" have certainly changed since the time of McCarthy. https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/243362/meaning-socialism-americans-today.aspx