[Poll] When do you foresee gender norms becoming a thing of the past?

[Mondy]

The nature of humanity itself is likely to change sooner, such as the inevitable symbiosis between humans and technology. Cyberpunk may appear fantastical and fictitious at face value but that is closer to our real future than people are willing to give it credit for. Gender norms will still be present, but very, VERY different to how it is today.

 

[StraySheep]

Not sure how someone could have an opinion between 500 years from now and over 1000 years from now.

 

[brainchild]

I would imagine that every producer of a multimillion dollar show on a major network would care about demographics.

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That doesn't change the fact that it still sucks that we can't get that kind of content. I already know why they don't do it, but it doesn't make me feel better about it.

I don't think you'll ever get rid of them entirely. They'll hopefully continue to soften over time, but culture is near impossible to stamp out. And over the huge timeline it would take to actually significantly change them, new norms would inevitably arise that would put you right back where you started.

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I'd say if you projected the direction of civilization over the last few hundreds of years into the future, almost everyone today would be shocked to see 500+ years from now.

To us, I believe, it would seem almost all societal gender norms are 'flatted'. If you lived in that society you'd still see them, but they wouldn't be disruptive on any kind of regular basis as they have been historically.

I'm not certain society will continue to progress as it has for hundreds of years, we may be due for a cycling, but it's quite possible that things will continue to progress.

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So in other words...

Sorry to be bleak but I honestly don't think humanity will last long enough for this to become a reality. We have 100-200 years at best.

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:(

The nature of humanity itself is likely to change sooner, such as the inevitable symbiosis between humans and technology. Cyberpunk may appear fantastical and fictitious at face value but that is closer to our real future than people are willing to give it credit for. Gender norms will still be present, but very, VERY different to how it is today.

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Transhumanism is probably one of the most realistic sci-fi tropes of our current time. It will happen. No doubts about it.

Not sure how someone could have an opinion between 500 years from now and over 1000 years from now.

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It's just an option for those who feel like it's not going to happen any time soon. Like, not until the very distant future. I would've put 10,000 years in there too but there weren't enough polling options.

 

[Platy]

If you look at the history of any social movement, shit goes faster and faster and faster each decade so it might come soon before we know it

The distance between each rights winnings for minorities have decreasing more and more as society progresses. It took MORE THAN A CENTURY so that all USA states forbid slavery. It took less than 10 years for every state to allow gay marriage. It might be because the proportion of the changes are smaller now, it might be because society is evolving faster now thanks to being connected to everyone worldwide, but the truth is that we are accelerating without a stop for minority rights around the globe. Hell even insanely religious muslims theocracies are starting to allow women to drive and very religious south american countries are allowing abortions.

My mom was born in the exact year that USA allowed interracial couples to marry and look where we are now!
Sure it is far from perfect but we had lots of important milestones

100 years might be too soon since assholes becomes assholeish when they see that we are reaching there ("night is darker before the dawn" types of stuff), but it would be way less than 500 for the clarification in the op. Like 2 or 3 generations

Getting rid of gender norms doesn't mean getting rid of gender. Femininity and Masculinity don't have to disappear in order for society to accept that men can be feminine and women can be masculine and that it isn't anything worth raising concern over.

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[bubbles]

What you are asking for is extremely silly. You effectively are asking to remove the social stigma of a boy engaging in what are viewed as girl activities and vice versa. Which is fine and can and will almost certainly happen in due time. Less than a century ago in the west, pink was for baby boys and blue for girls until Hallmark effectively changed that, if I do remember correctly.

The reason why it's silly however is that gender stereotypes will always exist. Even if you get to the point where men can comfortably wear makeup and dresses, women will have created or evolved new gender stereotypes that exclude men, for example. In these discussions, I feel people often discount the role that biology plays in shaping society. They make the mistake of thinking that gender roles and norms are the result of society, when it is more the opposite – that society and culture are the result of gender roles and norms.

I feel what you are really asking for is the ability to 'go against the grain' of society and culture without being judged negatively. However, I do not feel this will ever be possible. Judging people, things and situations is at the very core of our nature as people. I do this, you do this. We all do this. It is very unrealistic to expect to go against the grain and not be seen as 'weird' or 'abnormal'.

 

[lunarworks]

The pendulum swings back and forth. You'll have progress away from them, and then a conservative backlash back towards them.

 

[brainchild]

What you are asking for is extremely silly. You effectively are asking to remove the social stigma of a boy engaging in what are viewed as girl activities and vice versa. Which is fine and can and will almost certainly happen in due time. Less than a century ago in the west, pink was for baby boys and blue for girls until Hallmark effectively changed that, if I do remember correctly.

The reason why it's silly however is that gender stereotypes will always exist. Even if you get to the point where men can comfortably wear makeup and dresses, women will have created or evolved new gender stereotypes that exclude men, for example. In these discussions, I feel people often discount the role that biology plays in shaping society. They make the mistake of thinking that gender roles and norms are the result of society, when it is more the opposite – that society and culture are the result of gender roles and norms.

I feel what you are really asking for is the ability to 'go against the grain' of society and culture without being judged negatively. However, I do not feel this will ever be possible. Judging people, things and situations is at the very core of our nature as people. I do this, you do this. We all do this. It is very unrealistic to expect to go against the grain and not be seen as 'weird' or 'abnormal'.

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I think what you're severally underestimating is the impact of how highly sentient human beings are. We've literally deliberately changed the course of evolution through artificial selection--something that no other known species has been able to do--and create our own realities and will continue to do so through transhumanism.

The entire concept of society and gender at some point will likely be radically different from today, and with a new wave of individuation, gender expression could potentially take on an infinite amount of variations.

This may all seem very silly to you if you think of society as the structure that we have today, but I do not foresee that always being the case.

 

[bubbles]

I think what you're severally underestimating is the impact of how highly sentient human beings are. We've literally deliberately changed the course of evolution through artificial selection--something that no other known species has been able to do--and create our own realities and will continue to do so through transhumanism.

The entire concept of society and gender at some point will likely be radically different from today, and with a new wave of individuation, gender expression could potentially take on an infinite amount of variations.

This may all seem very silly to you if you think of society as the structure that we have today, but I do not foresee that always being the case.

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There is a strong case to be made that you are underestimating the role which biology and fundamental human psychology plays. You are also basing your assumptions on a far off future that isn't likely to come true for some time, if ever, given how little we still understand about how the brain works or consciousness.

I feel you are advocating more for a world in which we blend the 'fantasy' online realm with the 'reality' of the physical word. Anybody can be anything they want. There is some merit to this and it is an interesting line of thinking, but it still does nothing to disconnect the role biology plays in determining/influencing gender and gender roles.

You say this:

We've literally deliberately changed the course of evolution through artificial selection--something that no other known species has been able to do--and create our own realities and will continue to do so through transhumanism.

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But you have no idea what that will look like. What happens when you disconnect a human being from their biology? Nobody has a clue, but there is no reason to think it will be a good thing. It is far easier to see how doing such as this may give rise to nightmare scenarios.

 

[brainchild]

There is a strong case to be made that you are underestimating the role which biology and fundamental human psychology plays. You are also basing your assumptions on a far off future that isn't likely to come true for some time, if ever, given how little we still understand about how the brain works or consciousness.

I feel you are advocating more for a world in which we blend the 'fantasy' online realm with the 'reality' of the physical word. Anybody can be anything they want. There is some merit to this and it is an interesting line of thinking, but it still does nothing to disconnect the role biology plays in determining/influencing gender and gender roles.

You say this:

But you have no idea what that will look like. What happens when you disconnect a human being from their biology? Nobody has a clue, but there is no reason to think it will be a good thing. It is far easier to see how doing such as this may give rise to nightmare scenarios.

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It's not about disconnecting completely from biology, it's about being in control of it, which we are already doing right now, to an extent, with CRISPR technology, and that's just the start.

But that's besides the point. Unlike nearly every other known species, we are not a slave to all of our biological impulses, even without direct of control it. As an example from the Rhesus monkey study posted earlier in this thread, while there are striking similarities between monkeys and humans when it comes the hormonal influences of gender norms, there's also a marked difference in humans and the power of ideation, where conscious thought can override impulsive behavior, resulting in inconsistent results in human behavior compared to our primal cousins. It's one of the reasons why humans aren't considered to have instincts in the same way that other animals are.

My predictions are based on the cognitive building blocks that we already have today. Of course, I don't know exactly what that will look like in the distant future, but the same can be said about any prediction we make that far out.

This could very well turn out to be a nightmarish scenario, I'm definitely willing to accept that alternative, but one thing that has been a constant with homo sapiens throughout our entire history is that we continue to build on prior knowledge to create a more artificial reality for ourselves, and I see no reason why that should change in the future. And of course this would affect gender and gender norms, as biology's influence on them would be meaningless if we had no means of conceptualizing them, and if the means to conceptualize gender norms (or any social norms) changes/advances, then it stands to reason that those social constructs would change/advance as well.