Polygon: Anti-loot box bill gathers bipartisan support in Senate

[Sectorseven]

https://www.polygon.com/2019/5/23/1...nate-josh-hawley-ed-markey-richard-blumenthal

Two Democratic senators now support a bill to ban the sale of loot boxes to children, giving the measure bipartisan support after Sen. Josh Hawley (R-MO) proposed it two weeks ago.


Under the Protecting Children from Abusive Games Act, video games that are marketed to children would be prohibited from implementing any pay-to-win mechanisms. All games would be forbidden from selling loot boxes to children. In statements yesterday, Sens. Richard Blumenthal (D-CT) and Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA) endorsed Hawley's bill.


"Congress must send a clear warning to app developers and tech companies: Children are not cash cows to exploit for profit," Blumenthal said.

Under Hawley's bill, a publisher or developer would face fines for including these features in children's games, or allowing kids under 18 to use them in any game. Hawley has said his bill will reference COPPA in determining whether a game is aimed at children, but that may be harder than it sounds as the law seems to take that on a case-by-case basis, expecting operators to self-enforce most of its provisions.

 

[bluexy]

This is a nightmare. Can't wait to see video games' first amendment protections once again put before the Supreme Court.

Y'all know, these people could very easily alter the definitions of legal and illegal gambling with regards to modern digital changes. They aren't. They're targeting video game first amendment protections specifically. What is and isn't video game content. How that content affects children. This has nothing to do with loot boxes. These people don't even know what loot boxes really are.

 

[Bear]

They're going to come out with some much broader legislation that really screws up this industry, just watch.

 

[collige]

So when are we actually going to see this dumb bill?

 

[Deleted member 176]

This is a nightmare. Can't wait to see video games' first amendment protections once again put before the Supreme Court.

Y'all know, these people could very easily alter the definitions of legal and illegal gambling with regards to modern digital changes. They aren't. They're targeting video game first amendment protections specifically. What is and isn't video game content. How that content affects children. This has nothing to do with loot boxes. These people don't even know what loot boxes really are.

Click to shrink...

ESA really fucked up by not getting it under control earlier huh

 

[¡ B 0 0 P !]

EA flew too close to the sun and now the whole industry is fucked. lol

 

[Pancracio17]

This is a nightmare. Can't wait to see video games' first amendment protections once again put before the Supreme Court.

Y'all know, these people could very easily alter the definitions of legal and illegal gambling with regards to modern digital changes. They aren't. They're targeting video game first amendment protections specifically. What is and isn't video game content. How that content affects children. This has nothing to do with loot boxes. These people don't even know what loot boxes really are.

Click to shrink...

I would say this is good news, but youre right. I dont trust these people at all to judge games fairly, they still pull the "videogames cause violence" card every once in a while too.

 

[WarMacheen]

They're going to come out with some much broader legislation that really screws up this industry, just watch.

Click to shrink...

Then the industry should have regulated itself, instead of bullshit, this isn't gambling half measures. Congress will surely heavy hand it, but it's not like publishers and developers are doing anything to curb the issue

 

[KoolAid]

I doubt this will actually pass, but this will definitely be a wake up call for game devs.

 

[¡ B 0 0 P !]

Then the industry should have regulated itself, instead of bullshit, this isn't gambling half measures

Click to shrink...

Yep if they refused to regulate microtransactions they should not cry when governments intervene.

 

[BassForever]

This is gonna put whales on the endangered species list

 

[Pancracio17]

I doubt this will actually pass, but this will definitely be a wake up call for game devs.

Click to shrink...

Outside of mobile and sports, theyve already had it with Battlefront 2. If you noticed, no EA game since then (outside of sports) has had lootboxes.

 

[Honome]

Well... Time to sell my EA stocks... quickly!!!!

 

[jviggy43]

This is a nightmare. Can't wait to see video games' first amendment protections once again put before the Supreme Court.

Y'all know, these people could very easily alter the definitions of legal and illegal gambling with regards to modern digital changes. They aren't. They're targeting video game first amendment protections specifically. What is and isn't video game content. How that content affects children. This has nothing to do with loot boxes. These people don't even know what loot boxes really are.

Click to shrink...

The industry only has itself to blame. If it didnt want to be regulated by parties that didnt have an understanding of the industry, it knew it had to regulate it itself. Which is why the ESRB was created. It didn't because they loved how much money they were making so now they get to start having the government step in and do something about it, potentially with overreaching side effects. Many of us were calling for them to take this more seriously and were shut down for it. Enjoy the fallout of the lootbox everyone.

Yep if they refused to regulate microtransactions they should not cry when governments intervene.

Click to shrink...

Exactly

 

[funky]

Any game with micro transaction loot being a automatic M rating sounds good to me.

But I ezoext any Gov regulation to be worse then that.

But the industry has really fucked up. But They have no one else to blame but themselves
And EA. Man. So many people in studios around the world must have really been pissed at EA huh.

 

[Kcannon]

They're going to come out with some much broader legislation that really screws up this industry, just watch.

Click to shrink...

The industry only has itself to blame, though.

We've been talking for ages that if the industry didn't self-regulate, government would do it, for better or worse.

 

[Deleted member 18944]

This is a nightmare. Can't wait to see video games' first amendment protections once again put before the Supreme Court.

Y'all know, these people could very easily alter the definitions of legal and illegal gambling with regards to modern digital changes. They aren't. They're targeting video game first amendment protections specifically. What is and isn't video game content. How that content affects children. This has nothing to do with loot boxes. These people don't even know what loot boxes really are.

Click to shrink...

Loot boxes are a form of protected speech???????????

 

[collige]

The industry only has itself to blame. If it didnt want to be regulated by parties that didnt have an understanding of the industry, it knew it had to regulate it itself. Which is why the ESRB was created.

Click to shrink...

Except that it didn't since the SCOTUS ruled that game ratings can't be enforced by the government anyway. A world without the ESRB would be worse for consumers, but it also wouldn't invite gov't intervention.

Loot boxes are a form of protected speech???????????

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I fully expect that'll be an argument. I don't think it's completely meritless either since games kind of occupy a weird space by being both protected speech and functioning consumer product at the same time.

 

[Deleted member 32374]

I'm kind of ok with this... Its never been explained to me explicitly how the loot box systems are distinctly different than baseball cards with certain insert cards.....

 

[Deleted member 10551]

This is a nightmare. Can't wait to see video games' first amendment protections once again put before the Supreme Court.

Y'all know, these people could very easily alter the definitions of legal and illegal gambling with regards to modern digital changes. They aren't. They're targeting video game first amendment protections specifically. What is and isn't video game content. How that content affects children. This has nothing to do with loot boxes. These people don't even know what loot boxes really are.

Click to shrink...

This isn't a first amendment issue. They're not banning anything content-wise, just how you can sell the content.

 

[Deleted member 8593]

I can't help but feel some schadenfreude at ESA's arrogance but this has the potential to backfire on everyone in the gaming community, publishers and players alike.

 

[Village]

Damn EA fucked up the whole bag

 

[Sectorseven]

Any game with micro transaction loot being a automatic M rating sounds good to me.

But I ezoext any Gov regulation to be worse then that.

But the industry has really fucked up. But They have no one else to blame but themselves
And EA. Man. So many people in studios around the world must have really been pissed at EA huh.

Click to shrink...

A game with loot boxes would have to be rated AO, which has all sorts of repercussions, like most retailers refusing to stock it.

 

[jviggy43]

Except that it didn't since the SCOTUS ruled that game ratings can't be enforced by the government anyway. A world without the ESRB would be worse for consumers, but it also wouldn't invite gov't intervention.

Click to shrink...

Um that was my point. The ESRB was implemented so government intervention didn't step in.

 

[VariantX]

Then the industry should have regulated itself, instead of bullshit, this isn't gambling half measures. Congress will surely heavy hand it, but it's not like publishers and developers are doing anything to curb the issue

Click to shrink...

Exactly. Given they understand things a lot better than some guys in Washington about the industry and could have done it themselves, now its potentially out of their hands and they could have something in the works that's way more draconian than whats actually needed to bring the shit under control. Its their own fucking fault and they were told to get their shit together and they didnt do anything but try to provide cover for people doing these exploitative things. Its not like the Govt. came out of nowhere on this one.

 

[bluexy]

Loot boxes are a form of protected speech???????????

Click to shrink...

Absolutely. How you purchase and consume video games are part of their protections. The parallels between this bill and the law in California that eventually led to video games being granted first amendment protections are clear. The government targeted how children can purchase video game content. They made a law about it. It went to the Supreme Court.

Under current law, loot boxes are not considered gambling. If they were, they could be regulated as such. But they aren't. That's why this bill has nothing to do with gambling. That's why this bill is a "protect the children" attack on its first amendment protections.

 

[Razorrin]

I've been tired of the industry refusing to self regulate on a ton of stuff, and pay-to-win and loot boxes are one of them. When psychological conditioning starts getting involved, "Adult Choice" goes out like an excuse for industry nonsense.

I honestly think we need more info on what they are proposing in a bill to make an informed judgment, but I can't be too disappointed or surprised that it got as far as actual legislation. Bi-partisan, even. Though the "Bi-partisan" part should read "A few democrats didn't read anything concrete and are making the very easy statement of support for protecting children."

The republican pushing this has been interviewed by Jason Shreier and shown knowledge on the subject of this that points positively, but like many republican senators has also been public about his lack of care in imprisoning immigrant children.

I can't support this bill without anything to read, and NOBODY SHOULD. THEY CAN'T BE TRUSTED UNTIL THE BILL IS PUBLICLY AVAILABLE.

my stance on the issue is nothing compared to the amount of damage that something like this can do if left unchecked by the same people who wanted to cage up the internet. Lack of understanding will kill this industry and hurt millions of people.

 

[Kcannon]

I can't help but feel some schadenfreude at ESA's arrogance but this has the potential to backfire on everyone in the gaming community, publishers and players alike.

Click to shrink...

Of course it does, but the industry is really short-sighted overall.

 

[Bjones]

I hope this covers mobile " free but pay to unlock everything individually " kids games.
That's another level of evil there

 

[Cosmo Kramer]

Good, there has to be a limit and videogame companies will not set that limit.

 

[Qwark]

I can't help but feel some schadenfreude at ESA's arrogance but this has the potential to backfire on everyone in the gaming community, publishers and players alike.

Click to shrink...

This is where I'm at. On one hand, good, there's been some really scummy tactics used. On the other... this is going to have far reaching impacts that hurt more than just the guilty parties.

 

[collige]

Um that was my point. The ESRB was implemented so government intervention didn't step in.

Click to shrink...

Yes, but we also learned after the fact that there's no legal basis behind the threat of gov't intervention, so they didn't have to and the entire system could be scrapped today with no repercussions.

 

[¡ B 0 0 P !]

Loot boxes are a form of protected speech???????????

Click to shrink...

Lootboxes, battle passes, premium in-game currency, and over-priced skins are the pinnacles of freedom! It was what the American Revolution was all about! Anyone who disagrees is a commie.

 

[8byte]

This country is so absurdly ridiculous, hahahaha. There's no hope for the future here. Shut it all down.

 

[William_Herschel]

Lol, I knew this thread would be full of people defending loot boxes, didn't realize it would go the "can't trust the goberment" "free speech route." ResetEra's supposed progressiveness is on full display.

It's so insane to me how far we've come since Oblivion introduced overpriced horse cosmetics, to where we are today where people constantly defend loot boxes because it is supposedly necessary in order for game development to occur (despite the lack of evidence that this is actually true).

 

[Deleted member 48897]

I'm taking the opposite tack of some posters here -- I'm expecting the bill to be too toothless (or rely too much on self-enforcement) to be worth much of anything. The problem isn't being portrayed as "lootboxes are bad" or even "lootboxes are gambling" (which, honestly, probably would go a little too far considering how gambling laws work and lootboxes also aren't really worth anything) but it's just "don't sell lootboxes to children".

So expect a "click here to show you're over 18" box a la porn and beer sites, and literally nothing else to change.

See also: "get your parents' permission before calling" -- though premium-rate telephone numbers aren't at the levels of ubiquity they were back in the Reagan years

 

[Dyle]

Time for the ESA to start getting their shit together, the pithy statements they've given about the issue clearly aren't going to cut it from this point on. This never would have gotten this far if they had just looked inwards and taken a more conciliatory tone from the beginning when this became a relatively mainstream issue. The only way this becomes law is if they actively refuse to accept any responsibility and pledge to improve, which is the most basic act of humility yet is so uncommon in corporate culture.

 

[bluexy]

This isn't a first amendment issue. They're not banning anything content-wise, just how you can sell the content.

Click to shrink...

How you sell content is part of video games' first amendment protections. Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Ass'n (2011) was about a law passed in California that prohibited selling violent video games to minors and resulted in the Supreme Court granting video games first amendment protections. This is no different. It's about content being sold to children that the government believes harms children.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

President Trump must veto!

 

[Qwark]

I'm taking the opposite tack of some posters here -- I'm expecting the bill to be too toothless (or rely too much on self-enforcement) to be worth much of anything. The problem isn't being portrayed as "lootboxes are bad" or even "lootboxes are gambling" (which, honestly, probably would go a little too far considering how gambling laws work and lootboxes also aren't really worth anything) but it's just "don't sell lootboxes to children".

So expect a "click here to show you're over 18" box a la porn and beer sites, and literally nothing else to change.

See also: "get your parents' permission before calling" -- though premium-rate telephone numbers aren't at the levels of ubiquity they were back in the Reagan years

Click to shrink...

Ah yes, the "Please get parent's approval before creating a Neopets account" approach. I could definitely see this as well.

 

[floatingcoffins]

I blame horse armor and everyone who bought it.

 

[Kirblar]

This isn't a first amendment issue. They're not banning anything content-wise, just how you can sell the content.

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Literally any form of marketing outside of ads on pornhub can fall under "marketing to children".

 

[Y2Kev]

Ban live service
Ban anime
Ban marvel

 

[Kanann]

Prepare to laugh at those who defense lootboxes and MTX practices if this bill bare fruit.

Yes, we are suffer together, but it's worth a lulz.

 

[Yunyo]

The moment you sold these gambling ideas to kids, you opened up the can of worms. And now they're going to receive their judgment.

I'm sure PR has been working overtime to make these pubs out to be the persecuted ones, and judging by this thread, it's working.

 

[Bedlam]

Good.

I fully support this. If this industry has proven one thing it is its unwillingness to regulate itself.

Please go ahead, politicians.

 

[Smokey_Run]

Thanks EA.

If you think Republicans stop at lootboxes, you're fucking crazy. If they get this through Congress, wait until the next mass shooting and the Republicans need to score political points without touching gun control. Violent video games will be next and the Supreme Court has a different make-up now.

 

[ValKiryuSonicEX]

well, the industry only has itself to blame for not doing anything about the issue, if anything comes from this (and I hoping it does affect loot boxes) it will be their fault...but then they'll probably move on to another scummy tactic and the cycle will inevitably continue.

 

[Edward]

I doubt it will but if it did, say we live in a world that it did would this effect card games? Like MTGA, Hearthstone, ESL etc? digital that is.

 

[jviggy43]

Yes, but we also learned after the fact that there's no legal basis behind the threat of gov't intervention, so they didn't have to and the entire system could be scrapped today with no repercussions.

Click to shrink...

Almost unanimously everyone in the industry will tell you that had the ESRB not been created the government absolutely would have come in and done something about it. Saying that after the fact they didn't is besides the point because they didnt need to come in when they had an agency created to do it for them, which quelled the ongoing concerns pushing them to do something.