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Jun 23, 2018
774
Canada
Surprising that this is being framed as a negative thing. Nothing of much value will be lost by banning these kinds of predatory practices. Sure maybe it can turn into an overreach situation, and I already see people here envisioning slippery slopes, but people will fight back against that. I'd rather companies that want to succeed be forced to design a compelling game that's worth the price of entry than to create a barren, repetitive experience, and then try to cash in by making it into a shallow gambling fest. It's on the industry for not regulating itself but it's also a little bit on consumers for playing these games as if they're actually worth anyone's time. People will boycott a razor company for saying "don't be a dick", but some things don't get that many boycotts. And I expect game prices to rise as time goes on. It's not the end of the world. Prices of EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD rise as time goes on. However, they do need to cap a bit at some point when the reality is I can have just as much fun playing a Mega Drive game as I can playing a current-gen release. And current gen games are getting more and more samey so there's really not that much incentive to buy many of them, except from Nintendo and indie devs. Maybe that should be a revelation for companies to put some variety into their resumes.

If development is too expensive and costs need to be recouped? Boo hoo, then stop obsessing over graphical advancements and realism and make something actually interesting instead that costs less money to produce. You'll lose a few graphics whores along the way but the industry will be in a better place for it. It's not tiny indie companies making the majority of lootboxes because they can't afford to produce, it's big ones being greedy and building boring games while relying on psychological manipulation to make $$$. These companies aren't starving artists, so I'm not really gonna feel bad for them if they're not constantly raking in dough. Plenty of games don't require this nonsense to be successful and make money, even big name games with long development cycles. Game development costs really don't need to be on an unsustainably upward curve forever, considering the success of indies. That's entirely the choice of companies making games being too competitive and pursuing the wrong paths. Can we just stop at HD or 4K or whatever it is and just chill for awhile? Games look and play just fine as they are now. I'd rather developers focus on churning out more games with more variety than making every game bigger than the last in some way while trying to appeal to a common denominator.
 

OG_Thrills

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,655
Better get ready for £70 games then.

I'd rather pay upfront than run into any mechanism that requires my paypal. It's bring immersion to a screeching halt for me, personally. I tend to avoid any game that has this mechanic or anything similar to it.

I remember a few conversations on era about the last AC. They had the XP booster that was "optional." But if you chose not to purchase the XP booster you had an added grind. The game looked incredible but for me became a non factor.

I'm hopeful but I know American politics and governers/senators have an ironic history of pay to play.
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
2,591
Surprising that this is being framed as a negative thing. Nothing of much value will be lost by banning these kinds of predatory practices.

Not only will nothing be lost, but games will be better. They will no longer be designed to be bad on purpose to force people to pay money to make them good.

No more grind mechanics. Cooldowns. Crappy normal items/skins so that you pay for the loot boxes etc.

I don't understand how any consumer could possibly have an issue with banning a predatory practice that likely ruins many people's lives and makes games actively worse.

But you know, MUH FREEDUMB.

Pretty much every for-profit industry in history has shown it cannot be trusted to self regulate - because guess what when your number one and only priority is profit at all costs you end up making some pretty horrible moral decisions. Which is why you had tobacco industries suppressing the research showing smoking caused lung cancer, or big oil/coal suppressing climate change research etc. I'm sure ruining the planet and the millions of people dead from lung cancer are a price worth paying for some ridiculous illogical fear of oversight.

Self regulation does not work, because there is an obvious and inherent conflict of interest.
 
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ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,544
Better get ready for £70 games then.

This is a really flawed argument for multiple reasons

1.The most popular game in the world is F2P with no lootboxes and no P2W mechanics
2.Games are more likely to go F2P than they are to raise in price, the extra $10 they can get from a $70 price tag is pennies compared to the uncapped spending that MTX provide, it's inconsequential in the grand scheme of games like Fifa and Fortnite.
3.Nobody is forcing these publishers to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a single video game, so i don't have much sympathy for the inflated budget argument.
4.I would happily pay an extra $10 to not have a game built with compromised progression/loot systems that are built from the ground up to exploit rather than to entertain.
 

Dashful

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,399
Canada
This is a really flawed argument for multiple reasons

1.The most popular game in the world is F2P with no lootboxes and no P2W mechanics
2.Games are more likely to go F2P than they are to raise in price, the extra $10 they can get from a $70 price tag is pennies compared to the uncapped spending that MTX provide, it's inconsequential in the grand scheme of games like Fifa and Fortnite.
3.Nobody is forcing these publishers to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a single video game, so i don't have much sympathy for the inflated budget argument.
4.I would happily pay an extra $10 to not have a game built with compromised progression/loot systems that are built from the ground up to exploit rather than to entertain.
But the argument is that no gun is pointed at people to buy lootbox, because that gun is pointed at publishers to make the most money.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,544
But the argument is that no gun is pointed at people to buy lootbox, because that gun is pointed at publishers to make the most money.

Yes, this is a big issue that companies are legally obligated to grow and make as much money as they possibly can, but lootboxes also open them up to legislation like this, which would be pretty catastrophic if it were to pass as is.

Short term growth shouldn't be prioritized over long term viability.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
And where exactly do you think the need for that model comes from? Maybe from the pressure of having to sell 5-6 million copies just to break even?

Considering many of the paid games that have some of the most egregious examples of microtransactions sell far more than that, I don't really buy the declining revenue argument.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,936
This is a really flawed argument for multiple reasons

[...]
3.Nobody is forcing these publishers to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a single video game, so i don't have much sympathy for the inflated budget argument.
Now there's a flawed argument. People need to accept the fact that dev budgets have gone up, and should also accept the common sense thinking that gamers don't want all their games to look like PS2 games did. They don't upgrade to 4K, and Pro or X1X, expecting the exact same graphics as the base console. The biggest selling console game is the most expensive console game ever made.

Considering many of the paid games that have some of the most egregious examples of microtransactions sell far more than that, I don't really buy the declining revenue argument.
That suggests the market has spoken. What we see in the industry is the result of gamers spending. They all vote with their wallets. If it sells, the publisher will make more of it. If not, they'll go out of business or stop making it.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Now there's a flawed argument. People need to accept the fact that dev budgets have gone up, and should also accept the common sense thinking that gamers don't want all their games to look like PS2 games did. They don't upgrade to 4K, and Pro or X1X, expecting the exact same graphics as the base console. The biggest selling console game is the most expensive console game ever made.


That suggests the market has spoken. What we see in the industry is the result of gamers spending. They all vote with their wallets. If it sells, the publisher will make more of it. If not, they'll go out of business or stop making it.

I might agree with you if these things weren't designed from the ground up to be Skinner boxes for 12 year olds.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,544
Now there's a flawed argument. People need to accept the fact that dev budgets have gone up, and should also accept the common sense thinking that gamers don't want all their games to look like PS2 games did. They don't upgrade to 4K, and Pro or X1X, expecting the exact same graphics as the base console. The biggest selling console game is the most expensive console game ever made.

All i'm saying is that game prices aren't going up, Activision is actually considering making COD F2P, that's the direction we're heading in. The $70 game boogey-man isn't accurate.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
This is a really flawed argument for multiple reasons

1.The most popular game in the world is F2P with no lootboxes and no P2W mechanics
2.Games are more likely to go F2P than they are to raise in price, the extra $10 they can get from a $70 price tag is pennies compared to the uncapped spending that MTX provide, it's inconsequential in the grand scheme of games like Fifa and Fortnite.
3.Nobody is forcing these publishers to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a single video game, so i don't have much sympathy for the inflated budget argument.
4.I would happily pay an extra $10 to not have a game built with compromised progression/loot systems that are built from the ground up to exploit rather than to entertain.

You know that with your third argument you can make the same for people spending on lootboxes, right? Because nobody is forcing them to spend any money on those as well.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
Now there's a flawed argument. People need to accept the fact that dev budgets have gone up, and should also accept the common sense thinking that gamers don't want all their games to look like PS2 games did. They don't upgrade to 4K, and Pro or X1X, expecting the exact same graphics as the base console. The biggest selling console game is the most expensive console game ever made.
Adapt or die. This is the bitter truth of business. If you can't adapt to the market, you die, if you refuse to adapt, you die. And seeing as these major corporations have ways they could adapt by simply scaling back, then it's on them for not adapting. If gamers don't want to see AAA scaled back, they can go cry me a river.
 

Charsace

Chicken Chaser
Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,851
Next years games could be the last of mature games.
Not only will nothing be lost, but games will be better. They will no longer be designed to be bad on purpose to force people to pay money to make them good.

No more grind mechanics. Cooldowns. Crappy normal items/skins so that you pay for the loot boxes etc.

I don't understand how any consumer could possibly have an issue with banning a predatory practice that likely ruins many people's lives and makes games actively worse.

But you know, MUH FREEDUMB.

Pretty much every for-profit industry in history has shown it cannot be trusted to self regulate - because guess what when your number one and only priority is profit at all costs you end up making some pretty horrible moral decisions. Which is why you had tobacco industries suppressing the research showing smoking caused lung cancer, or big oil/coal suppressing climate change research etc. I'm sure ruining the planet and the millions of people dead from lung cancer are a price worth paying for some ridiculous illogical fear of oversight.

Self regulation does not work, because there is an obvious and inherent conflict of interest.
You are setting yourself up for disappointment if you think grinding and cooldowns will be gone. Or that you won't have to grind for the better looking items still. Grinding will remain and my guess is that developers will make it worse. More games will have a similar grind to the NBA 2k series which has ridiculous grinding.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,239
Next years games could be the last of mature games.

You are setting yourself up for disappointment if you think grinding and cooldowns will be gone. Or that you won't have to grind for the better looking items still. Grinding will remain and my guess is that developers will make it worse. More games will have a similar grind to the NBA 2k series which has ridiculous grinding.

One of the things the bill bans specifically is micro transactions that let you skip the grind/cooldown. So if the publishers are prohibited from letting you pay to skip them, why would they still be in there?
 

Slaytronic

Member
Jan 29, 2019
9
this wasn't only EA's fault it's nearly every triple A dev out there most of them have blood on their hands
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
The industry was warned they were flying too close to the sun. This could have been avoided if they self regulated.

Frankly they need regulation now, I don't know the ins and outs of this particular bill so not sure where I stand on it and I'm not American.

I'm pro regulation in principle but will not be in favour of a complete ban or something as extreme as that.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,936
One of the things the bill bans specifically is micro transactions that let you skip the grind/cooldown. So if the publishers are prohibited from letting you pay to skip them, why would they still be in there?
I think that refers to mobile games where you have to wait X hours/days for something to let you continue playing, unless you pay up now to expedite it. Whenever I see that, I just stop playing it forever. That's much easier than remembering to come back in a couple of days.
 

Charsace

Chicken Chaser
Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,851
One of the things the bill bans specifically is micro transactions that let you skip the grind/cooldown. So if the publishers are prohibited from letting you pay to skip them, why would they still be in there?
They can't ban grinding as it has nothing to do with the random roll itself. You will still have NBA2k myplayer style grinding to unlock things.
 

Cow Mengde

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,695
Something needs to be done. The game industry won't do anything about it, then guess what, you just played yourselves.
 

J_Atlas

Member
Apr 11, 2019
391
"Why didn't they stop before it got this bad?"

Because thats what companies try to do in late stage capitalism, get all of the money, to have more money than anyone else.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,014
UK
Now there's a flawed argument. People need to accept the fact that dev budgets have gone up, and should also accept the common sense thinking that gamers don't want all their games to look like PS2 games did. They don't upgrade to 4K, and Pro or X1X, expecting the exact same graphics as the base console. The biggest selling console game is the most expensive console game ever made.

The biggest games in the world right now don't look anywhere close to the best AAA games

Fortnite isn't a looker, PUBG is ugly as sin, Apex Legends looks decent but it's not one of the best looking games of the generation, GTAV looks good but it's a 2013 game that looks no where close to the best 2019 games

Also most people playing on console didn't upgrade to the Pro/XB1X

This idea that gamers would revolt if publishers cut back on graphics is completely unfounded. Do you seriously think people would just quit gaming altogether because their new Assassin's Creed only looks just as good as the last Assassin's Creed? This is a nonsense argument
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,239
They can't ban grinding as it has nothing to do with the random roll itself. You will still have NBA2k myplayer style grinding to unlock things.

Have you read the text of the bill? It doesn't only pertain to blind boxes.

Here's the relevant segment, a portion of how it defines "pay-to-win microtransactions":

with respect to an interactive digital entertainment product that, from the perspective of a reasonable user of the product, is a game offering a scoring system, a set of goals to achieve, a set of rewards, or a sense of interactive progression through the product's content including but not limited to narrative progression—

(I) eases a user's progression through content otherwise available within the game without the purchase of such transaction;

(II) assists a user in accomplishing an achievement within the game that can otherwise be accomplished without the purchase of such transaction;

(III) assists a user in receiving an award associated with the game that is otherwise available in association with the game without the purchase of such transaction; or

(IV) permits a user to continue to access content of the game that had previously been accessible to the user but has been made inaccessible after the expiration of a timer or a number of gameplay attempts

NBA2K selling VC for real money is prohibited by the bill so long as NBA2K is a covered game (and it almost certainly would be).
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Adapt or die. This is the bitter truth of business. If you can't adapt to the market, you die, if you refuse to adapt, you die. And seeing as these major corporations have ways they could adapt by simply scaling back, then it's on them for not adapting. If gamers don't want to see AAA scaled back, they can go cry me a river.

Don't blindly buy into the "everything will have to be scaled back" fearmongering.

It's a tactic used to attempt to scare dissenters into thinking every game will literally be pong if we dare usher in a future without loot boxes, gambling and manipulative MTs in gaming.

Or have it all relegated to 18+/Gambling regulated if it wants to exist.
 

Deleted member 36086

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 13, 2017
897
Not to pick on you, but do the people who always make this argument think they have somehow outsmarted governments who are looking to draft bills against lootboxes?

Do they think they have outwitted gambling commissions, and writers, and thinkers, and journalists who have written and investigated the subject, and that all these people are just unaware of trading cards, and the soon as they are aware, their entire argument will fall down?

Laws get thrown out all the time when challenged in court and in the unlikely event this bill eventually becomes law, I have no doubt this one will get thrown out too because the mechanics for loot boxes and trading cards are exactly the same.

Is that what they assume is more likely than them being wrong about lootboxes and trading cards being the same thing, with the same reach, impact, and scope for exploitation?

That's nothing more than speculation at this point.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,239
I think that refers to mobile games where you have to wait X hours/days for something to let you continue playing, unless you pay up now to expedite it. Whenever I see that, I just stop playing it forever. That's much easier than remembering to come back in a couple of days.

Since I missed this, check out my other post with the text of the bill. It covers that, but it also covers grinds that you can pay to skip. One section definitely refers specifically to the mobile game concept, but it's not just that.
 

Deleted member 50374

alt account
Banned
Dec 4, 2018
2,482
You know that with your third argument you can make the same for people spending on lootboxes, right? Because nobody is forcing them to spend any money on those as well.
Nobody is also forced to drink alcohol, gamble, smoke or do drugs, yet we have laws, funny uh?

We didn't have lootboxes for like 35 fucking years until some manager invented this crap, we can survive without them.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
Don't blindly buy into the "everything will have to be scaled back" fearmongering.

It's a tactic used to attempt to scare dissenters into thinking every game will literally be pong if we dare usher in a future without loot boxes, gambling and manipulative MTs in gaming.

Or have it all relegated to 18+/Gambling regulated if it wants to exist.
I don't. But I would be fine if some things were scaled back. Not every game needs to be open world or have millions of side quests. That alone, I could see cost coming down at least a little bit.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
I don't. But I would be fine if some things were scaled back. Not every game needs to be open world or have millions of side quests. That alone, I could see cost coming down at least a little bit.

Oh, I agree.

I just see too much of the "AAA games couldn't exist without predatory influencing/monetisation", when many of them still make hundreds of millions off sales alone.

Greed isn't an excuse for "couldn't be made". It could be made and it will make money, your shareholders might simply need to be happier with a bit less of the money they drain from kids and addicts.
 

Amauri14

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,694
Danbury, CT, USA
EA flew too close to the sun and now the whole industry is fucked. lol
Yeah, they got too greedy, and the ESA got too confident and didn't self regulate, or accepted that there was a problem to address, this one can still fail, but now the government is aware of that unregulated system that makes a big portion of the revenue that those companies make.

And if this one fails I'm sure that the next ones will come with more keywords on their name that the Protecting Children from Abusive Games Act.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,936
Since I missed this, check out my other post with the text of the bill. It covers that, but it also covers grinds that you can pay to skip. One section definitely refers specifically to the mobile game concept, but it's not just that.
Do you have a link for it? The OP doesn't, and Google takes me to a page on Hawley's site which doesn't have it.
 

jdstorm

Member
Jan 6, 2018
7,562
Laws get thrown out all the time when challenged in court and in the unlikely event this bill eventually becomes law, I have no doubt this one will get thrown out too because the mechanics for loot boxes and trading cards are exactly the same.



That's nothing more than speculation at this point.

Either that or EA also destroyed loot boxes in the trading card industry and they will have to change their business model as well
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,936
The biggest games in the world right now don't look anywhere close to the best AAA games

Fortnite isn't a looker, PUBG is ugly as sin, Apex Legends looks decent but it's not one of the best looking games of the generation, GTAV looks good but it's a 2013 game that looks no where close to the best 2019 games

Also most people playing on console didn't upgrade to the Pro/XB1X

This idea that gamers would revolt if publishers cut back on graphics is completely unfounded. Do you seriously think people would just quit gaming altogether because their new Assassin's Creed only looks just as good as the last Assassin's Creed? This is a nonsense argument
Most people playing on console upgraded from PS3/360, and before that from PS2/Xbox. And they will upgrade to PS5 etc. If the argument is scaling back on budgets (while also perhaps spending more due to unionization because gamers here hate seeing crunch), we're going to have to go back a lot further than a year.
 

Dakkon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,185
Not only will nothing be lost, but games will be better. They will no longer be designed to be bad on purpose to force people to pay money to make them good.

No more grind mechanics. Cooldowns. Crappy normal items/skins so that you pay for the loot boxes etc.

I don't understand how any consumer could possibly have an issue with banning a predatory practice that likely ruins many people's lives and makes games actively worse.

But you know, MUH FREEDUMB.

Pretty much every for-profit industry in history has shown it cannot be trusted to self regulate - because guess what when your number one and only priority is profit at all costs you end up making some pretty horrible moral decisions. Which is why you had tobacco industries suppressing the research showing smoking caused lung cancer, or big oil/coal suppressing climate change research etc. I'm sure ruining the planet and the millions of people dead from lung cancer are a price worth paying for some ridiculous illogical fear of oversight.

Self regulation does not work, because there is an obvious and inherent conflict of interest.

e:

Oops I didn't see the text of the bill is actually out, I guess I'll get to reading it then give my thoughts, sorry about that I just got home and didn't see any threadmarks or anything created for the bill text. :( Removed my previous post text due to that.
 
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ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,544
Most people playing on console upgraded from PS3/360, and before that from PS2/Xbox. And they will upgrade to PS5 etc. If the argument is scaling back on budgets (while also perhaps spending more due to unionization because gamers here hate seeing crunch), we're going to have to go back a lot further than a year.

Sounds good to me. Alot of my favorite games this gen have significantly smaller budgets than EA/Activision/Ubisoft games do. These ultra inflated budgets lead to safe game design and compromised progression/loot systems.
 

Dakkon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,185
Well, I read it, it seems incredibly fine actually. It's interesting they keep the age at 18 because it means companies can't just go for an ESRB Mature rating to sell loot boxes as a plausibility deniability option since ESRB's M rating is 17+.

I think the very real long term worry is that with the advent of the digital age, Steam willingly allowing AO games on its platform, and Sony/MS likely wanting to keep their profit cuts going, I do wonder if you could see companies (and the ESRB themselves) redefining the age gaps a bit, making it so selling loot boxes gets you an AO rating automatically in line with this law, making each online AO game have an age check, and then they just push their games into the AO space with loot boxes and use the age check as plausibility deniability that they didn't know they have below 18 year old people playing their game. Sony/MS could take on AO games that are only AO due to loot boxes and be peachy.

This would basically bypass the law entirely, best as I can tell.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,544
Well, I read it, it seems incredibly fine actually.

I'm a big supporter of regulation (specifically for lootboxes/blind purchases) but this bill is massively flawed, here's a lawyer that dismantles it brick by brick for nearly an hour.



He also made a follow up video, this one's over an hour long but i haven't got a chance to listen to it yet.



The best thing that could come from this legislation is if it puts the fear of god into the publishers and causes them to self regulate. The government is full of old people that don't know anything about video games and are motivated by outside factors. Self regulation is the end goal here.
 

Ghost305

Banned
Jan 6, 2018
775
Why you are blaming us for forcing developers to make games that need to sell 6m copies to break even?

Because we're the ones to blame. Gamers demand shiny graphics and breakthrough tech in all the newest games.

Shockingly, that shit costs money.

It's not business advice, it's just business, if a company can't make money and goes under, then it goes under, if it needs to exploit people to stay in business, then why should we be defending this model?

Because it works.

Again, don't blame the publisher. Blame consumers. They're the ones buying it, regardless of how much you don't like it.

Lol how did we resist price rises? Who started selling games at 70 dollars and then went under? Point me to the backlash?The base game is normally $60 with other editions being way more than $60 anyway. It's more likely that $60 is the best price if you want a lot of people to get your game at day 1. Also, I'm in the UK and game prices have been going up over the last 15 years here

People freaked out over Michael Pachter predicting (incorrectly) a rise to $70 for this gen.

And I'm not talking about 'special editions.' I'm talking about base price being raised. If you want to mitigate mtx & lootboxes, that is one of the better ways.

I don't see price rises as a punishment, but I find it odd people frame it as a punishment to consumers for not wanting to deal with things like lootboxes. We're warned "well, you need lootboxes or prices will go up"

I don't think that is a punishment, but it's framed that way to shoot down criticism of predatory practices

It's reality. You might not like lootboxes/mtx, but you're vastly outnumbered by people who do and buy them. To a publisher, they matter more than you do...because they speak with their dollars and you don't.

If something has to give, why can't it be making games with absurd budgets that require 10m copies to be sold and a casino attached to make a profit?
Already answered that question above.
 

Bastables

Member
Dec 3, 2017
367
I'll admit I have no idea how fortnite is monetized. So if it wasn't lootboxes but children could instead just buy clothes directly, but some designer clothes were way more than others and thus became a status symbol and people got bullied for not being able to afford it, that would be ok? You'd still get the same bullying article either way.

I understand the addictive nature of lootboxes and random draws and gachas, but if parents don't pay for them how are kids exposed? Something should absolutely be done about the addictive nature of stuff, I just don't see why we're focused on kids who for the most part need to go to their parents (or should need to go to their parents) to spend money.
So you have no idea on the particulars, of course.

Of course we should not be focusing on kids, after all just blame the parents, not the companies in question literally marketing their products through toys and and breakfast pop tarts, you know aimed at kids, never mind the games and the loot boxes themselves.

Tell me if underage drinking occurs do you just blame the parents? not the vendor? not the company that makes sugar pop alcohol?

Do you think we should advertise Kahlua during Saturday morning cartoons? After all kids can only source their monies through parents...
 

GodofWine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,775
I get that this is good, but the u.s. government has so many actual issues that are way bigger than this, I'll applaud this after the so gun control, healthcare reform and stop trying to govern via the bible
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
I'm a big supporter of regulation (specifically for lootboxes/blind purchases) but this bill is massively flawed, here's a lawyer that dismantles it brick by brick for nearly an hour.



He also made a follow up video, this one's over an hour long but i haven't got a chance to listen to it yet.



The best thing that could come from this legislation is if it puts the fear of god into the publishers and causes them to self regulate. The government is full of old people that don't know anything about video games and are motivated by outside factors. Self regulation is the end goal here.

I know when a lawyer takes a side of an argument, they like to throw every single last thing at the wall even if they themselves know it's ridiculous, but I don't think that's acceptable when trying to teach a general audience about a legal subject. He should condense it down to the stuff that actually matters, and talk about it like a judge might, not a lawyer, at least if he expects it to end up places like here.

13 minutes in for instance, he completely misleads what constructive knowledge means. Copyright laws have constructive knowledge requirements, which is why Google actively moderates youtube themselves, instead of waiting for a cease and desist. It doesn't mean Youtube is killed because they know they'll miss some stuff. Youtube has more leeway given its nature than other things because it's harder to say they "should have known" about every single infringement, but that doesn't defacto make it only actual knowledge.

His takedown of COPPA definitions also ignores where that law has been used successfully because the government didn't try to go after the egregious stuff he listed. Government trying to do stupid things the law never intended doesn't kill the law.

There's some points he brought up that might be meaningful and I'd like to know more about, but it's hard to know if they're worth taking seriously in this without more research than I care to do to say for sure.
 
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Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,936