Polygon: Apex Legends has lost its huge momentum

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
601
The battle pass was so disappointing that I just stopped caring for the most part. If that's their idea of a rewarding grind.... nah.
A battle pass that is impossible for 90% of your players was never a good idea. To make such a pass with absolute trash as the majority of the rewards even less so.

There is basically no compelling reason for most players to buy it. If you're the most hardcore of hardcore Apex players then I guess it might be worth it? For everyone else it's more hard pass than battle pass.
 

JuicyPlayer

Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,644
I wish you could gain more XP for the season pass. Even when you get a decent amount of kills it still moves to a crawl.
 

packy17

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,515
A battle pass that is impossible for 90% of your players was never a good idea. To make such a pass with absolute trash as the majority of the rewards even less so.

There is basically no compelling reason for most players to buy it. If you're the most hardcore of hardcore Apex players then I guess it might be worth it? For everyone else it's more hard pass than battle pass.
It’s not just the difficulty. The rewards in it are almost all universally bad or underwhelming. Even the final reward is a skin for a gun most people don’t like to pick up anyway. I don’t know what they were thinking.
 

Edge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,042
Celle, Germany
Wait, they released a Battle Pass without challenges? how the hell do they expect people to rank up? Grinding like madmen? That would make people get bored of the game faster!


I do like it way more with just collecting XP for playing than having stupid challenges.
Specially when the challenges, like in Fortnite, are the only real way to get this Battle Pass XP, since normal playing barely gives you anything. So after the challenges you start to ask yourself why you even play it in the time between.

Also, the XP system is extremely fair balanced with weekly 25000 double extra XP collectable for every single character. That's motivating to switch out the chars more often and like I said, it's extremely fair. Many people I know are already done with it, after 1 months out of 3. That's extremely refreshing and relieving.
 

Gold

Member
Oct 27, 2017
34
Game needs a ranked mode. Look at other MP games, most of them have some kind of ranked ladder with seasonal rewards that keeps people playing.
 

Edge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,042
Celle, Germany
I wish you could gain more XP for the season pass. Even when you get a decent amount of kills it still moves to a crawl.
If you use the weekly double XP bonus for all the characters you get around 10000 BP XP every single top 3 round and you need only 3 rounds for one level. No matter if from level 5 to 6 or from level 93 to 94, the amount doesn't changes.
It's not a slow crawl at all.
 

Azoor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
680
Kuwait
I can't speak for everyone, but I quit due to slow updates and lackluster business model. I got bored after a while and uninstalled the game.
 

Haunted

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,382
This seems like a completely normal cycle for a videogame?

Game starts out strong, then the hype cools down, and eventually most people go back to their old evergreen games (CS, DOTA, LoL, I suppose Fortnite now as well) while the rest latches on to the next big deathmatch coop moba survival battle royale game with a big budget, publisher and an even bigger marketing campaign.
 

Croco

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
32
It's sad that people lose interest because of cosmetics and microtransactions. The game is a lot of fun and the best BR out there right now.
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
601
Also, the XP system is extremely fair balanced with weekly 25000 double extra XP collectable for every single character. That's motivating to switch out the chars more often and like I said, it's extremely fair. Many people I know are already done with it, after 1 months out of 3. That's extremely refreshing and relieving.
Do not be under any impression that the people you know, who clearly played the game like a second job to do that since it takes about 100 hours+ to complete the pass, are "normal" or even close to being the majority of players.

How many players sink 30-40 hours into Apex a month (over an hour a day)? I can tell you now it's not going to be a significant portion of the player base, yet these are the only people who have a hope of completing the battle pass.

Asking that level of commitment of your players is just gonna hurt you. The first battle pass is not fair, balanced or refreshing for most players - it's a complete failure. Like I said before, maybe for the most hardcore of hardcore players it's ok.

The first battle pass has been a disaster, after such a strong launch. Polygon are completely right on that front.
 

The Bookerman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,045
I'm not a fan of Fortnite. Last I played it, I hated my experience. Loose and uninspired.

I like what Apex does though. They need to ramp up, lets just give them time.
 

Edge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,042
Celle, Germany
Do not be under any impression that the people you know, who clearly played the game like a second job to do that since it takes about 100 hours+ to complete the pass, are "normal" or even close to being the majority of players.

How many players sink 30-40 hours into Apex a month (over an hour a day)? I can tell you now it's not going to be a significant portion of the player base, yet these are the only people who have a hope of completing the battle pass.

Asking that level of commitment of your players is just gonna hurt you. The first battle pass is not fair, balanced or refreshing for most players - it's a complete failure. Like I said before, maybe for the most hardcore of hardcore players it's ok.

The first battle pass has been a disaster, after such a strong launch. Polygon are completely right on that front.

Nah, I play it very rarely at the moment and even I'm already at level 50. It is fair and way faster than in several other Battle Passes out there.

For some maybe not motivating enough without challenges, ok, the Battle Pass itself is maybe disappointing and I absolutely agree here. But the level rate and level balance is good.

3 top 3 matches and you get a level up. Always. No matter if from level 5-6 or 98-99. Saying that is supposed to be time consuming or unfair makes me think you never ever even tried any other Battle Pass out there. Because then you would know what time consuming and unfair really is.

Is the Battle Pass disappointing and lackluster, yes, but it isn't unfair to level. I absolutely disagree.
 

Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,106
Nah, I play it very rarely at the moment and even I'm already at level 50. It is fair and way faster than in several other Battle Passes out there.

For some maybe not motivating enough without challenges, ok, the Battle Pass itself is maybe disappointing and I absolutely agree here. But the level rate and level balance is good.

3 top 3 matches and you get a level up. Always. No matter if from level 5-6 or 98-99. Saying that is supposed to be time consuming or unfair makes me think you never ever even tried any other Battle Pass out there. Because then you would know what time consuming and unfair really is.

Is the Battle Pass disappointing and lackluster, yes, but it isn't unfair to level. I absolutely disagree.
I mean come on. Expecting the average player to get 3 top 3 matches?

I dunno which battle passes you're comparing it too but its biggest competitor, Fortnite, the battle pass is monumentally easier to level up, for all skill levels. I'm not even that bad at Apex, played last night with my friend and we got a number of wins in the few hours we played. I got one level up during that time. Mean while if I spend the same amount of time on fortnite when I have dailies/challenges to do. I get like 5 battle pass ranks. I practically only need to play Fortnite for like an hour every 3 or so days(depending on whether I forget to log in to get a daily) to do dailies + weekly challenges and I'll get max battle pass easily with a number of weeks to spare at the end. Never mind the fact the rewards in the Fortnite are actually good.

Apex's battle pass is slow to level up, and completely unrewarding in what it offers. As I said in a similar thread about this issue. If I was hooked on Fortnite and gotten tired of Apex, I'd have no reason to log in and play Apex. Where as back when Apex first came out and I absolutely was hooked on Apex as well as being a bit fatigued with Fortnite, I still logged on to play Fortnite every now and if I needed to for dailies/challenges until I hit max level with the pass.
 

AaronMT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,472
Toronto
I stopped playing because of cheaters. This is what happens when you pick Source as your game engine. Years of utilities, knowledge and tools available for the script kiddies thanks to Counter Strike.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,735
A combination of...
- Hackers​
- A really bad Battlepass​
- Bad skins​
- Extremely slow iteration​
- Lack of flexibility in team size​
That’ll do it.
 

JuicyPlayer

Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,644
If you use the weekly double XP bonus for all the characters you get around 10000 BP XP every single top 3 round and you need only 3 rounds for one level. No matter if from level 5 to 6 or from level 93 to 94, the amount doesn't changes.
It's not a slow crawl at all.
Ah ok I almost always exclusively pick lifeline
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
377
Why does it have to be all or nothing? If a game doesn't match one of the biggest new properties on the planet it should just be written off as a failure? If the industry isn't sustainable without everyone chasing Fortnite we should just go home now.

Put this story against any about working conditions in game dev, unrealistic publisher performance expectations, exploitative gameplay microtransactions or broken games at launch and I much prefer Respawns approach of doing things on their own terms.

If people are going to stop playing because they don't find the hamster wheel leveling as satisfying as other games, fine. It's up to Respawn to bring players back, it's surely much healthier for them to do that to their own schedule rather than chasing constant growth.
 

MrS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,955
A trash BP will do that. It still plays better than any other BR on the market though, make no mistake about that.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,446
25 levels into the battle pass, everything you get out of it feels ugly, boring or useless. The gameplay is still super engaging, mind you.
 

Bigfellahull

Member
Mar 6, 2018
84
Apex is by far the most fun battle royale I've played. It plays so well! Yes the battle pass is bad and yes they can't / won't keep up development pace with Fortnight but how many games can!? I still super enjoy playing it and hopeful for some excellent updates soon.
 

VISION

Member
Oct 25, 2017
732
Game came out like two months ago... It's crazy how fast people will turn on a game these days.
 

Eclipse

Member
Jan 31, 2018
158
Germany
I wonder why:

- terrible battle pass (cosmetics are garbage tier besides the last ones, very grindy, solo play is way slower) - they said they'd design the 2nd one differently?
- server lags (the game still lags at the start frequently or has performance issues e. g. item quick access won't load) - still persisting after 2.5 months
- literally no loot boxes/crafting options post lvl 100 (not even 1 every 10/15/20 lvls) - could have been given from the start, they didn't want to $$$
- encountering hackers daily
- no daily/weekly challenges - could have been made from the start or introduced with the battle pass

I really like the game and it is my favorite battle royale game by far but it has so much room for improvements...
That being said most friends quit..
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,668
Chicago
I really like the core gameplay but this might be the only Battle Pass I've seen that actually made the game worse. It's a terrible grind with terrible rewards. I wanted to reward Respawn with money (because, no, I'm not buying an $18 skin) but I regret buying the BP.

Apex Legends needs some love from Respawn, and it needs it quickly.
 

DiceHands

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,172
I just kind of wish they had some sort of matchmaking system where I didnt get paired against people that have been playing every day since launch and have 10,000 kils and 500 wins. Where my casuals at?!
 

mnz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,016
It's funny, I don't really care about battle passes or unlocks in general, but seeing how slow this thing progresses has actually had a negative effect on me.

I would probably pay to remove all cosmetics from the game, including UI etc.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,545
I mean come on. Expecting the average player to get 3 top 3 matches?

I dunno which battle passes you're comparing it too but its biggest competitor, Fortnite, the battle pass is monumentally easier to level up, for all skill levels. I'm not even that bad at Apex, played last night with my friend and we got a number of wins in the few hours we played. I got one level up during that time. Mean while if I spend the same amount of time on fortnite when I have dailies/challenges to do. I get like 5 battle pass ranks. I practically only need to play Fortnite for like an hour every 3 or so days(depending on whether I forget to log in to get a daily) to do dailies + weekly challenges and I'll get max battle pass easily with a number of weeks to spare at the end. Never mind the fact the rewards in the Fortnite are actually good.
As a counter point, I fundamentally resent that Fortnite's battle pass so specifically biases to playing on their clock.

Log in every day.
Play every three days.
Play a chunk every week.
Play a great deal more to fully unlock the progressive skins.

Not only that, but your entire time playing now revolves around completing challenges which are, at least for me, tedious, repetitive and not engaging. You can't just 'play' the game any more. You're opening a cheat sheet each week to knock off those challenges efficiently, especially because a good portion of them are practically hidden randomly. You're landing where they want. Competing with squadmates to get challenges done. Waiting while squadmates get challenges done. Yet not a single one of the challenges is interesting. Can a competent and determined player knock off a Battle Pass on a few hours a week if they play in a very specific, way at very specific times, and put up with having to spend several minutes every day logging into the game even when they don't want to play it? Sure. I did that for a while, but it made me enjoy the game less and so I stopped playing entirely.

Is this 'better'? For some. I think a lot of gamers fall into a trap of assuming that their experience is far more common than it actually is. Epic themselves say their Battle Passes take 75-150 hours to complete. The low end of that estimate is in line with the kind of hours/week you'd have to put in to complete the Apex pass. That you can do it faster if you basically go about it like a military operation is interesting, but just because it's your normal doesn't mean it is normal.

There are certain pretty significant issues with the Apex Battle Pass progression even ignoring the issues with the rewards. It's a surprisingly clumsy piece of monetisation/engagement retention mechanic. Having a flat level curve is an obvious mistake and demoralises people off the bat and, in actual fact, because you get XP bonuses as you progress, you will end progressing faster towards the end. The rate of progression without XP bonuses is problematically slow. The bonuses themselves would be better balanced if they were stronger and faster depleted. The progression and particularly the bonus progression being so heavily oriented around time rather than success feels bad, even if fundamentally it's done so the system doesn't bias too heavily towards skill. They can do much better with the Battle Pass and, frankly, I think they should seriously consider making changes to the progression of the S01 Battle Pass, let alone the S02 one. Yet while they should learn from Fortnite's Battle Pass, there's a lot wrong with it.
 

Nome

Designer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,425
NYC
ITT people don't understand retention curves.
It's normal for players to drop off.
Fortnite continues to grow because they continually spend money on user acquisition.
Apex either doesn't, or is spending comparatively less.

That said, Respawn is not great at live ops.
 

Hellsing321

Member
Oct 30, 2017
833
The only way to compete with Fortnite is to completely devote all your resources into it and since Respawn has their development resources split between Apex, Star Wars, and whatever the next Titanfall game is they aren’t going to be able to do that.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,455
Gentrified Brooklyn
It's funny, I don't really care about battle passes or unlocks in general, but seeing how slow this thing progresses has actually had a negative effect on me.

I would probably pay to remove all cosmetics from the game, including UI etc.
Weird aint it?
Similar to me; it kind of feels demoralizing now I paid for it and those first few weeks I busted my ass to get as much done since I had free time. Started a job the last two weeks and haven’t been able to keep on that schedule and now I feel ‘why bother’ because while I can def. sneak in the hours there’s other games I wanna play, TV shows I want to catch up with, and warmer weather to do things.

Ive got so many credits for chars ill probably check in when they release the next one, but for now Im gonna def curb my time with the game.
 

Arion

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,299
I got what I wanted out of it after playing it for a few dozen hours. Game is superb but I don't need to play anymore.
 

Shogun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
847
It was only natural that the player count would drop after launch. Twitch is very fad focused and the big streamers can boost a game dramatically on their own so when they stopped playing the numbers took a hit.

However personally and in my friend group the battle pass killed the game for us all. Seems so silly that pointless skins could do that but it offers terrible cosmetics, requires a lot of grinding and just feels really unrewarding. All felt a bit like if they can't be bothered why should we.
 

Biw

Member
Oct 28, 2017
95
I still play Apex every night with friends despite the battle pass being complete shit. The gameplay is what keeps me playing. It's kind of surprising to me to see people write the game off because of a battle pass.
 

WaffleTaco

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,906
They do need to update it more and I’m not sure why people care about the Season Pass that much. It’s awful, but it does not effect the game in any way, shape or form.
 

UltimateHigh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,404
i didn't touch the battle pass but I still play because I think it's gameplay and quality of life ideas (can solo in team no issue) put the rest of that genre to shame. (now just improve the netcode).
 

Bauer91

Member
Oct 26, 2017
638
Having fun with the game still, level 99 in the battle pass currently.

Most of the stuff you get in the battle pass is pretty bad, yes. If you change your region to Belgium and get to level 86, you get to pick any Legendary item in the game that you want. That alone is worth the $10.
 

Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,106
As a counter point, I fundamentally resent that Fortnite's battle pass so specifically biases to playing on their clock.

Log in every day.
Play every three days.
Play a chunk every week.
Play a great deal more to fully unlock the progressive skins.

Not only that, but your entire time playing now revolves around completing challenges which are, at least for me, tedious, repetitive and not engaging. You can't just 'play' the game any more. You're opening a cheat sheet each week to knock off those challenges efficiently, especially because a good portion of them are practically hidden randomly. You're landing where they want. Competing with squadmates to get challenges done. Waiting while squadmates get challenges done. Yet not a single one of the challenges is interesting. Can a competent and determined player knock off a Battle Pass on a few hours a week if they play in a very specific, way at very specific times, and put up with having to spend several minutes every day logging into the game even when they don't want to play it? Sure. I did that for a while, but it made me enjoy the game less and so I stopped playing entirely.

Is this 'better'? For some. I think a lot of gamers fall into a trap of assuming that their experience is far more common than it actually is. Epic themselves say their Battle Passes take 75-150 hours to complete. The low end of that estimate is in line with the kind of hours/week you'd have to put in to complete the Apex pass. That you can do it faster if you basically go about it like a military operation is interesting, but just because it's your normal doesn't mean it is normal.

There are certain pretty significant issues with the Apex Battle Pass progression even ignoring the issues with the rewards. It's a surprisingly clumsy piece of monetisation/engagement retention mechanic. Having a flat level curve is an obvious mistake and demoralises people off the bat and, in actual fact, because you get XP bonuses as you progress, you will end progressing faster towards the end. The rate of progression without XP bonuses is problematically slow. The bonuses themselves would be better balanced if they were stronger and faster depleted. The progression and particularly the bonus progression being so heavily oriented around time rather than success feels bad, even if fundamentally it's done so the system doesn't bias too heavily towards skill. They can do much better with the Battle Pass and, frankly, I think they should seriously consider making changes to the progression of the S01 Battle Pass, let alone the S02 one. Yet while they should learn from Fortnite's Battle Pass, there's a lot wrong with it.
Oh, I'm not saying Fortnite's system is perfect. I'm just saying in comparison to Apex it requires far far less of my time to complete, which is a good thing. If you're paying money for extra progression, you shouldn't then feel forced to play to death to get your moneys worth.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,492
I threw money at the battle pass to support the game but it's a real bummer. Feels like the battle pass broke a lot of people looking for a reason to play the game longterm and they haven't really done anything to entice them back since.
 

SuperBoss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
682
I bought the pass just to give repspawn some monetary appreciation for their awesome game. I've since stopped playing only cuz Sekiro came out. But i will be going back
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
601
Nah, I play it very rarely at the moment and even I'm already at level 50. It is fair and way faster than in several other Battle Passes out there.
Even Respawn themselves said it takes 100 hours to max the pass. "I'm not playing very much, just 50 hours in the past 2 months".

Again, you are not normal. To a normal person spending 25 hours a month playing a single multiplayer shooter is not normal.

And we know this to be true - look at the levels of the people you play against. How many are 100+? Not many in my experience. Those are the only people who have a hope of completing the battle pass. If everyone played 10s of hours a week then most people would easily be level 100+, clearly that isn't the case.
 

Biw

Member
Oct 28, 2017
95
Even Respawn themselves said it takes 100 hours to max the pass. "I'm not playing very much, just 50 hours in the past 2 months".

Again, you are not normal. To a normal person spending 25 hours a month playing a single multiplayer shooter is not normal.

And we know this to be true - look at the levels of the people you play against. How many are 100+? Not many in my experience. Those are the only people who have a hope of completing the battle pass. If everyone played 10s of hours a week then most people would easily be level 100+, clearly that isn't the case.
Spending less than an hour a day gaming is not normal? The majority of people I know that game play way more than that.