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Polygon: Apex Legends has lost its huge momentum

Oct 28, 2017
86
Fortnite and BR games won't last forever. We just don't yet know what the next fad YouTubers are going to get kids into.
Idk about that. BR taps into something primal lol. It's the best multi-player mode to come out in a while and I don't think it's a coincidence it's absolutely blown up.
 
Oct 27, 2017
824
As a counter point, I fundamentally resent that Fortnite's battle pass so specifically biases to playing on their clock.
It does to a degree, but the trade off is that you get a huge amount of progress in the battle pass for a minimal amount of work, as someone who is currently trying to get to the end of the current Blackout pass and have no recourse other than playing a ton more than I want to in the 2 weeks remaining. It's really nice having that safety net of the 20-30 levels I can "cash in" at any time during the pass, as opposed to Blackout which requires playing every day for their free pass level.

I dropped off of Apex mostly because of the netcode and the bad drops, far too many times we would drop into a location and find maybe one proper weapon between all of us and just countless low-end pistols. Plus the 3-man squad was kinda crappy as we have had a solid 4-person group from Blackout/Fortnite and always felt bad leaving someone out.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,797
USA
Shouldn't be a big surprise. Apex did a lot more damage to Black Ops 4 than it did to Fortnite. Fortnite just kept doing its thing, and borrowed the good ideas that Apex brought to the table.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,722
Chicago
Oh, I'm not saying Fortnite's system is perfect. I'm just saying in comparison to Apex it requires far far less of my time to complete, which is a good thing. If you're paying money for extra progression, you shouldn't then feel forced to play to death to get your moneys worth.
This is my experience. I'm at level 70 right now in the Fortnite season 8 BP with about an hour of play every three days or so, and yeah, the challenges are actually pretty fun and the rewards (banana skin!) are damn good.

To top it off Season 8 was "free", as well.
 

Nacho

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,658
NYC
Yeah I haven't played the game nearly as much. But he fun this about these types of games is I don't have to be playing it 20 hours a week constantly to enjoy it. I can wait until there's a better battle pass or new map to jump back in and play occasionally until then. Doesn't ruin the game or make it dead.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,841
Lancaster, PA
The Season Pass sure isn’t very good, just like pretty much everyone else I was extremely disappointed in it. But I enjoy the core gameplay enough that pretty much any night I’m home I’ll play a few rounds with friends. Just not as many hours as I was before.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,532
Even Respawn themselves said it takes 100 hours to max the pass. "I'm not playing very much, just 50 hours in the past 2 months".

Again, you are not normal. To a normal person spending 25 hours a month playing a single multiplayer shooter is not normal.

And we know this to be true - look at the levels of the people you play against. How many are 100+? Not many in my experience. Those are the only people who have a hope of completing the battle pass. If everyone played 10s of hours a week then most people would easily be level 100+, clearly that isn't the case.
1) Respawn believe it will take less time to get to Battle Pass 100 than XP Level 100
2) The Battle Pass is three months long, and the game has been out for two months

More generally, Battle Passes aren't designed for normal players and that's true whichever game you look at. Battle Passes are for people that play a lot and are designed to encourage people to play a lot. This is true in Fortnite - Epic suggest 75-150 hours for Battle Pass completion over 10 Weeks - and it's true in Apex - Respawn suggest 100 hours for Battle Pass completion over 13 Weeks. Battle Passes aren't for casual fans.

There's plenty wrong with the Apex Battle Pass, but it feels like a lot of the criticism of it stems from a blindness to what Battle Passes actually are.
 
Jan 10, 2019
177
1) Respawn believe it will take less time to get to Battle Pass 100 than XP Level 100
So the fact the vast majority of people on Apex are level 50 or lower suggests that the vast majority of people probably shouldn't bother with the battle pass.

I mean, I'm not complaining, the pass is trash so they're not missing out. It's just quite the head scratcher when it comes to actually trying to make money off of the game.

If the pass was reasonable for the average gamer (say 30 hours for completion instead of 100) a lot more people would buy it and actually a lot more people would probably regularly play the game. Which is a win-win for Respawn.

I don't get why some games aim to monopolise a player's time. This is a multiplayer shooter. Having it to dip in and out of, rather than play religiously, is better because 1) it is feasible for the average person and 2) it doesn't force players to pick between Apex and other games since they can play both. And ultimately if more people are playing, even if they are incentivised to play less individually, and more people are buying the battle pass the more successful Apex is.

Surely it's better to have 20 million people playing the 30 hour battle pass than 500K playing the ultra hardcore version? More money, better engagement from a much bigger playerbase. Players win, Respawn wins.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
13,286
The XP amount per level of the BP is insane and I think turned a lot of people off (not too mention the contents of the pass).

The game is solid, it just needs more incentives in this day and age to keep people hooked.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,532
It does to a degree, but the trade off is that you get a huge amount of progress in the battle pass for a minimal amount of work, as someone who is currently trying to get to the end of the current Blackout pass and have no recourse other than playing a ton more than I want to in the 2 weeks remaining. It's really nice having that safety net of the 20-30 levels I can "cash in" at any time during the pass, as opposed to Blackout which requires playing every day for their free pass level.
Indeed. Apex's progression is extremely flat. Play half as much as the person that gets to Level 100 and you're probably going to end up somewhere between 45 and 50. That's clearly poor game design. They should be trying to get the majority of people into the back half of the progression, close enough that people grind/pay to unlock the last bits. Instead they're going to see a lot of people finishing their BPs in the 10s, 20s, 30s and so on because of how flat it is.
 
Jan 10, 2019
177
Indeed. Apex's progression is extremely flat. Play half as much as the person that gets to Level 100 and you're probably going to end up somewhere between 45 and 50. That's clearly poor game design. They should be trying to get the majority of people into the back half of the progression, close enough that people grind/pay to unlock the last bits. Instead they're going to see a lot of people finishing their BPs in the 10s, 20s, 30s and so on because of how flat it is.
I think a lot of people will have bought the battle pass not realising the kind of investment it would be to get anywhere in it. Combined with trash rewards I think a lot of battle pass purchasers will be kinda pissed at Respawn.

I was all set for buying the pass, thankfully I didn't pull the trigger until people had done the math. I played God of War instead of grinding through the pass (which cost me only 2x the cost of the pass in a PSN sale). I think that was the right decision.

Ultimately one of the criteria I judge games by now is how much they respect my time. Stuff like the battle pass doesn't so it doesn't get my money or time.
 
Jan 24, 2019
220
Apex’s rise was manufactured through $ for streamers and pulling in favours with the media. It wasn't organic at all. We’ll see where the organic level is in a few more months.
None of that matters if the gameplay doesnt keep up.

It did, until it didn't. Updates were slow, battle pass was trash, and the game would crash every 10-15 minutes.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,954
I dont get the people who say "lol what happened to playing the game"
its like, reward systems have been in multiplayer games for a LONG time. It provides motivation, a goal, something to play towards. It enhances the gaming experience. Look, I love Apex and I'm level 100, have dozens of victories, played for over 200 hours. It's still a good game but I'm not nearly as enthusiastic about it as before. Some fresh new content to play for would spice things up and would bring me back into the grind.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,532
So the fact the vast majority of people on Apex are level 50 or lower suggests that the vast majority of people probably shouldn't bother with the battle pass.
Not everyone started playing the game day one. A lot of the low levels you see are people who play quite a bit but started later. That's the nature of games, particularly GaaS. There's a constant churn of players disappearing and players joining.

I mean, I'm not complaining, the pass is trash so they're not missing out. It's just quite the head scratcher when it comes to actually trying to make money off of the game. If the pass was reasonable for the average gamer (say 30 hours for completion instead of 100) a lot more people would buy it and actually a lot more people would probably regularly play the game. Which is a win-win for Respawn.

I don't get why some games aim to monopolise a player's time. This is a multiplayer shooter. Having it to dip in and out of, rather than play religiously, is better because 1) it is feasible for the average person and 2) it doesn't force players to pick between Apex and other games since they can play both. And ultimately if more people are playing, even if they are incentivised to play less individually, and more people are buying the battle pass the more successful Apex is.

Surely it's better to have 20 million people playing the 30 hour battle pass than 500K playing the ultra hardcore version? More money, better engagement from a much bigger playerbase. Players win, Respawn wins.
What happens when the hardcore players complete the Battle Pass after 2 weeks and start clamouring for more*? They are, after all, the people that you most want to monetise. Fortnite's Battle Pass is clever. You can feasibly complete it in, say, fifty hours. Yet if you play for fifty hours on week one, you'd barely make a dent. It takes a huge amount of effort to complete the Battle Pass significantly early. If they made Apex's Battle Pass progression three times as fast, they'd have a whole new realm of issues on their hands. It's too simple of a solution.

*Oh look, someone in this thread who's completed the Battle Pass complaining of that very thing!

The Battle Pass is shit monetisation. Most of the criticisms of it are also shit.
 

Slayven

You probably post about me on another board.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
29,591
I am a weirdo, I like Fort Nite's PvE more than the battle royal. I thought it was just Fort Nite's implication of it, but turns out I like the idea of Battle Royals but I don't like their current form. I played Apex for about a week after launch, my team managed to get the number one spot once, and I decided to retire on top
 
Jan 24, 2019
220
I dont understand why Respawn/EA is taking so long to address some of these concerns. They could really take on fortnite if they took a risk and hired more people or whatever it would take to meet the demands of the gamers.


How is the Mozambique still garbage?!?!
 
Oct 28, 2017
86
I dont get the people who say "lol what happened to playing the game"
its like, reward systems have been in multiplayer games for a LONG time. It provides motivation, a goal, something to play towards. It enhances the gaming experience. Look, I love Apex and I'm level 100, have dozens of victories, played for over 200 hours. It's still a good game but I'm not nearly as enthusiastic about it as before. Some fresh new content to play for would spice things up and would bring me back into the grind.
I don't think anyone's blind to the fact that a steady stream of good content keeps players coming back. I'm more surprised that it seems to be some peoples main draw to a game.

I mean how did PUBG survive for so long when the game didn't have a battle pass for the majority of its life and STILL runs like shit on most platforms.

Apex released in a much better state than PUGB but we have people ready to play Taps in its honor.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,729
I don't think anyone's blind to the fact that a steady stream of good content keeps players coming back. I'm more surprised that it seems to be some peoples main draw to a game.

I mean how did PUBG survive for so long when the game didn't have a battle pass for the majority of its life and STILL runs like shit on most platforms.

Apex released in a much better state than PUGB but we have people ready to play Taps in its honor.
PUBG has solos, Duos and Squads. I like to screw around in solos a lot in BR games.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,924
Obv not just that kos even wins still doesn't give that much, this BP takes ages to reach 100 everything's very slow unless you play this game 24/7
Nope. I have a job and family too.
Wins. And I like to change characters too if that helps, Except the fat guys but mostly Bangalore.
wins/Kills/ play with friends etc . Wasn’t grinding it either.
 
Last edited:
Jun 8, 2018
89
This is my experience. I'm at level 70 right now in the Fortnite season 8 BP with about an hour of play every three days or so, and yeah, the challenges are actually pretty fun and the rewards (banana skin!) are damn good.

To top it off Season 8 was "free", as well.
You sure these #s are correct? 1 hour every 3 days is like 15ish hours playtime for 70 levels? That's like 5 levels an hour lol.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,722
Chicago
You sure these #s are correct? 1 hour every 3 days is like 15ish hours playtime for 70 levels? That's like 5 levels an hour lol.
I end up playing more than that, but really, to just do the daily and weekly challenges in Fortnite, it actually is that quick. All of the daily the challenges are meant to be finished in 1-3 matches, and many of them can be combined.

I did the math at one point for the Apex Battle pass. To hit level 100 in three weeks using the survival bonus would have taken more than 200 hours.

Just ... how? It takes a total of 2,950,000 XP. With the full legend bonus you make 6xp/second, So 136 hours. However, you there's only been ... 3 weeks of the bonus so far and after you hit that cap you're only earning 3XP/second.

So ... you could work through all three weeks of legend bonus with 62 hours of survival time. That would get you to 1,350,000 XP putting you at level 46. After that you'd need 1,600,000 XP, without the bonus, so 148 more hours of survival time.

So, 210 hours? In three weeks?

Obviously, this doesn't count the +50XP per kill, or damage, or +900XP for a win, but holy crap guys. That's some commitment.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,986
Similar articles from them have been posted on here about OW and Destiny 2 so I half-jokingly know them as the people who shit on MP games. They all seem like good articles from the quotes in OP
Yeah. Polygon is negative, yeah, but for good reason. I mean their articles just reflect what the community thinks 90 percent of the time, just streamlined into an article. The battlepass, netcode, updates... All are big complaints. Sad that Respawn is just dropping the ball here.

Still playing a ton tho.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,820
it's super weird to me that people need meta-progression elements and constant unlocks to enjoy and stick with a multiplayer game

kinda sad too, since it means we're so limited now in what's a viable game
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,054
it's super weird to me that people need meta-progression elements and constant unlocks to enjoy and stick with a multiplayer game

kinda sad too, since it means we're so limited now in what's a viable game
Ah poor devs being forced to support their games post release, if only they hadn't decided to design the game around being a follow the carrot f2p service/game with loot boxes

Such a weird tangent to take

And even if you're gonna pull this weird “what about just enjoying the game” card, the game still needs a bunch of fixes, and at least one more map, there are other studios doing this, it's not like it's an unreasonable request by their audience, it's the standard.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,353
it's super weird to me that people need meta-progression elements and constant unlocks to enjoy and stick with a multiplayer game

kinda sad too, since it means we're so limited now in what's a viable game
Look at it this way: your classic Quakes and Unreal Tournaments only had a small core fanbase that would stick with them for years, while the causal players would eventually always move on to the next thing. What modern "meta-progression elements and constant unlocks" do is keep those casual players around longer and make more money off of them. That doesn't mean that there still isn't a group of dedicated fans that would be playing Apex no matter what, it's just that Respawn is failing to satisfy those more casual players.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,388
We played it solid on release, Was the only game we played, Then the novelty wore off fast when we won our fair share, and Division 2 came out.

Haven't touched Apex since and don't plan too, Was a great time filler.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,820
Ah poor devs being forced to support their games post release, if only they hadn't decided to design the game around being a follow the carrot f2p service/game with loot boxes

Such a weird tangent to take

And even if you're gonna pull this weird “what about just enjoying the game” card, the game still needs a bunch of fixes, and at least one more map, there are other studios doing this, it's not like it's an unreasonable request by their audience, it's the standard.
i don't think i can fit all of those words you're trying to stuff into my mouth
 
Nov 9, 2017
649
My friends and I tried it, but there were simply too many abilities for us to learn (we have very limited gaming time) and there were far too many times when we would land and find NO weapons. So frustrating.

We just went back to COD Blackout. The new Hot Pursuit mode is so damn fun.
 
Oct 27, 2017
773
Players are weird nowadays.
If it is true people are stopping playing because there’s not enough new skins to unlock etc, then what happened to people playing games because they like the game!
All BR games have like zero depth to them. You just run around and shoot people. The only exception is fortnite because the building has a crazy skill ceiling. In the absence of deep gameplay to improve at the external rewards are all that are there to keep ya going
 
Oct 25, 2017
169
The game has stagnated. Respawn has been very slow with dealing with some issues and they haven't been communicating with their player base very well.

Squads is getting stale and I'm not sure if I want to keep playing the game when it's not clear what's next.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,851
Yeah the Battle Pass literally killed any desire I have to play that game. I was playing nearly every day but after seeing the rewards and how long it takes to get them, I noped right now.

I might check back later down the road if they include a ranking system.