Polygon: Apex Legends has lost its huge momentum

Oct 26, 2017
7,959
I said it in another thread it's mediocre first battle pass drove a lot of people away including me. It lacked everything that makes Fortnite's pass so good. But i think if they get the hang of it before the next pass and add a bunch of good daily challenges, lots of free and GOOD skins within it and more frequent updates with map changes and weapons it can easily catch it's momentum back up.
Agreed. I don't think glitches and shit were the problem. It was the horrendous BP.
 

Jakisthe

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,206
All BR games have like zero depth to them. You just run around and shoot people. The only exception is fortnite because the building has a crazy skill ceiling. In the absence of deep gameplay to improve at the external rewards are all that are there to keep ya going
Running around and shooting people is depth.
 

MrHedin

Member
Dec 7, 2018
448
Like many other people here I think the lackluster battle pass hurt them a bit. I also wonder on another level if Shroud's injury contributed, losing someone for a time who regularly streams to audiences of 50-60k can't help.
 

Filipus

Avenger
Dec 7, 2017
1,427
Just started playing today, what a fun game. There are some bugs here and there (voice chat was going bananas at a point) but VERY solid game.
 

JDFaulky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,943
I dropped off simply due to battle royale fatigue. I still haven't even touched the Firestorm addition to BFV either because I just don't care anymore.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,819
I think Apex is fine not being in first, and any BR trying to take out Fortnite has its work cut out for it, but Apex is doing well for itself. Getting into matches is blazing fast, so that's all I care about. I've never found it particularly interesting as a spectator game though.

I feel so alien when I see the big complaint levied towards it currently is the battle pass. It's lackluster for sure, but it's never my driving motivation for playing a game. The idea that people want Fortnite style challenges concerns me because all the meta objectives that come from it shift how I would play the game, as well as how everyone else would, to the detriment of the core game in my experience. Eventually Fortnite stopped actually feeling like a battle to being the last person standing and more about filling out the checklist of random tasks. While the contents of Apex's pass are bland at best, I love that it doesn't layer on a lot of annoying things to do to progress through it, I just play, and I get things. That's how I'd prefer it.

But there's also the idea of playing a game solely for its progression that weirds me out. I still load up Team Fortress 2 on the reg for nothing more than it being fun to play. I also play Apex when I do and make whatever progress I do when I play, but that's all a background consideration for me. I know games have conditioned their audience with this stuff since Modern Warfare, but I can't help but look at it and find it all a pity?
 

Defect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,759
Apex doesn’t need the dumb Fortnite BP challenges. How about they promote kills and wins instead of time played? No? K then
 

Gamer @ Heart

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,520
There is no way apex has even a quarter of the resources fortnite has thrown at it by epic. With how many projects respawn have in the works, unless EA quickly threw them a support team, I just can't imagine a scenario where it maintains any momentum. It took over a month to deliver a first real patch and they fell on their face.
 

KartuneDX

Member
Jan 12, 2018
661
I don’t know that this is a huge factor but being able to see how many kills everyone has is a bit of a deterrent effect I think.
 

frosti_

Member
Oct 28, 2017
25
it's super weird to me that people need meta-progression elements and constant unlocks to enjoy and stick with a multiplayer game

kinda sad too, since it means we're so limited now in what's a viable game
I completely agree with this.

Remember Halo 2? I played the hell out of that game and so did plenty of either people, and we didn’t earn any unlockables!!!

I agree that the BP for Apex is bogus with the XP requirements for leveling up, but, the gameplay is still solid.

Personally, I can’t go back to playing fortnite after playing apex for so long. Fortnite just feels slow in comparison, and the aiming feels janky. But hey, I guess you get those cosmetics faster!
 

DWarriorSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,062
PA
I completely agree with this.

Remember Halo 2? I played the hell out of that game and so did plenty of either people, and we didn’t earn any unlockables!!!

I agree that the BP for Apex is bogus with the XP requirements for leveling up, but, the gameplay is still solid.

Personally, I can’t go back to playing fortnite after playing apex for so long. Fortnite just feels slow in comparison, and the aiming feels janky. But hey, I guess you get those cosmetics faster!
Ranked emblems were rewards lol

Everybody was tryna get that mystical Halo symbol, shoutout to my forever 47 squad
 

Ciao

Member
Jun 14, 2018
1,273
I can''t comprehend how people have already finished the battle pass. How do you find the time?
 

Arkaign

Member
Nov 25, 2017
1,511
Was playing a fair bit early, gave them money for the BP, but around that time it just seemed like the playerbase started to get really frustrating to work with, cheaters, leavers, and the total lack of skill based matchmaking is baffling. I think it's been about a month since then, haven't played once since.
 

ParanoidRED

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,931
Season pass was barely OK but the game is still incredibly fun so whatever

They need to put out some sort of roadmap for the updates tho
 

Arkaign

Member
Nov 25, 2017
1,511
You know, the battle pass requiring a huge time commitment actually exacerbates the problems with the game even if you have zero interest in cosmetics and unlocks.

The lack of any matchmaking makes it incredibly unfriendly to new players. They just get facerolled by the TTV Wraith with 7000 kills immediately, rinse and repeat, while being immediately abandoned by their own team who will just run off solo to chase kills for their banners with zero interest in teamwork.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,544
Season pass was barely OK but the game is still incredibly fun so whatever

They need to put out some sort of roadmap for the updates tho
A roadmap feels like the main thing for me too. I like Apex far more than the other Battle Royale games, but it's hard to invest time/money into something without confidence about what the future will hold. There are many things they probably want to improve that will take a significant amount of time, but fixing their stance on PR would take days.

Then you see stuff like this, which is interesting, but does little to instill any confidence.

https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/bccx6m/this_response_from_a_respawn_dev_on_why_they_dont/

Effectively they're stating that Respawn's silence is driven by a fear of fan's response when features get cancelled or delayed. I think this is naive. Yes, there will always be gamers who complain about literally anything, but their silence turns off the quiet majority who would, at this point, like to hear sounds of life.
 

Zelas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,263
They underestimated just how important the season pass is to the replayability of the game. A lot of folks here like grinding for thensake of grinding but the larger gaming audience isnt a fan of endless repetition that serves little purpose. Their interests are much broader so there are many more shiny things vying for their attention. You have to keep up with that competition or you’re going to be left behind.

Fornite raised the bar. If you’re not reaching it from the start you’re going to suffer the same fate.
 

Hurting Bomb

Member
Oct 28, 2017
484
All BR games have like zero depth to them. You just run around and shoot people. The only exception is fortnite because the building has a crazy skill ceiling. In the absence of deep gameplay to improve at the external rewards are all that are there to keep ya going
Of course it has depth, depth of gameplay as I would say Apex has a hight skill ceiling.

Depth in wanting to better yourself and trying to win games or just having fun.

I just don’t understand people would stop playing a really good game because there isn’t another weapon skin to unlock that they will never use, I suppose it’s the playing habits of today.
 

Dude Abides

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,953
Im still having fun with it as I dont care about cosmetics and unlike Fortnite, the shooting is actually fun.
 

pahlke1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
398
Brisbane
What keeps me hooked on Fortnite is the season pass and the art style. I hope Black Out, Apex and Fortnite all continue to be popular to drive innovation
 

dtraposo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
867
I think what PUBG did well by way of having vehicles and more granular actions for the player to perform than Apex does is deliver to the player a more rich possibility space of potentiality, stories. You felt like fun, wild things could happen at any moment. It's not necessarily about whether they really did or not, more the potential for things to happen. I feel Apex doesn't really have that at this point in the meta, so matches can feel a bit stale.
 

spootime

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,302
Of course it has depth, depth of gameplay as I would say Apex has a hight skill ceiling.

Depth in wanting to better yourself and trying to win games or just having fun.

I just don’t understand people would stop playing a really good game because there isn’t another weapon skin to unlock that they will never use, I suppose it’s the playing habits of today.
That's not what I think of as depth at least. What I mean by lack of depth is that after the first 20-30 games all you can improve at is how good you are at shooting people. You know where all the loot spots are and now you just fight. It gets boring.

I mean compare it to something like Dota. It'll take hundreds of games just to learn the basics of what each hero does. Hundreds more to realize the basics of proper positioning, decision making, what heroes to pick in certain situations, etc.

Same with counter-strike. Learning flash spots, smoke spots, basic strats, positioning, crosshair placement, general map knowledge of 8-9 maps takes hundreds and hundreds of hours on top of being even more aim dependent than apex.

This is true for quake, halo, LoL, overwatch, world of warcraft, even CoD as well.

All of these BR games are incredibly disposable. There's no deep knowledge of the game that keeps you hooked for hundreds of hours. You just move on to the next BR (with fortnite building as an exception).
 

Kaworu

Member
Oct 28, 2017
144
I don't care about the bp or cosmetics, my problem is that playing the same game mode on the same map gets boring.
 

twentytwo22

Member
Oct 25, 2017
529
The battle pass actually made me stop playing. Progress was WAY slower than I thought it would be and the rewards are mostly crap. Also, 3 player as the only option has lead to some frustration.
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,427
Random teammates in Apex are much worse than every other BR game I've played. If they're not running away and dying solo they're likely running on your heels ready to steal anything useful you come across. I would never play the game by myself and when I try to play with one other friend we're quickly driven straight to other games by our random third ruining 95% of matches.
 

Green

Member
Oct 27, 2017
857
Games with a single mode and a single map are barebones, no matter the way you look at it. This game gets a pass because it's free to play, but it is still barebones. Every game can't be Fortnite. There needs to be some substance or people will get bored.
 
Oct 25, 2017
491
This game is awesome and apex is the best shooter! However the battle pass sucks and I can’t unlock anything cool so I won’t play this Amazing game......

Seriously don’t understand that line of thought. If the game is fun you play it if it isn’t you don’t. Cosmetics shouldn’t make a difference, but apparently they do and it’s fucking sad.
 

Gegz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,844
This game is awesome and apex is the best shooter! However the battle pass sucks and I can’t unlock anything cool so I won’t play this Amazing game......

Seriously don’t understand that line of thought. If the game is fun you play it if it isn’t you don’t. Cosmetics shouldn’t make a difference, but apparently they do and it’s fucking sad.
It's not that hard to understand to be honest. Replace "Battle pass" with ratio, rank, leagues, etc... It's okay to not playing something because you can't find something good enough to chase / keep you involved, no matter how good the gameplay is. Happens to a lot of people.
 

ZugZug123

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,678
While I do agree Apex could be updated more often, Fortnite’s pace is unsustainable for most teams and are often just change for change’s sake.
Epic closed down one game and left the STW portion of Fortnite for dead to go fulltime on Fortnite BR to be able to do these things. Most studios cannot afford to go all in on a single product.

But Apex battle pass could be a bit better. I mean, PUBG one this season is better, let alone Fortnite's.
 

Rodan

Member
Nov 3, 2017
326
I don't want to have an "old man" rant, but I could care less about cosmetics and Battle Passes and whatever "crafting mats"(?) are. I'm here for shooting mechanics, which are solid. I'd up the TTK a pinch, but I'm a Halo fan. Like someone a few posts ago mentioned, I love how quick I can get in a match. Add another map or two, characters, new weapons and whatnot, I'll keep playing. Especially because it's free and I haven't paid a cent...
 

Conkerkid11

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,898
This game is awesome and apex is the best shooter! However the battle pass sucks and I can’t unlock anything cool so I won’t play this Amazing game......

Seriously don’t understand that line of thought. If the game is fun you play it if it isn’t you don’t. Cosmetics shouldn’t make a difference, but apparently they do and it’s fucking sad.
Because a solid progression system helps mask the fact that you're doing the same thing over and over again.
 

thePopaShots

Member
Nov 27, 2017
490
I've fallen so hard off of BRs in the past couple of weeks it's crazy. I'd give anything to have a great arena shooter to play - something like a new Titanfall. I'm really hoping a game like Halo Infinite or a Modern Warfare 4 will give me my fix. Black Ops 4 is a fine enough arena shooter but they have been so stingy with new maps, and I don't love the class system.
 

Kittenz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
499
Minneapolis
I bought the battle pass simply because I had played a ton and they deserved some of my money. But yah - -was hoping there'd be challenges or something. Adds some spice and variety to it. I mean, I get you don't want to have "Get 5 kills with a Mozambique" as a challenge ruining the competitive nature. But "Respawn a teammate OR win without losing one" or "Drop after flying a distance of at least 'x' meters" or "Win a game without using your super" or "Do 'x' amount of damage in a match 3 times" or "Slide 'x' number of meters." There's lots of simple things they could do just to have that extra little carrot, but that wouldn't break competitive balance.
 

XDevil666

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,821
It still can pick up huge momentum again if they just get more engage and push updates in meaningful way
 
Nov 14, 2017
989
As most said here, the Season Pass is a big issue with the game.

Hackers (at least on console) and bugs are not an issue for me, and the gameplay is really good, but the season pass is really, really weak.
 

Toney J

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,413
it's super weird to me that people need meta-progression elements and constant unlocks to enjoy and stick with a multiplayer game

kinda sad too, since it means we're so limited now in what's a viable game
I think it just means these games aren't that good and need superficial stuff for people to keep playing them.
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,963
I think one of the bigger factors might have actually been the launch of Sekiro. Apex seems like it drew a lot of players who weren't exclusively online FPS fans, but rather just fans of great/'prestige' games. Apex held their attention for awhile, then eventually a new thing came along to draw focus.
This was part of it for my friend group. Everyone I played with jumped off to that, and I was left trying to solo with an extremely underwhelming battle pass. I know they're trying to do more purposeful and meaty updates, but the slow cadence of them isn't helping either.
 

Whompa

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,254
I wonder if this is partially due to all the contracts with the Twitch streamers expiring and them going back to the games they usually played.
 

S t e l l a R

Member
Oct 27, 2017
364
Turkey
I dropped Fortnite long ago and I'll only return to the game if they introduce some form of "classic mode" which resembles season 1&2 era map and items. (Probably not gonna happen.) But to me, one thing that it's still at mind blowingly ahead of the competition is their attention to detail to character skins and other cosmetic items. Apex, on the other hand, seems like underestimated it's potential and went lazy on skins and other minor cosmetics if EA and Respawn want to keep their game always fresh they need to hire specific designers just for that department.
 

Nome

Designer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,425
NYC
All BR games have like zero depth to them. You just run around and shoot people. The only exception is fortnite because the building has a crazy skill ceiling. In the absence of deep gameplay to improve at the external rewards are all that are there to keep ya going
Not necessarily! Depth isn't about skill, it's about decisions--and not just the number of decisions available, but the quality of them and how impactful they are.

There's a lot of intricacy to decisionmaking in BR games, from macro-level stuff like what route you want to take to get from A to B, to micro-level decisions like whether you should smoke before you heal. This is really pronounced in a game like PUBG where the map is much larger, mobility is limited, and lethality is high so there's always a clear cause-effect relationship between your decisions and their consequences..

Apex is kind of the opposite to PUBG on all of the above, where they really overindex on micro-level decisions and there's not much strategy per match. So this leads to really exciting, crunchy moment-to-moment gameplay but limited variability between sessions, and in the long term, this means your matches aren't going to be as memorable or interesting. Ironically, this is the same issue they had with both Titanfall 1 and 2.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,544
do you remember how long ago we found out about L-Star?
"where is L-Star?" - every week since then
Of course - a developer just has to live with that. The issue with giving absolutely no information is fans have no choice but to constantly speculate. Most fans understand that delays happen, so long as the communication is competent, and a minority will always be incredibly obnoxious. Here everyone is left in the dark. Don't know what is coming. Don't know when it is coming. Don't know how much is coming.