Polygon: CDPR responds to sexualized trans advertisement in CyberPunk 2077 (Read Staff Post Before Posting)

[Cordy]

Just read this entire thread (phew) and can't help noticing something.

Almost every single person here (and on Twitter, from what I've seen) who identifies themselves as trans is unhappy with this. At best they're ambivalent. I saw a few who said something along the lines of "I could like this if it wasn't coming from a developer that has already pissed me off with their tweets." I saw maybe two who were unambiguously cool with it.

Meanwhile there's a veritable avalanche of people who have not identified themselves as trans (some of them could be of course, but I don't think it's a stretch to guess that the overwhelming majority of them are cis) saying what a good explanation this is and how everything makes sense now and how they knew it all along and everyone was jumping to conclusions and... you get the idea.

Click to shrink...

See...

As a black man from the South this sorta reminds me of the racism stuff. I don't want someone white coming up to me saying something isn't racist when I've been seeing racism and the Confederate flag my entire life. That's not gonna cut it. In this case, in the beginning of the thread I said "ok I see what they're going for, it's fine" from my POV but that's before I saw those who identify as trans respond. At that moment I looked at the situation and just stepped out because it's not my place and if they're hurt and upset by this then hey I'm going with how they respond to it because it's them. I get it now. There's just certain things that we don't know given we aren't those who are impacted by it so we as people should take their word for it.

 

[Gestault]

If a PR event were set up for something like Bioshock Infinite and featured anti-Chinese or anti-black propaganda posters out in the open, I would expect a major component of that PR presentation to be to contextualize that stuff. Particularly if the company had, for example, a history of putting out bigoted social media communications and had left the issue open like an open wound.

I'm perfectly willing to adjust my feelings about the game content when I have a more holistic picture of it all, but I think the promotional cycle is pretty indefensible at this point (re: this specific subject). I have the impression that the few insights into the subject we have had to be prompted by media.

 

[Kyubajin]

Never understood what the problem with showing LGBT characters in games is, specially if it's mature only games. Why should anyone care how you look, what your sexual preference is or how you dress?

 

[Deleted member 5549]

They literally said "...but what do I know, I'm just a faggot, right?". That's not just implying but straight up acting like the other person said it. They also admitted to trying to bait people and got warned for it. So...

Click to shrink...

missed that part. Sorry!

 

[Hucast]

I feel like the game is going to have a very fucked up and dark vibe to it.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

missed that part. Sorry!

Click to shrink...

Lol, what are you saying sorry for. Got nothing against you, by the way.

 

[Kyuuji]

Wow.

Click to shrink...

"POISON - DO NOT TOUCH"

About the drink that appears to allow you to switch sex, that is named after chromosome and manticore - the beast made of parts of other creatures bodies.

 

[Gestault]

They literally said "...but what do I know, I'm just a faggot, right?". That's not just implying but straight up acting like the other person said it. They also admitted to trying to bait people and got warned for it. So...

Click to shrink...

I feel like there's a language barrier here. That phrasing doesn't accuse another person of having called them that, it's something you say to spell out that you are knowledgeable on the subject. And that exchange was about whether a movie was homophobic.

i.e., two people disagreeing about a building layout, and one of them gets flustered and ends their comment with "...but what do I know, I'm just a structural engineer, right?" They're not accusing the other person of having called them a structural engineer.

 

[Steak]

It looks like an area that has it's own entrance, so people probably won't get random glances of the poster. There are other extreme advertisement there as well (3 mouthed lady) so I'd say that puts it right in the context of exploitation.

Click to shrink...

I don't think you can put a poster with a 3 mouthed lady in the same category as a poster where a focus of the graphic design is that a woman has a penis. The subject of one doesn't exist in real life. The subject of the other is a marginalised group of people that have had to deal with that kind of presentation in media for years.

 

[Kinthey]

I don't think you can put a poster with a 3 mouthed lady in the same category as a poster where a focus of the graphic design is that a woman has a penis. The subject of one doesn't exist in real life. The subject of the other is a marginalised group of people that have had to deal with that kind of presentation in media for years.

Click to shrink...

The three mouth poster is a hypersexualization of a women. That issue certainly exists in real life

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I feel like there's a language barrier here. That phrasing doesn't accuse another person of having called them that, it's something you say to spell out that you are knowledgeable on the subject. And that exchange was about whether media was homophobic.

i.e., two people disagreeing about a building layout, and one of them gets flustered and ends their comment with "...but what do I know, I'm just a structural engineer, right?" They're not accusing the other person of having called them a structural engineer.

Click to shrink...

For crying out loud, they admitted to it. "I gave it a shot, it didn't work out as well as I thought. whoops! :)". Maybe read their posts before defending them. Seriously, can we just stop with this? We aren't mods, this is dumb.

 

[Deleted member 47843]

I feel like the game is going to have a very fucked up and dark vibe to it.

Click to shrink...

I mean it's a game about a dystopian future where capitalism ran a muck and huge corporations control everything with a hyper focus on physical enhancements which lead to more objectification of people. It would be weird if it wasn't a fucked up and dark vibe as it should be showing the hyper objectification/monetization of everything. Things should be offensive, as they say in their response, as greedy corporations objectifying everything to make more profits should lead to lots of things decent people should find offensive. So of course people will find various things offensive, because they're decent people and should be finding it offensive. That's the point. Though I get the skepticism some have from those past tweets etc.

 

[Kyuuji]

The three mouth poster is a hypersexualization of a women. That issue certainly exists in real life

Click to shrink...

What do you think about the poster in question and about the theme of the thread in general?

 

[Hucast]

I mean it's a game about a dystopian future where capitalism ran a muck and huge corporations control everything. It would be weird if it wasn't a fucked up and dark vibe as it should be showing the hyper objectification/monetization of everything. Things should be offensive, as they say in their response, as greedy corporations objectifying everything to make more profits should lead to lots of things decent people should find offensive. So of course people will find various things offensive, because they're decent people and should be finding it offensive. That's the point. Though I get the skepticism some have from those past tweets etc.

Click to shrink...

I agree.

 

[lowmelody]

Wow.

Click to shrink...

Fuck this. This isn't brave or thought provoking it's cynical co-opting of harmful stereotypes repackaged to sell a vidya game.

 

[Kinthey]

What do you think about the poster in question and about the theme of the thread in general?

Click to shrink...

I can see why people have issues with it but it also seems like CDPR has put more thought behind it. If that pans out is hard to judge until one has seen the full game

 

[Kyuuji]

I mean it's a game about a dystopian future where capitalism ran a muck and huge corporations control everything. It would be weird if it wasn't a fucked up and dark vibe as it should be showing the hyper objectification/monetization of everything. Things should be offensive, as they say in their response, as greedy corporations objectifying everything to make more profits should lead to lots of things decent people should find offensive. So of course people will find various things offensive, because they're decent people and should be finding it offensive. That's the point. Though I get the skepticism some have from those past tweets etc.

Click to shrink...

"Things should be offensive" is a little weak as a line has to be drawn on how offensive it is because this is fiction and not a real dystopia.

So someone is drawing that line and deciding on who it's alright to offend and how. It seems transphobic stuff is fair game so I'm wondering what other shit people here would be alright being in the game (remembering that your scale is from 0 to literally any fucked up thing in the world).

 

[Deleted member 47843]

"Things should be offensive" is a little weak as a line has to be drawn on how offensive it is because this is fiction and not a real dystopia.

So someone is drawing that line and deciding on who it's alright to offend and how. It seems transphobic stuff is fair game so I'm wondering what other shit people here would be alright being in game (remembering that your scale is from 0 to literally any fucked up thing in the world).

Click to shrink...

Personally I'm very big on freedom of expression in art, outside of outright hate speech, trying to incite violence etc. I'm also totally supportive of others disagreeing with that and wanting things reigned in, boycotting things that offend them etc. To each, their own is my motto. Bigots aside, people can hold whatever views and stances on things they like--and similarly artists can attempt to evoke whatever emotions they like--including trying to evoke feelings of offense, disgust, revulsion etc.. I've never cared enough to try to change people's minds on things like what offends them or not or what should be deemed ok in art/media etc., so I'm not going to engage in those kid of arguments. I shared my two cents, and that's all I have to offer.

 

[Deleted member 32374]

That article is so fucking good and articulates some of my problems with the in-game ad and the artist's justifications/intentions.



Then they need to fucking show it! Gaming "journalism" is a joke when major outlets like Polygon and Eurogamer won't call them out and just interview and report passively. Someone get a trans person to sit down with the artist and CDPR and really ask the tough questions.

Click to shrink...

I don't have anything to add, just want to tell Era that the first article really clearly lays out the issues that many people have and addresses the entire situation surrounding this really well. If you are not sure why some people are still upset, this will help you see.

https://www.dailydot.com/irl/cyberpunk-2077-transphobic-ad/

The above link is just a link to the first article the post by SapphiCine , I just wanted to add it again, so people can see it again.

 

[Dphex]

I feel like the game is going to have a very fucked up and dark vibe to it.

Click to shrink...

as it should! this is not Kirby´s Dreamland

 

[Kyuuji]

Personally I'm very big on freedom of expression in art, outside of outright hate speech, trying to incite violence etc. I'm also totally supportive of others disagreeing with that and wanting things reigned in, boycotting things that offend them etc. To each, their own is my motto. Bigots aside, people can hold whatever views and stances on things they like--and similarly artists can attempt to evoke whatever emotions they like--including trying to evoke feelings of offense, disgust, revulsion etc.. I've never cared enough to try to change people's minds on things like what offends them or not or what should be deemed ok in art/media etc., so I'm not going to engage in those kid of arguments. I shared my two cents, and that's all I have to offer.

Click to shrink...

As usual people shy away when you ask them directly what other shit they'd find acceptable in a game under the "it's supposed to be shit" excuse.

You've out and out excused this as being alright because "things should be offensive" so why is it so hard to suggest what other offensive shit you'd be alright with in the game.

It's a weak excuse that buckles immediately when it's asked to be expanded upon.

 

[MonsterMech]

Their explanation makes sense for now. It remains to be seen how the full game will hold up to this explanation.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

One of the most incredible things about the explanation we've gotten is that nowhere in it does it explain how the imagery used in the ad ties into the product it's supposed to be selling. Like, what is this? Is it just a soda? Is it some sort of beverage with, uh, let's say side effects? Is that the reason they've used the imagery in question, not just the model but the name and the advertising tagline? These are all actual questions that people who are doing advertising for a living will at least be asking themselves in the process of doing an ad, and "this is supposed to be jarring" is still a pretty shallow look at the discussion.

That could be some context that would help us understand how we're supposed to understand the presentation of this imagery in the game. It would not be enough on its own, though, as per this line:

This idea that people will always misunderstand intent is totally whitewashing the actual signals sent by the work. Which, and I don't mean this as an insult to you, but comes across as brainless and defeatist. We have a situation where a group that's dehumanized in the modern context is, so far as has been presented to us, only being further dehumanized in the game along exactly the same lines as present day. That's not subverting a stereotype, that's megaphoning it.

Click to shrink...

Is the ad saying that whatever's in the can will make us more like the model? Is having the can supposed to make people like the model want to be around us? Is the person in the ad supposed to be well-known and possibly well-liked spokesperson or celebrity, not just a random model with (to our modern-day society's eyes) an unusual body type?


Like, to put it in another way, people don't sell car wax because car wax is a valuable item in itself, they sell it on the promise that it will help get your car clean and shiny; ads don't just sell a product but try to sell a use for the product. What is the product that they're selling with this ad?





To the one in the back who said "NVidia graphics cards!" congratulations, you've passed the class. They're selling modern-day tech with a fetishized, objectified character.

 

[Steak]

The three mouth poster is a hypersexualization of a women. That issue certainly exists in real life

Click to shrink...

Both posters are hypersexualisations of women. Except the "extreme" part of one doesn't exist irl and the "extreme" part of the other is a transphobic trope.

 

[Nightwing123]

Voodoo Boys and Animals are two gangs, Poor Man was name / nickname of some character. This is just in one out of 6 districts + outskirts. There is whole district to where people from Asian background has settled down to. I bet dominant gang in that part of city will be some take on Yakuza.

Other than that isn't it tad large generalization to say that majority non-white persons in Night City are gang members and criminals?

Click to shrink...

I mean they turned the Voodoo Boys which was a mostly white gang obsessed with Haitian culture into a mostly Black gang. The fact V also mocks their dialect also does not help. I'm definitely not trusting these people to give us respectful representation of minorities.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

I mean they turned the Voodoo Boys which was a mostly white gang obsessed with Haitian culture into a mostly Black gang. The fact the V mocks their dialect also does not help. I'm definitely not trusting these people to give us respectful representation of minorities.

Click to shrink...

I think the comparisons with Bioshock Infinite are quite interesting because that was a game that used intentionally, overtly racist imagery to try to criticize revisionist/whitewashed views of American history and culture -- and then completely failed at that goal when the larger point they communicated is that violently opposing racism is just as as bad as racism but at least quantum mechanics is cool and ok now that's established we're going to sexualize your daughter.

As I said elsewhere, the Voodoo boys could be an excellent criticism of the sort of culture that Dear White People shows off in the blackface montage during its credits sequence, the kind of privileged white people who fetishize black skin, culture, mannerisms, etc. without ever respecting the rights, history, or culture of the people who come from that tradition. In the gamebook that's basically how they're described. The problem is that if the game doesn't communicate that the voodoo boys are basically all white kids, then the context needed to understand them is only metatextual and turns them into a racist stereotype.

 

[Messofanego]

Their explanation makes sense for now. It remains to be seen how the full game will hold up to this explanation.

Click to shrink...

Cis people can safely wait for the final game while trans people gotta deal with the repercussions of the offense until then. Seems unfair. Whole thread worth reading.

Innes McKendrick (trans videogame programmer, worked on No Man's Sky)

 

[Tovarisc]

I mean they turned the Voodoo Boys which was a mostly white gang obsessed with Haitian culture into a mostly Black gang. The fact the V mocks their dialect also does not help. I'm definitely not trusting these people to give us respectful representation of minorities.

Click to shrink...

In other CP77 thread this interview with Pondsmith was linked. It has bit about Voodoo Boys as they talk about gangs in the Night City. Pondsmith opens up background why they went with them to this direction. Embed is from correct time spot of video.

https://youtu.be/d8lnrAqH0mk?t=970

Yes, it's YongYea. I don't care. This is legit interview.

 

[Fjordson]

I mean they turned the Voodoo Boys which was a mostly white gang obsessed with Haitian culture into a mostly Black gang. The fact the V mocks their dialect also does not help. I'm definitely not trusting these people to give us respectful representation of minorities.

Click to shrink...

Said this in another thread, but V mocking their pronunciation is so weird. Wouldn't Night City be a crazy mix of cultures, making different accents a routine occurrence? Why are the Voodoo Boys and their speech so alien to a mercenary like V? Also, apparently their dialogue is all subtitled phonetically. It's like the game is really trying to emphasize how "weird" they talk.

 

[Gestault]

I mean they turned the Voodoo Boys which was a mostly white gang obsessed with Haitian culture into a mostly Black gang. The fact the V mocks their dialect also does not help. I'm definitely not trusting these people to give us respectful representation of minorities.

Click to shrink...

It hasn't made me feel great about CDPR's take on this setting that something that was previously an implicit criticism of mainstream white culture appropriating (and wresting control of) other cultures has been changed into what it is here. I've seen so little of merit come from that change that, and I say this seriously: My fear is that the creators may just prefer building their world with non-whites as "deserving" targets of violence. Having the V character mocking NPC ethnicity (without contextual criticism of the act) surely doesn't help with that.

I will 1000% change that opinion if I see for myself that there's merit behind it, but this change skeeved me out. Partly because I know it changes who you're mandated to inflict harm on in the gameplay. And I say this aware of the racial/ethnic backgrounds of CDPR team members.

 

[Kyuuji]

Messofanego people are lazy and I think it's a really nice thread so going to list it out below as it's not long.

 

[MonsterMech]

Cis people can safely wait for the final game while trans people gotta deal with the repercussions of the offense until then. Seems unfair. Whole thread worth reading.

Innes McKendrick (trans videogame programmer, worked on No Man's Sky)

Click to shrink...

I get it, and I'm in no way defending CDPR.

But I'm a firm believer of giving people a chance, even after prior fuckups.

As a black man, if I didn't give the benefit of the doubt I'd literally have no entertainment media to consume.

 

[Apollo]

That's a really good tweet thread that points out one of the most frustrating things about situations like this. Trans people have to relitigate these discussions over and over and over while cis people so often trip over themselves trying to explain why it's okay and we shouldn't be upset.

 

[Nightwing123]

In other CP77 thread this interview with Pondsmith was linked. It has bit about Voodoo Boys as they talk about gangs in the Night City. Pondsmith opens up background why they went with them to this direction. Embed is from correct time spot of video.

https://youtu.be/d8lnrAqH0mk?t=970

Yes, it's YongYea. I don't care. This is legit interview.

Click to shrink...

Is this supposed to make feel better about minority representation in this game because as PoC it doesn't, hell if anything this makes me More worried about how PoC are going to portrayed if they view this as postive/non-offensive representation. Nothing says positive representation than heaving your dialect mocked by the main character.

 

[Heartimecia]

Is this supposed to make feel better about minority representation in this game because as PoC it doesn't hell if anything this makes me More worried about how PoC are going to portrayed if they view this a postive/non-offensive representation. Nothing says positive representation than heaving your dialect mocked by the main character.

Click to shrink...

Agreed. Like...again, this doesn't exist in a vacuum, videogames have been particularly awful at representing people of color. This might be positive rep if it were differently but as a brown person I'm like...no thank you? We aren't even humanized in games yet? Let's do that before we keep perpetuating the same shit that's been thrown at us.

 

[JCG]

Is supposed to make feel better about minority representation in this game because as PoC it doesn't hell if anything this makes me More worried about how PoC are going to portrayed if they view this a postive/non-offensive representation. Nothing says positive representation than heaving your dialect mocked by the main character.

Click to shrink...

I think Austin from Waypoint also mentioned the religious angle and the depiction of many normal black people in that game district as a positive in terms of what they saw in the new demo.

Unlike what is currently happening with the poor depiction of trans individuals as seen in the ad, it seems there is already more nuance to the portrayal of this gang in particular and black people than just that one line.

Which is still a bad line, mind you, so don't get me wrong. It doesn't erase any of the other issues, of course, but it is a less one-sided situation.

 

[Steak]

I get it, and I'm in no way defending CDPR.

But I'm a firm believer of giving people a chance, even after prior fuckups.

As a black man, if I didn't give the benefit of the doubt I'd literally have no entertainment media to consume.

Click to shrink...

But surely after giving the benefit of the doubt multiple times you'd stop right? Like this isn't the first time CD Projekt have done bad by trans people. It feels like cis people are willing to overlook as much transphobia as is convenient for them, just as white people can ignore racism for their own convenience.

 

[Alucrid]

the dailydot piece is good. this is pretty disheartening

Update 11:59pm CT, June 13: When reached for comment, CD Projekt Red directed the Daily Dot to the Polygon coverage and declined to comment further.

Click to shrink...

since i imagine they could have a more productive conversation with that writer than, say, a journalist who's probably pressed for time on the E3 show floor / appointment. sadly it seems that they hope it gets swept under the rug with their eurogamer / polygon statements or maybe when pressed with more detailed questions they don't have any good responses.

 

[Tovarisc]

Is this supposed to make feel better about minority representation in this game because as PoC it doesn't hell if anything this makes me More worried about how PoC are going to portrayed if they view this a postive/non-offensive representation. Nothing says positive representation than heaving your dialect mocked by the main character.

Click to shrink...

Why I linked that was to provide more context to decisions studio has made with Voodoo Boys gang. My intention wasn't to make you feel better or worse about minority representation.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

the dailydot piece is good. this is pretty disheartening



since i imagine they could have a more productive conversation with that writer than, say, a journalist who's probably pressed for time on the E3 show floor / appointment. sadly it seems that they hope it gets swept under the rug with their eurogamer / polygon statements or maybe when pressed with more detailed questions they don't have any good responses.

Click to shrink...

Yep, seeing that I felt more certain CDPR knows exactly what they are doing. They don't want to deal with real journalists or trans people.

 

[Mesoian]

I get it, and I'm in no way defending CDPR.

But I'm a firm believer of giving people a chance, even after prior fuckups.

As a black man, if I didn't give the benefit of the doubt I'd literally have no entertainment media to consume.

Click to shrink...

I guess the question then becomes, how many chances do you want to give them?

Because this is not their first rodeo.

 

[Deleted member 47843]

As usual people shy away when you ask them directly what other shit they'd find acceptable in a game under the "it's supposed to be shit" excuse.

You've out and out excused this as being alright because "things should be offensive" so why is it so hard to suggest what other offensive shit you'd be alright with in the game.

It's a weak excuse that buckles immediately when it's asked to be expanded upon.

Click to shrink...

I said I'm fine with anything deemed offensive, hate speech and trying to incite violence aside, as long as it's done for artistic purpose. Meaning it's meant to offend and show how fucked us things are/can be and isn't done to make fun of marginalized people in a hateful way to make money off bigots.

So I'm fine with something like this game showing how fucked up corporate appropriation/monetization/objectification is in these kind of ways as that's naturally going to involve tropes about (if you want more specific examples) transsexuals, homosexuals, racial/ethnic/religious minorities, sexualization of minors, extreme violence against marginalized populations and so on as those are the exact things that happen when the moneyed elite dominate and exploit society for monetary gain as depicted in this dystopian setting.

Again, I'm strongly supportive of artistic freedom of expression and free speech with exceptions being clear hate speech and attempts to incite violence. Others seem to want a heavily-regulated world with the aim of minimizing offense to marginalized people, even when its artistic in nature and meant to show how fucked up treatment of those people by those in power and corporations.

That's not a viewpoint I can ever get behind. I'll always vote left and fight for equality, but equality doesn't mean a world where no one is offended.

This thread has finally made me realize this site just isn't for me and isn't a place I want to be associated with, well that and all the poorly-moderated console warrior nonsense. Respond if you want, but hitting reply is the last time I'll view this site so I won't see it. Peace.

 

[MonsterMech]

But surely after giving the benefit of the doubt multiple times you'd stop right? Like this isn't the first time CD Projekt have done bad by trans people. It feels like cis people are willing to overlook as much transphobia as is convenient for them, just as white people can ignore racism for their own convenience.

Click to shrink...

Here's the thing. When it comes to black people CDPR should have been canceled a long time ago.

I understand the outrage at this instance but in reality if we were all protesting CDPR due to their social transgressions, we wouldn't even be talking about this game.

I've gone through 3 Witcher games without any black representation in them.

And I had to swallow that fact and give them the BOD in hopes they fix it in the future.

So this isn't a case of me just being Cis and insensitive to those that aren't. This is what I have to do literally every day just to exist.

I'm honestly not sure where the line should be drawn. But I know from my existence that my line has to have some flexibility, otherwise I'd have no games to play.

I guess the question then becomes, how many chances do you want to give them?

Because this is not their first rodeo.

Click to shrink...

Well I had already told myself this was their last chance to have some reasonable non-white representation in their games, so I guess this is their last chance for me.

 

[Nightwing123]

Here's the thing. When it comes to black people CDPR should have been canceled a long time ago.

I understand the outrage at this instance but in reality if we were all protesting CDPR due to their social transgressions, we wouldn't even be talking about this game.

I've gone through 3 Witcher games without any black representation in them.

And I had to swallow that fact and give them the BOD in hopes they fix it in the future.

So this isn't a case of me just being Cis and insensitive to those that aren't. This is what I have to do literally every day just to exist.

I'm honestly not sure where the line should be drawn. But I know from my existence that my line has to have some flexibility, otherwise I'd have no games to play.


Well I had already told myself this was their last chance to have some reasonable non-white representation in their games, so I guess this is their last chance for me.

Click to shrink...

I remember they also had a Latino character speak in stereotypically and offensive say a while back. So that's already multiple instances of questionable minority representation in the game. Sadly I fully expect a lot of people and reviewers handwave these issues.

I want to be optimistic about this game but I'm not going to be shocked if this ends up being another Bioshock Infinite to me.

 

[Hey Please]

Just read this entire thread (phew) and can't help noticing something.

Almost every single person here (and on Twitter, from what I've seen) who identifies themselves as trans is unhappy with this. At best they're ambivalent. I saw a few who said something along the lines of "I could like this if it wasn't coming from a developer that has already pissed me off with their tweets." I saw maybe two who were unambiguously cool with it.

Meanwhile there's a veritable avalanche of people who have not identified themselves as trans (some of them could be of course, but I don't think it's a stretch to guess that the overwhelming majority of them are cis) saying what a good explanation this is and how everything makes sense now and how they knew it all along and everyone was jumping to conclusions and... you get the idea.

I get the distinct impression many of the latter group were desperate for any reason that would let them buy and enjoy the shiny new digital toy without that guilty little notion that it might clash with your values. To the point of ignoring the voices of those being portrayed in this instance.

For a forum that claims to be so very progressive and concerned with the perspective of vulnerable minorities, this is, shall we say... maybe not the best look?

Click to shrink...

I think the core of the issue is that that people who are praising the explanation most likely never bothered reading the Daily Dot article. In vacuum, I would have praised the artist as well but after reading all the sources in the OP, my take is the same as yours.

One thing to remember is that for all the options this game touts as well as providing rationale for the commodification of trans-gender like regular cis gendered ones, it literally fails to acknowledge their existence at the very start of the game by giving player a binary choice (whether or not gender can be modified some time later in the game is another matter entirely). This game is clearly implying that while transgender folks may be more accepted and consequently must suffer equal opportunity commercial exploitation based on their gender, it is NOT NATURAL. Let that fucking sink in a game which revolves around body modification, around TRANS humanism.

In the greater scheme, this essentially is why minorities are used to playing games in the visage of majority despite being told that there is no bigotry. The market and majority have crafted a system where minorities are perhaps not explicitly and unlawfully discriminated against but they will never be acknowledged as equals when it comes to representation. If that is not deep seated cultural bigotry, I do not know what is.

 

[Last Jon Standing]

First of all, I want to make it clear beforehand that I'm a middle-class cishet white male, so my opinion comes from a tower of privilege and I'm completely okay with whomever feels like dismissing it or enlightening me on whatever I may be getting wrong. I'm here to learn, and grateful for it.

That said, I think Cyberpunk 2077's hypersexualized, objectifying and dehumanizing ads would be completely okay in an ideal world, a world in which people would look at them and instantly recognize them for the horrible things they are. A world in which people would be disgusted to hear slurs being used against LGBTQ+ people, which wouldn't tolerate prejudice against them.

Alas, that's not the world we live in, and it probably won't be for a really long time.

The world we live in has LGBTQ+ people getting killed for being what they are. Losing jobs. Being shunned by family and friends. Being called a myriad of awful names. Getting beaten by loved ones, by so-called friends, by acquaintances, by strangers. Being denied of basic human rights. The vast majority of people, regardless of country or culture, looks at them and sees them either as something to be eradicated or as the butt of some joke, something to be hated and laughed at.

There are people that still refuse to treat others by their pronouns of choice. It doesn't cost them anything, it doesn't belittle them in any way, yet they refuse to do it.

So no, I don't believe we live in a world where most people will understand those ads, regardless of how good their creators' intentions might be. The vast majority of people will look at those ads and have their prejudices reinforced, whether consciously or not. The way things are currently, I think CDPR could handle such content in a way that raises awareness and sends a clearer message.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

I said I'm fine with anything deemed offensive, hate speech and trying to incite violence aside, as long as it's done for artistic purpose. Meaning it's meant to offend and show how fucked us things are/can be and isn't done to make fun of marginalized people in a hateful way to make money off bigots.

So I'm fine with something like this game showing how fucked up corporate appropriation/monetization/objectification is in these kind of ways as that's naturally going to involve tropes about (if you want more specific examples) transsexuals, homosexuals, racial/ethnic/religious minorities, sexualization of minors, extreme violence against marginalized populations and so on as those are the exact things that happen when the moneyed elite dominate and exploit society for monetary gain as depicted in this dystopian setting.

Again, I'm strongly supportive of artistic freedom of expression and free speech with exceptions being clear hate speech and attempts to incite violence. Others seem to want a heavily-regulated world with the aim of minimizing offense to marginalized people, even when its artistic in nature and meant to show how fucked up treatment of those people by those in power and corporations.

That's not a viewpoint I can ever get behind. I'll always vote left and fight for equality, but equality doesn't mean a world where no one is offended.

This thread has finally made me realize this site just isn't for me and isn't a place I want to be associated with, well that and all the poorly-moderated console warrior nonsense. Respond if you want, but hitting reply is the last time I'll view this site so I won't see it. Peace.

Click to shrink...

byefelicia.gif

No one, I've seen, is asking for a "heavily-regulated world". What some of us want is for is shit like what this game appears to be doing properly scrutinized by the gaming press and big developers/publishers like CDPR not given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to LGBTQ+ representation. Also for them to be held accountable when they fuck up.

First of all, I want to make it clear beforehand that I'm a middle-class cishet white male, so my opinion comes from a tower of privilege and I'm completely okay with whomever feels like dismissing it or enlightening me on whatever I may be getting wrong. I'm here to learn, and grateful for it.

That said, I think Cyberpunk 2077's hypersexualized, objectifying and dehumanizing ads would be completely okay in an ideal world, a world in which people would look at them and instantly recognize them for the horrible things they are. A world in which people would be disgusted to hear slurs being used against LGBTQ+ people, which wouldn't tolerate prejudice against them.

Alas, that's not the world we live in, and it probably won't be for a really long time.

The world we live in has LGBTQ+ people getting killed for being what they are. Losing jobs. Being shunned by family and friends. Being called a myriad of awful names. Getting beaten by loved ones, by so-called friends, by acquaintances, by strangers. Being denied of basic human rights. The vast majority of people, regardless of country or culture, looks at them and sees them either as something to be eradicated or as the butt of some joke, something to be hated and laughed at.

There are people that still refuse to treat others by their pronouns of choice. It doesn't cost them anything, it doesn't belittle them in any way, yet they refuse to do it.

So no, I don't believe we live in a world where most people will understand those ads, regardless of how good their creators' intentions might be. The vast majority of people will look at those ads and have their prejudices reinforced, whether consciously or not. The way things are currently, I think CDPR could handle such content in a way that raises awareness and sends a clearer message.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, the forum needs more people like you. It's not so hard for cis het people to understand the plights and perspective of the trans and greater LGBTQ+ community.

 

[Kyuuji]

First of all, I want to make it clear beforehand that I'm a middle-class cishet white male, so my opinion comes from a tower of privilege and I'm completely okay with whomever feels like dismissing it or enlightening me on whatever I may be getting wrong. I'm here to learn, and grateful for it.

That said, I think Cyberpunk 2077's hypersexualized, objectifying and dehumanizing ads would be completely okay in an ideal world, a world in which people would look at them and instantly recognize them for the horrible things they are. A world in which people would be disgusted to hear slurs being used against LGBTQ+ people, which wouldn't tolerate prejudice against them.

Alas, that's not the world we live in, and it probably won't be for a really long time.

The world we live in has LGBTQ+ people getting killed for being what they are. Losing jobs. Being shunned by family and friends. Being called a myriad of awful names. Getting beaten by loved ones, by so-called friends, by acquaintances, by strangers. Being denied of basic human rights. The vast majority of people, regardless of country or culture, looks at them and sees them either as something to be eradicated or as the butt of some joke, something to be hated and laughed at.

There are people that still refuse to treat others by their pronouns of choice. It doesn't cost them anything, it doesn't belittle them in any way, yet they refuse to do it.

So no, I don't believe we live in a world where most people will understand those ads, regardless of how good their creators' intentions might be. The vast majority of people will look at those ads and have their prejudices reinforced, whether consciously or not. The way things are currently, I think CDPR could handle such content in a way that raises awareness and sends a clearer message.

Click to shrink...

That introduction is one hell of a way to get a post read. It's not much, but it shows respect and understanding of the topic. Which makes it clear why it's so infrequently seen.

A really considered and measured post, thank you not only for taking the time to write it, but also for taking the time to consider the perspective of those affected.

 

[Giever]

"POISON - DO NOT TOUCH"

About the drink that appears to allow you to switch sex, that is named after chromosome and manticore - the beast made of parts of other creatures bodies.

Click to shrink...

Not sure if they got this info specifically from CDPR, but the Eurogamer article says:

The poster in question is an advert for Chromanticore, a regular cola, one of many fictional drink brands in the game.

Click to shrink...

So it may just be a regular drink and not any kind of sex change beverage or whatever.

 

[Chromie]

As a black man, if I didn't give the benefit of the doubt I'd literally have no entertainment media to consume.

Click to shrink...

That's all we can ever do unfortunately,

I feel like stuff about sexuality gets more attention and causes an uproar than race.