• Reminder: Scheduled maintenance will begin on the hour.
  • The site will be down for scheduled maintenance this Friday the 24th at 2AM PST / 5AM EST / 9AM UTC while we perform a software update. We expect this process to take up to 5 hours. Thank you for your understanding and patience. New features will be included.
  • Community Spotlight sign-ups are open once again for both Gaming and EtcetEra Hangout threads! If you want to shine a spotlight on your community, please register now.

[Polygon] It may not be possible to save Fallout 76

Oct 26, 2017
579
I believe Fallout 4 got its official roadmap in March 2016. I’m expecting a roadmap for 76 in the same time frame.

If we reach May, the six month anniversary, without a solid roadmap, I think it’s pretty fair to say that the game is dead.

At the very least it’ll be $10 by then.
Wow they've been dead silent on this? Surprisingly, I'm not surprised since Bethesda seems to not care most of the time.
 

Vex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,909
pretend it never happened.
They will NEVER, EVER get away with this. They can't just walk away from it now. No one will ever trust them again with the Fallout IP. Hell, I think this might even affect TES VI's sales as well. They are absolutely FUCKED.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,607
This really, really underscores my point, hahah. Initial reception is 80% of mindshare; "you only get one chance to make a first impression" and all that. There are few second chances in this crowded business.
I think the point is that Publishers don't really care about the public perception, as long as people are buying and playing the product, which they are with TESO, and they weren't before. Ultimately it doesn't really matter the perception of randoms is, it's a F2P game, the players are the customers. I'm sure they'd like it to be better, but they are still releasing content for it, so I'm sure they're satisfied.
 

Massicot

RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,437
United States
I have no idea of the direction of this game going forward. They launch the game with the only thing to do after completing the story was to launch nukes over and over (and silo runs are not very fun at all imo), and instead of a roadmap outlining the inaccessible Vaults that dot the map to tease the players, we're getting a PVP focused game mode in a month? PVP felt like a complete afterthought so I don't understand a mode focused on purely that as the first major 'content' update.

This game could have so easily been saved with a proper roadmap, LIKE EVERY BASIC LIVE GAAS DOES, and proper resources but it truely does feel like the game was handed to a skeleton Live crew.

Their bug fixing priority is completely out of whack and inefficient. The game is woefully unbalanced and they nerf/buff as if none of them actually play the game. In 3 months they have achieved little in actually making more than a tiny % of weapons and skills viable because of their boneheaded enemy resistance design.

Worst of all, there is 1 end game activity that is insanely unbalanced and inconsistent. Not to mention the half thought out pvp and workshop system. With the inconsistent loot drops, (3 star legendaries and scorch queen beast dropping fuck all loot, you risk your server crashing at any moment losing all the resources/time/workshops you invest because they STILL haven't stabilized them. A situation made alot worse by the dupers who've run rampant breaking the in-game economy. Then to double down on their worst fucking feature and announce a new PVP mode instead of pve content was just so braindead. A mode where dupers will be allowed to bring their broken shit INTO IT because they can't detect them.

It's just insane how much wasted potential this game had. These idiots thought having poor community managers on Reddit constantly saying, we hear you and have passed on the feedback to the developers, would shut people up for more than a month.

They created an inventory simulator in the apocalypse. I wouldn't be surprised if upper management has just written it off and made them mostly move on.

From a business perspective, the thing I don't understand at all is their Atom Shop priority. Who thought it would be a good idea to offer fucking mailboxes and sleeping bags? What market testing did they do to determine that yes, this is what people want to buy? Meanwhile, basic shit like weapon skins haven't been added at all and are limited to 3 weapons.
Good post.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,607
Bethesda really want to be looking at getting the game onto PSPlus/Xbox Gold/Gamepass as soon as possible to try and get the player count up a little.

You can get a Steam key for £8.99 now.
 
Oct 28, 2017
10,464
i would trust bethesda to fix anything as much as i trust a hungry wolf to carry my baby on its mouth

survival mode promising to be the last (and at last) dumpster fire of the whole lot before people just give up and move on
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,812
I'm all for opinions but I would love to read the justification for giving Fallout 76 any sort of praise.
As a current West Virginian, I think their condensed recreation of the state is really cool, and could have been used in an interesting way.

That’s as far as my own personal praise goes. They absolutely botched everything else about the game in every way imaginable. Every time I play it, I like it considerably less.
 
Oct 27, 2017
609
I think that is going to be a very common strategy going forward. It used to be that any GaaS type of game would get pulled if it bombed out of the gate. But there are multiple examples of games that, through some combination of tweaks or massive sweeping reimagining, became hits long after being written off as dead. Elder Scrolls Online, Rainbow Six Siege, Fortnite, Warframe, even something like Hitman in a way, all wound up succeeding because they invested the time in after release to improve the product.

Now, for 76, the negative PR might just be too much to overcome. And it would take a LOT of smart decision making going forward. But it probably has a long leash, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them pump content and fixes into it for atleast a full year before considering changing things up. The people saying that it'll shut down or go free to play this year are completely out to lunch.
I tend to agree. The game has a fuckload of negative PR, but it also has a decent-sized install base, doesn't it? If it sold decently, and people didn't sell their copies back to Gamestop used, then enough positive buzz will get people to pull it off the shelf. Not to mention future sales, and even if people did sell their copies back to be resold as used, that creates a secondary market of people picking the game up used for cheap, and still getting involved in Beth's microtranstaction ecosystem, which was the entire moneymaking arm of the game to begin with, rather than pure sale dollars.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,389
Is it really that bad? Can't I squeeze in 20-25 hours of dumb combat/exploration fun? Is it worth a shot for around $15?
Yeah you can for sure. Imagine Fallout 4 with only combat and exploration (and some sorta annoying survial mechanics). If that sounds appealing to you, you'll have an alright time with it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,099
I agree. I don’t think BGS has the tools to fix the game. Nearly everything about it is broken in some way. To fix it, they would need to triple the player count, add npcs, completely re-do a huge chunk of the sidequests, rework the PvP system, and redesign large chunks of the map to allow for npc settlements/cities. And all of that is necessary after they fix the performance and major/minor bugs that plague the game. It’s impossible at this point and would basically require a complete remake.

This is all so dissapointing and has completely destroyed any faith I have in BGS as a studio. Fallout is a massive franchise, and 76 will probably be the only AAA title in the Fallout universe for at least ten years, if not more depending on what BGS does after ES:6. The fact that BGS was fine with this shit heap of a game being the last title linked to the franchise for the next decade is just pathetic.
 
Last edited:
Nov 1, 2017
458
Also this, XIV was a technical marvel that just sucked to play. They had to rework the gameplay systems which while time consuming and difficult, is not as bad as needing to spend an ungodly amount of money literally creating a new engine to get the thing to work.
This is kind of misleading... Not saying f76 is better or worse than ffxiv was at launch, but to suggests it was a technical marvel is a tad hyperbolic...I remember 85% of the terrain was just copy pastad
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,094
This is kind of misleading... Not saying f76 is better or worse than ffxiv was at launch, but to suggests it was a technical marvel is a tad hyperbolic...I remember 85% of the terrain was just copy pastad
Copy pasted terrain isn't a technical issue.

I wouldn't call it a marvel either, it was beautiful but it ran like ass for most people too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,942
I really hope the gaming public remembers this mess once the next Beth game comes out, stop ignoring the glaring issues they've had for years and both pre-orders and reviews reflect this fact. If 76 is to be the game that took the rose colored glasses off everyone in regards to Beth games, then it served its purpose.
Yeah but it doesn't work that way if you already enjoy BGS titles.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,085
Germany
So many people and sites talking about the bugs. Am I the only one who find the conceptual design much worse than the bugs?

So many weird design choices this game is made of that I don't find any reason to play it, maybe apart from 'playing something remotely Fallout-esque with a friend online'. And this will definitely never be fixed.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,567
Is it really that bad? Can't I squeeze in 20-25 hours of dumb combat/exploration fun? Is it worth a shot for around $15?
You can. I think the problem is that 20-25 hours of dumb fun is the only thing you can get out of this. And if you never played Fallout 4, it's the superior experience.
 
Oct 28, 2017
358
So many people and sites talking about the bugs. Am I the only one who find the conceptual design much worse than the bugs?

So many weird design choices this game is made of that I don't find any reason to play it, maybe apart from 'playing something remotely Fallout-esque with a friend online'. And this will definitely never be fixed.
My opinion is that even if the game had 0 bugs/glitches and ran perfectly fine, it would still be a pretty bad game.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,194
Yeah you can for sure. Imagine Fallout 4 with only combat and exploration (and some sorta annoying survial mechanics). If that sounds appealing to you, you'll have an alright time with it.
You can. I think the problem is that 20-25 hours of dumb fun is the only thing you can get out of this. And if you never played Fallout 4, it's the superior experience.
Yeah, I think I am ok with this. I'll gladly go back to back to Fallout universe for that price.
 
Dec 27, 2017
1,091
They will NEVER, EVER get away with this. They can't just walk away from it now. No one will ever trust them again with the Fallout IP. Hell, I think this might even affect TES VI's sales as well. They are absolutely FUCKED.
This is a probably dramatic overestimation of the market. Bethesdas's next game will be fine, in all likelihood.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,242
"Unfixable you say?"

"Fuck it, onto the next venture, forget those idiots who dropped 60 on this piece of shit, let's spunk another 50 million up the wall, the fanboys will purchase regardless amirite? bahahahahaha"

Le sigh.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,567
FO4 was a full featured single player game. FO76 is an online game, and you can't release an online game without continual proper support for it. 6 months to announce any new content for an online game that was being sold for full price is a huge mistake. And with all the bad press they are still being silent?
That's a good point. Fallout 4 was feature complete at launch, so waiting 4 months to announce DLC plans wasn't a big deal.

Fallout 76 is a live online game, and we're 3 months in without even a hint of what they're doing for the rest of the year.
 
Nov 1, 2017
458
Copy pasted terrain isn't a technical issue.

I wouldn't call it a marvel either, it was beautiful but it ran like ass for most people too.
I remembering it being a major controversy the team directly had to respond to. Still remember a old show called the bff report that ripped the game to shreds.

Check from 8:30 onwards for the copy pasta segment. I think people forget how big a deal it was.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,476
Germany
This game would not have been good even if it launched without the bugs. It’s just too flawed on a design level. So yeah, this game is never going to get fixed and be great all of a sudden.
 
Oct 27, 2017
170
This is all so dissapointing and has completely destroyed any faith I have in BGS as a studio. Fallout is a massive franchise, and 76 will probably be the only AAA title in the Fallout universe for at least ten years, if not more depending on what BGS does after ES:6. The fact that BGS was fine with this shit heap of a game being the last title linked to the franchise for the next decade is just pathetic.
Are you not jumping to conclusions a bit? My views on Bethesda are definitely lower after how they've handled this game, but them abandoning the franchise would be an amazingly stupid move. Hell, I'm half wondering if Bethesda made this game so bad, people reconsidered their views on Fallout 4 (a bit of a base breaking game when it came out, wasn't it?) and thought, "Yeah, this game is pretty good, actually!" I can see them being quiet on Fallout for maybe a year or so, but with how many people love the franchise, the Fallout 76 controversy will HOPEFULLY spur them to make an awesome game in Fallout 5, or whatever Fallout project they do next.

And if Bethesda really does ditch Fallout and continue to be a self absorbed company who treats their fanbase like children (the "writing an essay so you don't get banned", really?), then is it really that bad that they abandon the franchise?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,095
I am one of those people that put 60+ hours into the game and enjoyed significant portions of that time. I was never an "ignore the haters" person exactly, but I did believe (and still believe now) that there is merit in the game, if you're willing to look for it.

But I'm also in the growing number of people that got into the new year and just kind of... stopped. Right now I'm at the very beginning of the Free States mission arc, but I can't bring myself to spend very much time in the game these days.

Weirdly, I'm relying on Bethesda to NOT fix a bug. There's some kind of issue with the Excavator Power Armor where you get an additional +100 carry weight on top of the +100 it normally gives you, so long as you don't start a session overencumbered. The trick is that as soon as you leave the power armor, that +100 disappears, and it doesn't come back when you re-enter the power armor. That allows me to walk around with ~400 carry weight, but I dare not use significant portions of it because I know I'll have to get out eventually to craft or interact with something. But it's still better than constantly being on the edge of my inventory limit and spending half my time overencumbered.

This is a ridiculous reason to not play a game, but the amount of friction this adds is significant. And that's on top of the many, many other issues people have already talked about and dropped the game for, issues I've managed to ignore to an extent but never quite go away. And hearing about the patches they've put out recently have given me pause--not necessarily because they're regressions, though that's obviously terrible too, but because it implies that a certain amount of chaos still exists in the game's development process and likely won't go away any time soon.

Honestly, at this point I would take a version of the game that just removes the online components. Keep the exact same structure, don't add dialogue trees or NPCs or anything. Just make it so you're alone, so that combat doesn't get fucked by server lag, so that online servers don't have to keep track of all the items owned by multiple players so I can have an unlimited stash. It's not going to happen, of course, but I really think Fallout 76 Offline would at least be a decent game, if not necessarily the Fallout people want.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,499
I know I'm going to get crap here for this, but Bethesda should just cut and run, and this is coming from a sucker that bought the game at full price. The core gameplay loop is just too badly broken to salvage. Adding additional content isn't going to fix that.
I fully agree with you. I don't think this game has the audience left that it's worth saving it. Where's the content updates that were promised? There's no sign of them. Nothing, nada.

They should stop trying to save a game that can't be saved.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,899
Madrid
I think the point is that Publishers don't really care about the public perception, as long as people are buying and playing the product, which they are with TESO, and they weren't before. Ultimately it doesn't really matter the perception of randoms is, it's a F2P game, the players are the customers. I'm sure they'd like it to be better, but they are still releasing content for it, so I'm sure they're satisfied.
So they don't care about public perception, they only care about things that depend directly on public perception. Uh, OK? If a lot of people are buying and playing TESO, then obviously perception has changed, which I'm glad for.

I guess MMOs lend themselves to this kind of turnaround because people expect them to get better over time due to their very nature. Insofar Fallout 76 is kind of sort of like an MMO, the situation could be less hopeless for it than other games, but its reputation may have been stained beyond recovery.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,099
Are you not jumping to conclusions a bit? My views on Bethesda are definitely lower after how they've handled this game, but them abandoning the franchise would be an amazingly stupid move. Hell, I'm half wondering if Bethesda made this game so bad, people reconsidered their views on Fallout 4 (a bit of a base breaking game when it came out, wasn't it?) and thought, "Yeah, this game is pretty good, actually!" I can see them being quiet on Fallout for maybe a year or so, but with how many people love the franchise, the Fallout 76 controversy will HOPEFULLY spur them to make an awesome game in Fallout 5, or whatever Fallout project they do next.

And if Bethesda really does ditch Fallout and continue to be a self absorbed company who treats their fanbase like children (the "writing an essay so you don't get banned", really?), then is it really that bad that they abandon the franchise?
I don’t think they will abandon the franchise. I think that it’ll be about 10 years or more until Fallout 5 comes out. I’m guessing Starfield is 2021 or possibly even 2022 (for the bigger next gen install size) then ES:6 is at least 3 years after that. Which puts Fallout 5 3 years after that. That’s 9-10 years. And that’s assuming Fallout 5 is what they work on after Elder Scrolls. I could just as easily see them make Starfield 2 or another “non mainline” title in the Elder Scrolls or Starfield universe first.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
6,385
The Hundred Acre Wood
They have really just one shot: make a really good patch that totally fixes the game, while drawing newcomers in by making it F2P

Anyway I'm glad I came in this thread just to find out TESO is actually good now? How crazy, I'll have to check it out
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,341
Wait... so did people actually expect Bethesda to go back and fix their mess? Ha ha ha. And foxes will fly tomorrow; I'm sure of it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,607
So they don't care about public perception, they only care about things that depend directly on public perception. Uh, OK? If a lot of people are buying and playing TESO, then obviously perception has changed, which I'm glad for.

I guess MMOs lend themselves to this kind of turnaround because people expect them to get better over time due to their very nature. Insofar Fallout 76 is kind of sort of like an MMO, the situation could be less hopeless for it than other games, but its reputation may have been stained beyond recovery.
They don't care that there is a remaining stigma. You mentioned that some games are still the butt of jokes. NMS will never shake that, but the perception of the game as it is now, has changed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,387
I feel that the latest big patch at the end of last month not only broke the game more, especially the meta, but it really showed how little they actually fucking listen to the players. They would act on the subreddit about taking in problems as if it's the first time they've seen it... 3 months later. Problems from day fucking one are still in this game. Basically breaking the big meta of the TSE guns made ranged all the more worse while not even fixing other guns that should have been fixed. People have been asking for a buff to energy weapons for a long time and that hasn't been answered. A buff to heavy weapons, and that hasn't been answered.

Shit if you didn't know this, the patch was based on a previous build. As in, when they fixed shit in Patch 4, they undid a lot of it with Patch 5 because Patch 5 was based on a build before Patch 4... yes, they fucking did that. They got their own builds fucking mixed up. I put a lot of time into the game (got to about level 100) and didn't dupe or do shit like that. I earned what I fucking had and then they turned around and basically slapped you in the face for playing that way. To add insult to injury, they hurt the meta so much, yet they refuse to offer a way to reset points to change it up. You could dump hundreds of hours into one build and then they will make sure you have zero way of changing quickly, even if it's just a one time deal.

In the end, the game was a mess to start, but somehow it became so much worse and less fun to play as it went on. And that's saying something.

One last thing, I truly believe they are putting more effort into the Atom Store than anything else. I'm legit expecting the game to die off before any meaningful content comes to the game. That's how bad it is.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,209
I feel like they should put 76 out of its misery, apologize, and announce a New Vegas style Fallout game being done by a contracted developer.

It’s never gonna happen(especially the last part), but it should.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,094
I remembering it being a major controversy the team directly had to respond to. Still remember a old show called the bff report that ripped the game to shreds.

Check from 8:30 onwards for the copy pasta segment. I think people forget how big a deal it was.
Ok? I am well aware of what it was, i'm saying it's not a technical issue with the game, that's a design/asset creation/management problem, not an engine limitation.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,085
Germany
My opinion is that even if the game had 0 bugs/glitches and ran perfectly fine, it would still be a pretty bad game.
Exactly this.
I feel like they should put 76 out of its misery, apologize, and announce a New Vegas style Fallout game being done by a contracted developer.

It’s never gonna happen(especially the last part), but it should.
May be a bit early to say but Outer Worlds seems to be the Fallout in spirit we deserve and Bethesda will never deliver.