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excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
And they're using trans voices to do it. Read this and remember it's 2018 and on AfterEllen and not in The Guardian in 2011:

You are about to be astonished at the appropriation of the lives, fears and culture of women by today's most fashionable form of homophobia. This is itself an attack on the sexual and bodily autonomy of all women and especially lesbians, and is not just rubber-stamped by the organizations who are supposed to defend the rights of lesbians and gay men, it is positively celebrated so much that the point behind these organizations is no longer the interests of lesbians and gay men. The point is now the bank account.

It's a measure of how completely topsy-turvy the transgender debate has made LGB&T politics and organizations that the person writing this piece is a transsexual. I am, however, uniquely placed to be able to write this piece as I am a man who 'lives as a woman,' whatever that may mean, and can see exactly how too many transgender rights activists think. And as anyone who has ever participated in social media knows, any criticism of transgender ideology, which we all of us have the right to accept, critique and reject, any deviation from the brain-sucking mantra of 'trans women are women,' is met with reports to our employers, threats of physical violence, and threats of rape and death. This is a viciously toxic form of men's sexual rights activism that has managed to rebrand and reframe itself as a civil rights movement.

The framing of any discussion or debate is all important, and political language is often used to reframe threats as harmless, or to sell us ideas we'd never ordinarily entertain. Sometimes though the only way to drill down and actually understand something is to walk away from any subjective post-structuralist pretensions and abandon the soft lighting of the political language we have been carefully taught, reverting to good old fashioned precise and factual descriptions: thus all pronouns and reference to sex within my writing shall be implied from real life actual biological sex, and biological males will be referred to as such, even when they LARP 24/7 as a man's idea of what it is to be a woman.


by redefining Serano as a woman

...

Of course, this only works if we perceive Serano as a disadvantaged woman, and not a man whose idea of 'woman' clearly is nothing other than a sexual object

...

Within the world of transgender, the elephant in the room is the influence of sex: to outsiders, this is visible clear as day, and a dip into trans-Twitter or the trans boards on 4Chan (4Tran…?) show obsessions with anime and a porn-influenced conceptualisation of 'woman' and, of course, 'lesbian.' The male fantasy of being the spectator to two (or more) women having sex is evolved by inserting into this scene the sexually aroused man, who by identity alone has become 'lesbian,' and this is the fantastical scenario the 'trans woman' aspires to: acceptance as a woman at the most fundamental level, by a woman who is sexually oriented only towards women. This is the achievement they would wish to unlock, this is the end-of-level boss.

...

If you looked to our lesbian and gay support groups, you'd be forgiven for thinking none of these problems exist. Here, in the United Kingdom, we have in Stonewall's Ruth Hunt and Diva Magazine's Linda Riley two women who are willing to compromise the integrity of what it means to be a homosexual human female, a lesbian, and these women who themselves are lesbians themselves, have inserted into their remit the class of people lesbianism excludes, males, and twisted their organization's objectives to all but center the love interests of the heterosexual male. In the Stonewall document 'The Truth About Trans' the following Q&A neatly encapsules just how far Hunt and Stonewall are willing to go to eliminate the material reality of what it is to be a homosexual female:

"So, could a lesbian have a trans woman as a lesbian partner, or a gay man be with a trans man?

Of course. If they fancy each other. First and foremost, we need to recognize that trans women are women, and trans men are men. After that it becomes a matter of who you are attracted to. Adults are free to have relationships with other consenting adults, whatever their sexual orientation or gender identity."

Diva's Linda Riley is unwilling to enter into any discussion with actual female homosexuals over whether men can call themselves lesbians, instead doubling-down by reframing even questioning her wish to validate heterosexual males as lesbians as nothing other than the incitement of hate:

"I refuse to change my views on Trans Inclusivity within @DIVAmagazine and I was very clear on this when I met you. To spell it out clearly DIVA will not print or publish any views which we deem to incite hate against the Trans Community."

This gross neglect by Hunt and Riley of their key constituents is, of course, all about money: the diversity and inclusivity industrial complex offers rich rewards for organizations who are happy to promote the message that people should cease thinking for themselves and relinquish all control over their personal boundaries.


The reality then is that the very organizations that should be challenging the decimation of lesbian and gay culture, which under the label 'queer' has had its political force diluted to homeopathic significance, have instead become the cheerleaders for the poor, sad, sexually oppressed heterosexual male and are unwilling to challenge damaging cultural practices that affect our younger lesbian and gay populations, as this is seen as 'progressive'.


...

The victims of this new religion are, of course, women: lesbian culture has been decimated as lesbian bars rebadge themselves as 'queer' so that they are more 'inclusive', which in this context means 'less likely to be attacked by transgender activists claiming discrimination'. Women-only groups, organizations and even festivals are compelled, by direct threats to funding, to accept 'self-identification' as the passport to these spaces, rather than a collection of shared physical characteristics and a life of experience of living with the resultant personal and intimate consequences.

This is the antithesis of freedom; this is a new form of fascism through economic coercion, which has cleverly been disguised as a civil rights movement. If the transgender rights movement may be described as a revolution, it is now time for counter-revolution: bring on the backlash.

https://www.afterellen.com/general-...-lesbians-girls-and-women#uLrS5sLQcUJEdewK.99


This is straight up right out of the Right-Wing Playbook , use a member of the community to say the truly hateful shit.

This entire piece is just a means to say look this trans woman admits trans women aren't women, so we're in the clear now.

Early in the year they also published a piece that was another textbook Right Wing play, use incidents of unacceptable but isolated violence to cast a net on an entire community and their language:

"Over a year ago, I was at a drag show with a woman I was seeing at the time who is now friends with my attackers. At some point, I called Natalie/Nat/Dickie Rebellion (that's her drag name) a female…That is, initially, why they began calling me a TERF," she told AfterEllen. "When I heard that the woman I dated last year was running around telling people I'm a TERF, I called her out. I told her that if acknowledging that sex is a biological reality and that humans are sexually dimorphic makes me a TERF, then I am one."

TERF is a slur, created and used by the queer community, which can be applied to anyone who questions or appears to question any of the popular claims of gender ideology. One of the quickest ways to be called a TERF is to say publicly that homosexuality is defined by a sexual attraction to the same sex and a revulsion to the opposite sex. Lesbians are frequently the targets of this homophobic rhetoric, online and in person. The queer party line is that lesbians should be willing to have sex with transwomen, regardless of their transition status, because transwomen are women, full stop. TERF is being used as an excuse to incite violence against women and is considered hate speech.

https://www.afterellen.com/general-...ied-women-jump-lesbian-outside-of-a-drag-show

This piece is entirely devised to make the trans women community out to be a gang of men beating up women. Note that just like Right Wing folks, the entire focus is always on hating on trans women.

jLlzeoJ.jpg


aTO0TdI.jpg







And then it all makes sense:

Some controversy has arisen lately around AfterEllen, "the pop culture site that plays for your team". The site was taken over by a new company and fell victim to significant disinvestment earlier last year, leading to a slightly acrimonious parting of ways with the then editor and a number of staff writers. The site was pronounced dead, only to jump out of its grave and deny that it had ever lost consciousness.

Now with a new Editor-in-Chief, it seems as though AfterEllen has adopted a new ideology too. Attention was called to the fact that the new Editor, Memoree Joelle, signed, promoted and commented in support of a petition to "drop the L" from 'LGBT', which explains in its first paragraph that the petition was set up following a lack of response to an earlier petition to "drop the T" from 'LGBT'. The petition is addressed toHRC, GLAAD, NCLR, Lambda Legal, The Advocate, and HuffPo Gay Voices.

The second paragraph elaborates: "The addition of T to the LGBT has resulted in Lesbians being silenced and threatened, all women and girls to be at risk for our safety, and our interests to take a backseat to those of transgenderist males who co-opt our name and culture."

...

For her first "Letter from the Editor" of 2017, Joelle wrote of the need to end infighting under the LGBTQ+ umbrella, which she sees as being fuelled by "immediate labelling with names like "biphobia" "lesbophobia" "transphobia" "TERF" [Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist] and countless others."

This echoes, or at least clarifies, the sentiments within her choice to post a particular video to the site a few weeks earlier of Orange is the New Black's Lea DeLaria. Joelle explained that the video provides warning to the LGBTQ+ community of "our biggest obstacle". "Nope, it's not the alt-right", it's "political correctness".

https://thequeerness.com/2017/01/29...ian-to-afterellen-please-dont-break-my-heart/


Frankly Ellen DeGeneres should ask them to stop using her name.
 

Buttzerker

Powerhouse Protector / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,017
Fuckin yikes.

While every form of racism and sexism is terrible, TERFs and transphobia are uniquely insidious and subversive in the methods and sheer extent to which they try to deny transgender people basic person-hood.
 

HyGogg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,495
Oof. Yeah, everything about this is terrible.

The argument being made in this article is such a lazy strawman. Obviously the experience of being a transwoman is different than being a cis woman. Absolutely no one denies that. But that doesn't mean they aren't both equally women. Just because one person's experience of womanhood is different than another's doesn't mean it's not equally valid.

It's like they have the first half of an argument and never bother to think up the second half, and try to say that if a trans woman is not identical to a cis woman, then they must be identical to a cis man. Fucking what?
 

Ratrat

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,867
Thanks for posting. Transwomen get so much hate. I just dont understand it.

The comments on the article are horrible. Ugh.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
What is going on in the UK that so much TERF bullshit comes from there? Sickening.

Pretty much every British comedy show and panel show has used trans people as a laughing stock. Usually by left wing comedy shows in particular, going off my head beloved shows like Mock the Week, HIGNFY, QI, Leafue of Gentlemen, Red Dwarf, all of Linehams work, Buzzcocks, etc etc...

I mean people talk about Chandler's dad in friends but it's like the Danish girl compared to the likes of fucking IT crowd.

It's ingrained into British left wing culture, like a stain.
 
OP
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excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
Another serious crime of the piece is that it's really badly written. Can bigots at least present their bigotry with grammatical accuracy, and interesting and effective sentence structure? Is that too much to ask,? If I'm going to be hated, hate me with an oxford comma bro.
 

Buttzerker

Powerhouse Protector / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,017
Another serious crime of the piece is that it's really badly written. Can bigots at least present their bigotry with grammatical accuracy, and interesting and effective sentence structure? Is that too much to ask,? If I'm going to be hated, hate me with an oxford comma bro.

Their vocabulary isn't good enough to think of three distinct insults for transfolk in a single sentence, so they forgot how to use the Oxford Comma.
 
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excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
Honestly, I think they're straight up ratfuckers, hard-core conservatives posturing as feminists for the sake of appealing to centrist women. It's like how Christian missionaries created "Jews for Jesus" to better target converting Jews. I don't think they're really real at all.


Nahhhh, hating Trans people is perfectly acceptable in some segments of the left especially within the Queer community, there's a reason the R stands for radical, it's a disservice to the problem to pretend they're Cons in disguise.
 

HyperFerret

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,140
Fuck TERFs.

Just because you were born with a vagina doesn't make you superior to those that weren't. Transwomen have a hard enough time through life as it is, no need to pile on extra bullshit.
 

Persephone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,440
"TERF is a slur!"
"But you're a Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist?"
"Yes."
"So you're a TERF?"
"TERF is a slur!"

And round and round it goes.

Also can these assholes stop giving the rest of us lesbians a bad name kthxbai
 

Gakidou

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,612
pip pip cheerio fish & chips
Kinda reminds me of that time Richard O'Brien said "trans women can't truly be women" or somesuch.
I mean, taking it at face value and assuming this isn't a larger political tactic or anything... it's just incredibly arrogant to talk like your own individual experience and insecurities represents everyone in that group, so much so that it becomes its own bigotry. People who allude to autogynephilia in their definition of all trans women are projecting so obnoxiously, I wonder if they've even listened to any trans folk besides themselves?
I don't see why its so hard to believe that some people just straight up want to be women like not as a sexual thing. I hate to say "NOW WHOS THE SEXIST" but like NOW WHOS THE SEXIST EH??? EH???
Plus I don't know, I just feel like this "lesbians chased by rebranded dicks" narrative plays into the idea of women as the vulnerable sex, lesbianism is surely defined by "women who fancy women", not "a safe dating space for androphobes?"

real feminists 4 girl dick 2019
 

Benita

Banned
Aug 27, 2018
862
Although it is unequivocally heinous and wrong, I can at least wrap my head around the thought process of cis TERFs.

What is so utterly bizarre to me is the refusal of one minority group who are finally being able to live in the light, being so completely unwilling to show empathy to another minority group who are still fighting for their humanity.

Fuck you, got mine indeed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,216
"TERF is a slur" is almost as much of a trash person tell then someone using the word cuck or SJW unironically. People that say that say that because they're TERFs
 
The second paragraph elaborates: "The addition of T to the LGBT has resulted in Lesbians being silenced and threatened, all women and girls to be at risk for our safety, and our interests to take a backseat to those of transgenderist males who co-opt our name and culture."

Does this idiot know that the whole reason why LGBT as an activist movement even exists is because of transwomen at Stonewall?
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,567
"TERF is a slur" is almost as much of a trash person tell then someone using the word cuck or SJW unironically. People that say that say that because they're TERFs

Honestly, "TERF is a slur" is even worse. Like, imagine the path required to get there. How long, twisted, and just straight up narrow it is. Imagine all the garbage someone has to wade through.

I'd rather get a beer with someone who calls me a SJW than even shake the hand of someone who claims TERF is a slur.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
TERF is not a slur, it stands for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. It's literally the most generous descriptive term you could use for these people.

Seems bizarre to focus all the bigotry solely on trans women. I mean clearly they don't see trans men as men either but they don't seem to do as much fear mongering based on that for whatever reason.
 

Ombra

Member
Jan 22, 2018
610
User Banned (1 Week): Transphobia.
I have a different opinion than most on this but even I think their hostility is a damn shame. I would have hoped this debate could be resolved without manufactured fearmongering by that side.
 

Shroki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,911
As a bisexual man, the hate and dismissal I face from the gay community is way, exponentially worse than anything I get from bigoted moron homophobes. They should know better and be allies in this, and when they aren't, it's a sucker punch.

I imagine TERF bullshit is much the same, with the added fact that life is much more complicated and difficult for the transgender community. Morons like those in charge at AfterEllen are insufferable and enraging.
 
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excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
I have a different opinion than most on this but even I think their hostility is a damn shame. I would have hoped this debate could be resolved without manufactured fearmongering by that side.

There's no debate to be had, this isn't a fight with two sides worth considering.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
I have a different opinion than most on this but even I think their hostility is a damn shame. I would have hoped this debate could be resolved without manufactured fearmongering by that side.
What debate is there to be had? That trans women are somehow erasing lesbians by merely existing? That argument has about as much weight as the argument that black people are erasing white people by merely existing, which is to say it has absolutely no basis in reality and is just bigoted garbage.
 

lake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,289
When TERFs claim TERF is a slur it's almost amusing because the term has them so completely dead to rights they have no logical argument to offer.
 

lenovox1

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,995
It's such a f*cking shame. That site used to be a haven and a beacon for queer presence in the media. How alienating your audience could ever be seen as a good business move I will never understand
 

grunkleFungus

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
171
NC, US
Goddamn.

With the loss of such a site and lots of its former useful resources (articles taken down), has an alternative cropped up to fill that void?

I've heard Autostraddle is good and I've heard of Curve Magazine but it's hard to find a lot of things specifically for wlw. Lesbian is still mostly associated with shitty porn. It's why it took me so long to even come out as one. And now people are associating lesbians with TERFs, which pisses me off. Lesbianism isn't a shield for TERFs to defend their shitty, horrible, and cruel ideology.