Maybe the lesson here is we shouldn't jump to label people as thought-criminals so quickly. People are complex and flawed and sometimes they say dumb shit.
Pornstar August Ames commits suicide after harassment
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That she says she didn't communicate good enough is imo a decent response. People get fucking hung up on one tweet which might have been written in the spur of the moment and just ignore anything she said after.
And it's not like those concerns come completely out of nowhere
https://www.salon.com/2012/09/08/must_porn_stars_get_tested/
I still think it’s disgusting to be pissing over a woman’s grave and digging up old tweets to merely win an internet argument. Some of you need to learn when to take a step back and smell the roses.
By "old tweets", do you mean the ones from the last three days that are the very topic of the criticism directed at her that played a large part in this, that various people here are defending?
The tweets are homophobic, sure. I’m a non-gender conforming, gender fluid person that identifies as pansexual. But I’m not going to be dedicating my entire day putting a dead woman on blast in a thread about her death, that’s deeply troubling. There is a time and a place for that, and if you’ve even been slightly following this thread, you can see that it has already teetered into dangerously aggressive rhetoric from everyone involved.
For me at least, I'm feeling frustrated not towards Ames but to the people defending the tweets, arguing that the idea isn't biphobic.
And you can absolutely be concerned with the ideas expressed. But for the sake of respect, I think it’s best to make an entirely new thread about that because it’s a little too late to make this thread about her statements because one, she’s dead, likely because the toxicity from these types of arguments added to her depression; and two, I find it inappropriate to be using a woman’s suicide as a device to speak about homophobic mindsets at large. There is ample room and time to have reasonably respectful and educational conversations about issues such as these, they are not merely confined to this one instance, this one thread.
Holy shit, I just saw this. She's my age and seemed like a good person. I don't know anything about the recent comments she made, but in no way should people be abusive enough for someone to take their own life. As bad as her comments may have been, she did not deserve this. No human does.
This is something that a lot of people on this forum seem incapable of understanding. She made a homophobic comment, but that doesn’t mean she’s homophobic. Just like how one can make a racist or sexist comment, but not actually be racist or sexist. They had an impure thought and voiced it out of stupidity. They’re only human.
I didn't er know her work but having er done a bit of investigation she seemed like a fun person. It seems very sad that she felt she could not just walk away from it all.
Exactly. Some of the comments here have been absolutely disgusting, considering we're talking about a woman suffering from depression who was driven to suicide by online comments.
Bigotry is a part of human nature, not some aberration that can be eradicated simply by shouting at people.
Everyone shows signs of bigotry in someway during their life, and all we can do as decent human beings is recognise that and try to stop ourselves.
The ones pointing their fingers and screaming, like something out of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, often seem more filled with hate than the ones they're accusing.
MASSIVE UPDATE : apparently in the male porn industry, for gay porn the testing standards are apparently much lower , so it wasn't bigotry , there is a higher risk having sex with actors who also do gay porn
we should get the full info
we should get the full info
This thread is a free zone for biphobia, I guess?
I suppose that I'm encouraging this meta-diversion by responding to posts like this.
This is from one of her fellow porn sex workers that entered in the argument with her previous to what happened. Notice the wording:
"I wasn't hateful to her at all! I've just said don't be stupid! We all refuse people just don't tweet about it! LM"
Basically, her crime was informing that agents might not be warning their clients about a situation that the actors would be against it. Her crime was to spread the information, to say: hey, maybe check the background of the people you will have sex with.
They all refuse people, like seem that it will be obvious in an industry like this, but she couldn't talk about the shady practices from the agents she puts her trust for? How can anyone consent to something if they are going in the dark about who they are having sex with? ALL OF THEM HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE A CHOICE. That's way more important than a supposed stigma of an unnamed actor. Who screwed up was her agents, not her.
Yes, she worded her first tweet was writtenbadly. Her previous tweet is she saying that is mad and mulling over going in a rant. I think someone can't be seen as homophobic for written a poorly thought out tweet, especially in the specific context of these circumstances. There was a break of trust and she was pissed. All of them deserve to have the right of choice and feel safe that their agents will respect their demands. That was the problem all along. Maybe if more people from the industry had spoken about this THEN, this wouldn't have happened.
How do you figure?
There are plenty of detailed posts in this thread which help explain this industry, and why the choices she made are important.
She was a young lady, it is terrible that people do not realize how much impact your words can have on another human being. She was only guilty of not being able to articulate herself more clearly for some, and even after multiple apologies she was hounded by the mob until she was pushed over the edge. Super sad and tragic, some shameful behaviour from people on message boards and on twitter. Tribal mentality needs to be eradicated, it is what is holding society back.
RIP. Her apologies should have been the end of it but online tribalism and mob mentality got the blood it wanted I guess. Shame. Her parents must be broken.
some said a person who does gay porn and wants to shoot straight porn has to get tested like everyone else in the straight porn industrie.
but you only need a test every 2 weeks in the straight industrie.
so you could get a clean test, then shoot gay porn for 1 week and then do your straight scene, I kinda can see the concerns straight actors could have.
Ames was openly bi herself. There are interviews about that on YouTube where she talks about which female porn star she'd like to have a scene with.
Are there veiled biphobia going on around this case? DEFINITELY. But accusing an openly bi woman of homophobia when declining actors is a common practice in the business to the point she kills herself shouldn't even be open to discussion that is fucked up.
I'm not an woman, but I can't be the single one seeing that this was a blatant case of misogyny both while the girl was alive and afterwards, both on Twitter and here. Denying someone her right of choice and saying that she informing people about situation that was been hidden from her and other actresses isn't just irresponsible, but explicit misogyny: she doesn't has the right to choose, she doesn't get to warn her colleagues of shady practices that break the pact of trust actor/agent, because if she does that's homophobia and denying an unnamed actor a job somehow.
Imagine a gay actor that agrees with his agent that he doesn't want to have scenes with other women: wouldn't be okay for him to vent about that if that was hidden from him until the last minute? It doesn't matter their sexual orientation, ANYONE has the right to choose and have knowledge so they can fully consent, she vented about being misled and then this happened. No one deserves this, and just like it's important that there isn't biphobia or homophobia, misogyny seems to be so much of a thing when it comes to sex workers that people do it without even realizing it. Girl was married to a director she constantly made scenes with, she had access to info about the whole porn scene, maybe believe her that there was more to what she was saying that she was allowed to say; not shame her and burn her on a cross.
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Nah. Just that the imperative to call out her remark should have been weighed against and informed by the imperative not to exacerbate possible harassment.
In this case, there are a number of ways that could have been done: responding to her in real time, as opposed to holding her exclusively to the one tweet (e.g., taking into consideration some additional point she had made, when she showed remorse, when it seemed she was being swarmed, etc.); going out of your way to be constructive, or to ensure that your call out doesn't read as insulting or dismissive to her as a person; and yes, someone could have reasonably decided to avoid personally calling her out at all.
No, she didn't admit to being wrong. Her apology still should have informed the response she was getting. At no point did she project maliciousness, and it shouldn't have been hard to believe that she genuinely didn't intend for her tweet to be harmful to anybody.
Speaking generally, not just specifically about this:
People can choose who to have sex with. People's choices can be based on stereotypes. People can be criticised on that basis. That isn't telling people they have to have sex with someone against their will.
Being bisexual also doesn't mean someone can't be biphobic.
BUT
This isn't the most important thing in this overall discussion, it is just the subset of the discussion I've been drawn into. The more important things are the trouble that she was having both in general and in these last few days, that a deluge of people criticising someone is a powerful force that shouldn't be underestimated or taken part in lightly, that some people could be culpable for what they wrote and that ultimately, and most importantly, that she has died.
People can choose who to have sex with. People's choices can be based on stereotypes. People can be criticised on that basis. That isn't telling people they have to have sex with someone against their will.
Being bisexual also doesn't mean someone can't be biphobic.
BUT
This isn't the most important thing in this overall discussion, it is just the subset of the discussion I've been drawn into. The more important things are the trouble that she was having both in general and in these last few days, that a deluge of people criticising someone is a powerful force that shouldn't be underestimated or taken part in lightly, that some people could be culpable for what they wrote and that ultimately, and most importantly, that she has died.
It's a damn shame that everything is a battleground these days. A singular person says something that might be misconstrued as phobic towards whatever, and you've got hundreds of people ready to jump down that person's throat.
August Ames having this opinion was not important. Literally NOTHING would have changed if people would have just ignored that comment, and literally no good has come from all this bordering-on-navel-gazing discussion. The bottom line is that people can choose not to have sex with whomever they want, for whatever reason they want. Yes, you technically are also free to criticize that person for it - but you wouldn't criticize a perfect stranger on the street, or in a bar, after overhearing this either. And me personally, these are the types of issues that I wouldn't even criticize a friend or family member for either. But that's just me not being an argumentative dick, I suppose.
August Ames having this opinion was not important. Literally NOTHING would have changed if people would have just ignored that comment, and literally no good has come from all this bordering-on-navel-gazing discussion. The bottom line is that people can choose not to have sex with whomever they want, for whatever reason they want. Yes, you technically are also free to criticize that person for it - but you wouldn't criticize a perfect stranger on the street, or in a bar, after overhearing this either. And me personally, these are the types of issues that I wouldn't even criticize a friend or family member for either. But that's just me not being an argumentative dick, I suppose.
Why do you feel entitled to criticise who someone else chooses to have sex with?
Especially as you were doing so based on false assumptions about their motives, and the details of their working environment.
The lack of empathy you have shown in this thread is disturbing.
Τo be frank, that is what happens everywhere especially in forums as well... people are way too quick to judge and quite a few of them ,apparently, love to harass someone to bits. It takes only a few words, or an opinion which is maybe a bit different than the most popular one in a community, and there you have it. The mob gets in a -no mercy- mentality and dont realize that this is also a form of harassment, to the point were someone not strong enough, or going through a lot of shit in his life, could end up hurting themselves.
The irony is that a lot of those times the harasser is basically a person who actually condemns any form of harassment...
I didn't want to talk in specifics about this and have tried to kept in broad terms.
In broad terms, if somebody has prejudiced reasons for having sex or not having sex with someone, I am not of the view that it's above criticism. My view on developed from stems from "just a preference" in the gay/bi male community and there's a lot of discussion on that online, most of it about race and some about bisexuality.
I don't want to be drawn into this further since I'd just be repeating myself.
And I'm finding this whole situation very stressful. :(
Holy shit.
I'm waiting for the first horror stories related to the side-activities of pornstars.
Not 100% sure but I recall reading an article that basically said that most female pornstars make most
of their money through escort especially when new in the business.
And escort services in a city like LA...you don't need a lot of imagination here.
I'm waiting for the first horror stories related to the side-activities of pornstars.
Not 100% sure but I recall reading an article that basically said that most female pornstars make most
of their money through escort especially when new in the business.
And escort services in a city like LA...you don't need a lot of imagination here.
Or, you know, could just be for the most part totally safe sex work?
this is awful :( R.I.P.
it's really sad to see some of the ones that were joining in on attacking her in her tweet conversation were other women in the industry
it's really sad to see some of the ones that were joining in on attacking her in her tweet conversation were other women in the industry
I wonder what a more appropriate time will be? The one year anniversary of her death maybe?
Would other women in the industry not be the best ones to point out things about the practices? Obviously not talking about the guy in the industry who was telling her to kill herself, but these women trying to talk to her really seems like the best ones for her to be replying to.
Don't try to normalize bigotry and say that people who call it out are the real monsters. For what its worth, she's not a bigot. She made a single comment, but this post is just all wrong.
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