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z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Looking at all rumors and information about the Nintendo Switch and the history of Nintendo revisions has me pretty confident that a full system revision (NEW MODEL, whether or not it has better performance) will happen this August.

Why the timing makes sense:
  • Exhibit A: Nvidia's 20nm commitment should be resolved.
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...al_is_a_vindication_of_nvidias_shield_program
A mutually beneficial agreement for Nvidia and Nintendo? This is talking about Nvidia's Tegra line not having a win, but there is another reason that Nvidia gave Nintendo a deal that makes Semi Accurate question if Nvidia actually "Won" in the agreement. The other reason is in 2013, Nvidia made a commitment with TSMC to produce "X" number of 20nm chips, This high volume production allowed TSMC to push for the 20nm process node, process shrinks cost a great deal of money, so the commitment was vital from Nvidia and had to be a fairly huge contract.

Thraktor, came up with the idea that Nvidia likely made a deal with Nintendo because of this, and pointed out how AMD had been fined for $320 Million dollars for pulling out of a commitment for wafer production from global foundaries 5 or so years back. Nvidia had received no wins for the X1 except for Google Pixel C (tablet) and some other niche devices, producing 10s of millions of Nvidia Shield devices was just not going to happen, so Nvidia told the Tegra team that they needed to find a console win for X1. At the time, I was told by someone that Nvidia was on the hook for 20 Million 20nm wafer chips, considering Switch's success, 20 Million Switch units is coming up very fast. On March 31st, Nintendo Switch shipped 17.79 Million Switch consoles, and should be hovering around ~19 Million shipped as of today, with 100s of thousands in production atm.

  • Exhibit B: Nvidia Tegra T214 will be used in the near future for Nintendo Switch family of devices.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/sw...e-codenamed-mariko-8gb-ram-speculation.29092/

Mid March, data miners leaked the Nvidia Tegra 214 chip reference in firmware 5.0.
(Not going into speculation on this chip just yet, but seems to have a whole new PCB, likely meaning newer components beyond just a SoC, and 8GB RAM).

Hackers also disclosed to Nvidia and Nintendo this month, the hardware vulnerability and agreed not to disclose it until June this year, though obviously it was disclosed early, anonymously. (This could mean that T214 was not produced simply to solve a hardware vulnerability with future Switch devices, but likely has new hardware, which is supported in the thread above.)

  • Exhibit C: History of handheld revisions.
The Nintendo DS was released in November 2004, the DS lite was released 15 months later in Japan and 18 Months later (June 2006) for most of the rest of the world.

The Nintendo 3DS originally was suppose to launch Holiday 2010, but was delayed until Spring 2011, the 3DS XL launched July and August 2012 in Japan and the West respectively. (Again, 18 Months later)

The Nintendo Switch was suppose to launch Holiday 2016, but because of software not being ready, they pushed it to March 2017. 18 Months afterwards, would be August 2018 this year, following the same time frame and path that 3DS followed.

  • Exhibit D: Nintendo's hardware goals for FY 2018.
Nintendo wants to sell 20 Million Switch units, but they actually have 25-30 Million as their production goal this year. Sure, Smash and Pokemon this FY is definitely going to go a long way to hit that 20 Million, but Nintendo wants to sell Wii/DS style numbers this year for Switch (as much as 24 to 29 Million can actually be shipped this year, if that is their production goals, just shy of Wii and DS's top yearly sales). That will require a hardware revision, the Switch sold nearly 18 million units last year, for it to hit 20 million? it's possible with what we know, but nothing that we know could put them at these kind of numbers, so it must be what we don't know, and given the 3 supporting pieces of evidence above, I believe that it is a hardware revision coming before the holidays.

While September would make sense thanks to the launch of their Internet services, August would not disrupt this idea IMO, as getting the device into as many gamers hands for a more positive experience is going to only reap higher praise in the end.

  • Speculation on new hardware specs? This is not my prediction.
The revision to T214, already has revealed that there is more RAM and a new PCB on the way, I'm going to suggest that we are looking at a 3D transistor this time around, meaning 16nm or better. X2 is quite possible because of the PCB changes, which could hint at different hardware components, and with Nintendo changing the RAM pool size, I'd suggest that they are doubling the bandwidth, like the X2. This is not something that actually needs to be Pascal however, the same performance is available to X1 in the 16nm process node, and this process node is capable of pushing A57 past 1.5GHz for the CPU at the same power consumption too, though 64bit ARM cores run the same code, so A72, A73, A75 and Nvidia's Caramel, are all candidates, however I'd be perfectly content with this being a smaller revision and Nintendo shooting for a Pro/X style upgrade in 2021/2022, and this just catching up to XB1/PS4 a bit more for better port performance.

Here is Digital Foundry talking about what a revision could mean for Switch and it's entire library of games, including those already released.
 
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darkwing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,969
so it would be better to wait for this better unit? unless you are not into homebrew
 

FiXalaS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,569
Kuwait.
too soon.

If they aren't lowering the price of the Switch that we have now there is nobreason for this.

Unless, this revision is basically replacing the Switch silently
 

Raijinto

self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
10,091
Nintendo can definitely meet their hardware/software forecasts without a revision, and past history on such things could be moot. It's the same song and dance we've seen many, many times really.
 
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z0m3le

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
You're quoting Wall Street Journal multiple times, but they themselves reported that there would not be any Switch revisions this year.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-03-01-no-switch-hardware-revision-this-year-report

Also, there's no evidence that the Switch was delayed from holiday to march 2017.
https://mynintendonews.com/2012/06/...king-on-3ds-successor-and-not-a-3ds-revision/ That was less than 2 months before 3DS had a revision.
 

Jimrpg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,280
Sony do it around every 2 years to revise issues with the hardware, take advantage of new parts and manufacturing processes and sometimes to reduce cost of the machine. ie PS3 slim, PS2 slim etc.

I don't feel like Nintendo are going to do a revision already, because the Switch still feels new and its still selling incredibly well, so probably not.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,097
Reasonable logic, but I think 2019 is more likely. It's been a massive hit, they don't need to reinvigorate sales, and their costs can go down by giving themselves more time to develop the inevitable iteration(s).
 

Velezcora

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 16, 2017
3,124
They'd piss off too many existing customers if they release a better model this soon. Nintendo aren't Sega.
 
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z0m3le

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
"PR says" is very different from "sources within Nintendo anonymously disclosed that".
While I've always believed a 2019 revision made perfect sense, my OP clearly shows that there is reason to believe that new hardware is coming this year. Also you don't put reference to new hardware like the T214, in your firmware, unless the chip is around the corner, and no I don't believe this could just be a devkit chip, Nintendo needs to solve their hardware vulnerability, and this needs to be done right now, they have no reason to stay on 20nm, when everyone is using 16nm or better in the industry right now.

They'd piss off too many existing customers if they release a better model this soon. Nintendo aren't Sega.

Except they literally did this with both DS and 3DS.
 

MarcyPoos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
919
Most likely version of a new Switch this year is to replace the launch model with a new passively cooled model with a longer battery life.
 

0MAR10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
151
Louisiana
Would make 0 sense. Confuse the current market and anger first adopters who still have a big role in the continued success of the company. Just enjoy what's out now jfc
 
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z0m3le

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Only reason I see it happening is to replace the launch model with a new passively cooled model with a longer battery life.
This absolutely could be the case, except they might want to keep the same form factor for joycon capability, and a passively cooled 16nm chip might not like the 768mhz GPU still.
 

Velezcora

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 16, 2017
3,124
While I've always believed a 2019 revision made perfect sense, my OP clearly shows that there is reason to believe that new hardware is coming this year. Also you don't put reference to new hardware like the T214, in your firmware, unless the chip is around the corner, and no I don't believe this could just be a devkit chip, Nintendo needs to solve their hardware venerability, and this needs to be done right now, they have no reason to stay on 20nm, when everyone is using 16nm or better in the industry right now.



Except they literally did this with both DS and 3DS.

Those were redesigns I'm talking about better hardware.
 

-shadow-

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,110
The only revision I see happening is the new Tegra X1 revision that stops the hacking. But that's it for now.
 

K Samedi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,990
I think a supplemental computing device makes sense because I believe the Foxconn leak was too accurate to be false and there was talk of an extender unit on par with a PS4 Pro. Seems to me like that will be rolling out soon.
 

ggx2ac

Sales Heaven or Sales Hell?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,504
Or T214 could just be a security revision (no die shrink or other performance improvements) with a new bootloader to remove the hardware flaws that Nintendo caught long before any homebrew groups did but couldn't delay launching the Switch which is why there's such a quick turnaround for a new SoC that has addressed those flaws and tightened security.

Just speculating.

Edit: Hence, I'm not thinking that there'll be a new Switch model this year other than the above which most people wouldn't be able to tell from current Switch models unless they tore the thing open.
 

Amnixia

â–˛ Legend â–˛
The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
10,424
2019? Maybe.
2020? Sure, I can see it happen.
2018 though? Lol no.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,398
Why would they add RAM, fracture the base at increased cost to themselves?
A passively cooled version with X2 at roughly the same spec I can see though.
 
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z0m3le

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Those were redesigns I'm talking about better hardware.
This thread isn't predicting better hardware, it is just mentioned along with the T214, which is why I talked about it. This is about a revision happening in August this year.
The only revision I see happening is the new Tegra X1 revision that stops the hacking. But that's it for now.
We do not know that T214 is a new Tegra X1.
I think a supplemental computing device makes sense because I believe the Foxconn leak was too accurate to be false and there was talk of an extender unit on par with a PS4 Pro. Seems to me like that will be rolling out soon.
The Foxconn leak also mentioned higher clock speeds being tested, which I've wrote up in the past era that 16nm fits those clocks perfectly. Who knows if T214 was in pretesting back then?
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,164
for now i think they're just concerned with meeting shipment expectations which is supposedly difficult as is. i don't think you could slip a revision in there without significant manufacturing downtime, even if said revision was ultimately quicker and cheaper
 

Daneel_O

Member
Oct 28, 2017
294
I don't see any reason why they would do it.

Maybe in a couple of years, but right now it would be just be a major cost where they are likely to reap huge profits by going on with the current hardware.

If anything, we would get a silent revision of the hardware just to fix the vulnerability, and that's it.
 

Ephonk

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,943
Belgium
Nope, it will get a chip replacement to resolve the nvidia bug, but nothing consumers will notice. Next year however....
 
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z0m3le

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Or T214 could just be a security revision (no die shrink or other performance improvements) with a new bootloader to remove the hardware flaws that Nintendo caught long before any homebrew groups did but couldn't delay launching the Switch which is why there's such a quick turnaround for a new SoC that has addressed those flaws and tightened security.

Just speculating.

Edit: Hence, I'm not thinking that there'll be a new Switch model this year other than the above which most people wouldn't be able to tell from current Switch models unless they tore the thing open.
I'm also just speculating, my belief was 2019 before this, but I'm willing to look at the evidence and see that we could be wrong. I completely get where everyone is coming from too, but I'm going to make the prediction, and if it's wrong, it's wrong.
I don't see any reason why they would do it.

Maybe in a couple of years, but right now it would be just be a major cost where they are likely to reap huge profits by going on with the current hardware.

If anything, we would get a silent revision of the hardware just to fix the vulnerability, and that's it.
The reasons are listed in the OP. I get that it's not a sure bet, but it is definitely possible.
 

Boy Wander

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,126
UK
No chance. Too early in the life cycle and it's still selling great. Absolutely no reason to do so.
 

Pablo Mesa

Banned
Nov 23, 2017
6,878
why would they? they just finally this year managed to put production in the right path. why change for a new SKU??
 

MarcyPoos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
919
This absolutely could be the case, except they might want to keep the same form factor for joycon capability, and a passively cooled 16nm chip might not like the 768mhz GPU still.

Yeah I absolutely expect the form factor to remain 100% the same no matter what they do with the internals or screen size.
 

Gobias-Ind

Member
Nov 22, 2017
4,024
Yeah, they've done it this quickly in the past with previous handhelds, but I'm just having a hard time imagining that they find it necessary at this point. Also, they've explicitly stated it's not happening. Would be cool though.

I'm more immediately interested in wtf the new USB-C peripherals mentioned by the WSJ Japan guy back in March are supposed to be. Chargers aren't worth getting excited about.... New dock? If so, what changes are they making that necessitate the release of a new dock? Is it another "out of left field" type of thing like Labo? Idk, but I'm intrigued

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ws...h-peripherals-not-revisions-switch-2-0.26520/

The people familiar said expanded Switch features in the coming year could also include additional network-related features and peripherals to be attached to its USB Type-C port.
 

Zoantharia

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,860
They'll fix the unpatchable hack, the one which you can do by shorting the joy con rail or something. That will be it in terms of hardware revisions. We won't see a new model in a while
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,981
A quietly revised internals version could come at any time, but I don't think it will come with different RAM or clockspeeds, not this early in life. Pushing back my expectations of a truly new model to next calendar year.
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
I can definitely see some small internal changes, but nothing that'll be marketed to the consumer. The T214 Switches will be sold the same as the old ones.
 

DrDamn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
466
They already effectively have two hardware models devs need to optimise for (handheld and docked) - I can't see anything which adds to this being a sensible thing to do. Improve process, costs and non-game performance stuff yes, anything else craziness.
 

BGBW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,280
DS needed a revision. It was ugly compared to the PSP. The Lite is what got the system going.
The 3DS didn't get a revision until the n3DS - over three years later. The 3DS XL was not a revision but an alternative - based on the popularity of the DS XL.

The Switch is selling well so it doesn't need a DS -> Lite transformation. The Switch is big so it doesn't really need an XL alternative. If we're basing it on past models, the signs actually point to no revision.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
Yeah, lol, no. With the current (And foreseeable) RAM prices, any company wanting to make profit would not do a RAM increase that offers no tangible benefit. Ffs, Switch ports of PS4, games are consistently half the size or less, what would you put in all that RAM? What for?
What they will do is shrink the chip to 16nm, fix the security issue and maybe have 1 RAM chip instead of 2, and no consumer will ever tell the change. This is no time for revisions.
Edit: If anything, they'll make a model with expanded storage. Nobody has complained about the RAM, but people have about the storage. A 128GB model that became the new standard would be very welcome, I think.
 
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