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Programming |OT| Functional, Imperative, OOP, Cargo-Cult,... all are welcome!
- Thread starter Moosichu
- Start date
Should everyone be learning and doing all of their asp.net stuff in .net core vs the old web framework?
Old as in webforms? In any case, yes, use .net core. Shouldn't be any reason not to.
I went with ASP.NET for my newest site because Core doesn't natively support LDAP authentication yet.
(pretty sure that's what he was referring to, not webforms)
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A lot of companies still use ASP.NET, webforms etc at least here in Canada. I would invest some time in it. I really like working with C# and ASP.NET. Visual studio is a top notch development environment.
I feel like I may be winging it a bit much in react-redux. Gonna pop back in here with searching for advice since era is blasting the spotlight.
Having done a decent amount of Web Forms myself (including creating custom framework controls), ick. Trying to play by the rules of server-side state and make a responsive (lol), rich experience is super fucking painful.
The newer client-focused frameworks are sooo much nicer. I will say every once in a while I miss a tiny thing here and there about Web Forms, like not being able to lazily cram shit into ViewState, but it's better dead.
Hahahaha
It's easy to tell the people who work in big companies or development studios
Web Forms will outlive all of us
Our team isn't too big, but we have our own Web Forms framework (extensions, custom functionality that we want to share across apps, etc.). We wound up engineering an interesting custom framework/pattern to go forward with. Our lead devs felt that more "pure" MVC still resulted in too much client-server traffic, and they like the responsiveness of SPA apps. On the other hand, they didn't want to be hindered to one "app", or one main network payload when signing in. The result was a hybrid - MVC server-side routing between "features" of an app (each more or less their own SPA), and client-side routing within each feature, and Web API for client-to-server requests. It's definitely pretty cool and has great performance. The big disadvantage for someone like me, though, is if there is something I can't quite figure out, I sure as shit am not getting the answer from Google.
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Ok, so my react-redux question. Not sure how many people in this thread do work in this, but I've got more of a conceptual question than a technical one.
I've got a single page front end written in react-redux. Currently there are container components that get "deployed" by dispatchers based on button being pressed in another component by being appended to an "panel" array in the store. Root app takes this array via map-state-to-props and renders the panels. The classname of the panel components is pulled from a prop called classnamearray which is a string array of different classnames and gets joined at the panel component render into the classname. I did this because I want the classnames to be changeable via redux dispatches. Using this, I have middleware that catches addpanel and update panel actions that iterate over the panel array in the store to change the classname of the panels accordingly (e.g. set panel to minimize, set panel to full, react to responsive web design viewport changes, etc). All of this works, but I wondered if this was a bloated way to implement variable component deployment/sorting/organizing. Is there a better way, or is this generally how people do it? Are there problems that can result in the future from this kind of use?
I've got a single page front end written in react-redux. Currently there are container components that get "deployed" by dispatchers based on button being pressed in another component by being appended to an "panel" array in the store. Root app takes this array via map-state-to-props and renders the panels. The classname of the panel components is pulled from a prop called classnamearray which is a string array of different classnames and gets joined at the panel component render into the classname. I did this because I want the classnames to be changeable via redux dispatches. Using this, I have middleware that catches addpanel and update panel actions that iterate over the panel array in the store to change the classname of the panels accordingly (e.g. set panel to minimize, set panel to full, react to responsive web design viewport changes, etc). All of this works, but I wondered if this was a bloated way to implement variable component deployment/sorting/organizing. Is there a better way, or is this generally how people do it? Are there problems that can result in the future from this kind of use?
I will be the contrarian and state that as an Ops person, I'm pretty content with kubernetes and it's been getting better at a steady clip since I started using it several years ago.
As a dev, I mostly stick to docker, but when I need to model / test against something more integrated minikube generally works pretty nicely for working local to my machine.
That being said, as the new-ish hotness, I know there's a lot of shops flocking to Kubernetes when they really don't need it at all. If that's the spot you're in, my condolences.
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It's nothing as bad as that, I'm mostly just venting. I don't know nearly enough about the system to offer any meaningful criticism, haha. But from my very limited experience, debugging various problems (connection and cert related mostly) in our kubernetes cluster has just been a massive pain, their documentation/api reference seem lackluster and I just.. hate.. the whole yaml format.
That said, putting up a vagrant machine with kubernetes and replicating our test cluster on there (for more in-depth debugging) was tremendously easy and fast, so I can definitely see people falling in love with it when it actually works as intended.
e: also when I posted that I had managed to fix a problem in the cluster I had been working on and off for a couple of days by, of course, rebooting the server machine lol, which is always a bit frustrating. Particularly when I have no idea what the root cause was, and you can't really go and reboot clients' prod servers, so I sure hope this was the last we saw of that particular bug.
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If any of you guys work in visual effects or uses render farms, Sony Imageworks just released its render manager, OpenCue, open source on google cloud platform.
Introducing OpenCue, an open source render manager for media and entertainment
Introducing OpenCue, an open source render manager for media and entertainment
My day job has a legacy java Spring Boot code base, and I do a lot of work with XenForo add-ons (XenForo is a php webframework/forum software suit). I feel that the php stack has less magic in it.
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I'm currently doing a university project with ROS, while working a job where we're building Scala microservices, in large part using Akka.
I know a lot of it is that I am going at the ROS project alone, while I have amazing colleagues at the job, but the ecosystem is truly a mess in comparison. The documentation is all over the place, the tooling is throwing all kinds of stuff in your way...
I assume this is mostly due to comparatively little use in industry, but damn. Really interesting to see how different parts of the CS universe can be.
I know a lot of it is that I am going at the ROS project alone, while I have amazing colleagues at the job, but the ecosystem is truly a mess in comparison. The documentation is all over the place, the tooling is throwing all kinds of stuff in your way...
I assume this is mostly due to comparatively little use in industry, but damn. Really interesting to see how different parts of the CS universe can be.
Not exactly programming, but when you are kinda involved in the entire stack it can be fun to get a SQL job that was taking ~40+ minutes down to sub 6, with it being around a minute if I can get this stupid cursor out and convert everything to set based operations!
Also, does anyone have a good link for some typescript info? I'm thinking that will be my next big step, going pure vanilla and ditching jQuery.
Also, does anyone have a good link for some typescript info? I'm thinking that will be my next big step, going pure vanilla and ditching jQuery.
I've only been working with react-redux for about a year, but what you describe makes sense. From what I understand the entire react / redux functionality was / is optimised to make all the updates work as efficiently as possible. The iteration may in theory be perhaps costly, but I think that you probably don't have hundreds of components or classes that do it with each re-render?
As far as problems are concerned, I am a fan of the following approach: if it works and is not too ugly then let it be. You can always look at it again if there are any actual performance / extension issues in the future, but usually "good enough" solutions are fine from my experience.
Working through Spring now myself. Left school with CS degree but decided to go down the QA route, and then automation...somehow I ended back up doing coding again which I'm finding I enjoy much more than when I was in school.
So while still dusting off the cobwebs of coding in general, I'm currently in middle of putting together an API that interacts with our test automation framework, with another person handling the engine aspect of the framework; I'm working on the back-end stuff at this point w/ Spring. Every day I'm learning more that I don't know enough and shaking my head at what I wrote a few weeks earlier :D.
That's why I love spring. Used to build APIs with servlets on tomcat through a git/maven/jenkins build pipeline that was always a massive pain. It feels so good to just package a jar and run for testing and deploy the jar in a kubernetes pod. Soooo much more fluid. Soooo much easier to slap together backend. I'm in heaven.
Thanks. Alleviates some of my worries. Yeah the design flow is setup to not have more than 15 panels at a time but with dynamic order of them and sizing to facilitate a user's intuition and responsive web design. As someone who most works on the infrastructure end of IT I'm always super wary of making sure procedure is at least close to industry standards just so that updating/refactoring can survive the tide of CI. It's so easy to get stuck in the bad code structure tar pit and I've been at soooooo many companies that live there...
I agree. Structuring of a code and making it easy to understand is the hard part. Especially in case of JS and many of it's frameworks where there are not many conventions. Now this has plus sides, but also makes it difficult to find consistent approaches.
In your case I would maybe consider two things (this of course depends on how it applies in your situation, maybe what you have now is more readable):
1) I would not maybe pass classnames as props, but rather have some boolean values in the store tied to panels (like isMinimized or isExpanded or sth) and based on this apply class names on the component level with help of perhaps something like https://github.com/JedWatson/classnames. This way the class names would be kept closer to the view layer (components) and would not be buried in actions somewhere
2) you mention reacting to viewport changes. Maybe you should consider if that can be handled by css instead of props or JS (with media queries) as for me this is styling concern rather than behavior? If this depends on number of panels displayed at one time, flexbox would be helpful as it is great in dealing with variable number of elements and figuring out how to display them (of course if you don't need to support legacy browsers). Dealing with detecting viewport sizes and handling addition or removal of class names through JS can get messy sometimes.
Of course these are just some pretty blind suggestions. It all depends what your needs are and if what you have now makes sense. If it does, then I would say it is fine. These are just two things that came to my mind :)
This is mostly a complaining post, but I work with Python/Django at work. I like the problems I solve at work, but the Python part is meh. It mostly gets out of my way such that I don't feel like I am programming in Python the way I felt like I was say, doing JavaScript when I did frontend. It worries me a little because for whatever job I have next I a) don't want it to be Python or b) probably couldn't pass a Python interview. However, by now I am rust in all other languages. I'm trying to get myself motivated to learn stuff in my free time but it's usually niche-y stuff like Elixir. Anyone feel this way about the language they use at work?
I think I also should get better at SQL/data modeling. Most of my mess ups at work were because my Django models were poorly designed.
I think I also should get better at SQL/data modeling. Most of my mess ups at work were because my Django models were poorly designed.
I have the opposite opinion. I quite enjoy programming in Python and categorically refuse to program in Javascript. Superficially they aren't all that different, I admit.
I strongly dislike debugging in either language however. This is why I prefer IntelliJ + Java.
Side note
I'm not sure how people do most of their primary coding on a laptop. Not having dual monitors to have my ide/editor on one screen and all my other shit on the other is a killer trying to code on my laptop vs desktop.
I'm not sure how people do most of their primary coding on a laptop. Not having dual monitors to have my ide/editor on one screen and all my other shit on the other is a killer trying to code on my laptop vs desktop.
I can't go back to JavaScript either - I just meant back when I did JS I seemed to care more about learning the language whereas with Python I enjoy using but never read a book about it or try to keep up with the ecosystem. Maybe I'm just not that interested in programming outside of work any more?
I'm learning Python now. Should have years ago but whatever. My impressions so far is that it is basically what JavaScript would be if it were designed a decade later by the people who made Ruby.
I do most of my coding on a laptop, actually, but I do have a docking station that hooks up to two large monitors.
I can't say I like Python very much. JS is just more flexible, you can go in so many ways with the syntax from functional to OOP to aspect to actor-model etc. Python is too restrictively OOP by intent and whitespace sensitive removing much of the stylistic utility and effectively limiting it's express-ability. This can be good when you are mono-lingual, or specifically attached to OOP but it's feels so limiting whereas in JS you can get things like Angular and React living in the same ecosystem even though they are very different beasts structurally. The ability to choose the style for the job is what makes JS so nice to use. I think that's partly way it became so ubiquitous in the first place.
Whenever I don't strongly type shit, I get yelled at by my software architect 😂
Our code contains generics everywhere. Half the time I gotta use reflection to figure out wtf I have. D:
I don't think I explained myself very well in my original comment, sorry - not saying I like Python more or less than JS. I was wondering if anyone else is in a situation where they aren't very knowledgeable or excited about the language they use at work. I find it an awkward position to be in especially if I wanted to start looking for a new job.
In other news, if you want to be sad for me, we don't use TypeScript and are still on Python 2.7... but we have contractors that will work on the Python 3 upgrade... someday. We're testing the waters with microservices as our Django monolith is very tough to work with because of terrible tech decisions made before 99% of the current team joined.
In other news, if you want to be sad for me, we don't use TypeScript and are still on Python 2.7... but we have contractors that will work on the Python 3 upgrade... someday. We're testing the waters with microservices as our Django monolith is very tough to work with because of terrible tech decisions made before 99% of the current team joined.
Why would you need to use reflection? It'd be better to require any calling function to pass in only items that implement a common interface.
macOS makes it really easy to organize things by desktop :shrug:
Generic hell. I was just fighting with our network layer Friday because it has a bunch of different `request` methods, but each one is generic. So on the client side you are forced to explicitly type the promise to get it to compile.
But if you type it with a primitive then the compiler breaks since there's two generic overloads that apply to basic primitives....
Generics are great if you don't overuse them.
Generics can be really annoying. Method signatures can get really ugly really fast if you're using Generics all over the play.
I never really see a need to use generics extensively. Just plain old polymorphism usually does the trick. The only place I ever use it these days is when implementing a custom collection class.
A few years ago, I tried to use generics as a replacement for compile-time templates. The resulting code was bad and it didn't work as powerfully as one would hope.
A few years ago, I tried to use generics as a replacement for compile-time templates. The resulting code was bad and it didn't work as powerfully as one would hope.
What's the difference between Perl, Python, and Bash? I've been running a couple Perl scripts for my job (scientist) on my Windows 10 machine using Bash via the Command Prompt. How do these relate to Python?
Bash is a shell (i.e., command-line interpreter and scripting language) for Unix-like operating systems. Python is an object-oriented scripting language (you probably execute Python scripts by invoking the Python interpreter in a Bash shell). Perl is random strings of ASCII symbols that computers know how to interpret (see also: Haskell, APL).
Maybe I'm obtuse, but how am I using Bash to execute Perl scripts if there is no relation? Like, I use Bash and type in perl script.pl and script.pl executes. Sorry, this is a super rudimentary question I'm sure.
EDIT: Oh I just saw quickly's response. Thanks both of you!
Hey guys/gals, I'm completely new to programming and am curious where the best place to start would be? I'd like to try learning Python 3 but someone mentioned getting a grasp on things like logic first would be ideal, so does anyone have any tips on where to start as a complete beginner?
I think it's best to start with a good introductory book or tutorial. Take advantage of the momentum your newfound interest in programming will give you. You will learn about programming logic as you progress.
I'm very fond of the book Python Crash Course. The author is able to explain concepts in very clear, basic terms, but he doesn't dumb it down. He's also very consistent in the language he uses, which is important to a reader who's trying to learn a new topic. He breaks down each programming example, explaining exactly what's happening. He also provides solutions to the chapter exercises, and has an errata where he updates his examples when necessary (e.g. He updated the examples in his Django chapter when version 2.1.5 was released which included an easier way to define URL patterns).
edit: He also provides practical examples for real world applications like using matplotlib or pygal for data visualizations and developing a web app using Django.
https://ehmatthes.github.io/pcc/index.html
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Python 3 is absolutely the best place to start. There's no value to trying to learn logic first, as it is way easier to learn logic from doing programming rather than the other way round.
A lot of learning resources for Python are aimed at people who have already programmed in something else. The two main ones for absolute beginners are the Crash Course and the Hard Way.
Of these, the Hard Way is aimed at people who have no idea what a computer can do and starts out with the very basics like typing repetitive stuff in - it's kind of like teaching writing by telling you what shape the letters are. My guess is that, since you're posting on a gaming forum, this would be far too simplistic a start for you, so you're probably better off starting with the Crash Course. If you find that too difficult, then take a step back and do it the Hard Way. (There is one called Python 3 for Absolute Beginners, but it doesn't get into the nitty-gritty very quickly, and there's probably a "for Dummies" book somewhere, which is may be OK if you can stand the style).
(There are lots of online things that claim to be suitable for absolute beginners, but I've had a quick poke around and really, there's none that I can see that will get you over that first difficult hump of learning basic programming to start with.)
Different books suggest different software for starting with: the Hard Way pushes using a basic text editor, while the Crash Course pushed something called PyCharm. Ignore both of these, as they just add extra complication when you're starting. When you install Python, it comes bundled with it's own editor/environment thing called IDLE, and that is perfectly fine to use. You don't need to install anything else at all. So just install Python, click on IDLE and you are good to go.
Whatever book you use, type in and experiment with all the examples that the book goes through (Hard Way forces this, Crash Course doesn't but it is a good idea anyway). That's because learning programming is a bit like learning music, you need the practice as well as the theory.
If you can, find someone else to learn with - a friend, sibling, parent, whatever. Even if it's only for the first month or so, this is super helpful. You are bound to get stuck on something trivial early on, but it isn't likely you will both get stuck on the same thing, so you can help each other out. It's possible to find help on the internet of course, but people on the internet can't always pitch their answers a way that you'll understand as a raw beginner. (If you do get stuck, though, this thread is as good a place as any to ask, since we know you and understand where you are coming from!).
Good luck! Go for it and let us know how you get on.
(One more thing. Save a copy of whatever programs you write while you are learning. It is super helpful on the odd occasion when you are finding things hard to look back at some of your previous stuff and realise how much you learned already.)
So I'm taking a computer graphics class this semester in school and I already regret it. I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing, and its not fun at all.
I just need to pass it to graduate.
I just need to pass it to graduate.
Starting a new job in a month and I'll be working on a Python web backend that uses Flask. My current experience (first job) since 1,5 years is with C# and ASP.NET MVC. Any ideas of how much different it will be and how much time I should spend getting up to speed before starting?