Best post of the thread.
As I clarified, I did define recently as since 2016. Dore has been affiliated with TYT since ~ 2009 I believe.
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"Progressive Hero" Cenk Uygur, Gatekeeper to the Land Lefteros, dismayed that Megyn Kelly got fired
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
- Start date
Best post of the thread.
As I clarified, I did define recently as since 2016. Dore has been affiliated with TYT since ~ 2009 I believe.
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i still don't understand how this is true. anyone want to explain it for me?
- Her firing is only going to shut down discussion about the issues of why blackface is wrong
- Would have preferred an open discussion why its wrong to inform Americans.
This is the part of it that I, at least, take issue with
How the fuck does anyone in the year of our lord twenty fucking eighteen not know the issues of why blackface is wrong for any other reason than refusing to give a damn in the first place. Someone Megan Kelly's age, who has traffic'd in this specific discourse -- both the attempt to normalize blackface and giving half-assed non-apologies when called out for it -- has no excuse. I don't think her show's failing ratings can be separated from her history of proffering opinions such as these. This discussion happens every fucking year, and the only reason people still do it is that they don't want to listen. Fuck 'em.
How the fuck does anyone in the year of our lord twenty fucking eighteen not know the issues of why blackface is wrong for any other reason than refusing to give a damn in the first place. Someone Megan Kelly's age, who has traffic'd in this specific discourse -- both the attempt to normalize blackface and giving half-assed non-apologies when called out for it -- has no excuse. I don't think her show's failing ratings can be separated from her history of proffering opinions such as these. This discussion happens every fucking year, and the only reason people still do it is that they don't want to listen. Fuck 'em.
Can you point me where you refuted what was actually said in the video?
The most I can see you disagreeing over Cenk's opinion is:
But that is discussing the tweet (which you can only elaborate only so much on in 140 char) and not actually where he explains why he believes that, in the video.
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He was crazy before 2016
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jimmy_Dore
In fact his 9/11 trutherness goes back to 2009 too
nothing strange about it. It's obviously profit motivated.
Further, I really don't know how may more open, nationwide discussions we need about why blackface is bad. It's bad. What more do you need to know about it?
People who are ok with blackface aren't ok about it because they don't know any better, they're ok with blackface because they harbor racist ideas or views. It's not surprising Megyn Kelly doesn't see what the big deal is about blackface when she has a history of making similarly racist comments.
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Literally in the post you have now quoted me twice from. lol
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Oh no he knows she's a racist, he even says NBC should never have hired her but since they did they shouldn't fire her for being a racist....
Because you know reasons.
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Just for the record repeating that he disagrees with Kelly doesn't make him arguing she shouldn't face consequences like losing her job ok.\
Like that's not actually a defense.
Like that's not actually a defense.
I'll be honest, I myself had to dig into the history of why blackface is contentious. I was uneducated on it. I knew THAT it was contentious but I honestly couldn't tell you the WHYS surrounding its bad.
But the issue is, I'm not looking to have that conversation with with fucking Fox News alum the likes of Megyn. Not with her loooooong track record of saying horrible shit. She ain't here to learn a goddamn thing
As to Blader and muteKi I fully agree people should be more informed and I wish that it was the case we had a populous that cared about these issues. As mentioned to Slayven earlier, while we may know more because we are informed and care for these issues, I highly doubt the average American does.
I highly doubt even most of my immigrated family from Asia knows much about blackface at all and what it even means. I don't mean to say that they are ignorant around the facts, it's just these important issues aren't given enough limelight. That's just my family alone if I were being honest and I would consider us to be left leaning as a whole to be frank, but outside of just my family there are people that don't tune in to the news, aren't educated, or just don't care.
I would imagine there are a lot of people that don't realize this is a problem.
I highly doubt even most of my immigrated family from Asia knows much about blackface at all and what it even means. I don't mean to say that they are ignorant around the facts, it's just these important issues aren't given enough limelight. That's just my family alone if I were being honest and I would consider us to be left leaning as a whole to be frank, but outside of just my family there are people that don't tune in to the news, aren't educated, or just don't care.
I would imagine there are a lot of people that don't realize this is a problem.
He is in this specific inference -- that she's being fired or silenced for a single incident rather than her decades of highly questionable beliefs. She shouldn't have been hired in the first place.
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And how does keeping Kelly on the air to be the counterpoint to blackface is racist help the conversation...
NBC not continuing the conversation is not connected to Megs.
A fair point, but let me make another one.
CNN knew she was a racist when she was hired, she was on Fox news for all those years for godsakes, despite what went on there. And at the time, most of us, including Cenk himself called out CNN for the right wingification of "mainstream media".
My problem is the same as Cenk's in this specific position in that if your going to go through the effort of doing that and something outrageous like this takes places, you should atleast have her explain herself on national television and make the dialogue with the people who are pissed off instead of immediately folding, making her into a martyr in the "fake news conspiracy" when they were the ones who engaged with her in the first place with an abusrd contract just because of the roger ailes/rupert murdoch bullshit.
Secondly, the reason i give Cenk a defense here and call you out is because TYT and Cenk himself are the loudest ones dunking on white folks privilege and racism every day on the show, as someone who watches it. So your thread of making the implication that he is somehow not a progressive or is race baiting because he says one contrary opinion whether Kelley should be immediately fired or not is something i don't really accept.
I hope i made my views clear and didn't flub what i was trying to say
Oh, ok. "Sarcasm" was your answer. Didn't know that was actually what you were going with, my bad.
Hard for me to have a discussion around that.
you could, you know, educated them. instead of megyn kelly.
she got fired from a company for what she said while she was in the employ of that company, Cenk disagrees with that particular decision...but he knows exactly what she said in the employ of another company, so he's ignoring it here because it's irrelevant
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What?
Those are all directly addressing your bullet points of doom.
Dude read. You now read that post 3 times and failed to see the obvious.
Well, I'm no fan of TYT (I don't think I've ever watched their show), but I found that surprising because of their alleged progressiveness, so I went on a little Google adventure... turns out he rescinded this statement and even referred to the genocide a few times since. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNzucJGfYGc is an example, apparently (haven't watched it, it's from Wikipedia)
Just FYI. Doubt that'll change your mind but I just thought it was interesting.
Yea its hard to keep up with your posts when you make so many different claims with outlandish statements.
Your points:
- Disagree that she should have not lost her job
- Disagree keeping her would have produced meaningful discourse
- Disagree that we need to have open debate on blackface
Point two: At lot of discussion over blackface was already had within just these forums, even my university class, or just the general media, so it did bring a lot of discourse. Keeping her could have continued that discussion, but here we are today discussing someone else's (Cenks) opinion on the firing. Which to me isn't even a big deal because its one dude, and he made some great arguments as to why.
Point three: I haven't heard much debate on blackface being good or bad, maybe on the right leaning news sites. Even FOX agrees what she said was bad, but lets be honest if FOX really cared about her racist remarks, she would have been fired long ago, them disagreeing is just the nature of business.
So the main meat of why you disagree stems from point 1 and 2, but two has already been disproved since the first days news cycle of this event.
As I said, I just find it hard to believe someone would be so up in arms even down to point of making such a slanted thread title without hearing the context from Cenk.
"Keeping her could have continued that discussion"
no it wouldn't. she already "apologized". nbc would want to bury that shit asap. it would move from why blackface is bad to why isn't megyn kelly fired. at least now that she's gone people can put 1 and 1 together to get blackface = lose your job bad.
no it wouldn't. she already "apologized". nbc would want to bury that shit asap. it would move from why blackface is bad to why isn't megyn kelly fired. at least now that she's gone people can put 1 and 1 together to get blackface = lose your job bad.
Her show was a train wreck when she could have just coasted and had a cushy morning job. She wasn't dropped just because of her remarks. She was dropped because of her ratings, her constantly putting her foot in her mouth, her total lack of charisma, and her baggage. Meg knows how to sound hard-hitting and have a stern face. That doesn't make for good morning television. They'll just shove her somewhere else and she can pretend she is doing "serious" work.
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1. No he doesn't, he doesn't make a logical argument at all, he literally argues some sort of magical thinking where a slimy racist being allowed to keep her platform will somehow produce a discussion that opens the minds of Americans who apparently golly gee just don't know that blackface is racist, but gosh if they just keep Kelly on the show they'd learn somehow. Like he literally says they should never have hired her because she's racist but then says but now she should keep her job despite being racist.
Keeping a racist on TV will not making discussion racism more fruitful. that NBC failed to keep the conversation going is separate from Megs, 2 hasn't been disproven
As for 3: dude the Kelly thing was literally her debating blackface.... this is what this is all about.
The funniest thing of all he knows that she really is getting fired because no one is watching her show, but he still wants her to keep her show.... because he thinks it will produce some sort of groundbreaking dialogue.
We don't need progressives going to bat for moron racists who they humbly disagree with out of some distorted principle of conversation, conversation that will never happen with them anyway.
Ohhh... I've never seen this. Yeah, Cenk refers to the Armenian genocide explicitly and criticizes Erodgan as being a hypocrite for not recognizing it while trying to call out genocide in Myanmar. Thanks for posting it.
This should put the "Cenk Uygur is an Armenian genocide denier" thing to bed.
But there are other problematic things about Cenk that I still give him the side-eye on (like his statements in the video in the OP of this topic).
I mean at this point as to what the future holds, we don't know for certain how it would have played out.
She even had Ronald Martin on her show here he said:
Interviewing prominent Black voices like Martin to illuminate and educate why its bad was definitely a step in the right direction after the debacle.
That said while I do think there could have been continued discourse as to what she was attempting, her time was up. Fucked up way too many times before this.
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Fire the racist, give the time slot to a black person who can bring these issues to the forefront.
Like do you think Megs' heart is going to grow three times bigger after talking to a black person or something?
She is not required and she will actually be a determent, performative "I hear you moments" or not.
Pundits love defending pundits doing punditry because that's their bread and butter. Holding people accountable for being a shitty mouthpiece is antithetical to the entire business model
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yeah no shit. that was one of the two videos i had posted that went ignored by you
Hey, maybe she could've done a series: "Do black lives really matter?", "Black people: Man or Monkey?"
Yeah, I don't see a reason to have a racist hosting a conversation about whether or not an indisputably racist act is racist. It's not a two sided conversation.
Yeah, I don't see a reason to have a racist hosting a conversation about whether or not an indisputably racist act is racist. It's not a two sided conversation.
Yea that would be an ideal solution but at the same time we are only talking about this on a national scale because it was Kelly who said this. Part of the problem is that there aren't enough black and diverse journalists that have been given the opportunity to be leading voices outside of say Lemon of CNN and few others.
But those are already established voices and already belong to a network, finding someone that could bring and discuss the issues as much attention as to what Kelly did in the past couple days would be a hard find.
There's doesn't need to be a discussion on blackface. The issue is pretty much settled. Kind of like cross burning and lynching.
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eh bullshit, Kelly didn't spark anything new and keeping her would not have sparked anything new,
There's no logical reason to connect Kelly as having played some sort of meaningful role in this
Arguably firing her made a clearer message about it beign racist then keeping her on to let her dance around and perform.
what if she asked "is it wrong to sing racial slurs at a concert if they're in the lyrics?" imagine that fantastic discourse she could have created that could educate the people in her studio audience plus 12 others watching at home. nbc should be ashamed. well more ashamed.
You don't need to be tuned into the news to know that blackface is racist any more than you need to watch the news to know that the Klan was racist. It's not like blackface is a recent phenomenon. I take the point about your family, but again, most people who don't think blackface is a problem don't hold that view because they're oblivious to the country's history of racism -- they hold that view because that kind of casual racism is ok with them.
Why doesn't there need to be a discussion on blackface? Even if there was discussion on why it's wrong, that would let people understand why it's so. You or I may know the history behind it, but even as Martin says:
Theres so many responses that took precedence and for the most part it seems like in regards to yours, we just don't know how the discourse could have swayed had she stayed.
imagine thinking there's discussion to be had about blackface in 2018 (even though it's very much discussed). just shut that shit down.
By shutting it down only leads to more uneducated and uninformed masses. Why would we want that?
willfully uninformed. this shit is a cycle that never ends, so fuck them.
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Again firing Megs didn't need to be a shut down of the conversation, the conversation that literally only needs to be yes it's racist, no Meggy "Are you sure? Kelly needed.... That NBC is chickenshit doesn't reflect that booting Kelly was the right thing to do.
yes because networks and personalities love dwelling on their fuck ups
I disagree with that. Letting people know why its racist is very important. Just telling someone something is wrong, changes nothing and offers nothing.
But as we both agree, probably not best from Kelly, glad we see eye to eye on that at least.
Hey it worked for FOX and their demographic, Kelly left largely because of O'reillys sexual harassment. NBC wanted that pie they thought she could offer and as Subba says she just didn't bring enough to them.
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To condemn an entire organization over a couple of people seems incredibly silly imo. There are plenty of people at TYT and its branches who are doing great work. Some people really seem to hate Cenk and TYT with a passion, huh lol.
This is no longer the case. Here's Ana Kasparian talking about that.