"Progressive Hero" Cenk Uygur, Gatekeeper to the Land Lefteros, dismayed that Megyn Kelly got fired

Deleted member 4346 · Oct 26, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
Neither is Cenk an ally.

I agree.

Brian McDoogle said:
Goldfish memory: Wow, CNN handles things terribly from time to time, but they did a good job on this particular thing so we should give them some faint praise.

Not goldfish memory: Sure, one of the prominent people is a 9/11 conspiracy truther who peddled Seth Rich conspiracy stuff, and the main guy denied (denies?) the Armenian genocide, but whatever.

I loathe Jimmy Dore. He's a lunatic, I said it earlier in the thread. I agree with posters who say that keeping Dore is an indictment of the network, in part. It's long past time for him to go.

As far as the Armenian genocide denial by Cenk, while his denial statement kind of sucked, there's no evidence that he still holds that position.

I also dispute your "faint praise" argument when it comes to CNN. The praise has been pretty effusive at times. And I can't think of a long-time CNN anchor who has earned that.

Kirblar · Oct 26, 2018

Boiled Goose said:
At this point this is a slanderous smear. Smh. :/

https://web.archive.org/web/2016091...04/22/rescinding-daily-pennsylvanian-article/

Super Corpse Soldier · Oct 26, 2018

Blader said:
These people get shit on all the time here. It's not 100 percent across the board; some posters are harsher on them than others, some are more likely to praise them than others. Usually they'll get shit on when they deserve it and praised for when they deserve it. Which I think is exactly the kind of treatment that people in here are arguing TYT should be receiving too?

Well that's what I mean. I don't consider that kind of constant, useless panel discussions to be a meaningful promotion of liberal policy positions. Outlets like Vox or Crooked are what I'd consider to be actual 'liberal media.'

People will complain about CNN having Cory Lewandowski and Jeffry Lord on and other Trump voices, but the more popular hosts rarely get criticism for their part in all this mess. You would be hard pressed to find a single negative post about Cooper for example when he spent 2016 playing pattycakes with republicans and only doing his job when it came to democratic candidates. But the second he rolls his eyes at Kellyanne Conway holy shit that's HYPE.

Boiled Goose · Oct 26, 2018

Midnight Jon said:
I mean, my whole point here is that Dore is a clown peddling in conspiracies to the detriment of the entire network's credibility more than he's genuinely left

You don't see people clowning on Current Affairs, Jacobin, or most of The Intercept to nearly this extent and they're arguably further left on average

Ok. So you admit that the post you wasn't inaccurate then? Because now you have shifted the argument.

I never said Dore wasn't a clown or wasn't detrimental. That has now become your argument when it was initially about politics

Alucrid · Oct 26, 2018

i like how cenk completely missed the fact that they did talk about it on air

and then they fired her

Boiled Goose · Oct 26, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
Jim Dore is a 9/11 Truther and Seth Rich truther a general batshit conspiracy theorist and Cenk denied genocide in the past and his apology for that was pretty weak sauce....

You define truth very strangely friendo.

I clearly bolded the latter point. Not sure why you brought up the Dore stuff.

Kirblar · Oct 26, 2018

Boiled Goose said:
I clearly bolded the latter point. Not sure why you brought up the Dore stuff.

Because Cenk runs TYT and continues to give him a platform.

Brian McDoogle · Oct 26, 2018

I guess this was his statement from 2 years ago, in response to his letters published in 1991 and 1999, so after all that time:
https://tytnetwork.com/2016/04/22/rescinding-daily-pennsylvanian-article/

He rescinds his comments, but ends with this:

My mistake at the time was confusing myself for a scholar of history, which I most certainly am not. I don't want to make the same mistake again, so I am going to refrain from commenting on the topic of the Armenian Genocide, which I do not know nearly enough about.

So he doesn't say that the Armenian Genocide happened, just that he's not going to comment on it any further because he's not a scholar of history. I think my question mark at the end of the word denies stands since when given the chance to put an end to it, he just took back comments and punted on the issue.

Boiled Goose said:
I clearly bolded the latter point. Not sure why you brought up the Dore stuff.

The reason I brought up the Dore stuff is that certain people keep saying this board hates TYT for nebulous "reasons" of that may or may not have happened 2-ish years ago, when there's a lot of other stuff. People wanted examples, they've been given, and now it's been treated as not germane to discussion.

Vector · Oct 26, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
So racists should get to keep their jobs saying racists things on TV because we can't discuss racism without platforming racists?

The problem is that there wasn't any discussion. What Megyn Kelly did was wrong - she's a despicable person - but they should have talked about it on-air instead of outright censoring her. Explain why a certain thing is bad and should be discouraged, don't just censor it out.

tatsu123 said:
I'm definitely on board. They can be right sometimes, but they REALLY come off as whining douchebags. Especially Cenk. And that's not what i personally want to hear. I want a fight. Not babies.

Kamala Harris for President

They're not "whining douchebags" - they constantly voice their disdain that Democrats aren't as tough as they should be and are even running attack ads against Republicans. They're among the most "aggressive" left-wing organizations in terms of politics and ideology.

legacyzero · Oct 26, 2018

Raster said:
Why would we be on board with that? I haven't seen anything shady about TYT.

And Cenk is right here.

But he's not right. Like at all. Not legally, and certainly not socially.

Also, pretending that somebody like Megyn Kelly is willing to have a good faith conversation and turn around on her shitty views has been repeatedly proven to be untrue over and over again in the past. She has consistently said hateful shit over the years. This isn't censorship. This is the rest of the sane telling her that she needs to fuck right off. Same for Alex Jones.

I commonly agree with TYT and most of their affiliates (Kyle and Sam mostly. Jimmy needs to fuck off too, especially after his bullshit harassment of a Woman journalist in her DMs.)

excelsiorlef · Oct 26, 2018

Brian McDoogle said:
I guess this was his statement from 2 years ago, in response to his letters published in 1991 and 1999, so after all that time:
https://tytnetwork.com/2016/04/22/rescinding-daily-pennsylvanian-article/

He rescinds his comments, but ends with this:

So he doesn't say that the Armenian Genocide happened, just that he's not going to comment on it any further because he's not a scholar of history. I think my question mark at the end of the word denies stands since when given the chance to put an end to it, he just took back comments and punted on the issue.

Yeah that's called a saving face apology.... a transparently bad one at that.

Midnight Jon · Oct 26, 2018

Boiled Goose said:
Ok. So you admit that the post you wasn't inaccurate then? Because now you have shifted the argument.

Ironic, given that you keep shifting these threads from "why is Dore still employed" to "how dare anyone criticize TYT for still employing Dore, I thought y'all were LEFT"

But yeah, based on what I know about Dore's opinions and general behavior he's absolutely not the furthest-left of even the regular hosts

Bonafide · Oct 26, 2018

Fork said:
Jesus the vitriol in this thread towards TYT is surprising. Yeah Jimmy Dore is a shithead and Cenk can have bad takes sometimes but acting like the whole organization is poison is not a nuanced take.

Many of their reporters are competent people and they can talk about the issues pretty well. They had Kyle Kulinski a few days ago and Cenk, Ana and him had interesting discussions. TYT has flaws and I wouldnt say that they are an excellent news source but they are certainly better than the rest of mainstream media.

It's pretty crazy, but I think this is to be expected to happen to most orgs that hit the democrats from the left at this point. You got folks saying TYT doesn't dedicate time on racism/sexism now. Cenk and them could be posting here and most of these critics wouldn't even notice.

Boiled Goose · Oct 26, 2018

Brian McDoogle said:
I've asked in the past if he admits it happened, and I have only gotten vague responses that he regrets the letters to papers in the past, not that he categorically believes the Armenian Genocide happened. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong. There's tons of videos on this. Including two videos explicitly addressing this
The fact that this continues to be brought up shows that it's irrelevant how many times it's corrected.

Want similar fuel?
He was also a republican and had sexist views and didn't believe Anita Hill at the time.

excelsiorlef · Oct 26, 2018

Raster said:
The problem is that there wasn't any discussion. What Megyn Kelly did was wrong - she's a despicable person - but they should have talked about it on-air instead of outright censoring her. Explain why a certain thing is bad and should be discouraged, don't just censor it out.

What's that have to do with not firing her.

Cenk wants her to keep her job, to be kept on air as part of the conversation.

NBC not having the conversation is entirely unrelated to them firing Megs...

But lol at calling this censoring her.

UnpopularBlargh · Oct 26, 2018

Poodlestrike said:
Saw this but debated whether or not it was worth sharing with anybody. We're all on board with the fact that Cenk and TYT are a collection of jackasses, right?

Ana and Mankiewicz are alright. Also Piker. Though I pretty much gave up on the channel as a whole last federal election.

Boiled Goose · Oct 26, 2018

Kirblar said:
Because Cenk runs TYT and continues to give him a platform.

My response wasn't about Dore. It was about the Smear. Because someone gives a platform to someone who you think shouldn't, it's fair game to slander them with lies?

That's your response??

Brian McDoogle · Oct 26, 2018

Boiled Goose said:
You're wrong. There's tons of videos on this. Including two videos explicitly addressing this
The fact that this continues to be brought up shows that it's irrelevant how many times it's corrected.

Want similar fuel?
He was also a republican and had sexist views and didn't believe Anita Hill at the time.

Can you provide a link or something then, because all I've been given in the past was his statement in print I posted earlier.

Deleted member 4274 · Oct 26, 2018

Raster said:
The problem is that there wasn't any discussion. What Megyn Kelly did was wrong - she's a despicable person - but they should have talked about it on-air instead of outright censoring her. Explain why a certain thing is bad and should be discouraged, don't just censor it out.

They're not "whining douchebags" - they constantly voice their disdain that Democrats aren't as tough as they should be and are even running attack ads against Republicans. They're among the most "aggressive" left-wing organizations in terms of politics and ideology.

They absolutely are whiney douchebags. Personally I can barely stand them even when I agree, which is most of the time. But they LITERALLY weep, moan and gnash teeth in real-time. There's no professionalism in their "journalism". I'm fine with opinions but they make me cringe. And Cenk be on some bullshit a lot of the time.

Boiled Goose · Oct 26, 2018

Midnight Jon said:
Ironic, given that you keep shifting these threads from "why is Dore still employed" to "how dare anyone criticize TYT for still employing Dore, I thought y'all were LEFT"

I admitted I could be wrong. Then you implied I wasn't but can't actually admit it. Sorry but that's pretty weak on your part.

Where have I said TYT shouldn't be criticized for hosting Dore? You're attacking a strawman .

Vector · Oct 26, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
What's that have to do with not firing her.

Cenk wants her to keep her job, to be kept on air as part of the conversation.

NBC not having the conversation is entirely unrelated to them firing Megs...

But lol at calling this censoring her.

Cenk's tweet sounds like he wanted NBC to have Kelly either apologize or double down, in which case her getting fired would be absolutely okay and justified.

He says it because he too said a lot of ignorant things and can actually empathize with Kelly.

Kirblar · Oct 26, 2018

Boiled Goose said:
My response wasn't about Dore. It was about the Smear. Because someone gives a platform to someone who you think shouldn't, it's fair game to slander them with lies?

That's your response??

The article has been posted at least twice now in which he disavows the earlier articles yet does not state that he believes it happened. It's ok to be wrong, and learn from mistakes. The letter, however, indicates that he thinks his mistake was telling people his opinion, rather than what his opinion was.

excelsiorlef · Oct 26, 2018

"Cenk is a former republican who used to shit on Ainita Hill and denied genocide who sort of being a leftist but also goes to bat for Megyn Kelly to keep her job, it's totally slander and a smear to say he's a bit shit."

Blackflag · Oct 26, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
Lol. It's 2018 and the solution to racism on TV according to Cenk is to hold no one accountable for it.

Worth keeping this in mind next time someone says Cenk and TYT, who still employ insane Jim Dore, are a crecible progressive alternative media source.

"We need more racists on TV"

Madison · Oct 26, 2018

Midnight Jon said:
Ironic, given that you keep shifting these threads from "why is Dore still employed" to "how dare anyone criticize TYT for still employing Dore, I thought y'all were LEFT"

I doubt that any of the people defending TYT give a shit about Dore. Goose dislikes him, I dislike him, it is a problem. But thats not the main discussion happening here.

Deleted member 4346 · Oct 26, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
Jim Dore is a 9/11 Truther and Seth Rich truther a general batshit conspiracy theorist and Cenk denied genocide in the past and his apology for that was pretty weak sauce....

You define truth very strangely friendo.

Kirblar said:
https://web.archive.org/web/2016091...04/22/rescinding-daily-pennsylvanian-article/

Brian McDoogle said:
I guess this was his statement from 2 years ago, in response to his letters published in 1991 and 1999, so after all that time:
https://tytnetwork.com/2016/04/22/rescinding-daily-pennsylvanian-article/

He rescinds his comments, but ends with this:

So he doesn't say that the Armenian Genocide happened, just that he's not going to comment on it any further because he's not a scholar of history. I think my question mark at the end of the word denies stands since when given the chance to put an end to it, he just took back comments and punted on the issue.

I too don't like Cenk's apology on his past denial of the Armenian genocide. Unfortunately in 2016 we nominated a Democratic presidential candidate who also wasn't clear on that being a genocide, and I voted for that person, as did most of us. It's disgraceful that denial of the Armenian genocide, or equivocating about the events that occurred, is still a thing on the American left. We have to do better. Cenk Uygur should make a more clear statement addressing and naming the Armenian genocide explicitly to clear up his stance.

Midnight Jon · Oct 26, 2018

Boiled Goose said:
I admitted I could be wrong. Then you implied I wasn't but can't actually admit it. Sorry but that's pretty weak on your part.

Buddy, don't try to make this about me. You're the one who came in here claiming everyone had "unnuanced hatred for TYT" after more than a dozen posts were already made specifically naming Dore (i.e., you were wrong in the first place), and you're the one claiming Dore's the furthest-left person on the network like his behavior doesn't indicate otherwise (i.e., what I know about the network leans toward that being an incorrect statement but I get my leftist media from more complex sources so I don't have expert knowledge)

Fork said:
I doubt that any of the people defending TYT give a shit about Dore. Goose dislikes him, I dislike him, it is a problem. But thats not the main discussion happening here.

The main discussions happening here are
1) Uygur apparently deciding to die on the Megyn Kelly Shouldn't Be Deplatformed hill
2) Dore still being employed by TYT isn't Uygur's fault
3) Uygur has apparently recanted his earlier denial of the Armenian genocide

(You'll notice I'm not taking any issue with anything Apharmd is posting in defense of TYT. You might wanna ask yourselves why!)

excelsiorlef · Oct 26, 2018

Raster said:
Cenk's tweet sounds like he wanted NBC to have Kelly either apologize or double down, in which case her getting fired would be absolutely okay and justified.

He says it because he too said a lot of ignorant things and can actually empathize with Kelly.

Maybe he should have more empathy for Black folk who don't want to see rich white ladies getting paid to ague racism isn't racism on National TV in the name of having a conversation that doesn't need to be even had with the racist white lady getting millions there.

Maybe.

Super Corpse Soldier · Oct 26, 2018

Apharmd said:
I too don't like Cenk's apology on his past denial of the Armenian genocide. Unfortunately in 2016 we nominated a Democratic presidential candidate who also wasn't clear on that being a genocide, and I voted for that person, as did most of us. It's disgraceful that denial of the Armenian genocide, or equivocating about the events that occurred, is still a thing on the American left. We have to do better. Cenk Ugyur should make a more clear statement addressing and naming the Armenian genocide explicitly to clear up his stance.

What are you talking about?

Brian McDoogle · Oct 26, 2018

It's sad it can't just be said that what he's said in the past is bad without tying it to 2016.

Enjoy your day, folks.

excelsiorlef · Oct 26, 2018

Apharmd said:
I too don't like Cenk's apology on his past denial of the Armenian genocide. Unfortunately in 2016 we nominated a Democratic presidential candidate who also wasn't clear on that being a genocide, and I voted for that person, as did most of us. It's disgraceful that denial of the Armenian genocide, or equivocating about the events that occurred, is still a thing on the American left. We have to do better. Cenk Uygur should make a more clear statement addressing and naming the Armenian genocide explicitly to clear up his stance.

I'd prefer if he just stopped being a 2 cent pundit, dissipated into the shadows and let more talented people run TYT... probably should rebrand too tbh but yeah.

Deleted member 4346 · Oct 26, 2018

Super Corpse Soldier said:
What are you talking about?

https://www.newsweek.com/hillarys-shifting-stance-armenian-genocide-324799

Obama as well:

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/511/recognize-armenian-genocide/

Turkey is an important ally so, for political convenience, the language used around what happened has been... muted... at points. None of this excuses Cenk's shitty-ass denial or his half-apology. I'm just pointing out that this has been a problem among Democrats in general.

excelsiorlef said:
I'd prefer if he just stopped being a 2 cent pundit, dissipated into the shadows and let more talented people run TYT... probably should rebrand too tbh but yeah.

Yeah. I think the network would be better off if someone with less baggage ran it.

Brinbe · Oct 26, 2018

Is he a moron? The reason why she was moved off mornings is that no one watches her shit, not solely because of her comment. Cenk continues to prove he's a fucking idiot.

Boiled Goose · Oct 26, 2018

Brian McDoogle said:
Can you provide a link or something then, because all I've been given in the past was his statement in print I posted earlier.

Just find any video on Uygur criticizing Erdogans hypocrisy or find the two videos by Kasparian on this specific topic. I want you to actually do the research and watch the actual videos yourself. There's a ton of propaganda out there. It's important to be able to determine what's actually real.

Quixzlizx · Oct 26, 2018

I don't understand how some people are trying to quarantine Jimmy Dore from the rest of TYT, like he's just one bad apple to be ignored. It's not like we're talking about having an American citizen deported to a deserted island. Dore is not an inevitable, inviolable presence at TYT. The only reason he is still employed there is because TYT leadership (Cenk?) wants him to be there.

Kirblar · Oct 26, 2018

Apharmd said:
https://www.newsweek.com/hillarys-shifting-stance-armenian-genocide-324799

Obama as well:

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/511/recognize-armenian-genocide/

Turkey is an important ally so, for political convenience, the language used around what happened has been... muted... at points. None of this excuses Cenk's shitty-ass denial or his half-apology. I'm just pointing out that this has been a problem among Democrats in general.

This is an unfortunate reality of becoming the top Diplomat or President. Your hands get tied by the realpolitik required. Same reason we've got the whole Taiiwan/Chinese Taipei nonsense. It's not a problem among Democrats, it's a problem of having to deal with foreign countries with massive sore spots who get butthurt if you don't deny reality.

Boiled Goose · Oct 26, 2018

Kirblar said:
The article has been posted at least twice now in which he disavows the earlier articles yet does not state that he believes it happened. It's ok to be wrong, and learn from mistakes. The letter, however, indicates that he thinks his mistake was telling people his opinion, rather than what his opinion was.

Ok so now, you just ignore my points without admitting you were wrong. Ok. Moving on to the next whack a mole.

There is far more than the article that makes his current views explicitly clear. To keep bringing this up is basically shameless slander at this point .

PixelatedProphet · Oct 26, 2018

Kirblar said:
Its the excuse they needed.

Because they employ terrible people like Cenk and Dore.

Cenk co-createdThe Young Turks so i doubt he could be fired.

Goat Mimicry · Oct 26, 2018

Raster said:
The problem is that there wasn't any discussion. What Megyn Kelly did was wrong - she's a despicable person - but they should have talked about it on-air instead of outright censoring her. Explain why a certain thing is bad and should be discouraged, don't just censor it out.

But she already knew that blackface is bad.

Blindy · Oct 26, 2018

Guessing he's coming from the mentality of making her earn her money by facing the public and facing the scrutiny rather than give her the money and allow her to fade into obscurity or have her cater to a certain demographic. He's not wrong if so. Firing her is an easy way out if she is getting the full payment, let her face the music and after her contracts ends, don't renew and cut ties.

Boiled Goose · Oct 26, 2018

Midnight Jon said:
Buddy, don't try to make this about me. You're the one who came in here claiming everyone had "unnuanced hatred for TYT" after more than a dozen posts were already made specifically naming Dore (i.e., you were wrong in the first place), and you're the one claiming Dore's the furthest-left person on the network like his behavior doesn't indicate otherwise (i.e., what I know about the network leans toward that being an incorrect statement but I get my leftist media from more complex sources so I don't have expert knowledge)

The main discussions happening here are
1) Uygur apparently deciding to die on the Megyn Kelly Shouldn't Be Deplatformed hill
2) Dore still being employed by TYT isn't Uygur's fault
3) Uygur has apparently recanted his earlier denial of the Armenian genocide

(You'll notice I'm not taking any issue with anything Apharmd is posting in defense of TYT. You might wanna ask yourselves why!)

Convinient crop. I think pointing to Dore as a criticism is legitimate. Yet I still think that it's not only unnuanced, but hypocritical and dishonest. Dore going looney on Rich ( and other things) is a relatively recent issue on the timeline of tyt hatred. I guess it's good to have a legitimate reason now?

excelsiorlef · Oct 26, 2018

Boiled Goose said:
Convinient crop. I think pointing to Dore as a criticism is legitimate. Yet I still think that it's not only unnuanced, but hypocritical and dishonest. Dore going looney on Rich ( and other things) is a relatively recent issue on the timeline of tyt hatred. I guess it's good to have a legitimate reason now?

Umm Dore has been shit forever, dude's an accelerationist on top of a crazy conspiracy moron

Kirblar · Oct 26, 2018

PixelatedProphet said:
Cenk co-createdThe Young Turks so i doubt he could be fired.

Probably depends on how the financing is structured nowadays after all that external investment.

excelsiorlef · Oct 26, 2018

Blindy said:
Guessing he's coming from the mentality of making her earn her money by facing the public and facing the scrutiny rather than give her the money and allow her to fade into obscurity or have her cater to a certain demographic. He's not wrong if so. Firing her is an easy way out if she is getting the full payment, let her face the music and after her contracts ends, don't renew and cut ties.

That's fucking stupid, Megs has no shame, she'd just happily take money and the contunued platform to spread more racism....

Blindy · Oct 26, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
That's fucking stupid, Megs has no shame, she'd just happily take money and the contunued platform to spread more racism....

What is "Fucking" stupid about it?

Why allow her to double dip? She's locked into a contract, let her reputation plummet some more instead of firing her if she's getting the full payment. Firing her and giving her the full payment allows her to make more money no?

Firing her gives her an out saying she didn't leave on her own and makes her a martyr to some unfortunately. Hell, if anything take away power from her on this show some more and let her be a bystander on her show if you want to punish her.

sapien85 · Oct 26, 2018

Lundren said:
The United States Census Bureau defines white people as those "having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa."

That's interesting. I wonder what original even means and what the cut off date is. Turks are not originally from the Middle East. But if you go far back enough everyone came from Africa so.

excelsiorlef · Oct 26, 2018

Blindy said:
What is "Fucking" stupid about it?

Why allow her to double dip? She's locked into a contract, let her reputation plummet some more instead of firing her if she's getting the full payment. Firing her and giving her the full payment allows her to make more money no?

Because putting her on air to continue her nonsense is stupid?!

Let's keep a racist in our airwaves to own the Cons, that'll learn them something good.

legacyzero · Oct 26, 2018

Quixzlizx said:
I don't understand how some people are trying to quarantine Jimmy Dore from the rest of TYT, like he's just one bad apple to be ignored. It's not like we're talking about having an American citizen deported to a deserted island. Dore is not an inevitable, inviolable presence at TYT. The only reason he is still employed there is because TYT leadership (Cenk?) wants him to be there.

You're totally right.

Just days after Jimmy spewed hatred for hours in a female journalist's Twitter inbox, Jimmy put up this "in too passionate sometimes" apology, Cenk RT'd it

PixelatedProphet · Oct 26, 2018

Jimmy is a idiot who pushes dumb conspiracy theory's. Most people on TYT disagree with him and have have fights with him on air. So why keep him employed?

Blindy · Oct 26, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
Because putting her on air to continue her nonsense is stupid?!

Let's keep a racist in our airwaves to own the Cons, that'll learn them something good.

Her reputation is shit though. and besides NBC would probably have scripted most of what she would say and have her follow a guideline on what to say.

I would make her irrelevant on her own show by having other panelists take over and dominant the show rather than give her an easy out of firing her but to each's own.

"Progressive Hero" Cenk Uygur, Gatekeeper to the Land Lefteros, dismayed that Megyn Kelly got fired

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