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Progressive Latino pollster: 98% of Latinos do not identify with “Latinx” label (ThinkNow Research)

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Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
8,027
This thread is confusing because I think the poll were all talking about is asking a huge group of people whether they should be identified as “latinx”
The huge majority said no
That’s.. not what the poll was..



People were asked which they would use to describe their ethnicity. It shouldn’t be surprising that non-binary people chose latinx and that that (non binary people) represents a small segment of the population
 

Zetta

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,651
I didn't even know this Latinx thing was an actual thing since I've heard it in maybe one channel. When asked I just say I'm Dominican which is followed by an "I Knew it!" since they picked up of my use of baina.
 

Tommcatt

Member
Apr 26, 2019
386
Because it's fucking White Americans deciding to do it. A group of people who have spent hundreds of years shitting on Latin-American people. They're en mass calling millions of people by a term they don't identify with. If Elizabeth Warren wants to refer to Latin-American people in a gender neutral way there are many ways to do so without deciding for millions of people what they should now identify as.

This is completely different from what an individual person identifies as. If someone says "I call myself Latino so you identifying as Latinx pisses me off" obviously that person is in the wrong. But it's grotesque for American white people to try to decide this for Latin-American people. Or is it the white man's burden to correct Latin-America?
I... Just don't see where Latinx is really doing anything like that? For one it doesn't appear to be a term that White Americans came up with. More the one that they adopted. If anything Warren is trying to use inclusive language that is ultimately clunky, where better words already exist.

I'm just not seeing the implied imperialism.

Maybe I'm wrong but I always saw the "x" as being a place where you can place a, o or e? I also thought it was meant mostly to be written. The rest of the thread is showing me that most people didn't and don't see it that way.
 

Gustaf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,917
That’s.. not what the poll was..



People were asked which they would use to describe their ethnicity. It shouldn’t be surprising that non-binary people chose latinx and that that (non binary people) represents a small segment of the population
honestly the fucking article and the poll seems to be trying to attack warren for her use of the term latinx.
 

TacoSupreme

Member
Jul 26, 2019
469
...because no one here is suggesting that everyone use Latinx from what I can see yet many are deriding others for wanting to use it themselves.
Just because no one here is saying that doesn't mean that there aren't white American politicians deciding to label millions of people who don't identify as Latinx as "Latinx." How can you not see that as being, at a minimum, somewhat oppressive?

(Once again, this isn't to say that people shouldn't be allowed to identify as Latinx. Obviously they should. It's just that white Americans should be careful not to take the reins and decide on a new identifying word for millions of people who have been oppressed by white Americans. And right now? They're not being careful.)
 

Omegamon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,595
...because no one here is suggesting that everyone use Latinx from what I can see yet many are deriding others for wanting to use it themselves.
Lots of people here are saying people should not use "latin/e" because is "not real spanish" but latinx isn't either or even saying we should use [email protected] instead when it's unpronounceable, like a user here literally replied to me with that.
 

Soran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
439
it seems pretty obvious that if Latin America is as virulently opposed to the sound of Latinx as people in this thread claim, with no other motivating factor for the dislike of using the term, this is just going to become a regional difference, with Latinx in the U.S. where it has a foothold and Latine everywhere else
Is not a simple dislike, is just unpronounceable in spanish unless you pronounce the "x" as anglo "x".
 

Gustaf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,917
Just because no one here is saying that doesn't mean that there aren't white American politicians deciding to label millions of people who don't identify as Latinx as "Latinx." How can you not see that as being, at a minimum, somewhat oppressive?

(Once again, this isn't to say that people shouldn't be allowed to identify as Latinx. Obviously they should. It's just that white Americans should be careful not to take the reins and decide on a new identifying word for millions of people who have been oppressed by white Americans. And right now? They're not being careful.)
do you feel excluded when warren uses latinx instead of the term you identify yourself?

or is it simply you dont like a white american using it?
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
8,027
Just because no one here is saying that doesn't mean that there aren't white American politicians deciding to label millions of people who don't identify as Latinx as "Latinx." How can you not see that as being, at a minimum, somewhat oppressive?

(Once again, this isn't to say that people shouldn't be allowed to identify as Latinx. Obviously they should. It's just that white Americans should be careful not to take the reins and decide on a new identifying word for millions of people who have been oppressed by white Americans. And right now? They're not being careful.)
You keep telling people what they’re thinking when they’re not saying anything of the sort. I’ve said repeatedly people should use what they feel comfortable with for themselves and that should be respected.

The thread however is full of people deriding the term, even to non-binary people within the culture. Haven’t seen any (may have missed a couple though) suggesting that every Latin American person be referred to as Latinx.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,426
Canada
So the reasons for not liking the word Latinx in this thread boil down to:
  • I'm Straight/Gay and use Latino/Latina
  • Language, language never changes.
  • Latine already exists, fuck people who want something different
  • Fuck white people(even though there are non-white people that use this term)
  • It's hard I don't want to
  • I've never heard of it, it's not real
  • I don't know anyone who uses it
  • Thinly veiled discrimination against non-binary people
Edited to include language, the sacred argument.
Edit 2, now we can only have one.
 
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Syriel

Member
Dec 13, 2017
6,470
Lots of people here are saying people should not use "latin/e" because is "not real spanish" but latinx isn't either or even saying we should use [email protected] instead when it's unpronounceable, like a user here literally replied to me with that.
Why would you say that Latine is "not real Spanish" when Latine is what is used in Spanish speaking countries as a gender neutral/inclusive form of Latino/Latina?
 

Gustaf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,917
So the reasons for not liking the word Latinx in this thread boil down to:
  • I'm Straight/Gay and use Latino/Latina
  • Fuck white people(even though there are non-white people that use this term)
  • It's hard I don't want to
  • I've never heard of it, it's not real
  • I don't know anyone who uses it
  • Thinly veiled discrimination against non-binary people
you missed the sacred cow that is LANGUAGE
 

Soran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
439
So the reasons for not liking the word Latinx in this thread boil down to:
  • I'm Straight/Gay and use Latino/Latina
  • Fuck white people(even though there are non-white people that use this term)
  • It's hard I don't want to
  • I've never heard of it, it's not real
  • I don't know anyone who uses it
  • Thinly veiled discrimination against non-binary people
  • Is unpronounceable in spanish.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
8,027
Lots of people here are saying people should not use "latin/e" because is "not real spanish" but latinx isn't either or even saying we should use [email protected] instead when it's unpronounceable, like a user here literally replied to me with that.
Easiest seems to be just using whichever people are comfortable with and not mocking people for their choice in that. I completely see the latine argument functionally but it doesn’t hold weight against someone wishing to be called latinx in those cases.
 

Tommcatt

Member
Apr 26, 2019
386
Why would you say that Latine is "not real Spanish" when Latine is what is used in Spanish speaking countries as a gender neutral/inclusive form of Latino/Latina?
I am working through the thread and thought Latine is actually the better option. I don't think I've seen anyone calling it fake Spanish.
 

ebs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
353
So the reasons for not liking the word Latinx in this thread boil down to:
  • I'm Straight/Gay and use Latino/Latina
  • Fuck white people(even though there are non-white people that use this term)
  • It's hard I don't want to
  • I've never heard of it, it's not real
  • I don't know anyone who uses it
  • Thinly veiled discrimination against non-binary people
It’s incredible how you missed the entire point of the thread. It’s in the title, it’s in the OP.
 

Gustaf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,917
its unpronouncable

hahahahah, that will never be not funny, to me

i actually forgot that the same way we speak right now we have been speaking it for thousands of years.

like OrangeNova said

language, language never changes
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
8,027
Yeah, we agree on that. But I haven't met yet the first person here (on my local context) that use it for reference as a non-binary person.
That’s cool, and if you’ve not known someone that wishes to be referred to by it over latine then it’s not a concern. Certainly wasn’t suggesting it should be a blanket replacement for all Latin American people.
 

Omegamon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,595
Easiest seems to be just using whichever people are comfortable with and not mocking people for their choice in that. I completely see the latine argument functionally but it doesn’t hold weight against someone wishing to be called latinx in those cases.
The reason why people dislike it more than latin or latine is because it's just unpronounceable. Anyone who speaks speanish daily understand this or even if it is not totally unpronounceable then is waay harder than other options.
 

Syriel

Member
Dec 13, 2017
6,470
So the reasons for not liking the word Latinx in this thread boil down to:
  • I'm Straight/Gay and use Latino/Latina
  • Language, language never changes.
  • Fuck white people(even though there are non-white people that use this term)
  • It's hard I don't want to
  • I've never heard of it, it's not real
  • I don't know anyone who uses it
  • Thinly veiled discrimination against non-binary people
Edited to include language, the sacred argument.
You forgot to include that Latine an inclusive term already exists.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,434
a sunken pirate ship
People were asked which they would use to describe their ethnicity. It shouldn’t be surprising that non-binary people chose latinx and that that (non binary people) represents a small segment of the population
It's also worth noting that, aside from the fact it is focused specifically on American residents, the question as posed is not a referendum on the rejection of any given descriptor, instead that they find the others more appropriate. I'm fine with the use of Hispanic on official forms in the US, but I believe that my Mexican-native wife would prefer identification by specific nationality when possible (because aside from language the shared culture is not as strong). I will try to get her response to this later because I know she has opinions on it and I would rather not misrepresent them.

I mean, I think personally 'latinx' is clunky but that's going to be inherent in almost any attempts to distinguish nonbinary people in general because few languages with gender distinctions have declensions outside the binary -- this isn't an issue unique to Spanish at all -- because the tradition of usage just isn't there.
 

TacoSupreme

Member
Jul 26, 2019
469
do you feel excluded when warren uses latinx instead of the term you identify yourself?

or is it simply you dont like a white american using it?
The word doesn't make me feel icky or excluded or anything, no. And even though I think Latine sounds better I'd be really happy if I woke up from a coma 10 years from now and Latinx had supplanted Latino as most common way to refer to Latin-American people. The fast we get gender neutral in every language, the better.

The problem I have is that this is an issue that Latin-American people are working through. And it feels incredibly offensive when white Americans decide that it's time to step in and sort all of this out for those silly non-whites who can't get their shit together on time. It'll be messy, it'll be complicated, but in time the hundreds of millions of Latin-American people will sort out how to identify without the guiding hand of white Americans.

I do appreciate that Warren wants to be inclusive. And the suffering of NB people is certainly no less important than the misery inflicted on Latin-American people by the United States. And I'm not saying she should say Latino either. She could say Latin-American and not be viewed as re-identifying millions of people.
 
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Firefoxprime

Member
Oct 30, 2017
438
Because if 98% of the people the terms applies to do not identify with it what right do I have to impose it on them? If individuals would prefer to be referred to as latinx and make it known so I'm happy to use the term, but to try and make it the default is just wrong.
That's a slippery slope there my friend. Goals posts, moving targets, etc.

So what you're saying is majority rules? Cuz I'm seeing some hefty discord and division right now.
It's like you're trying to apply logic in space with some shaky foundation.

This culture tries to make everyone feel included, but you're going to have some toes stepped on to reach that goal.
I'm honestly not sure this is ever going to work out.
 

Gustaf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,917
The reason why people is dislike it more than latin or latine is because it's just unpronounceable. Anyone who speaks speanish daily understand this or even if it is not totally unpronounceable then is waay harder than other options.
spanish is my first languange, and its not unpronouncable at fucking all.

what are you people doing with your mouths and tongues when trying to pronounce? like

are you like those people on infomertials that cannot open a carton of milk?
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
8,027
It’s incredible how you missed the entire point of the thread. It’s in the title, it’s in the OP.
I’m not sure it’s particularly surprising that when asked what their preference is for describing their ethnicity only 2% put LatinX. Not sure what the non-binary population % is but I imagine it’s low?

The reason why people is dislike it more than latin or latine is because it's just unpronounceable. Anyone who speaks speanish daily understand this or even if it is not totally unpronounceable then is waay harder than other options.
Sure, but it’s worth making an effort to accommodate still. A little awkwardness in phrasing will mean a lot to them and make them feel validated if that’s what they prefer to use. It might seem the smallest dumbest thing to you but I can genuinely tell you it could make someone’s day if you made the effort and it’s what they prefer.
 

Omegamon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,595
spanish is my first languange, and its not unpronouncable at fucking all.

what are you people doing with your mouths and tongues when trying to pronounce? like

are you like those people on infomertials that cannot open a carton of milk?
I already said I have some speech problems, fuck you.
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,526
So the reasons for not liking the word Latinx in this thread boil down to:
  • I'm Straight/Gay and use Latino/Latina
  • Language, language never changes.
  • Fuck white people(even though there are non-white people that use this term)
  • It's hard I don't want to
  • I've never heard of it, it's not real
  • I don't know anyone who uses it
  • Thinly veiled discrimination against non-binary people
Edited to include language, the sacred argument.
We already have "Latine", that's already used in many LA countries and even had LGBT communities in Mexico fighting for it.
 

Tochtli79

Member
Jun 27, 2019
632
Mexico City
So the reasons for not liking the word Latinx in this thread boil down to:
  • I'm Straight/Gay and use Latino/Latina
  • Language, language never changes.
  • Fuck white people(even though there are non-white people that use this term)
  • It's hard I don't want to
  • I've never heard of it, it's not real
  • I don't know anyone who uses it
  • Thinly veiled discrimination against non-binary people
Edited to include language, the sacred argument.
I don't like the word mainly because it definitely feels like English speakers, whether white or Chicano or both, trying to force it when a) Spanish speakers have used @ for years, as in [email protected], [email protected], when we need to be more gender neutral, and b) current gender neutral language trends in Spanish favour the use of e (at least in Mexico) as in todes, amigues, so it follows that it should be "Latines", which both looks and sounds better than "Latinxs".
Lemme just quote myself for the new page
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,426
Canada
I already said I have some speech problems, fuck you.
Hey, nobody is ragging on you for that, but you're getting drowned out in the sea of people who are whiny about it being hard. I'm sure no matter what you said, the attempt is more important than the execution.
Lemme just quote myself for the new page
And, how do you pronounce [email protected]? is it Latin-ats? Honestly it's a solid way of doing it online, but @ isn't a letter, it's a symbol. Nobody is saying that Latines shouldn't be used, but respecting peoples identity is important, and while some(even a majority) may prefer latines, some prefer latinx. Raising awareness and social norms of using non-binary terms or gender neutral terms helps everyone, because you don't run into stuff like this as often, if you're upset about Elizabeth Warren using it, voice it constructively, or work as a society to bring a word up.
 

Gustaf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,917
I already said I have some speech problems, fuck you.
Hey, nobody is ragging on you for that, but you're getting drowned out in the sea of people who are whiny about it being hard. I'm sure no matter what you said, the attempt is more important than the execution.
yeah, i didnt see that post, and im sorry if i made you feel bad.

but as orange say, the intent is more important than the execution
 

FaceHugger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,417
I have only ever seen latinx used on Twitter. It doesn't surprise me that so few hispanics care for it.
 

Dr.Acula

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,613
It refers to your heritage. It's an umbrella. You can be black, white, asian, native or any combination of races like myself but have your family roots in South America/The Carribean. More often that not though, people will be referred to by their country. Americano, Cubana, Puertoriqueno, etcetera.

Regardless of country or race, the term will be gendered as that is just the language. I won't get into terms for color. Too many layers, haha.
So the natural follow-up is that in Spanish speech, Americanx has to be a thing too, right?
 

ebs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
353
It's really incredible how you're misled by the title of the article and how the title doesn't line up with the data presented and requested in the poll.
What I see is that there’s already a gender neutral term that a strong plurality of the relevant population identifies with and yet some people insist on pushing a separate gender neutral term which a very tiny minority of said population identifies with because it’s more popular in their circle.
 

Syriel

Member
Dec 13, 2017
6,470
Fixed that up for you there.
Just saying, if you're trying to make a complete list. :)

That said, you don't address the difference between "This is what an individual wants to be called" (which I've only seen one person, now banned, be opposed to) and "This is the term that should be used to refer to ALL Latin Americans" (which is where the pushback in the thread is coming from).
 

Verano

Member
Oct 30, 2017
905
its unpronouncable

hahahahah, that will never be not funny, to me

i actually forgot that the same way we speak right now we have been speaking it for thousands of years.

like OrangeNova said

language, language never changes
also warren dont forget almighty warren. any article that includes her name has to be a terrible attack on her!! /s

anyways..I dont mind if non binary individuals and others like to use latinx but dont force that word to identify everyone else within the hispanic/latino community.
 

Omegamon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,595
Hey, nobody is ragging on you for that, but you're getting drowned out in the sea of people who are whiny about it being hard. I'm sure no matter what you said, the attempt is more important than the execution.
They are not ""whiny"", it's hard when there are better options. If people say it is hard for them then it's hard for them, you are acting like they are lying.
 

Gustaf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,917
also warren dont forget almighty warren. any article that includes her name has to be a terrible attack on her!! /s

anyways..I dont mind if non binary individuals and others like to use latinx but dont force that word to identify everyone else within the hispanic/latino community.
can you tell me who is forcing you to identify as latinx?
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
8,027
It's also worth noting that, aside from the fact it is focused specifically on American residents, the question as posed is not a referendum on the rejection of any given descriptor, instead that they find the others more appropriate. I'm fine with the use of Hispanic on official forms in the US, but I believe that my Mexican-native wife would prefer identification by specific nationality when possible (because aside from language the shared culture is not as strong). I will try to get her response to this later because I know she has opinions on it and I would rather not misrepresent them.

I mean, I think personally 'latinx' is clunky but that's going to be inherent in almost any attempts to distinguish nonbinary people in general because few languages with gender distinctions have declensions outside the binary -- this isn't an issue unique to Spanish at all -- because the tradition of usage just isn't there.
Massively intentional reframing of it lol, such a shitty way to use data.
Definitely interested In hearing the response of your wife to this.
 
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