• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

Progressive Latino pollster: 98% of Latinos do not identify with “Latinx” label (ThinkNow Research)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,934
Just because no one here is saying that doesn't mean that there aren't white American politicians deciding to label millions of people who don't identify as Latinx as "Latinx." How can you not see that as being, at a minimum, somewhat oppressive?

(Once again, this isn't to say that people shouldn't be allowed to identify as Latinx. Obviously they should. It's just that white Americans should be careful not to take the reins and decide on a new identifying word for millions of people who have been oppressed by white Americans. And right now? They're not being careful.)
pretty sure White American politicians give zero, or maybe -1000 fucks about what to call Latin Americans.

Warrens using the term to be polite and inclusive. She's not handing down an edict, and white people haven't banded together to do naythang, let alone this.
 

Pyccko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,051
I mean, its heart was in the right place but spanish in a gendered language, like it or not A (literally) fundamental part of the language isn't going to change any time soon, so even though gender neutrality is a good thing to aspire to, I just don't think it's possible in this situation. I'm only half Mexican myself, and don't really look it (though I do have the most Mexican name ever Mexicanned) so I already feel awkward referring to myself as Latino. Latinx just ups that to a whole new level of "na man"
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,425
Canada
They are not ""whiny"", it's hard when there are better options. If people say it is hard for them then it's hard for them, you are acting like they are lying.
I'm not saying that they're lying, language evolves though, and growing pains are expected... Xe and Mx are difficult to pronounce because X is hard letter, and not a vowel, but we figured it out, and we got there.
 

Lundren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,592
People are really missing the irony that people came up with Latinx because they didn't feel represented by Latinos, and are mad that people who use Latinx are using a word they don't identity with.

Also, who cares if Latine exists already? We'll have two terms. Big fucking deal.

Again, we need to strive to be better to LGBT people, not worse in the name of keeping things the same as they always were.
 

Gustaf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,912
I mean, its heart was in the right place but spanish in a gendered language, like it or not A (literally) fundamental part of the language isn't going to change any time soon, so even though gender neutrality is a good thing to aspire to, I just don't think it's possible in this situation. I'm only half Mexican myself, and don't really look it (though I do have the most Mexican name ever Mexicanned) so I already feel awkward referring to myself as Latino. Latinx just ups that to a whole new level of "na man"
so your name is juan lopez?
 

R2RD

Member
Nov 6, 2018
86
I didn't even know this Latinx thing was an actual thing since I've heard it in maybe one channel. When asked I just say I'm Dominican which is followed by an "I Knew it!" since they picked up of my use of baina.
Writing Baina instead of Vaina. Disgusting 🤢
As a Dominican it will be really hard to know that term since we are so far behind when it comes to inclusiveness of the LGBT community.
 

Lundren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,592
Writing Baina instead of Vaina. Disgusting 🤢
As a Dominican it will be really hard to know that term since we are so far behind when it comes to inclusiveness of the LGBT community.
As someone born in San Cristobal, I'll straight up say we're huge asshole towards LGBT people and it needs to stop yesterday. Coñazo.
 

kyo2004

Member
Oct 25, 2017
523
Bogotá D.C.
That’s cool, and if you’ve not known someone that wishes to be referred to by it over latine then it’s not a concern. Certainly wasn’t suggesting it should be a blanket replacement for all Latin American people.
Sadly this type of discussions affects us since we are heavily influenced by the US. When I see many US forums imposing terms for labeling us without consulting in the first place, I feel like we're again in the Discovery Age when the Spanish imposed their language to the precolombinan natives.
 

ebs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
353
I’m not sure it’s particularly surprising that when asked what their preference is for describing their ethnicity only 2% put LatinX. Not sure what the non-binary population % is but I imagine it’s low?
I think the main interesting point of the article is that a strong plurality of the population already favors a gender neutral term. So what then is the logic for championing the use of latinx over hispanic?
 

Gustaf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,912
I think the main interesting point of the article is that a strong plurality of the population already favors a gender neutral term. So what then is the logic for championing the use of latinx over hispanic?
because there are hispanic people who is not latino?
 

Zetta

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,648
Writing Baina instead of Vaina. Disgusting 🤢
As a Dominican it will be really hard to know that term since we are so far behind when it comes to inclusiveness of the LGBT community.
On my phone and it always auto-corrects it to baina unless I add a La in front and then its always vaina. Also while I agree that we are a bit behind in regards to the LGBT community the term Latinx isn't as wildly heard or known so that doesn't help as well. I'm speaking of course in regards to family and friends from said community.
 

Gustaf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,912
On my phone and it always auto-corrects it to baina. Also while I agree that we are a bit behind in regards to the LGBT community the term Latinx isn't as wildly heard or known so that doesn't help as well. I'm speaking of course in regards to family and friends from said community.
there is one thing all latinos, latinas, latinx, can agree with


van damme dancing the vaina loca is pure fire
 

TacoSupreme

Member
Jul 26, 2019
464
pretty sure White American politicians give zero, or maybe -1000 fucks about what to call Latin Americans.

Warrens using the term to be polite and inclusive. She's not handing down an edict, and white people haven't banded together to do naythang, let alone this.
I agree that she's trying to be polite and inclusive. And in general I agree that most White American politicians give zero shits about Latin-American culture.

But being inclusive isn't following a set of steps to a dance and bam you come out the other side inclusive. It's something active. You have see other people, try to understand them, and then speak in a way that includes them. I think she failed in this case, because she could just as easily have said "Latin-American" and not accidentally excluded people who feel that she's misidentifying them.

It's understandable when things like this crop up, because getting elected through a nationwide vote is difficult. She, quite reasonably, wants to signify her support for NB people, so she does what she thinks is best. It's admirable in that respect, and maybe even the best thing for America as a whole right now. But by doing so she's also encouraging millions of white Americans to believe it's acceptable to identify Latin-American people by a name that most of them don't even recognize.

It's like I'm living in some bizarro world here where seemingly progressive people believe that it's okay to apply a label to people when they actively don't want that label (obviously not referring to the Latin-American people who DO want to be called Latinx). I mean, have I lost my fucking mind or is it somehow okay now to just say "well, you don't want to be called that, but I feel more comfortable calling you that, so I will"?
 

Snowy

Member
Nov 11, 2017
834
its unpronouncable

hahahahah, that will never be not funny, to me

i actually forgot that the same way we speak right now we have been speaking it for thousands of years.

like OrangeNova said

language, language never changes
Broadly speaking, language change is an organic, bottom-up process; language changing via top-down imposition of preference is a relatively new attempted phenomenon.
 

TheMilkman

Member
Aug 30, 2019
176
Not a part of the community under question, but gotta say “latine” (a word I didn’t even know existed) sounds way better as a fully inclusive term than “latinx”. When I hear/read the latter, I always think of Spanx. The former sounds like an actual community of people. Again though, I’m not apart of this community so by all means take my opinion with a mountain of salt and educate where necessary if you feel it necessary.
 

Tochtli79

Member
Jun 27, 2019
628
Mexico City
People are really missing the irony that people came up with Latinx because they didn't feel represented by Latinos, and are mad that people who use Latinx are using a word they don't identity with.

Also, who cares if Latine exists already? We'll have two terms. Big fucking deal.

Again, we need to strive to be better to LGBT people, not worse in the name of keeping things the same as they always were.
I can only speak from my experience, but I haven't seen the term Latinx be used or even be catching on among LGBTI Latin Americans either, in contrast to the gender neutral "e" which has been a part of recent feminist discourse in Latin America, so again it just seems like it's mainly people from outside the community deciding how they apparently should be referred to. The term Latinx just doesn't feel organic. It seems to have sprung out of like academia and/or political correctness discourse, not out of the actual community it refers to, while ignoring alternatives already in use/springing up.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
453
No, but both will have fundamentally different life experiences and cultural narratives. I can't credibly claim to understand what it's like for someone of Puerto Rican heritage to grow up in the US anymore than they could claim to understand what it was like for me to grow up in Puerto Rico, live through hurricane Maria, protest and succeed at overthrowing a corrupt governor, etc. etc.

The origin of the term "Latinx" isn't as important as who is trying to push its use as *the* default, go-to label for an entire people. And in my anecdotal experience from having attended the largest, most unabashedly progressive university in my country (which, no exaggeration, has been at the forefront of leftist politics on the island for the past 50+ years), it is not non-binary Latin Americans.

The problem is *not* that individuals would want to identify as Latinx, and anybody who would laugh or attempt to deny them that is simply a transphobic bigot; the problem is that the term--regardless of origin--has largely been amplified by well-meaning Americans (either White, or of Hispanic heritage) to the point where an entire group of millions of people is being labeled with a foreign-sounding term that 98% of us reject. When you pair that with the fact that language is a huge part of our identity, it's, again, not hard to understand the push-back.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
453
I can only speak from my experience, but I haven't seen the term Latinx be used or even be catching on among LGBTI Latin Americans either, in contrast to the gender neutral "e" which has been a part of recent feminist discourse in Latin America, so again it just seems like it's mainly people from outside the community deciding how they apparently should be referred to. The term Latinx just doesn't feel organic. It seems to have sprung out of like academia and/or political correctness discourse, not out of the actual community it refers to, while ignoring alternatives already in use/springing up.
Anybody can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell, no non-binary Latin American has self-identified with the term "Latinx" in this thread.
 

R2RD

Member
Nov 6, 2018
86
As someone born in San Cristobal, I'll straight up say we're huge asshole towards LGBT people and it needs to stop yesterday. Coñazo.
Totally agree, I was gonna say that we are one of worst countries in Latin America when it comes to inclusion but since I don't have any data right now I decided to word that differently. The whole push against the Ideología de género stuff drives me crazy. This country being so religious has fucked up so many things.
On my phone and it always auto-corrects it to baina unless I add a La in front and then its always vaina. Also while I agree that we are a bit behind in regards to the LGBT community the term Latinx isn't as wildly heard or known so that doesn't help as well. I'm speaking of course in regards to family and friends from said community.
I was joking about vaina XD. And my point was that because we are behind in inclusion, a term like latinx is non existent in the DR.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,497
Writing Baina instead of Vaina. Disgusting 🤢
As a Dominican it will be really hard to know that term since we are so far behind when it comes to inclusiveness of the LGBT community.
It’s sad because there’s so many in the closet. I’m happy my generation(Dominican Americans I should say) are way more open about it. Ever since my cousin came out so many years ago I have met sooooooooooo many.
 

asagami_

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,381
Mexico
Anybody can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell, no non-binary Latin American has self-identified with the term "Latinx" in this thread.
I wouldn't consider myself Latinx (or use it), but I have seen it the discussion happening in my country. I think the context it was more if use Latinx or Latine, actually, but that was a year ago. So if other people are using, good for them. I don't need to say I prefer Latine instead, or to think they are wrong, and just respect their choices.
 

Tlaloc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
482
I don't really care for the term I also don't care for latino or Hispanic much either tbh. I identify as Mexican American or Chicano. Living in a majority minority city and I haven't seen the word used much here.
 

Tranq

Member
Oct 21, 2018
188
Really weird takes on language here. Languages mix with each other to make new words all the time. It's what languages do.

Also, I'm not sure what the big deal is if it's being used to identify as nb or be inclusive to nb people. Like....just keep doing what you're doing if you don't need it, which is clearly what people are doing? This "shove down out throats" rhetoric sounds reeeeeeeally right wing and it's not a good look.
 

Kuroyume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,861
I'm latino. I dislike the word. And this is my feeling on it:

"woke" Anglo-Sphere "progressives" changing labels to define you without asking you... again
But, I understand why people are trying to promote its usage/acceptance and I can't waste energy trying to push back on it. There are bigger problems in the word, not that this is really a problem.
 

Froyo Love

Member
Oct 28, 2017
986
Really weird takes on language here. Languages mix with each other to make new words all the time. It's what languages do.
Language is fluid and adaptable when it incorporates things I like and an immutable, inviolable cornerstone of our collective culture when it incorporates things I don't like.
 

Lundren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,592
Who the hell created the term Latinx?
It's hard to find the exact origin. There is an in-depth Wikipedia entry, and Merriam-Webster has an entry about it as well. Most agree it started in American colleges.

Wikipedia says:

Scharrón-del Río and Aja (2015) have traced the use of Latinx in authors Beatriz Llenín Figueroa, Jaime Géliga Quiñones, Yuderkys Espinosa Miñoso and Adriana Gallegos Dextre.[28] The term has also been discussed in publications by Pastrana, Battle & Harris (2016),[23] Valdes (2017),[29][30] and many others.[31]
 

Blue Skies

Member
Mar 27, 2019
3,887
I’m confused in this thread, sorry to beat a dead horse, but are we discussing: using latinx to describe all latinos, or are we talking about using latinx for NB ppl who want it?

Because I have a problem with the former, but none with the latter.

I love Elizabeth Warren and I’m sure she had good intentions, but saying “latinx families” is grammatically incorrect, and literally no one would’ve been offended if she spoke correctly in saying “hispanics” Latin Americans” or “latino families”
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
453
Really weird takes on language here. Languages mix with each other to make new words all the time. It's what languages do.

Also, I'm not sure what the big deal is if it's being used to identify as nb or be inclusive to nb people. Like....just keep doing what you're doing if you don't need it, which is clearly what people are doing? This "shove down out throats" rhetoric sounds reeeeeeeally right wing and it's not a good look.
Yes, organically. That's not what's happening here--as evidenced by all the Latin Americans who have posted that they've never heard the term before.

Spanish already has ways to be gender-inclusive that are infinitely more palatable to the Latin American ear than "latinx". Why are you not listening to what we're saying and instead keep trying to speak on behalf of non-binary Latin Americans, not a single one of which has self-identified with the term "Latinx" 17 pages into this thread?
 

Pau

Self-Appointed Godmother of Bruce Wayne's Children
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,374
I’m confused in this thread, sorry to beat a dead horse, but are we discussing: using latinx to describe all latinos, or are we talking about using latinx for NB ppl who want it?

Because I have a problem with the former, but none with the latter.

I love Elizabeth Warren and I’m sure she had good intentions, but saying “latinx families” is grammatically incorrect, and literally no one would’ve been offended if she spoke correctly in saying “hispanics” Latin Americans” or “latino families”
We are discussing both. People who come in with their hot takes that they won't ever use the word, it's dumb, a creation of non-Latino people, etc. are erasing the identity of non-binary Latinos who prefer to be identified by Latinx. This might be a tiny group, it might have the most support in elitist ivory towers like American universities, but it exists. Painting those people as automatically gringos or self-hating is shitty. So some of us (Latinos even!) are reminding people not to do that.

As for the discussion of using Latinx to describe all Latinos, that's happening too. I would rather that happen without the former hot takes though. It's hard to want to have a discussion when someone has already erased your identity or claimed you're just some dumb gringa whose opinion doesn't count anyways.
 
Nov 1, 2017
668
I'm still confused as to what this survey is supposed to prove exactly. I looked at GLAAD's 2017 Accepting Acceptance Poll and it had 12 percent of all millennials not identifying as cisgender.

It's said that around 21 percent of millennials are classified as Hispanic/Latino. A GenForward study had about 22 percent of millennial Latinos identifying as LGBTQ. So wouldn't the two percent of that age group identifying as Latinx in this survey mean there's a good chance that a number of those it was created for (non binary people) selected it as their preferred option and thus it's working for its created purpose? If around 1/5 of the 12 percent of millennials not identifying as cisgender are also Hispanic/Latino, that would equal 2.4 percent. And since there are binary trans people, you could say it's less than 12 percent which would put their share even closer to 2 percent. So if this is viewed as representative, what am I missing here?

Also the GenForward poll has queer millennial identity of Latinx people at 4 percent. Therefore, even being generous to the critics, if representativ, 1/2 at worst preferring this is still significant.
 
Last edited:

Lundren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,592
Yes, organically. That's not what's happening here--as evidenced by all the Latin Americans who have posted that they've never heard the term before.

Spanish already has ways to be gender-inclusive that are infinitely more palatable to the Latin American ear than "latinx". Why are you not listening to what we're saying and instead keep trying to speak on behalf of non-binary Latin Americans, not a single one of which has self-identified with the term "Latinx" 17 pages into this thread?
There were a handful of people who said they identity as Latinx in this thread. I don't know if they do because they are enby because I'm not going to demand they justify themselves for me.

You can go back and read the thread if you want to know who they are.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.