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Progressive Latino pollster: 98% of Latinos do not identify with “Latinx” label (ThinkNow Research)

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Gustaf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,987
The problem is not with incorporating anglicisms into Spanish, but that said anglicisms need to work with the way Spanish is phonetically written. Latinx is completely at odds with that aspect of the language.

This is why I'm a proponent of Latine, even if I believe it sounds just as corny.
it may be at "odds" but just as gender, language is fluid, the spanish that is speak now is not the same that was speak 500 years ago. not even a fucking little bit

i mean in my fucking life time we eliminated the CH and LL of the fucking alphabet.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,881
it may be at "odds" but just as gender, language is fluid, the spanish that is speak now is not the same that was speak 500 years ago. not even a fucking little bit

i mean in my fucking life time we eliminated the CH and LL of the fucking alphabet.
The ch and ll were eliminated as stand-alone letters, but that doesn't mean their pronunciation disappeared from the map.

In any case, what you propose is to have a more flexible grammar system like the one English has which, ultimately, falls down to preference. I personally like being able to read a word and knowing at first glance how you are supposed to say it, but there are trade-offs with having some modicum of standardisation. At least be glad that the RAE is nothing like the Académie française.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,335
JP
it may be at "odds" but just as gender, language is fluid, the spanish that is speak now is not the same that was speak 500 years ago. not even a fucking little bit

i mean in my fucking life time we eliminated the CH and LL of the fucking alphabet.
Spanish has changed a lot, like all languages have, but it hasn’t adopted a single English phoneme. It’s easy to adopt foreign words, it’s not easy to alter the phonology of the language. Spanish speakers struggle with clusters of consonants, same as Japanese speakers or maybe Italian speakers.
 

FeliciaFelix

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,659
Latine
Latrina

The chances of hilarity are high, dont say I didnt warn you. Still a vast improvement over barbage Latinx.
 

Froyo Love

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,010
It is irrelevant for the example, durr.

And your post is a perfect example of what I was talking about. The people pushing back against Latinx aren't doing so because they disagree with anything you are saying. They are doing so because the word outright doesn't make sense. You can't see beyond your preconceived, incorrect notion that the people opposing the word are bigots, to understand their argument.

Again, the general acceptance of the term "latine" in this topic is proof of this, from the very same people who oppose the word "latinx."

like, the entire post flew past your head. You literally ignored it all. You very, very obviously did not read the post.
Nah, I read the post, that's why I disagreed with it.

Your example was disingenuous. It frames the motivation for using a different term as arbitrary. You wouldn't (and shouldn't) accept a comparison that framed the language objections as equivalent to boomers in the U.S. complaining about "politically terms" like chairperson instead of chairman, because it strips out of the conversation your actual concerns - ability to pronounce and the legacy of imperiarialism.
 

Krejlooc

Indie Game Dev
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
19,391
Nah, I read the post, that's why I disagreed with it.

Your example was disingenuous. It frames the motivation for using a different term as arbitrary. You wouldn't (and shouldn't) accept a comparison that framed the language objections as equivalent to boomers in the U.S. complaining about "politically terms" like chairperson instead of chairman, because it strips out of the conversation your actual concerns - ability to pronounce and the legacy of imperiarialism.
the motivation to use latinx over latine IS arbitrary.
 

golguin

Member
Oct 29, 2017
773
  • People should be free to refer to themselves as they are comfortable and that be respected
  • Latinx should be respected when people identify with it and wish to use it
  • It should not be forced as some universal overwrite for all Latin American people
  • Latine is fine/preferable for general use when it doesn’t conflict with 1 or 2.
From reading the discussions it seems most people agree with the above?
That is correct.
 

Gustaf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,987
Spanish has changed a lot, like all languages have, but it hasn’t adopted a single English phoneme. It’s easy to adopt foreign words, it’s not easy to alter the phonology of the language. Spanish speakers struggle with clusters of consonants, same as Japanese speakers or maybe Italian speakers.
americans cant pronounce the hard R for shit, but they still try
 

Hero Prinny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,005
not surprising, its a stupid word that I bet was made up by Americans cause lord knows Americans love to stick their nose where it doesn't belong.
 

Froyo Love

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,010
the motivation to use latinx over latine IS arbitrary.
Latine is not a pre-existing, widely accepted term in the U.S., as shown by the poll in the OP where it doesn't appear except grouped in the sub-1% other. So if you're using Latine as the "Seattle" in your comparison, not Latina/Latino, it's just a terrible comparison.
 

Untzillatx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,040
Basque Country
americans cant pronounce the hard R for shit, but they still try
They try... when speaking Spanish, no one is telling them to use the hard R in English.

Why should the English 'x' be used in Spanish? Just because it sounds okay to English speakers?

"Latinx" was invented among English speakers, regardless of them being Latin American or not. US-Latinos, particularly those college aged, are predominantly English speakers. Of course they could incorporate "Latinx" with an Anglo 'x' pronunciation and not even realise why that does not make sense in Spanish.

That's why in Spanish-speaking countries, other alternatives have emerged, alternatives that fit with the language's phonology. Latine is one of them.
 

Krejlooc

Indie Game Dev
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
19,391
Latine is not a pre-existing, widely accepted term in the U.S., as shown by the poll in the OP where it doesn't appear except grouped in the sub-1% other. So if you're using Latine as the "Seattle" in your comparison, not Latina/Latino, it's just a terrible comparison.
The poll shows that Latinx also isn't a widely accepted term in the US.

And I drew no comparison to "latine" in my analogy at all.
 

Froyo Love

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,010
The poll shows that Latinx also isn't a widely accepted term in the US.

And I drew no comparison to "latine" in my analogy at all.
Okay, so then your correction to me is nonsense, and your comparison was actually about Latinx vs. Latina/Latino. Which is why I originally said that the comparison to "Xiattle" is disingenuous, because when you make an analogy to an arbitrary, whimsical substitution, you make an implicit argument that the concerns of misgendered people are also arbitrary and whimsical.
 

2Bee

Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
6,363
Discussion seems to be going in circles now, so we think its time to close this thread.

I think this post by Kyuuji is a good summary of where most people in this thread seem to agree on.

  • People should be free to refer to themselves as they are comfortable and that be respected
  • Latinx should be respected when people identify with it and wish to use it
  • It should not be forced as some universal overwrite for all Latin American people
  • Latine is fine/preferable for general use when it doesn’t conflict with 1 or 2.
From reading the discussions it seems most people agree with the above?
 
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