I'm not a Spanish speaker but judging from what others are saying it seems like adding an "x" creates problems. I don't think people here are saying gender neutral words shouldn't exist, and throwing accusations like that is dangerous.
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Progressive Latino pollster: 98% of Latinos do not identify with “Latinx” label (ThinkNow Research)
- Thread starter Senor Spielbergo
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I'll be the first to admit that I am adjusting to this pronoun concept even as a progressive person. But just to be clear.. doctor and architect have no gender as is so you wouldn't make this change. Even in Spanish I don't remember there even being a male-specific gendered version of doctors as they use doctores.
Would someone "get cancelled" if they use "Latinos" to describe a plurality of Latin origin people?
If yes, then it does create problems.
LatinX is a weird word to use irl.
Just use Latin American if you want to be gender-inclusive. It's way more organic and most people won't wonder what the hell you mean.
The alternative is already there so what did we need to make up another word for it?
I try to use it when I remember to.
Yeah, many Latinos in my community aren't a fan of the term. Now if only they weren't a fan of the homophobic, bigoted, sexist, bullshit they like to spew and laugh about...
A lot of Latinos in my community aren't a fan of the "Hispanic" term, either. It's been explained before, but I keep forgetting why. I just stoped using the word.
Can people like read posts like these that go against their preconceived narratives and do a little introspection? Or are we going to get page after page of people falling over themselves to dunk on "woke" culture?
This thread is simultaneously evidence of why conversations like that are necessary and why threads like that don't get that much traction. I can't say much as a general lurker, but it's telling that this thread already has more posts than that one.
Latin@ is not pronounceable, it's just internet lingo used since the annals of time to simplify writing "Latino/a"
Latin is NOT spanish. Latinx, Latine or Latin@ are all usable to me.
don't get me wrong, I am all for making the RAE rage, and I think the better option is to use "e" as in "amigue / muchaches, etc". It is very easy to replace since normally gender identification resides in just one vowel.
The "x" feels more like a phonetic convenience for English speakers because the e is usually mute at the end of a word.
I'll keep calling Latino's Latinos as long as they want me to call them such, and when they tell me not to I will call them by whatever they want them to be called.
But I've always found myself using Hispanic.
But I've always found myself using Hispanic.
Look at what other Spanish speakers are saying; "problems" as in grammar and pronunciation (if there's something more than that add on Spanish speakers). Stop being so dense.
Yeah, the only people who can do that are the Europeans 400 years ago.
Except that's not how the letter 'x' sounds naturally in Spanish, and especially not there at the end of a word. 'Ex' is closer to the sound that it makes in English, which I think evidences how it is used mostly in English speaking environments.
It should either be /latinks/, which is basically unpronounceable in Spanish and very unnatural sounding, or /latin-equis/, which would be the result of separating the 'x' from the word.
The language is gendered but it doesn't imply gender, and Latinx is awfully jarring when actually speaking Spanish.
You can refer to people by both their gender and as a title that is gendered differently.
He is The Claw and The Claw is dangerous.
El es La Garra y La Garra es peligroso.
You can refer to people by both their gender and as a title that is gendered differently.
He is The Claw and The Claw is dangerous.
El es La Garra y La Garra es peligroso.
yes, certain words become it is understood that certain words when used in certain contexts are gender neutral despite being gendered. like if you are talking about someone you dont know in spanish, the rules of the language are to default to latino in this instance.
all that said, i did a study on inherent bias in gendered languages, like translating from a gendered language to an ungendered language back to a gendered language reveals hidden bias (he is a doctor vs she is a nurse from the same sentence, as example) so i get it. i just reject the notion, as i pointed out, that i have been told that identifying people who identify as male as latino is wrong. which it is not.
Latine does seem like it would work better. Would flow more naturally.
Doctor and Doctora are definitely gendered titles people use. "Doctores" and "doctoras" for plural form, too.
Arquitecto is gendered male. Arquitecta female.
Nothing escapes the wrath of this cursed language
Wut. You realize that there is ton of regional language differences in English speaking countries right? If you aren't American, you won't be hurt by people in America creating new terms to be more inclusive.
What ignorant hogwash. Latin Americans are extremely proud of our language and have made it a central part of our identity.
It originated with US academics who didn't like the existing Latin@ as an inclusive term.
It's very '90s in that way.
Inclusive alternatives do exist: Latine and Latin@.
I don't usually identify as Latino despite my heritage (coming from multi ethnic black and latino background gets confusing), but the "Latinx" label always seemed sort of forced, and I was mostly seeing white folk use it (not to say only they use it, but just giving my anecdotal 2 cents).
None of my Latino friends or relatives use it.
I've worked at a university and heard it used there by folks in academics and in campus life, but never in the hood or with people I know.
It just seems disconnected from the linguistics behind the term "latino", let alone when folks say "lets talk like this", it usually doesnt work. Language evolves constantly, but trying to force its hand often doesn't succeed.
Like, am I just going to speak Spanish ending nouns and adjectives with X's from now on? No. Then why would I for any specific word?
My (then-)patriotic dad stopped calling them "freedom fries" after a week, and I clowned him for it. Reminds me of that, or whenever folks would try to force slang words to exist.
If it catches on, you're weird for not saying it, and if it doesn't catch on, you're weird for saying it. That's just language.
None of my Latino friends or relatives use it.
I've worked at a university and heard it used there by folks in academics and in campus life, but never in the hood or with people I know.
It just seems disconnected from the linguistics behind the term "latino", let alone when folks say "lets talk like this", it usually doesnt work. Language evolves constantly, but trying to force its hand often doesn't succeed.
Like, am I just going to speak Spanish ending nouns and adjectives with X's from now on? No. Then why would I for any specific word?
My (then-)patriotic dad stopped calling them "freedom fries" after a week, and I clowned him for it. Reminds me of that, or whenever folks would try to force slang words to exist.
If it catches on, you're weird for not saying it, and if it doesn't catch on, you're weird for saying it. That's just language.
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my sister got used to saying because it was used in the Latino group she was in during college.
i don't mind the word and it's pretty easy to say so eh.
i don't mind the word and it's pretty easy to say so eh.
You heard it from them first, Spanish-speaking Americans. How you dictate your own language you grew up with doesn't matter.
It's like I'm reading the conspiracy that homosexuality was created by white men to make black men effeminate
What is this nonsense coming from a so called progressive site?
No, but it is a problem when they try to dictate language use outside of the US, which happens more often than you would think.
Most of the stuff about imperialism doesn't bother me personally either though since looking at any 2nd or 3rd gen kid trying to speak Spanish is basically a giant smash of Spanglish terms like troca or parquear or whatever that get corrected by older gens but never stick. In those cases most people also accept that shit doesn't actually make sense but you mangle the language enough to make it grammatically make sense, in this case it's just people stop and gawk because it doesn't work grammatically. Again the instances of its use are always so specific (either literally written or spoken only in English) that it would never actually impair you actually speaking Spanish. There's a gap between people trying to argue that this is encroaching on a language vs the actual use in Spanish which is basically never.
In my community the reaction has always generally been "Latinx? That's dumb as fuck. Sounds so dumb."
"How about Latine?"
[pause]
"That could work. It's less dumb sounding."
"How about Latine?"
[pause]
"That could work. It's less dumb sounding."
And it is easier to create a rule that sounds phonetically correct. Gender normally is set my the last vowel of a word. You can easily replace it with an "e" and the word does not suffer from sounding impossible. (Hermoses instead of "hermosxs" —> unpronounceable)
I've yet to see that in this thread and you should be more clear if that's what you're referring to.
I mean, if you want a more serious answer, what's it to you if Latinx-USian queer groups use it, and US media as a whole recognizes it and uses it in conversations within our country? Regional differences in Spanish exist even within Latin America and nobody's policing those; why does this one specific thing upset you?
Why not just say Latin American?
You're acting like current Latin Americans are all natives of America when we're as descended from the Europeans that came to Latin America's shores as we are to said natives. We're all mixed to some degree or other.
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Latinx is not spanish either. Latin is just easier to pronounce and how the fuck do you pronounce Latin@? latinoarroba? Latine is fine too but I personally prefer Latin and there is nothing wrong with it that makes it worse to "latinx".
Latine sounds way better, yeah.
I've heard doctora for sure; but it's not just those two. Cashier? Cajerx. Ambassador? Embajadxr; Surgeon? Cirujanx.
An alternate way of doing it is using the E instead of O or A, and it's much easier to pronounce. Cajere, Embajader, Cirujane.
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