PS4 BC on the PS5 to work on “overwhelming majority” of the library, games to benefit from improved frame rates and resolutions

Liabe Brave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,134
Is it actually or had that game an X patch already, meaning it ran natively, but crashed on the X? Because the article is 4 months old.
And no, the question is whether Microsoft's bc tech broke a game on the X that was not patched explicitly for the X.
I did forget that Modern Warfare would have been enhanced, not merely boosted. So you're correct that it's not what you were asking.

I'm nevertheless pretty sure that such games do exist, though. Microsoft's BC program is very thorough and impressive, but nothing so complex is ever perfect. That's exactly why they backtracked on their "all games" statement about the Series X--they can't be certain of it.

The topic is only of curious interest in any case. We can all agree that almost no games fail under either approach recently taken by the two companies.
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,395
I did forget that Modern Warfare would have been enhanced, not merely boosted. So you're correct that it's not what you were asking.

I'm nevertheless pretty sure that such games do exist, though. Microsoft's BC program is very thorough and impressive, but nothing so complex is ever perfect. That's exactly why they backtracked on their "all games" statement about the Series X--they can't be certain of it.

The topic is only of curious interest in any case. We can all agree that almost no games fail under either approach recently taken by the two companies.
I'm not a fan of assuming, though. Unless proven otherwise, no such games exists. Microsoft said they tested every game IIRC.
And it's only a matter of time until someone comes up with Kinect games being not compatible while this is more of a business decision then a technical limitation to the approach Microsoft does to enable bc for Xbox One games.
In the end I just hope Sony will have something in the same league like what we all expect from Microsoft because I have quite a backlog on PS4 already and the load times for some games are already killing me.
 

Liabe Brave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,134
I'm not a fan of assuming, though. Unless proven otherwise, no such games exists. Microsoft said they tested every game IIRC.
If you're not a fan of assuming, why are you assuming their tests were exhaustive of every minute of all gameplay scenarios for every title? That's the only way they could guarantee every game works flawlessly. Do you think they did complete QA on every single Xbox One game ever made? Of course not, that'd add up to far more than the 100,000 man-hours they've spent overall. I'd want to carefully parse any statement they may have made about 100% testing, unless they mean simply testing if every game will boot and start.

In the end I just hope Sony will have something in the same league like what we all expect from Microsoft because I have quite a backlog on PS4 already and the load times for some games are already killing me.
Sony have unfortunately decided to forego BC at multiple points. But when they've included it, it's pretty much been as complete as Microsoft's solution, or even wider. History is of course no guarantee, but precedent suggests you will get good news.
 

gamer forever

Member
Feb 3, 2018
130
They won't charge for the PS5 version and offer XSX version for free. That's not happening. The only reason it hasn't been announced for PS5 is marketing.

That’s for xbox one though. Sony are very quiet, so I guess we will put it down to lack of marketing for now.
 

Castamere

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,443
That’s for xbox one though. Sony are very quiet, so I guess we will put it down to lack of marketing for now.
I've been saying this for months, but I wouldn't expect any single player game that's more than a year old to get any upgrades beyond boost. Everything that came out this year is toss up, but beyond that? Nah. There's no point. Very few devs are going to put man hours into something they can't sell. The boost is the bare minimum most were doing for remasters this gen anyway, franky.

Nobody is gonna try to make you pay more for a game that just came out. There would be a justifiable uproar, just don't expect to get much for free. It's similar to people bitching about season passes for multiplayer games, but being upset that the free version only gives them 4 maps a year compared to 16. Free comes at a price too.
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,395
Sony have unfortunately decided to forego BC at multiple points. But when they've included it, it's pretty much been as complete as Microsoft's solution, or even wider. History is of course no guarantee, but precedent suggests you will get good news.
To me it's not a question of how often you did something but how and then Sony did a variety of bc solutions with varying results so it's hard to infer something for PS4 games running on Ps5.
 

Eeyore

Member
Dec 13, 2019
2,207
Wow!
Didn't expect another damage control stunt reaction so close to the first one.

Keep it up Sony!
Read first, take in the information and put it in context of what else you know. Then react appropriately. I know this is probably condescending but you formed an opinion without understanding the information.
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,395
Do you even really care? You've been at this for years now across multiple forums.
Of course, I've got a huge backlog on my PS4. These games should run better than before, with less loading times, all of them, then I can get rid of the ps4 hardware and can sell it. The ps5 should be a complete substitute for the ps4, doing everything ps4 can, only better.
 

Mubrik_

Member
Dec 7, 2017
428
To me it's not a question of how often you did something but how and then Sony did a variety of bc solutions with varying results so it's hard to infer something for PS4 games running on Ps5.
I've seen your posts on multiple threads and you come across to me as a tech savvy person who knows his stuff.

Do you really not understand how BC works going forward?

There's no way to assure 100% nothing won't break (hence testing) and BC works well on PS4 pro which is almost the same thing here, I don't need to tell you all this cause I'm sure you know this already.
 

Joule

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,369
Do you even really care? You've been at this for years now across multiple forums.
It's hilarious when both consoles are basically revealed and the xbox fanboy is still more preoccupied with PS5 and their specs. That poster spends more time on PS5 threads than on Xbox threads, and tries to find the negative in anything playstation. Long history of it too but the last 10 pages of their post history will only lead to shots at PS5. Frankly it's also sad
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,770
I've seen your posts on multiple threads and you come across to me as a tech savvy person who knows his stuff.

Do you really not understand how BC works going forward?

There's no way to assure 100% nothing won't break (hence testing) and BC works well on PS4 pro which is almost the same thing here, I don't need to tell you all this cause I'm sure you know this already.
Pro having closest architecture and hardware (just more powerful) still broke certain games when boost mode was turned on. I don't blame them for not committing 100% with this boost mode BC on entirely new architecture.
 

Mubrik_

Member
Dec 7, 2017
428
Pro having closest architecture and hardware (just more powerful) still broke certain games when boost mode was turned on. I don't blame them for not committing 100% with this boost mode BC on entirely new architecture.
As expected?
The games were not designed with pro in mind, hence the boost being an option.
Games that scale well worked fine those that didn't required a small patch or so.
Was there any game that was completely unplayable?

The same reason MS is not committing to 100%
Both companies will get it to work and would put their best effort at it with testing.

With digital and how the consoles are shaping I fully expect more 3rd party devs to design with scalability in mind for future models and a potential Lockhart hence making BC alot more easy
 

McFly

Member
Nov 26, 2017
903
To me it's not a question of how often you did something but how and then Sony did a variety of bc solutions with varying results so it's hard to infer something for PS4 games running on Ps5.
So let me get this straight.

PS2 near 100% BC with PS1

PSP near 100% BC with PS1 digital downloads

OG PS3 near 100% BC with PS1 disc and digital downloads
Near 100% BC with PS2 disc and digital downloads
Later models with removed hardware still had near 100% PS1 BC and ~70% for PS2 which kept improving with firmware updates.

PSVita had near 100% BC with PSP and near 100% BC with PS1 digital downloads.

PS4 is the odd console out.

PS5 is return back to form for Sony.

Xbox360 had terrible BC with OG Xbox roughly 300 games out of 1000

Xbox One has partial game by game BC with Xbox 360 ~600 games out of ~2000 games

Xbox One has partial BC with OG Xbox games ~50 out of ~1000

Yet you are worried about PS5 when Sony has shown that they know how to do BC and they put in the effort to make sure the percentage of supported games are high.

Lol.
 
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Boke18

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
To me it's not a question of how often you did something but how and then Sony did a variety of bc solutions with varying results so it's hard to infer something for PS4 games running on Ps5.
Both MS and Sony have the same solution to BC for next gen. It's clear with MS clarifying what they do. Both companies are testing games to see if they work.

Most if not all games will probably work out of the box. But there is a chance that some games may have compatibility issues that would need a patch to work.
 

zombiejames

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,334
Of course, I've got a huge backlog on my PS4. These games should run better than before, with less loading times, all of them, then I can get rid of the ps4 hardware and can sell it. The ps5 should be a complete substitute for the ps4, doing everything ps4 can, only better.
Sounds like that’s what they’re doing? What’s the problem?
 

McFly

Member
Nov 26, 2017
903
This is how Sony describes BC on PS3. You will not ever get them to give you a percentage or number figure. They keep it vague to cover their ass.
 

•79•

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Sep 22, 2018
373
South West London, UK
User Banned (5 days): Antagonizing other members
Of course, I've got a huge backlog on my PS4. These games should run better than before, with less loading times, all of them, then I can get rid of the ps4 hardware and can sell it. The ps5 should be a complete substitute for the ps4, doing everything ps4 can, only better.
A piece of your soul died the day you bought that PS4, didn’t it?
 

N.Domixis

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,848
To me it's not a question of how often you did something but how and then Sony did a variety of bc solutions with varying results so it's hard to infer something for PS4 games running on Ps5.
stop worrying bro, this is sony. They got this. You don’t win 3/4 generations not knowing what you’re doing. Sony has my full trust.
 

Walken

Member
Nov 25, 2019
1,108
If you're not a fan of assuming, why are you assuming their tests were exhaustive of every minute of all gameplay scenarios for every title? That's the only way they could guarantee every game works flawlessly. Do you think they did complete QA on every single Xbox One game ever made? Of course not, that'd add up to far more than the 100,000 man-hours they've spent overall. I'd want to carefully parse any statement they may have made about 100% testing, unless they mean simply testing if every game will boot and start.


Sony have unfortunately decided to forego BC at multiple points. But when they've included it, it's pretty much been as complete as Microsoft's solution, or even wider. History is of course no guarantee, but precedent suggests you will get good news.
Who has done a better job at using the hardware to improve current gen titles with their more expensive systems (XB1X versus Pro)?
 

TCG276

Member
Dec 17, 2017
132
I think Sony has done a good job clearing things up with BC. Why is this thread still trending? Are console warriors really that bored?
 

Walken

Member
Nov 25, 2019
1,108
Yeah, it's annoying how people are conflating BC and enhancements to BC.

I expect Sony to be 99% there with supporting PS4 titles.

Now how much enhancements we'll see? I'm not holding my breath. Boost mode is very situational in terms of improvements.
Bloodborne improvements are very unlikely beyond less framepacing issues.

People are expecting things Sony isn't promising.
I've watched the video multiple times, trouble is Cerny went from BC to enhancements rather quickly so it was easy confuse which will be enhanced and which PS4 games will be ready to play on launch day. What I gather is we will get the majority of PS4 games ready to play just like they do on the PS4 and up to 100 of the top games ready that will allow the hardware to improve them with more to follow after launch.
 

BlueBomberX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,815
This will be really good for some games that have been coming out with this in mind. Nioh 2, for example has 3 modes on Pro: Action (1080p 60fps), resolution (4k~ 30fps) and resolution unlocked (4k~ with variable frame rate that hovers around 30). I'd like to think PS5 could knock unlocked resolution up to a full 4k 60fps.

Kingdom hearts 3 also has a mode like this. Others as well.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
40,473
This will be really good for some games that have been coming out with this in mind. Nioh 2, for example has 3 modes on Pro: Action (1080p 60fps), resolution (4k~ 30fps) and resolution unlocked (4k~ with variable frame rate that hovers around 30). I'd like to think PS5 could knock unlocked resolution up to a full 4k 60fps.

Kingdom hearts 3 also has a mode like this. Others as well.
Nioh 2's resolution mode is 4k? I thought it was 900p/60 on Action and 1080p/30 on Resolution? I guess I wouldn't be able to tell since I have a 1080p TV.
 

Kyolux

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,561
NCR, Canada
I've watched the video multiple times, trouble is Cerny went from BC to enhancements rather quickly so it was easy confuse which will be enhanced and which PS4 games will be ready to play on launch day. What I gather is we will get the majority of PS4 games ready to play just like they do on the PS4 and up to 100 of the top games ready that will allow the hardware to improve them with more to follow after launch.
Yeah I agree it's confusing.

They said in the blog though that thousands will be tested. I also expect like the pro that boost will be an optional thing and that if a game doesn't work you just turn it off like on the pro.

I don't think they'll be unlocking/gating/whitelisting games. There'll just be a warning like on the pro.

This will be really good for some games that have been coming out with this in mind. Nioh 2, for example has 3 modes on Pro: Action (1080p 60fps), resolution (4k~ 30fps) and resolution unlocked (4k~ with variable frame rate that hovers around 30). I'd like to think PS5 could knock unlocked resolution up to a full 4k 60fps.

Kingdom hearts 3 also has a mode like this. Others as well.
Yup, this is where we'll get the most benefits with PS5 BC.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,836
Any word on if PS5 BC upscales the resolution and frame rate of PS4 titles?
As of right now, the only thing to expect is that games with any dynamic settings will be maxed out and other games will run as high as they can in boost mode.

Until Sony comes out and says anything different, I wouldn't expect anything along the lines of what MS is doing with adding HDR, increasing the resolution like they have with 360 games and (hopefully) being able to increase the framerates of games with a 30fps cap.
 

Kyolux

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,561
NCR, Canada
As of right now, the only thing to expect is that games with any dynamic settings will be maxed out and other games will run as high as they can in boost mode.

Until Sony comes out and says anything different, I wouldn't expect anything.
I don't expect it, but some anisotropic filtering and things like that as options next to boost mode in the console options would be nice for sure.
 

Pachinko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
469
Canada
It's been almost a week now and all I can think of is .. sony's silence for so long followed by coming out with a fairly technical talk has done very few favors for the average person that may have tried to engage. In particular, the backwards compatibility messaging was "we've tested the 100 most played games and are happy to say that most of them will be playable from launch". Even I can admit to being a little thrown off by that wording, it sounds like they only plan to make popular games run well and the use of the word *most* makes it sound like not even 100 games will run day 1. This of course wasn't really what Cerny was trying to say , the actual messaging was intended to be "most of the 4000 titles" will run but since testing needs to happen game by game , they can't promise 100% compatibility from launch.

At least that's my take away at the moment. I have to assume Sony is planning 3-4 more events similar to this that focus more on the hardware itself and the games we'll be playing. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see one of the final videos be "Backwards compat on PS5 AND YOU" very close to launch where it's revealed that your digital library of titles (including PS+) will just carry over with your PSN ID , fully tested titles will launch as normal , other games might load up with a little disclaimer like " this title should work well enough but hasn't completed internal testing, some errors may occur not found on a PS4 gaming console" and finally you might have a small chunk of the library (5-10% maybe ?) that just doesn't work. A 4th category might even be "this title has been enhanced by the developer to take as full advantage of the PS5 hardware as is possible and features the following enhancements : (increased resolution, framerate, enhanced graphics) ".

I guess what I'm most curious about here is whether we can fully wave goodbye to old style cross gen games. Back in 2013 and even going into 2014 , PS3/PS4 and XB360/XB1 titles would all have different SKU's so even if you bought the last gen version of a game you'd still have to (in most cases) pay to buy it a second time to play it on the new console. I'm hoping this fall at least that any game available on current AND next gen hardware is perhaps placed on the shelf with respective branding on the box and you can just pop that disc into whatever you have. So the example in my head is maybe the new call of duty , there's only 2 versions in stores , XBox or playstation. The cases of each don't say PS4/XBone they only say "playstation" and "xbox" with perhaps a small tag on the box art "plays on ps4/ps5 gaming consoles" or "plays on xbox one/series x gaming consoles". Pop the disc into a PS4 /XB1 and it updates for that specific platform , throw it in a one X or a PS4 pro and maybe it grabs a small update to run better there , throw it in a PS5/XBSX and it grabs a substantial update that makes it a "next gen" version at no extra cost. I really hope this is the direction taken by ALL new third party software starting this holiday season (if we don't get a covid19 delay anyway). I also wouldn't be too surprised for some games to see a second scenario play out - you buy a PS4 title , let's say Cyberpunk 2077 and it runs just fine on PS4/PS4 pro and it's clearly marked as a PS4 release. A couple months later the PS5 console launches and cyberpunk is a game that has at least passed cert to simply run on PS5 with few extras. 6 months goes by and CDPR have an official full update for cyberpunk that fully updates the game to run on both series X and PS5 with console native new features , people who bought the current version can download a free patch IF playing on the new console to take advantage of this. Then, later down the road ; as single player DLC wraps up for CP2077 ,a GOTY edition is released ONLY on next gen systems. This being intended for new potential buyers , since early buyers would likely have just updated the game along the way.

Whatever happens I think we can all agree that we're a hungry bunch and more news is always needed to satiate that appetite.
 

Jade1962

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,605
As of right now, the only thing to expect is that games with any dynamic settings will be maxed out and other games will run as high as they can in boost mode.

Until Sony comes out and says anything different, I wouldn't expect anything along the lines of what MS is doing with adding HDR, increasing the resolution like they have with 360 games and (hopefully) being able to increase the framerates of games with a 30fps cap.
MS is adding HDR to every X1 game on XSX? Thought it was just some.
 

Liabe Brave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,134
Who has done a better job at using the hardware to improve current gen titles with their more expensive systems (XB1X versus Pro)?
Sony and Microsoft have done pretty much the same job. The Xbox One X is more powerful--and its little brother less so than standard PS4--so benefits for enhanced games are larger. But the amount and types are comparable. Pro does seem to have more support, as there's about twice as many enhanced games for it (only partially explainable from the extra year on market). But this is likely driven by market share, not inherent technical reasons, so could change in the new generation.

Any word on if PS5 BC upscales the resolution and frame rate of PS4 titles?
Yes, this has been explicitly stated. But just like PS4 Pro, Xbox One X, and Xbox Series X, unpatched games can only be improved up to the ceilings the original programming allowed. Games with a 30fps cap won't become 60fps unless patched by the developer. Dynamic resolution will be improved, but if a game was static resolution, it'll stay that way. This is why One X, despite being significantly more powerful than Pro, also has many more 900p games on it.

Until Sony comes out and says anything different, I wouldn't expect anything along the lines of what MS is doing with adding HDR, increasing the resolution like they have with 360 games and (hopefully) being able to increase the framerates of games with a 30fps cap.
Why did you write a "hopefully" conjecture into a list of "what MS is doing"? The PS5 and Series X will not remove framerate caps on unpatched games. (You might be able to hope for leaps to 60fps if a 30fps game was double-buffered, but I think that'll be very rare.)

The increased resolution on 360 games isn't done automatically, it has to be added by patching those titles which work in specific ways amenable to it. The patching is done by Microsoft rather than the original dev, so that's helpful. But it's fundamentally the same thing as patching games for enhancement, making it uncommon (about 50 games out of 600).

The HDR remapping is pretty neat, but it's also not very sophisticated. Since it's just a post-process luminance filter, it wouldn't be very hard for Sony to implement. Of course, they may not bother. Several TVs already have HDR post-conversion features, and I believe the Apple TV 4K does as well.