2019 or 2020. Whats the big deal, just chill and let's play RDR2. We will see november 10th what mister Spencer has to say.
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PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Post E3 2018
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
- Start date
I'm still only going to expect 16GB but if either console gets 32GB or 24GB I'll be the first to slow clap them. I'm not sure about a 256-bit bus not being able to provide sufficient BW to a 12TF/8c/16t Zen2 APU. Doesn't RTX 2080 have a 256-bit bus/448GB/s BW?
This. People are getting too fired up, no one can really rule out 2019 however likely 2020 looks, so just sit tight and the answer will reveal itself relatively soon. Not gonna play RDR2 tho, fuck rockstar and their 60$ pc ports a year after console release.
You may think you've won, but that was a lucky penny! 2019 confirmed!
On the more serious subject of memory bandwidth I renege hearing that 32GB could be done with a 512-bit bus - is that even remotely possible?
Area cost for a 512-bit interface is kinda horrendous, if going the monolithic APU route. Doesn't shrink particularly well, either.
Yup. At that point, you may be better off eating the cost of HBM and hope it improves a lot over time. Plus you're talking 1TB/s memory bandwidth at that point, which is bonkers.
I still wonder if they might actually do that. Normally I'd completely rule it out in favour of GDDR6, but the things I keep hearing about how dependent these APUs are on memory bandwidth - including stuff like the Zubor - makes me think it may actually be worth eating the cost.
Even so, 1TB/second memory bandwidth might be what is needed.
Taking again my proposed 12TF Navi/ 3Ghz Zen2 console compared to X1X, you are talking a 2X jump in GPU power, which is mild, but a HUGE jump in CPU power (potentially 8X or more) over that shitty Jaguar
X1X has 326MB/sec so as crazy as 1TB/second might sound, it may be what is necessary since it's really only a 3X jump over X1X.
At least 700MB/s will be needed at minimum, IMO.
What is "bonkers"in 2019 may be "meh" in 2026, which might be how long these things must stay viable before another successor arrives
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If the APU should be going through validation around 2 years in advance, and Zen 2 leaks have just begun to hit, then you would expect it to be finalized by this point.
If a 24GB version requires a 384-bit bus then I would personally toss it as a possibility. Someone with a bit more technical knowledge help me out here. To my thinking the bus width is not something you can change late in the game. It is one thing to add more RAM in a clamshell when the dev kit already has this. A different bus is a different story entirely is it not?
If a 24GB version requires a 384-bit bus then I would personally toss it as a possibility. Someone with a bit more technical knowledge help me out here. To my thinking the bus width is not something you can change late in the game. It is one thing to add more RAM in a clamshell when the dev kit already has this. A different bus is a different story entirely is it not?
Pretty much. Changing the the memory controller means changing the chip and the entire hassle that comes with it. You're not gonna change something major like that very late into the design.
Yep. And 18 Gb/s GDDR6s are currently available giving 576 GB/s using a 256 bit bus. Its not absurd to think that 20 Gb/s Gddr6 could be widely available in 2020, which would give a 640 GB/s bandwidth. More than the 2080ti BW.
Bandwidth using a 256 bit bus (and so 32GB in total using the clamshell mode) will likely be enough...in 2020.
I wonder if any of the insiders could answer/indicate if 24GB or 32GB is still definitely not happening, especially if there has been a delay from a planned 2019 to 2020?
Enough for the GPU alone. A 2080ti doesn't include a Ryzen 2 like the next consoles might so it is not a 1:1 comparison at all
640GB/sec bandwidth would be able to saturate/feed a system slightly less than 2X an Xbox One X(326GB/sec.
Put another way, a console with dual Jaguars/ Scorpio Engines would require >640GB/bandwidth.
A console with Navi+Zen2 will be greater still
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Bandwidth needs for the GPU will absolutely dwarf the usage for the CPU (probably something very close to 10:1). It won't be insignificant, but won't be all that big of a deal.
There's always the possibility that Sony will do something weird like a 320-bit bus. That could give us something like 640 to 720GB/s depending on individual chip speeds and up to 20GB in clamshell.
They wouldn't need clamshell to hit 20GB. We already have 16Gb chips.
The thread about a Diablo 4 leak has a detail about PS5 being "Project Epsilon" as a codename. Refresh me folks. Was that name already debunked?
Ryzen 7 1800x integrated memory controller supports~40GB/ sec. Ryzen2 should at least double this, which is why I agree with you 700MB/ second is necessary at minimum.
That said, anything less than that won't get the job done, IMO.
And if not, you can kiss any illusions of widespread 4k/60fps next generation goodbye.......then again.....that was never going to happen anyway :p
Ah... Thought it sounded familiar, but I couldn't remember why. Carry on.
Edit: I looked up that April Fools joke and oh my goodness. I forgot about the hilarity of 32GB GDDR6 paired with a 1TB SSD
Lol, sorry I missed this post (you aren´t on my ignore list) but you are using a comment that Cerny made about a rather groundbreaking UI for its time. I mean, the whole thing about sharing and emphasizing the use of a share button would of course require that amount of time.
I REALLY doubt the PS5 has a OS/UI that is that much different the PS4 (it is the most well received UI of any available console). To think that the PS5 would need the same amount of time doesn´t add up when working with the PS4 and updating it across 5 years helped shape the PS5´s OS/UI.
LOL. Looks like a teacher asked their 13 year old students to do a class assignment in Powerpoint with a half hour deadline.
Amazing that some people believed it.
If PS5 and XB2 come out in second half of 2019 or 2020, we'd be lucky to get 16 or 24gb of GDDR5X.
TSMC has had N7+ tapeouts, N5 hits risk production next April, and they're going to have a new packaging process suited to HBM by the end of the year.
https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1333827
https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1333827
If PS5 has a GPU with 2080ti comparable performance (like I think it will) then 640GB/s will be more than enough. It's a console, so devs can optimize bandwidth usage much more than on a PC. And 2080ti has 616GB/s of bandwidth.
And you can't compare with XBX linearly. PS5 gpu won't be 2 XBX GPUs ductaped ! It's going to be a much more advanced tech with plenty of custom hardware and maybe some bandwidth optimizations.It's probably not going to be GCN for a start.
No problem about missing my post. I jumped the gun a bit there.
I disagree about your reasoning though. Yes in the PS4 case he says they spent the last two years working on everything surrounding the HW but it doesn't change the fact that the APU would have to be locked down way in advance of going on sale.
anexanhume did a good job explaining the more technical side.
Wow so does this mean that 7nm+ cell phone chips could be in mass-production next fall? TSMC is right on schedule then? Maybe AMD's 7nm+ next generation GPU can still make 2020?
On a more general note, can anything be inferred from this information as to the technology the next-gen consoles will use or their timeline for launch?
Yes yes. I don't recall it being an April's Fools day joke though
Yes, it appears they're still on schedule. If this holds, 7nm+ phone chips in 2019, 5nm in 2020. HPC and big die is a little less clear. They are clearly developing advanced packaging technologies related to big die in the next few years, but it's possible GPU vendors skip 7nm+ and go for 5nm. We'll just have to see. You can't take a 7nm+ console APU off the table, IMO.
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Really interested to hear your thoughts then about DF's guess of a 13.82TF GPU with 80CU,8 disabled for yields and clocked at 1,5Ghz. Does it seem possible to you? is it something realistic to expect?
I misquoted the rumor but didn't edit fast enough.
A Vega 64 scaled to 7nm using TSMC's own numbers only takes up about 200 mm^2. Assuming a next gen APU is 350 mm^2, they can afford to grow it. I think Richard was fair in his estimation.
I found this job posting to start Spring 2019 a while ago that is quite interesting: https://jobs.amd.com/job/Austin-Co-Op-Engineer-Spring-2019-(68823)-TX-73301/502598100/
Could be for PS5, Scarlett or other unknown customer of AMD.
Could be for PS5, Scarlett or other unknown customer of AMD.
A bad one and did any codename ever reveal something about the console other than nintendo "revolution"?
Good find. The posting is for Spring 2019, and alludes to development silicon arriving after the position has commenced. To ramp for Fall 2019, a console APU would need to be in production late Spring or early Summer, which makes a Fall 2019 launch unlikely given this timeline.
Yep. Could be for Scarlett in 2020 though it does say APUs. Pity I didn't check a year ago to see if they had a similar posting...
Where does it say it was contributed by Sony? I do not see that, at least not on the page provided. Seems to be a normal evolution of the compiler toolset ...
After a quick check::
Unless the one contributed and committed the latest changes named Clement Courbet is working for Sony which he doesn't. A quick check reveals that he actually works for Google.
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Simon Pilgrim (rksimon) and Andrea Di Biago (andreab) are both Sony employees and their names all over these commits.
Here's an example actually committed by Simon:
https://reviews.llvm.org/rL343690
Those are the reviewers not the contributors. To get the contributor you have to hover over the commit link. The tool was initially added by Clement Corbet.
TeamH2-2018 Baby! Sony lied about no PSX. PSX will be on christmas eve since Santa Claud is busy this year. Release be the day after at 199$. 128 GB HBM4, 4 TB SSD, Zen 5+, 297 TF GPU. Will be BC with every game ever released and it Will make it an instant remake with 4K textures, online modes, 60 fps, VR-mode, new missions and modes etc. but the launch titles will be dull
