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When will the first 'next gen' console arrive?

  • H2 2019

    Votes: 638 14.1%
  • H1 2020

    Votes: 724 16.0%
  • H2 2020

    Votes: 2,813 62.2%
  • H1 2021

    Votes: 141 3.1%
  • H2 2021

    Votes: 208 4.6%

  • Total voters
    4,524
  • Poll closed .
OP
OP
Phoenix Splash
Mar 23, 2018
2,654
Brad sams seams to think that Xbox will have multiple sku's for different audiences.
99-149$ stream console
300-400$ base scarlett
500-600$ premium Scarlett.

He has a pretty good track record. I don't necessarily like the idea of them doing this but if they do then then they will beat Sony in price on the base and beat them in performance on the premium. I personally would rather them just do a streaming box and a 500$ beast.

What if the premium Scarlett is SSD + extra Controller + special model color + 6 months to 1 year of Game Pass + 1 year of Xbox Live Gold? Dunno, perhaps a better cooling solution. Making an special Xbox while also still making the Xbox One X and Xbox One S would seem odd.

By the way, do you guys think current Xbox and PS4 controller will work with the new consoles? In a basic way, at least.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
This is veering off a little into branding/design as opposed to release/specs..

But while I'm 99% certain the next PlayStation will simply be "PS5", I really do wonder what the next Xbox will be called? It seems they've really painted themselves into a corner with their naming schemes.

"Two" doesn't make much sense as One alluded more to the idea of one platform as opposed to the iteration of console.

The logical next step would be "XBOX 4", "XBOX IV" or "XBOX FOUR"...but that's 1 less than the 5 of what will almost certainly be "PS5"; and I believe that part of their motivation with the 360 would have been to not have an "XBOX 2" vs a "PLAYSTATION 3".

Unless they go for a really good subtitle that is forward thinking in terms of S and X iterations as well as a streaming SKU and further generations, then I believe the smartest move would be to cheat a little and regard the X as the fourth Xbox console (just this once) and go straight for a 5.

However, a "5" would likely not sit well with the "XBOX" letters in a logo, but would sit well with likely X and S iterations; if you can look past the parallel with iPhone 5S. Repeat branding isn't a great practice..

"XBOX FIVE" could be very nice if a parallel between the four letters of each could be found in the main logos. Though "XBOX FIVE X", "XBOX FIVE S" and "XBOX FIVE [STREAMING SKU]" are all starting to sound a little long-winded in terms of the written word.

"XBOX V" would likely be the most visually pleasing in terms of a logo as the V sits nicely with the XBOX lettering. Though again, those potential X and S iterations would likely look a bit wonky next to the V, with the X in particular looking like backwards Roman numerals.. "XBOX VX/VS" anyone? :S

It's a shame the "360", "720", "1080"... approach didn't pan out, but the parallel with resolutions would have been a bit on the nose, especially with each one effectively being a generation behind. "720" in a primarily 1080p generation, "1080/1440" in a primarily 4K generation etc. Plus, once you get to the "1440/2160"s it all gets a bit messy and long-winded again.

Anywho, on a somewhat related and slightly shameless note, here's my barebones PS5 logo mockup..

logomod.png


logogilcap.png


Click for more variations..

It's basically a PS3/4 logo with a 5 rebuilt from the other characters, a tilt, some minor spacing adjustment and some slight tweaks to the corners/edges, plus the existing "PS" and a similar "PlayStation®5" added for added legitimacy (they really don't meed changing and really work well when cohabiting the same space as other Sony/PlayStation branding). It's an ultimately lazy design but for the sake of coherency and recognition, less really is more here. Also, I'm often really averse to Italics but it just gels really well here imo.

The great advantage Sony has in terms of the nomenclature is that "PS [insert number here]" works great not just in terms of visual branding but when referenced both officially and unofficially in writing, print and the spoken word (it really rolls off the tongue). No other brand has such a universally recognised shorthand.

Anywho, perhaps I'll have a look at the Xbox V/FIVE/5/4 etc. branding some time and do some mockups to see what gels there..
Xbox IV, inject it into my veins.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
Uhm rdr2 Is 4k on the X cerny was wrong and Just giving some + Or - numbers to give people and idea....you have also to think at his words based on what Sony and Ms respective pro/x tf are ....its marketing

No Cerny was not wrong. All PS4 1080p games aren't 4k on Xbox One X. Having a machine doing 1080p PS4 in 4k it means all PS4 games in 1080p will be 4k. Maybe next memory is not good but I think it is not the case. Theorically you need to have 4 times, 4 times the bandwith to have all 1080p PS4 games at 4k.
 

Deleted member 12635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,198
Germany
No Cerny was not wrong. All PS4 1080p games aren't 4k on Xbox One X. Having a machine doing 1080p PS4 in 4k it means all PS4 games in 1080p will be 4k. Maybe next memory is not good but I think it is not the case. Theorically you need to have 4 times, 4 times the bandwith to have all 1080p PS4 games at 4k.
You don't need 4 times the memory bandwidth, by far not.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
You don't need 4 times the memory bandwidth, by far not.

If a game is bandwidth bound at 1080p on PS4 you need to have 4 times the bandwith forbdoing the same things at 4k. A game can be ALU bound, Bandwidth bound, fillrate bound(doubt it this generation so much things done with compute...). For having all the case cover in theory at least for bandwith and AlU you need to have four times flops and bandwith. After it is not always true and much more complicated sometimes a rendering passes is ALU bound another is bandwith bound or fillarte bound.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
20,755
Ps3 as an obvious outlier and hard lesson for Sony, this is the same company that made it a point to:

1- make a big deal out of $299 at E3 1995 to undercut the Saturn
2- Dropped PS2 price to $199 when it was selling the best just six months after Cube/Xbox in May 2002
3-Has has numerous $199-$249 PS4 slim sales since 2016, a few $199 PS VR sales too

I think Sony is aware of the importance of $399 and won't go past it
 

Evangelista

Using an alt account to circumvent a ban
Banned
Aug 21, 2018
708
Uhm rdr2 Is 4k on the X cerny was wrong and Just giving some + Or - numbers to give people and idea....you have also to think at his words based on what Sony and Ms respective pro/x tf are ....its marketing
Rdr is one game. With 30 fps. Old engine. Ugly NPCs. It doesn't look at all what I expect from a next gen game. So he was right. One game is not a parameter.

And when rdr2 come to PC we will discover that settings on consoles are on low.
 

Hudsoniscool

Banned
Jun 5, 2018
1,495
People mention the "sweet spot" at 399$. Problem is in 2020 how much better of a console will that be over the X. IDK if your getting something much better at that price.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,992
Uhm rdr2 Is 4k on the X cerny was wrong and Just giving some + Or - numbers to give people and idea....you have also to think at his words based on what Sony and Ms respective pro/x tf are ....its marketing
I see some are still using the One X as proof.

Those that do this still seem to forget what the target cpu is for One X games.

Must we keep forgetting the base consoles have different specs? Or does that no longer matter......maybe some are forgetting the base consoles exists at all....

For the Pro to do what the One X is doing, it would need more the 6tf...it would need damn near 8.

Because of the base PS4 specs....

That the One S still to this day winds up being the worse version for multi platform games should make this clearer....
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,018
Florida
I see some are still using the One X as proof.

Those that do this still seem to forget what the target cpu is for One X games.

Must we keep forgetting the base consoles have different specs? Or does that no longer matter......maybe some are forgetting the base consoles exists at all....

For the Pro to do what the One X is doing, it would need more the 6tf...it would need damn near 8.

Because of the base PS4 specs....

That the One S still to this day winds up being the worse version for multi platform games should make this clearer....

Little bit of a fallacy. RDR2 is 1080p on base PS4 and 4K on the X. So the X can do base PS4 at 4K. It honestly doesn't matter though. Next gen should look great regardless.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,992
Little bit of a fallacy. RDR2 is 1080p on base PS4 and 4K on the X. So the X can do base PS4 at 4K. It honestly doesn't matter though. Next gen should look great regardless.
Yeah, true.

But the the One X is running the One S version of games, not the PS4 version.

What's the resolution on the One S version of RDR 2.

IIRC the One S was the worse version of RDR 2.

I think this is what some don't factor in. The base consoles.
 

klik

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
873
So there's basically 0% chance that Sony will release PS5 in 2019?
Beacuse if they are somehow plan to release it in 2019 i really doubt they would not attend E3 the biggest gaming event of the year.
 

Rösti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
801
For reference, Sony's Media Days News Conference is two days before the AMD Keynote: https://ces.tech/event/Sony-Electronics-Inc-Media-Days-News-Conference.aspx

Monday, January 7
5:00 – 5:45 PM

I'm not expecting any major PlayStation related announcments during Sony's conference, but perhaps a little something on the next generation could be hinted? I remember Kaz Hirai got quite a few questions on PlayStation 4 back at CES 2013. We'll see what PlayStation.Blog says about the conference once they post about it (which the usually do every year). Back in 2016 (and 2013) there was a post-conference live Q&A as well: https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UT0016-NPUP10037_00-0000S00000000000

sony_ces20169ndov.png


Hopefully we will see another one come January. Whatever may unfold I'm very excited for the AMD keynote.
 

Deleted member 12635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,198
Germany
If a game is bandwidth bound at 1080p on PS4 you need to have 4 times the bandwith forbdoing the same things at 4k. A game can be ALU bound, Bandwidth bound, fillrate bound(doubt it this generation so much things done with compute...). For having all the case cover in theory at least for bandwith and AlU you need to have four times flops and bandwith. After it is not always true and much more complicatedsometimes a rendering passes is ALU bound another is bandwith boundbor fillarte bound.
2 of 3 cases you mention are not bandwidth related. And there are enough examples in GPUs for PC that tells you otherwise. For 8 TF around 400gbps of mem bandwidth is absolutely fine (referring to the Czerny statement of 8TF is minimum for 4K). And that is 2.5 times the mem bandwidth of a base PS4.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Yeah, true.

But the the One X is running the One S version of games, not the PS4 version.

What's the resolution on the One S version of RDR 2.

IIRC the One S was the worse version of RDR 2.

I think this is what some don't factor in. The base consoles.

The One S version at 1080p = base PS4 version.

There's no reason to invoke mental gymnastics. The X has shown the ability to run PS4 1080p games at 4K.
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
6,095
What are we even arguing at this point? Cerny over estimating the amount of teraflops needed for 4k? I'm okay with that slip up lol
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,992
The One S version at 1080p = base PS4 version.

There's no reason to invoke mental gymnastics. The X has shown the ability to run PS4 1080p games at 4K.
?

They are 2 different machines....

Ok....

We are trying to squeeze 2 different consoles with different specs that run games at different res and effects into the same solution.

So, and I'm no dev so anyone with insight please correct me...

Multi platform game for PS4 and XBO.

Different res, effects. XBO S usually is the worse version.

Mid gen refreshes come out.

So, to get games to use the extra power of the One X, they are going to start with the base PS4, and not the base XBO?

When the game has to run on base XBO? That includes the og XBO.
 

Evangelista

Using an alt account to circumvent a ban
Banned
Aug 21, 2018
708
Oh,come on now...if anything gave me feeling that i am playing next gen game-that's RDR2.

RDR2 at 4K/60fps on PS5 and i will be very satisfied.
Well I think we have different standards. Besides the vivid world anything on that game looks next gen for me. NPCs looks like last gen. Gameplay too.

For me AC Odissey looks much better than rdr2 and still is not what I expect from nextgen.

4k is just resolution. Just definition. I expect better effects.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,992
What I'm saying is, the game still has to run on the base console of the mid gen refresh.

The base consoles don't have the same specs.

For XBO games, 6tf is 4 times the XBO cpu.

8tf is 4 times the PS4 cpu.

How is that mental gymnastics?

It's math. I know not that simple but it lines up with what Cerny was saying.

Pretty sure he ment for PS4, why would he mean for the competition when they have other stuff to factor in? XBO changed the ram setup for the One X for starters.

The One S uses esam, the One X doesn't.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,582
What are we even arguing at this point? Cerny over estimating the amount of teraflops needed for 4k? I'm okay with that slip up lol

Is it really an over-estimation when the XBX1 doesn't run every game in native 4K with 6TF? I think I'm gonna side with an industry legend over some Xbox fanboys on the forum who use one game as the rule rather than the exception.
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
6,095
Is it really an over-estimation when the XBX1 doesn't run every game in native 4K with 6TF? I think I'm gonna side with an industry legend over some Xbox fanboys on the forum who use one game as the rule rather than the exception.

Oh I'm not arguing with you. I agree with Cerny, last I checked he's a certifiable genius and no one posting here is. I just wanted to change topic rather than bash my head against walls lol.

But since we're on the topic let me end this now. 4k is four times the res of 1080, so if both consoles output at 1080p then to reach 4k they need four times the power. So let's do some math....

Base power of OG PS4 is 1.84 teraflops. Does the pro put out at 4k? Nope. We'll why is that? Let's do simple math.

1.84 (tf that put out 1080p) x 4 (4k being four times the resolution of 1080)=7.36....see how that works?

Ah, but people will argue that the 1x puts out at 4k with less than 8 teraflops (okay, 7.36, whatever)

Base power of Xbox 1s is 1.4 teraflops.

1.4 x 4 is......5.6.

The teraflops output by the 1x is.....6 teraflops.

Seriously people, none of this is complicated, but keep arguing with Mark Cerny and basic elementary school math if you like. So let's move on to things more worth our time

*None of this was at you Kyoufu, just used your post as a jumping off point lol.*
 
Nov 12, 2017
2,877
No Cerny was not wrong. All PS4 1080p games aren't 4k on Xbox One X. Having a machine doing 1080p PS4 in 4k it means all PS4 games in 1080p will be 4k. Maybe next memory is not good but I think it is not the case. Theorically you need to have 4 times, 4 times the bandwith to have all 1080p PS4 games at 4k.
I'm sorry no you don't need exactly 4 times but is okay let's don't go ot )) and maybe I wrote it In a wrong way I was talking more about the third parties games I stead of exclusives
 
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joe_zazen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
Lisa Su says AMD's semi-custom business will be down in 2019, so it doesn't sound like anyone is launching in 2019.

What would kill ps4 and x1 sales more than an announcement in jan/feb of a nov ps5 launch? And 1.5 months of sales of single new console is not going to fix 12 months of sales for 2 consoles.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,885
the Netherlands
So there's basically 0% chance that Sony will release PS5 in 2019?
Beacuse if they are somehow plan to release it in 2019 i really doubt they would not attend E3 the biggest gaming event of the year.
You said it yourself, it's extremely unlikely a platform holder would skip E3 if they were about to launch their next-gen console in a few months. The fact that Sony is skipping E3 is basically confirmation that we are not gonna see the PS5 release next year.
 

joe_zazen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
You said it yourself, it's extremely unlikely a platform holder would skip E3 if they were about to launch their next-gen console in a few months. The fact that Sony is skipping E3 is basically confirmation that we are not gonna see the PS5 release next year.

Depends on their marketing strategy. Do you show stuff at a congested e3 or do you do a new console blowout at a 25 year anniversary psx in late august? If you can't bring your big guns to e3, all you'll get out if it is moaning from the press and forum rancour.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe
So there's basically 0% chance that Sony will release PS5 in 2019?
Beacuse if they are somehow plan to release it in 2019 i really doubt they would not attend E3 the biggest gaming event of the year.

We know nothing for sure yet.We will know by the end of March and GDC.If there is no PS meeting by then and no any serious leak about PS5 specs,then 2019 is off.
Till we get some serious new info it's all "rumors and speculation".
 

Camoxide

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
704
UK
Like all? of these patents that have been posted the last few months it is a continuation of an existing patent.

Here's the link to the original application from June 2013: https://patents.google.com/patent/US10102603B2/en?inventor=Mark+Cerny&oq=Mark+Cerny&sort=new

Not sure there is anything new in them?



Beg pardon? How/where is it said GDDR6 is having bandwidth issues?

There are tons of posts in this thread saying GDDR6 won't have enough bandwidth at a 256 bit bus.
 

Lucreto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,631
You said it yourself, it's extremely unlikely a platform holder would skip E3 if they were about to launch their next-gen console in a few months. The fact that Sony is skipping E3 is basically confirmation that we are not gonna see the PS5 release next year.

Which is really confusing. Why skip E3 but have Shawn Layden saying see you in the new year?
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,544
I have some questions.

1.How much work is a PS4 pro patch compared to say, porting your PS4 game to Xbox One or PC?

2.Can Sony design the PS5 in a way that makes porting PS4 games to PS5 similar to that of PS4>PS4 pro where its more of a patch rather than a new sku, or is the jump in hardware power going to inevitably cause more work?
 

joe_zazen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
Which is really confusing. Why skip E3 but have Shawn Layden saying see you in the new year?

Simply because E3 does not give them maximum exposure. E3 has dozens of companies fighting for a slice of the coverage and you have to fit your what you want to do into someone else's event. Skipping e3 and doing their own thing means they dont have to share coverage or work around other people's needs. I am sure they'll have something to say in jan/feb, and then something big later in the year.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
What I'm saying is, the game still has to run on the base console of the mid gen refresh.

The base consoles don't have the same specs.

For XBO games, 6tf is 4 times the XBO cpu.

8tf is 4 times the PS4 cpu.

How is that mental gymnastics?

It's math. I know not that simple but it lines up with what Cerny was saying.

Pretty sure he ment for PS4, why would he mean for the competition when they have other stuff to factor in? XBO changed the ram setup for the One X for starters.

The One S uses esam, the One X doesn't.

The X run games at 4K, with better visuals and additional effects than the base PS4 running at 1080p. So the stuff about 'running the Xbox one S version ' makes no sense.

A 6TF PS4 Pro would run PS4 games at 4K or close, similar to what the Xbox One X does.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
There are tons of posts in this thread saying GDDR6 won't have enough bandwidth at a 256 bit bus.

RTX 2080 has 448 GB/s bandwidth on a 256-bit bus and I've heard nothing about bandwidth issues with that. 576 GB/s is possible on a 256-bit bus at the currently known top-spec 18 Gb/s per pin chips. What sort of bandwidth do you think the consoles will need?
 

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,582
RTX 2080 has 448 GB/s bandwidth on a 256-bit bus and I've heard nothing about bandwidth issues with that. 576 GB/s is possible on a 256-bit bus at the currently known top-spec 18 Gb/s per pin chips. What sort of bandwidth do you think the consoles will need?

since consoles have unified memory they will need more bandwidth to feed both CPU and GPU, right?
 

RoninStrife

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
Not joining Team 2019, but what does Shawn Laden mean by this?

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2018/12/shawn_layden_on_sonys_silence_see_you_in_the_new_year

"PlayStation chief Shawn Layden briefly appeared during
The Game Awards 2018 last night to open the show alongside Nintendo boss Reggie Fils-Aime and Xbox overlord Phil Spencer – but while the latter two appeared later in the stream to chat about their respective platforms, Layden stayed out of the limelight.
This disappointed some fans, but Layden was quick to reassure everyone on Twitter : "See you in the new year," he wrote in response to one streamer who lamented the executive's limited presence. "
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
It means Sony are doing what they said they would do back in April was it? They are bending/crouching (keeping quiet) before jumping....!
 

rokkerkory

Banned
Jun 14, 2018
14,128
The X run games at 4K, with better visuals and additional effects than the base PS4 running at 1080p. So the stuff about 'running the Xbox one S version ' makes no sense.

A 6TF PS4 Pro would run PS4 games at 4K or close, similar to what the Xbox One X does.

Generally I agree with this. For some reason the X punches above its paper specs.