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zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,215
"Over 8 times the GPU power of Xbox One"

If it was 12 TF, wouldn't he say over 9 times?

1.3 TF * 8 = 10.4 TF
1.3*9 = 11.7 TF

Xbox One X IS 6 TF though.

If he's accounting for architecture efficiency though, it becomes murkier.
Xbox One = Xbox One S...which is 1.4
1.4 * 8 = 11.2
1.4 * 9 = 12.6

Saying over 8 would fall in between 11.2 and 12.6...which would be 12 ;)

If he said over 9...it would be getting closer to 13TF.
 

EsqBob

Member
Nov 7, 2017
241
Guys, the 9TF estimation from WCCF is clearly a 10s guess from someone that doesn't spend all his time reading about console speculation, don't take it literally
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
The joke went straight over your head, son.

Also, no need to be such a sour puss. It's just toys.
Can this weird mentality that nothing discussing here matters at all because "it's just toys" go away already?

If people are here, spending their time and their days talking and discussing, then clearly it's something they take time out to do. Demeaning that is a really stupid way of feeling superior.
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,124
"Over 8 times the GPU power of Xbox One"

If it was 12 TF, wouldn't he say over 9 times?

1.3 TF * 8 = 10.4 TF
1.3*9 = 11.7 TF

Xbox One X IS 6 TF though.

If he's accounting for architecture efficiency though, it becomes murkier.

People have been using the Xbone S, which is 1.44...I don't that makes much sense though. The S is the S, even if it has become the base model now.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
lol at the 9 tflops hysteria. the gpu is likely over 400mm2. this all but confirms a 12-14 tflops part.

it seems phil was undersellling his gpu. i wouldnt be surprised to see him waiting for sony's console before upping the clocks on his gpu.

this seems like what i expected. both manufacturers are pushing each other. i highly doubt sony or ms are planning anything in the sub 10 tflops consoles. this is an arms race.
 

Dave.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,139
I like that explanation, but I've never seen such a tint from a reflection across any lightning conditions I can recall.

Here's a custom copper IHS for reference:

DSC_3478_1024x1024.jpg
There's no need for an IHS on a console chip - it does not get the cooler attached / detached / re-attached by end users often enough to warrant the cooling penalty of having a i7 / Ryzen-style IHS to trade for resilience. Direct contact is better, and even the PS4 Pro has a copper contact plate on it's heatsink, not taken apart an X myself or seen inside so unsure there but I very much expect it's vapor chamber is copper too.
 

Vinc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,387
Xbox One = Xbox One S...which is 1.4
1.4 * 8 = 11.2
1.4 * 9 = 12.6

Saying over 8 would fall in between 11.2 and 12.6...which would be 12 ;)

If he said over 9...it would be getting closer to 13TF.
Xbox one s is 1.4 tf fyi
People have been using the Xbone S, which is 1.44...I don't that makes much sense though. The S is the S, even if it has become the base model now.

Duh, that explains it, thanks y'all! It's gotta be 12 TF then, Phil essentially said it, unless he IS accounting for efficiency, but then the statement becomes a bit misleading.
 

Deusmico

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,254
lol at the 9 tflops hysteria. the gpu is likely over 400mm2. this all but confirms a 12-14 tflops part.

it seems phil was undersellling his gpu. i wouldnt be surprised to see him waiting for sony's console before upping the clocks on his gpu.

this seems like what i expected. both manufacturers are pushing each other. i highly doubt sony or ms are planning anything in the sub 10 tflops consoles. this is an arms race.

that would be an expensive console. you only go for this size if you have a cheaper console. so lockhart and 12+ confirmed from that pic....
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
There's no need for an IHS on a console chip - it does not get the cooler attached / detached / re-attached by end users often enough to warrant the cooling penalty of having a i7 / Ryzen-style IHS to trade for resilience. Direct contact is better, and even the PS4 Pro has a copper contact plate on it's heatsink, not taken apart an X myself or seen inside so unsure there but I very much expect it's vapor chamber is copper too.
Die are sensitive to the engraving process, the etching I see looks fairly extensive.
 

Screen Looker

Member
Nov 17, 2018
1,963
That reasoning is over my paygrade, I don't know enough of EE design to even speculate. I think that you would want testing configuration to resemble final one in as many aspects as possible. That's why I would assume that if anything, they have been enhancing their CUs with RT tech. They started early, so it's possible that tech was still under development in AMD when they wanted devkits out. We still haven't got any RDNA 2.0 Navi, right? So probably they had to wait. So I would assume they build everything they could at the moment, including BC, to focus on CU changes and appropriate APIs later on. But that's also based on my personal opinion that 36 Navi CUs at high clocks is just a good idea. It made BC simpler, chip isn't that big, bandwidth improves with clocks. It would just fit with their usual pricepoint and give them enough juice to make jaws drop.

I said many times - I think XSX surprised everybody, because nobody thought it is a realistic target. Now everybody expects Sony to beat it, even though it is risky to abandon their market-proven strategy of hitting relatively low 400$. We are about to see the start of subscription wars. Sony wants to move a lot of units quickly, to ensure PSN strength during generation change. This is how they make money. Not by pleasing hardcore segment with tech sheets. As long as they deliver on games, hardcore players will quickly forget about the specs. Mass market will never forget about the price. Everybody agrees that if MS delivers XSX at 500$, they will also deliver Lockhart, for exactly the same reasons - 500$ machine is too expensive to quickly grab enough market to ensure strong position in subscription race. I don't think Sony is a fan of multiple SKUs, they probably feel it would diminish their brand, cost too much and only complicate things. Therefore, I strongly believe they will hit 400$, with all the consequences of that.

I also think Sony temporarily lost the narrative. While in my opinion their 400$ box stragegy would be way better than performance wars,now they are framed into this spiral of expectations. It will be quite hard for marketing to break out of that, but if their launch window lineup is good, they will manage. I also think that DF material might have been there precisely to let people slowly accept it as reality, so they don't feel too disappointed and rather hype on new, awesome games.

Oh my gosh... ya'll... consoles do not come out for 10 months.

PlayStation 5 doesn't even have a full narrative yet not does Xbox Series X.

Again think 2 seconds your raw data is shit, 36 or 40 CU at 1800 or 2000 MHz has no sense at all. And there is RT and VRS in Sparkman and same it is regression test. Take the data and use your head two seconds.

36/40 CUs has no sense at all, I don't say they will be better than 9 TFlops but even at this power it will be better at 48, 52 or 56 CUs.

This has no sense out of having a problem of RROD inside PS5.

I understand you want your PS5 at 399 dollars but don't turn logic choice because it is not going with what you want. And other things 399 has nothing to do with 9 or 12 TFlops it is a financial decision. Like I said on another threads. The biggest problem of PS3 was not to lost at launch between 200 and 300 dollars. It was to cost 804 dollars to manufacture one. It means lost money on the console for four years. This is crazy, if we see the cost estimation of ZhugeEX about the Xbox Series X between 460 and 520 dollars, this is just a financial decision. ;)

Edit: Non uderclocked 5700XT at 2Ghz is 275 watts. This is insane.

My man said he's tired of your shit lol
 

EsqBob

Member
Nov 7, 2017
241
Has anyone here taken the great WCCF die size estimation and used it to make a good estimation of number of CUs instead of freaking out by the clearly poor TF estimation in the article?
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,291
well i guess you need to update you info

It's not a Verge leak.

Reading Tom's piece, The Verge is citing a Kotaku article that is over a month old, where Jason S. Reported 1440p based on a source who had been briefed on Lockharts performance being kin to a PS4 Pro. So not exactly news.

I also notice Tom does not mention that XSX is targeting 12 TF but instead he says targeting >10 TF.

Most interesting to me is that Tom asserts that "we understand that Lock will be part of holiday 2020 launch"


Maybe...
 

Chamon

Member
Feb 26, 2019
1,221
Whoa, Series X is 9 Tflop now? How did we get to this point? I've been away the whole day, can someone explain it to me?
Someone can't even read a full paragraph of an article, make a shitty post on resetera, and then everyone start repeating like parrots.

Edit: it seems that the article got updated before I read it. My bad, sorry.
 
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Bosch

Banned
May 15, 2019
3,680
lol at the 9 tflops hysteria. the gpu is likely over 400mm2. this all but confirms a 12-14 tflops part.

it seems phil was undersellling his gpu. i wouldnt be surprised to see him waiting for sony's console before upping the clocks on his gpu.

this seems like what i expected. both manufacturers are pushing each other. i highly doubt sony or ms are planning anything in the sub 10 tflops consoles. this is an arms race.
Man you are on a pipe dream...

14 tflops is never gonna happen.

Not even any chance of that.

The whole Apu is around 380-390mm2

The cpu will be bigger than jaguar one.

The gpu will be around 250-280 max so a 5700xt boosted at best 10-11(max)
 

cooldawn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,445
TFs are TFs. There aren't GCN TFs or RDNA TFs. What is different is how much power is required to reach those numbers depending on the architecture.
Right...so why, over the last one or two thread, was it a contentious point if it doesn't matter?

More appropriately, why did Digital Foundry request qualification from Microsoft without successful response?

If it's not important, why all this?

64 Cu's with 8 deactivated at 1700MHZ gets you to 12.2 RDNA TF's.
That SOC already exists and has Xbox One related BC modes.
There's different ways to get to ~12TF's...or any other number of reasonable outcomes.

All I'm saying it's still not a fix, not until Microsoft announce it as such.

I hope it is 12TF's and RDNA because 'sources' clearly indicate both consoles are close. That means both systems will be exceptional.
 

TheUnseenTheUnheard

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 25, 2018
9,647
It's interesting that we haven't heard much from Sony at all.

And here we have Phil Spencer showing us his big chip.
 
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