PS5 and Xbox Series speculation launch thread |OT9| - For flops sake!

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tutomos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,037
People who play games on PC usually aren’t talking about what console they may or may not play.

And again as I said above, the majority of “PlayStation exclusives“ make their way to PC as well.

So the “ill just play it on PC” line works for PlayStation as well.

Doesn’t make sense to say that when comparing the consoles especially considering we are a year away and have absolutely no idea what games will be on either system. Answering that question now with the answer he gave, screams console war imo.
Mike being real. Shame he left MS otherwise he could give them some real advise.
 

Basarili

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,298
Haarlem
User Banned (3 Days): Platform Warring, Thread Whining, and Antagonizing Other Users
100 000 or so posts on Era about speculation on PS5 and XBOX. Some newcomers to the game industry are hearing TFLOPS and talk as if Sony has no gaming history and are doomed cause of some leaks might show they have a weaker console...

Sorry to burst the bubble of some people and mine too as I was almost getting sucked into this whole debate about that the PS5 is inferior due to less teraflops or what not.
The real world said hello to me and some others here I hope. Just the logo got more likes then xbox reveals. It just showcased to Me atleast how big that brand is and as someone living in Europe, Netherlands we have been and always been a Playstation country.
The xbox might sell good in Scandinavian and America, but it's that bubble again. Normal folks outside all of us won't be looking to which one has more powers.
Not immediately in the first year. Some people don't even care. I keep repeating myself.

We can still post some 100 000 more posts about rumours and which one is better or not. The outcome of sales will not be as some of us here think.
I still love reading through here as the conspiracy theories are even passing the levels of my beloved MGS games.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
1,440
So we're getting large die for series x, expected. Small chip with high clocks never made sense for consoles.

Now I'm even more skeptical about the 36cu 2Ghz configuration.

I expect the PS5 to be wide and slow clock design as well.
They always made sense and now with die space being more and more expensive, they'll make even more sense. That's probably why both NVIDIA and AMD have been going after higher and higher clocks while concentrating on efficiency.
 

mordecaii83

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,553
You are playing semantics here.

You’re the one being disingenuous. Not me
You're factually wrong, you're still playing on a PS4 but the image is being streamed to your PC. The game is still physically running on a PS4 and has only ever been released on PS4.

This is 100% different from a native PC version being released so you're actually running it on your own PC hardware which means 0 compromises and usually a better experience vs the console version.
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,451
User Banned (5 Days): Platform Warring; Prior Bans for Platform Warring
100 000 or so posts on Era about speculation on PS5 and XBOX. Some newcomers to the game industry are hearing TFLOPS and talk as if Sony has no gaming history and are doomed cause of some leaks might show they have a weaker console...

Sorry to burst the bubble of some people and mine too as I was almost getting sucked into this whole debate about that the PS5 is inferior due to less teraflops or what not.
The real world said hello to me and some others here I hope. Just the logo got more likes then xbox reveals. It just showcased to Me atleast how big that brand is and as someone living in Europe, Netherlands we have been and always been a Playstation country.
The xbox might sell good in Scandinavian and America, but it's that bubble again. Normal folks outside all of us won't be looking to which one has more powers.
Not immediately in the first year. Some people don't even care. I keep repeating myself.

We can still post some 100 000 more posts about rumours and which one is better or not. The outcome of sales will not be as some of us here think.
I still love reading through here as the conspiracy theories are even passing the levels of my beloved MGS games.
Your absolutely right. The Xbox One X is more powerful than PS4 Pro - and even in the US it's barely a blip in sales.

It's a cautionary tale to shoot higher than 399.
 

MonsterMech

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,006
You're factually wrong, you're still playing on a PS4 but the image is being streamed to your PC. The game is still physically running on a PS4 and has only ever been released on PS4.

This is 100% different from a native PC version being released so you're actually running it on your own PC hardware which means 0 compromises and usually a better experience vs the console version.
Lol. Ok you got it
 

Jaypah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,522
100 000 or so posts on Era about speculation on PS5 and XBOX. Some newcomers to the game industry are hearing TFLOPS and talk as if Sony has no gaming history and are doomed cause of some leaks might show they have a weaker console...

Sorry to burst the bubble of some people and mine too as I was almost getting sucked into this whole debate about that the PS5 is inferior due to less teraflops or what not.
The real world said hello to me and some others here I hope. Just the logo got more likes then xbox reveals. It just showcased to Me atleast how big that brand is and as someone living in Europe, Netherlands we have been and always been a Playstation country.
The xbox might sell good in Scandinavian and America, but it's that bubble again. Normal folks outside all of us won't be looking to which one has more powers.
Not immediately in the first year. Some people don't even care. I keep repeating myself.

We can still post some 100 000 more posts about rumours and which one is better or not. The outcome of sales will not be as some of us here think.
I still love reading through here as the conspiracy theories are even passing the levels of my beloved MGS games.
Is there a secret second speculation thread where people are saying XSX is going to outsell the PS5? Because in this series of threads the prevailing thought is that PS5 will continue to be market leader and BC is only going to help with that.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
14,019
Not America
GTX 680 was a 3 TFlop card. Way beyond Xbox One and PS4, but yeah, the new consoles will blow this out of the water.

Even Lockhart will surpass Star Wars 1313 at 1080p/1440p.
I am looking at the shadow draw distance and it is immense.

Well I would hope so because it’s a demo from 2012 that really doesn’t look much better than what we have now
Looking at the lack of notable LoD transitions, that alone makes it very impressive (again, why I suspect it may not real time) and is quite unmatched by any current gen games on consoles. Caveat being that organic structures due to their shape and detail generally have more noticeable LoD transition than artificial building structures.
 

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,873
100 000 or so posts on Era about speculation on PS5 and XBOX. Some newcomers to the game industry are hearing TFLOPS and talk as if Sony has no gaming history and are doomed cause of some leaks might show they have a weaker console...

Sorry to burst the bubble of some people and mine too as I was almost getting sucked into this whole debate about that the PS5 is inferior due to less teraflops or what not.
The real world said hello to me and some others here I hope. Just the logo got more likes then xbox reveals. It just showcased to Me atleast how big that brand is and as someone living in Europe, Netherlands we have been and always been a Playstation country.
The xbox might sell good in Scandinavian and America, but it's that bubble again. Normal folks outside all of us won't be looking to which one has more powers.
Not immediately in the first year. Some people don't even care. I keep repeating myself.

We can still post some 100 000 more posts about rumours and which one is better or not. The outcome of sales will not be as some of us here think.
I still love reading through here as the conspiracy theories are even passing the levels of my beloved MGS games.
First off please cite the posts where anyone is talking about Sony being "doomed" or even saying that Xbox will sell more consoles than PlayStation in the next generation. And secondly I have to laugh at all of the recent talk about social media likes and who will sell more consoles, as it has literally zero impact on me as the end consumer and gamer that will be buying these products and services. I will be very excited and happy to play games on an Xbox Series X with Game Pass regardless of those metrics, and potentially having more raw processing power available and of course insane subscription value with the entire launch lineup and beyond actually does affect my experience as a gamer.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,752
They always made sense and now with die space being more and more expensive, they'll make even more sense. That's probably why both NVIDIA and AMD have been going after higher and higher clocks while concentrating on efficiency.
It don't make sense if you clock the chips so high that the yields became worst that a larger chip.
Then it end up costing more than going wide and slow with a decent clock speed.
There is a reason why AMD new cards are not clock as high as 2ghz .
If they could and yields were good they would have done so .
 

panda-zebra

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,856
DF asking quesstions again. Hope they're going to be more scientific in their measuring than some have been.
 

Proven

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,049
Your absolutely right. The Xbox One X is more powerful than PS4 Pro - and even in the US it's barely a blip in sales.

It's a cautionary tale to shoot higher than 399.
Which is why Xbox is making Lockhart. A 299 console that will sell a lot and a more expensive one that will be the power leader
 

CROAT_56

Member
Dec 18, 2019
223
Is there a secret second speculation thread where people are saying XSX is going to outsell the PS5? Because in this series of threads the prevailing thought is that PS5 will continue to be market leader and BC is only going to help with that.
Even the most fervent fanboys know that Sony has sales on lock mainly due to the number of markets they’re in compared to MS specifically Xbox. I believe the 4 is in 15 more markets compared to the X1. My thought is until MS decides to actually support more markets than US/UK Sony will continue to win regardless of specs or services.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,588
The point is even a failure beat Xbox worldwide. There was no shift in mindshare.
There was absolutely a shift in mindshare and marketshare. MS and Nintendo both grew in this area... at Sony's expense. Sony had to work their asses off to edge out the 360 and regain their dominance with PS4. None of this just happened because of their brand. They dug this one out... and they'll have to keep their foot on the gas, regardless of how their logo does on social media
 
Jan 5, 2020
37
Semplicemente con la scritta basata sul raytracing vuol dire che punteranno forte su questo redering per esperienze fotorealistiche i teraflop sono importanti, ma se hai più potenza di calcolo per ray tracing hai più possibilita di sfruttare meglio la potenza per fare altro e non penalizzare frame rate e anche perché la 2080ti con rtx abilitato crolla nel frame rate del 40% vuol dire che se una consol punta un buon frame rate e risoluzione devi migliorare il hardware raytracing possibile seno 10 12 16 tera nn ci fai nulla
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,752
There was absolutely a shift in mindshare and marketshare. MS and Nintendo both grew in this area... at Sony's expense. Sony had to work their asses off to edge out the 360 and regain their dominance with PS4. None of this just happened because of their brand. They dug this one out... and they'll have to keep their foot on the gas, regardless of how their logo does on social media
MS you can say that but not Nintendo.
Even now Nintendo doing there own thing and that not effecting MS and Sony really.
 

VinFTW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
100 000 or so posts on Era about speculation on PS5 and XBOX. Some newcomers to the game industry are hearing TFLOPS and talk as if Sony has no gaming history and are doomed cause of some leaks might show they have a weaker console...

Sorry to burst the bubble of some people and mine too as I was almost getting sucked into this whole debate about that the PS5 is inferior due to less teraflops or what not.
The real world said hello to me and some others here I hope. Just the logo got more likes then xbox reveals. It just showcased to Me atleast how big that brand is and as someone living in Europe, Netherlands we have been and always been a Playstation country.
The xbox might sell good in Scandinavian and America, but it's that bubble again. Normal folks outside all of us won't be looking to which one has more powers.
Not immediately in the first year. Some people don't even care. I keep repeating myself.

We can still post some 100 000 more posts about rumours and which one is better or not. The outcome of sales will not be as some of us here think.
I still love reading through here as the conspiracy theories are even passing the levels of my beloved MGS games.
Your absolutely right. The Xbox One X is more powerful than PS4 Pro - and even in the US it's barely a blip in sales.

It's a cautionary tale to shoot higher than 399.
Do you hear this everyone?

Guess we should pack it up, no one actually cares about power (in a tech/specs thread), playstation is more popular so who cares everybody

/s
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,012
PS5 gpu cannot be a 9.2TF gpu under the reasons shown in the github leak.
It might be 7TF, 8TF, 12TF, or even 9.2TF, but not 36CUs @2000Mhz.
Honestly, people should consider forgeting about that number, because there is no way in this world, and there is no breakthrough in thermals and efficiency that would allow 2Ghz navi cores to even exist inside of an APU that should be used for at least 8 years.
I don't get why highly educated people (in hardware terms) such as Richard Leadbetter couldn't dismiss the 2000Mhz idea right away.
Did you read Lisa Su’s comments? It can be engineered in different ways for different thermal profiles. See below.
Ah yes, a compact flash port.



Navi is already 7nm. The key news is that they actually seem to have redesigned the GPU for mobile. Not just downclocked an equivalent desktop part.
your exactly right
No, I mean people actively disputing or dismissing these same points. Not just people skipping some posts. We all do that.

Person A: “OMG a 2080 costs 900, there’s no way you’ll get that performance in a console!!!”

Person B: “Actually, [numbers]”

Person A: “Whatever, consoles will be 8TF because that’s what a 5700 is. You can’t change my mind.”
you got it
It’s so awesome to have people like Albert writing in this forum!
Makes the speculation thread much more interesting!
for certain!
 

Samurai G0SU

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,350
Denver, CO
100 000 or so posts on Era about speculation on PS5 and XBOX. Some newcomers to the game industry are hearing TFLOPS and talk as if Sony has no gaming history and are doomed cause of some leaks might show they have a weaker console...

Sorry to burst the bubble of some people and mine too as I was almost getting sucked into this whole debate about that the PS5 is inferior due to less teraflops or what not.
The real world said hello to me and some others here I hope. Just the logo got more likes then xbox reveals. It just showcased to Me atleast how big that brand is and as someone living in Europe, Netherlands we have been and always been a Playstation country.
The xbox might sell good in Scandinavian and America, but it's that bubble again. Normal folks outside all of us won't be looking to which one has more powers.
Not immediately in the first year. Some people don't even care. I keep repeating myself.

We can still post some 100 000 more posts about rumours and which one is better or not. The outcome of sales will not be as some of us here think.
I still love reading through here as the conspiracy theories are even passing the levels of my beloved MGS games.
Plenty of things to think about on why the brand is huge.
PlayStation released in 1994
Xbox released in 2001
That is just one of the simplest answers(time), on the amount of data to provide, on how well each company is doing in their respective time-line.
the bottome line is ... Both are doing great. Both will release amazing next-gen machines. There isn't any bubble and there isn't any factual data on which system has a higher number. Plenty of reliable sources say they are nearly identical. Perhaps maybe a 10-15% difference.
Not sure what you mean by "normal folks" though ...
 

Basarili

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,298
Haarlem
Is there a secret second speculation thread where people are saying XSX is going to outsell the PS5? Because in this series of threads the prevailing thought is that PS5 will continue to be market leader and BC is only going to help with that.
Also bcatwilly

Some posts are like a bellydancer turning around and indirectly they favour to one side and believe one leaker and not the other or the parts they want to believe.

Plenty of things to think about on why the brand is huge.
PlayStation released in 1994
Xbox released in 2001
That is just one of the simplest answers(time), on the amount of data to provide, on how well each company is doing in their respective time-line.
the bottome line is ... Both are doing great. Both will release amazing next-gen machines. There isn't any bubble and there isn't any factual data on which system has a higher number. Plenty of reliable sources say they are nearly identical. Perhaps maybe a 10-15% difference.
Not sure what you mean by "normal folks" though ...
Mum, dad, gamer who buys only one game per year (FiFA, CoD etc) without looking at the specs of a console, but goes with what her or his friends has.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,752
Plenty of things to think about on why the brand is huge.
PlayStation released in 1994
Xbox released in 2001
That is just one of the simplest answers(time), on the amount of data to provide, on how well each company is doing in their respective time-line.
the bottome line is ... Both are doing great. Both will release amazing next-gen machines. There isn't any bubble and there isn't any factual data on which system has a higher number. Plenty of reliable sources say they are nearly identical. Perhaps maybe a 10-15% difference.
Not sure what you mean by "normal folks" though ...
Time is not a answer since both Sega and Nintendo came out before Sony and never get there sales numbers Sony got on there first try .
There a lot of factors yes but time is not one of them .
 

Jaypah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,522
Also bcatwilly

Some posts are like a bellydancer turning around and indirectly they favour to one side and believe one leaker and not the other or the parts they want to believe.
Ok, that's called fanboyism and it happens on both sides. What does that have to do with your post about people saying the XSX is going to outsell the PS5? Look around, nobody is saying that.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,588
MS you can say that but not Nintendo.
Even now Nintendo doing there own thing and that not effecting MS and Sony really.
Sure, A lot of people had overlapping interests due to Nintendo zigging when others zag, but its inarguable that a lot of consumer $ that would have gone to Sony in the prior gen, was instead going to Nintendo and MS.

If someone only had a PS2 , but in the following generation, split their time and $ between wii & ps3, that's a negative on Sony's share.
 

Samurai G0SU

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,350
Denver, CO
Time is not a answer since both Sega and Nintendo came out before Sony and never get there sales numbers Sony got on there first try .
There a lot of factors yes but time is not one of them .
7 years to gain partnerships, relationships, experience and etc is absolutely something not to dismiss. its just one out of many, many, many things. part of the whole reply and idea is to recognize that not one singular thing determines their success.
on a side note: plenty of companies use their years of experience to leverage their company vs others. ala time
 

DukeBlueBall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,500
Seattle, WA
100 000 or so posts on Era about speculation on PS5 and XBOX. Some newcomers to the game industry are hearing TFLOPS and talk as if Sony has no gaming history and are doomed cause of some leaks might show they have a weaker console...

Sorry to burst the bubble of some people and mine too as I was almost getting sucked into this whole debate about that the PS5 is inferior due to less teraflops or what not.
The real world said hello to me and some others here I hope. Just the logo got more likes then xbox reveals. It just showcased to Me atleast how big that brand is and as someone living in Europe, Netherlands we have been and always been a Playstation country.
The xbox might sell good in Scandinavian and America, but it's that bubble again. Normal folks outside all of us won't be looking to which one has more powers.
Not immediately in the first year. Some people don't even care. I keep repeating myself.

We can still post some 100 000 more posts about rumours and which one is better or not. The outcome of sales will not be as some of us here think.
I still love reading through here as the conspiracy theories are even passing the levels of my beloved MGS games.
Why are we talking about sales and social media likes in a specs thread. :D
 

sncvsrtoip

Member
Apr 18, 2019
2,071
So record size die for apu, also record power consumption ? Btw if Klee source is right and ps5 is slightly faster, what the hell is ps5 soc ;d
 
Nov 11, 2017
2,479
Your absolutely right. The Xbox One X is more powerful than PS4 Pro - and even in the US it's barely a blip in sales.

It's a cautionary tale to shoot higher than 399.
Pretty stupid comparison , you comparing midgen upgrades where mindshare/sales were already 3-1. We've never had a generation where two competiting consoles released together and one was more powerful at a higher price point versus the weaker at a lower.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,752
So record size die for apu, also record power consumption ? Btw if Klee source is right and ps5 is slightly faster, what the hell is ps5 soc ;d
If what Klee saying is true .
Sony then went with same size higher clocks or smaller size higher clocks .
Cause them going bigger just seem like a huge WTF lol.
There cooling solution going to be very interesting to see.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
1,440
But after yesterday with amd incapable to delivery a big navi this tell a lot for what to expect.
Big NAVI is due at the end of the year. What does AMD gain from revealing it 8-11 months before release? Other than stunting some of the sales of their current cards and letting NVIDIA know what they have planned?

It don't make sense if you clock the chips so high that the yields became worst that a larger chip.
Then it end up costing more than going wide and slow with a decent clock speed.
There is a reason why AMD new cards are not clock as high as 2ghz .
If they could and yields were good they would have done so .
It doesn't make sense if you think you have all the info, which we don't. At least with previous data showing that die costs would increase tremendously from 16nm/12/10nm to 7nm, we can infer going bigger would be costlier than trying to increase clocks, even if yields were poorer. If you're thinking about bringing up that efficiency graph/table again, save yourself the trouble.

Currently on the market AMD has the 5700 and 5700xt. Poorly optimized cards they rushed to market yet they still hit ~1800 game clock out of the box. Now you have the 5600xt coming. That's looking to be based on 5700 reject dies. All those bad dies that AMD has been putting away for the past year or so. They need smaller, cheaper cards to bring to market. That's the market they can gain in. That's why they went after 1440p with 5700xt and that's why they're going after 1080p with 5600xt. It's not a case of "if they could, they would".

Having said that, I can't see 2Ghz in a console just as I can't see 40/40 cu in a console.
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,451
Which is why Xbox is making Lockhart. A 299 console that will sell a lot and a more expensive one that will be the power leader
If PS5 is 399 - and has 9TF of GPU performance, Lockhart will look like an outright bad value and I highly doubt mainstream audiences will flock to a 4.x TF machine at 299.

Do you hear this everyone?

Guess we should pack it up, no one actually cares about power (in a tech/specs thread), playstation is more popular so who cares everybody

/s
No one said that. But console sales help dictate budgets for exclusives, the health of the platform, and the ambition for developers.

This thread is literally boiling down to the only thing that matters is TF. I've even read posts who act like Sony's SSD breakthroughs, 3D audio innovation, and controller evolution are meaningless.


Power doesn't dictate the health of a platform, and pointing that out isn't some fanboy revelation.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
14,019
Not America
So record size die for apu, also record power consumption ? Btw if Klee source is right and ps5 is slightly faster, what the hell is ps5 soc ;d
Faster =/= (necessarily) More powerful.

Given the way Cerny talked about PS5's storage solution, PS5's I/O might become the benchmark in console space (till it's inevitably broken). Only Sony and devs know the real world implications of said solution (as opposed to how it looks on paper).
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
2,923
We don't have the whole picture. Will they make more money by losing some console sales (and all that come with it), and getting the whole PC market as new potential customers, or to keep going with console exclusives like Sony does ?
Honesly, I'm pretty sure they are (and will) earn more money with their strategy than if they were keeping to the same strategy as Sony. We mustn't forget that this gen, even with a "console only strategy" at the beginning, it didn't went so well. They just are not Sony, and for now at least, I'm pretty sure that most people would go the PS5 route even if Xbox games weren't on PC.
The person that was asked the question wasn’t a random nobody. He’s a former, longtime member of the Xbox team and it surprising how he’s been on social media for a while.

The best case outcome for MS is for gamers to buy their console, and continue to w games - including 3rd party games - on the console. Microsoft makes money from people buying and playing FIFA and COD on the Series X. They make no money from Windows gamers that purchase these games off Steam.

Dude could easily have answered ‘both consoles’.
 

sncvsrtoip

Member
Apr 18, 2019
2,071
Faster =/= (necessarily) More powerful.

Given the way Cerny talked about PS5's storage solution, PS5's I/O might become the benchmark in console space (till it's inevitably broken). Only Sony and devs know the real world implications of said solution (as opposed to how it looks on paper).
Nah, Klee said it has slighlty advatage in tflops (not taking into account ssd speed)
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,165
Seattle
Time is not a answer since both Sega and Nintendo came out before Sony and never get there sales numbers Sony got on there first try .
There a lot of factors yes but time is not one of them .
Time is a factor; it's just not the only factor.

Sony wasn't some brand new company when they entered this market and either was Microsoft; the time the companies existed before and their branding / popularity effected their console businesses from the start.

Sony with decades of positive brand recognition from being a high-end electronics company.. MS with decades of negative brand recognition from blue screens of death and being known for anti-consumer / anti-competitive. MS of course did have recognition though..even despite their not-so-great reputation they were one of the most known companies in the world.

Sony still to this day GREATLY benefits from decades of positive image. You wouldn't know they were the creators of SecureROM, some of the worst DRM ever.. the creators of Blu-Ray.. which had DRM that was going to require you connect your BR player to the internet to watch movies (sound familar? lol).. the only 1st party console manufacturer participating in those awful "online pass DRM" things.. nobody has a memory or association with Sony for that stuff because of their positive image. They released the jokey video of their CEO lending someone a game and suddenly they were the heros of anti-DRM. (while quietly cancelling the online pass system.. the NEXT day lol)

Meanwhile MS proposed a DRM system everyone hated and then cancelled it within months before launch and still have the stench of that on their reputation.

Time definitely matters; the time you spend with a positive image gets burned into people's heads and the time you spend with a negative one does too.

Don't get me wrong Sony got their from having excellent products; but along the way ALWAYS did anti-consumer stuff. They just "won" a lot of the wars they fought, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it's funny how consumers just have this super rosy picture of them as super consumer friendly.
 
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