Klee is this you? What lol ? He said what he needed to say it's all in the threadmarks
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PS5 and Xbox Series speculation launch thread |OT9| - For flops sake!
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Klee wasn't going to say anything anyways. He himself said as much. That's how "insiders" work.
He asked for the ban because he felt that he was becoming a distraction to the thread and had said everything he was comfortable saying. May come back but nothing confirmed.
This, and probably with RT. I think some ppl are overlooking this too.
I see some posts mentioning next gen only games might come sooner this time. I say bring it, especially if the tech and tools allow for easier development.
I have a feeling we will here more about the SSDs than the TF soon. I know it's been said before but I'm more excited about the SSD. Especially since my one next gen wish was granted....suspend/resume multiple games. I cannot wait to see how this is done.
I'm certain we'll see some crazy shit eventually. First, though, I'm really looking forward to seamless SSD level design. No more slow elevators, cracks in walls, etc. permeating the fundamental structure of so many games. It's not the kind of crazy, turning-design-on-its-head excitement you're wanting, but I think it's going to create a real feeling of... relief, like taking off boots made of stone that you've been wearing for years.
That's the thing - if games are still built with Xbox One in mind, will that come to pass?
We talked about it more in previous threads but here is a summary, but tbh it's just scratching the surface of what is possible. Next gen will offer huge opportunities creatively.
===== ykw - just gonna copy out the whole thing for a new thread tbh because its a common question =====
Chris 1515 & BreakAtmo have touched on this already but if you want to see if for yourself we talked about it in the previous thread: (thanks to Vitamin_B_Complex for the GDC link)
& quoting myself again from earlier in OT5:
Fast data streaming opens up a lot more doors than just loading, data de-deplication, & reducing pop-in. It offers a lot of creative opportunities for solving things that were difficult or impossible to do on current hardware and for new ideas that developers probably haven't even come up with yet.
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Can't wait for the epic Kratos Vs Thor fight where one punch literally sends you into another realm.
Dictator (Digital Foundry) - How game design can be impacted by next gen consoles.
I think the first major changes to game design vs. what we saw this gen will be due to CPU advantages at the start of the generation. More AI, more complex physics, more unique objects on screen and such. That is a much more simple hardware metric to take advantage of than rewriting the entire way your engine loads data from disk and puts it into memory and then designing entire game systems around that. SSDs at the beginning will primarily be used to speed up game loading, making it pretty trivial. That is not a large change to game design though.
I imagine most games will still be pretty traditional for a while - dedicated levels, dedicated cutscenes, dedicated front ends/uis for each area of the game (multiplayer/singleplayer/etc.). Not every game needs to be 100% seamless all the time / give the player full agency necessarily. The spider man camera thing that they demod on PS5 is just a test case. On ps4 the camera was hardware limited to a certain degree to a certain speed, faster than that speed, the game would probably stutter as it loaded in objects too slowly from disk. But how necessary is it for most games out there, honestly, that the camera move really rapidly? Spiderman/the player won't need to move that quickly!
Only later on, and then, only for games that need it (for which many have no need for it), will some developers leverage the different way SSDs can do loading vs. before.
He banned himself. There were a lot of people kind of beating up on him because he wouldn't divulge more intel. He didn't want to risk slipping up and outing his source which sounds like someone he's been friends with for a long time.
He doesn't want to be tempted to correct someone's information, which would have ramifications to where he got his information.
So he banned himself, and will return once things are announced.
I just want to see a huge Fenrir. It's going to be monstrous.
I would also add a game where the main mechanic is dragging a file from a folder in drive C: to drive D:.
I was thinking we should at least get some PS5 exclusives that do it, and I strongly doubt that any insistence on sticking hard to the X1 will last past holiday 2021.
Frankly, I'm more worried about devs not designing around SSDs for the PC versions.
They will be on the same disc.
That's not going to happen until a certain point in time, and we don't know when that is. It may never happen, xbox games might simply get rebranded "xbox" and you have to check icons for support of your particular hardware. I posted earlier in the thread but seemingly nobody wanted to discuss.
This is what'll happen at retail:
You'll walk into a store and see ps5 games next to ps4 games. Unique games, unique branding, exclusives only for that platform. On the other shelves will be xbox one games, possibly rebranded to simply "xbox" games for newer titles after some point this year. There's absolutely no need for a new box/colour/branding if the platform holder itself isn't even releasing a single exclusive title for the platfrom in the first year or two, if all games are scaleable and simply perform better on better hardware.
In that light, for me, xbox series x really is effectively another mid-gen refresh just like the xbox 1 x and promises of being truly generationless are borne out. this isn't generation 8, generation 8.5 or generation 9 for Microsoft. It's just xbox. You will buy the xbox version of the game and download patches and texture packs if required just as you do with xbox 1 x is you have a series x. No idea what would happen if a 3rd party wanted to release an exclusive series x game at launch, or even if it's possible because it's the same scenario as the 1x where it is mandated you have to support the xb1 and 1x as well, nobody gets left behind.
For me that's a potential perception nightmare for microsoft at retail. People go in a store, see ps4 and ps5 alongside each other. They instantly know what's up - there's a new playstation, it's more powerful, it's a new generation. Look at the xbox aisle and... what? But I don't think they care because retail is a small and diminishing part of their plans.
This is impossible. The die size of the Xbox Series X is 380 to 407 mm2. You can't go higher at 7nm. At best it will be around 12 Tflops for PS5.
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Will they ? Microsoft will not force 3rd party to develop game also for x one ;)
I feel the opposite .
This gen was a new gfx card where this next gen feels like a new console.
Only the Ram saw a good jump last gen and the GPU was okay .
Next gen everything is a huge jump.
First party games but we'll see how it goes.
Either way, I realize that, personally, it just comes down to workload. I really don't like the idea of having to include all last-gen consoles in videos in addition to the new ones. It might be the straw that breaks my back! It's just too much.
He banned himself because of being constantly asked to verify, deny and constantly quoted coupled with him being scared he might say more than he already done putting his friend who leaked to him at risk so did not find it worth.
He made it seem he might return later perhaps after the spec reveals when the risk are gone.
Imagine the workload on developers that have to make sure it runs well on the S and X :)
And Sutr. His sword was huge when you saw it in Muspelheim which means he should be massive. Like GoW1 (PS2) Ares size
This, very much. Games jump should be PS2->X360 at the very least. I would prefer SNES->N64, of course.
You have PlayStation and they seem to have first party dropping the current gen hardware for launch titles.
Don't forget the business aspect of it, which is especially at the beginning of a new gen --> install base old gen --> potential buyers
Yes, it's awful for them too! I've yet to speak with a developer that likes working on Xbox One S - so I'd imagine there is disappointment in needing to support it going forward. It's a very troubled machine.
Do you really not see games similar to Jedi Fallen Order getting rid of all the masked loading very quickly? Having all these great ideas for level designs and then having to restrict them and split them up and load them with ways to slow the player (and kill the pacing) sounds like such a tremendous pain in the ass, and it crossed me as the sort of thing devs would be desperate to escape from ASAP to the point of preparing for it in advance.
Especially if it is running like trash. Who wants to cover that let alone spend the time away from the more interesting thing? (the next gen version)
There is no joy in covering something like Shadow of Mordor on PS3
You sure you read what I wrote? I said that it will trivialise loading. That does not mean every game though will suddenly have a 100% seemless world thnough.
I really don't know if there is going to be a PS5 event next month. with the rumors of Sony skipping E3 I really think they will hold something in the summer and blow it all out. They really don't need E3 anymore. I just feel that Sony is completely in control right now.
Imagine the pain for a first party dev coding and testing for Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox Series X and potentially Xbox Lockhart.
I also hate the fact that a lot of developers need to still keep Xbox One S in mind while coding. Either the game is going to get compromised by that console or that specific build for the console is going to be horrible.
Will it be physics that actually affect gameplay (Control) or just minor stuff like Lara's axe bouncing dynamically on her belt? That's what I want to know.
Plus it's not only the hardware there is a lot of up coming tech that will make things interesting to see what they do with it.
Like RT , VSR , engine adjustments for the SSD , AI for certain jobs etc etc .
I must've misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that literal loading screens would be gone but that current level/environment design would stick around for a while, because you said the loading removal "wasn't a large change to game design". My bad.
I've acquired some hidden camera footage of you at the Redmond headquarters:
First party games and i would add Rockstar in that category as well.
I noticed you often mention "time,budget and talent" when you talk about those games in DF videos and i fully agree,that's often much more important that raw specs.
For a while I've been envisaging a racing game like say, Mario Kart, where a pickup item like the lightning bolt doesn't make everyone smaller but completely changes the track either immediately or in realtime similar to the wavey visual effect when you land a huge jump while in Tricky status in SSX (2012). Whatever race strategy you had now needs to change immediately to adapt...
Or one where you can chose to play a set of tracks together as a "playlist" course and they all seamlessly transition from one to another as you cross the staring line for each for example. The latter could probably be done now with some smart asset caching, but I don't see how the former could happen without either eating a load of RAM or an SSD.
Or one where you can chose to play a set of tracks together as a "playlist" course and they all seamlessly transition from one to another as you cross the staring line for each for example. The latter could probably be done now with some smart asset caching, but I don't see how the former could happen without either eating a load of RAM or an SSD.
coding for a few console specs is still easier than coding for infinity pc specs, i'd wager.
I worry about 3rd party devs the most .
We talking 7 to 9 systems they have to work with for maybe 2 years .
Sony devs that just making PS5 games must be happy when looking at other devs .
Happy new year! Welcome back!
Coming from a playstation fan!
*hides in cover* *activating defense system* *requesting backup*
;P
Breath of the wild sequel where link plays a melody and the world changes around him. What's more "Nintendo" than having a dual world design. Zelda OOT with the past and future worlds, Metroid Prime 2 with the dark world, imagine that in real-time changing around you :)
#WishNintendoWasInThePowerRace
Drop those comparisons then. Those who watch your stuff probably are build up of 99% enthusiasts and will want to know how well games will run on the new gen consoles and PC and spend a fraction on the current gen. The 1% that might be mad is not worth burning yourself out on.
Do you have any specific ideas about what next gen tech would enable from a gameplay/game design standpoint?
I was thinking that it could do something that's been the dream of open world games, especially that of GTA.... Every building has an interior. Every building has a "floor plan" which are instructions on geometry, materials and internal assets (furniture) and then as you approach, the SSD is able to load in all the necessary assets on the fly.
The other thing I think it might enable is complete level geometry/assets swap. It could be near instantaneous teleportation across an open world, or be used to change the world around you. Imagine a time travel game where you can flash into the past or the future seamlessly.
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