PS5 and Xbox Series speculation launch thread |OT9| - For flops sake!

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Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,294
Germany
I think if they are more powerful they will want to get that messaging out there. So far Xbox has talked about specs, even shown a picture of their chip, and are using “Fastest, Most Powerful” as one of their slogans. If Sony comes out and starts to talk about how they are super powerful then I understand your point. Again, I’m just reading the tea leaves based on what is out there.
 

Anastasis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
538
I do not think that attending E3 or not was a question of money. They just have another vision how to sell their vision to potential customers and they just execute their plan.
Completely agree. If the haptic feedback controllers and 3D audio are pretty cool, what better way to sell the PS5 then "by participating in hundreds of consumer events across the globe"?
 
Nov 15, 2018
74
Yeah I know. They’re paying 60ish million if we believe what he said to

-Market your new console to the entire world
-Get a ton of free press
- Hype up your fans
You don’t need E3 to do any of that though. Thanks to the influence of social media. As long as Sony pushes out news during that time. I’m almost certain they would get the same amount of eyes on their brand without shelling out upwards of around 60mil.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,000
Hmm, God of War for PS4 was revealed at E3 2016 and was out in April of 2018.
And I don't think we gonna wait till 2025 to see the next GOW released if the engine is alreayd here and mostly the sequel is fully designed just waiting to be made.
The game has a great chance of being a 2022 release so reveal during PS Meeting would make a perfect sense and be the perfect thing to do.
 

D3M0N666

Member
Jan 18, 2019
74
And I don't think we gonna wait till 2025 to see the next GOW released if the engine is alreayd here and mostly the sequel is fully designed just waiting to be made.
The game has a great chance of being a 2022 release so reveal during PS Meeting would make a perfect sense and be the perfect thing to do.
Just being cheeky, considering the game didnt have an ending and some worlds were locked out it felt a bit cheap like they were still working on it so they could push a sequel out quicker
 

ForgedByGeeks

Member
Dec 1, 2017
573
Woodinville, WA
I love all the people baking at the rumored $30m and $60m price tags for E3.

Even back when I did reporting on E3 and TGS, we would regularly hear numbers like $20m to $30m for booths. This was back around 2006.

To understand how those numbers are a thing, you need to understand what goes into a show like E3 for a studio or publisher.

Aside from the fees for floor staff, booth space, etc... You also have to pay for space and rooms in the basement where all the real business meetings around E3 are held.

Beyond this, for a company like Microsoft or Sony, you have to pay dozens of full time and contract employees for easily 3-5 months to work on your show presence. This includes planning, design, manufacturing, and setup of every single little thing you see on the show floor. Most of it is custom designed and built for each individual show. All of stations people line up to play at are built to extreme levels of tolerance to be able to stand up to whatever abuse convention goers throw at them. This is not cheap.

Making a simple flat hanging sign and getting it hung on the show floor can easily cost $15,000. Now imaging making one that is circular, multi-layered, covered on lights or LED displays, and making sure it is solid enough, safe enough, and sturdy enough to get hung at the show. Then getting it raised up.

In addition to flying out, feeding, and housing all your employees and contractors you also need to coordinate meetings and events with tons of other studios and publishing houses. This isn't just a couple days to party and show off games. E3 is a business gathering. Outside of TGS business days, E3 is pretty much the only place where so many studios send top talent and you can arrange group meetings in private without risk of exposure. Part of what you are paying for is the opportunity that these business gathers present.

Never underestimate just how much work can be done in a simple high pressure 15m meeting at a convention like E3. I have heard of entire deals being proposed and negotiated at E3 between publishers and studios that never even met before. Sure, the contracts are signed months later, but the deals wouldn't have occurred without both being at the show.

When I see people talking about all the ways that money could be spent better, it is clear to me few of them have ever been on the business side of something like E3. The money isn't just paying for the show presence. Saving the money isn't just saving some marketing expense. Not being at E3 is also an opportunity cost. You miss the opportunity to meet with your peers across the industry, get to know each other, build lasting relationships, and potentially create and release amazing new games together.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,000
Just being cheeky, considering the game didnt have an ending and some worlds were locked out it felt a bit cheap like they were still working on it so they could push a sequel out quicker
Literally they acknowledged they were cutting bosses, enemies and gameplay ideas from the PS4 game because they realized they are doing the sequel instead, during the first game and they are now keeping all of them for the sequel. That is why I said the core of the game exists, gameplay style, level design, story, settings and everything. The engien could be upgraded so easily on PS5 to reach CGI quality so it gonna be faster to develop this game compared to to make an entire enw game from scratch which was the current PS4 game that took so long.
Rendez-vous during PS Meeting. ;)
 

D3M0N666

Member
Jan 18, 2019
74
Literally they acknowledged they were cutting bosses, enemies and gameplay ideas from the PS4 game because they realized they are doing the sequel instead, during the first game and they are now keeping all of them for the sequel. That is why I said the core of the game exists, gameplay style, level design, story, settings and everything. The engien could be upgraded so easily on PS5 to reach CGI quality so it gonna be faster to develop this game compared to to make an entire enw game from scratch which was the current PS4 game that took so long.
Rendez-vous during PS Meeting. ;)
Ahhh interesting, i was let down it was not what I wanted from a god of war game... couldnt play through a second time...
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,429
So if Xbox is more powerful but PlayStation has the only next gen exclusive... What a waste.

Curious though if we get a more Powerful Xbox but a PS5 full of tricks.
Faster memory, ReRam, 3D Audio acceleration..

RT is a toss up.

Definitely don't want to be buying A first party Scarlett game that runs on a Xbox One, jaguar, 1.3tf, 5400rpm HDD.

When I bought the 360 I bought it for Dead Rising
Because that game could never run on a PS2.

This is what I want from next gen.
 

saintjules

Member
Dec 20, 2019
299
Hmm, God of War for PS4 was revealed at E3 2016 and was out in April of 2018.
I think it was because there was a bit of pressure to show something for E3 then. I remember watching the Raising Kratos film Sony put up. They were by no means completed with the game by then. There was a delay after E3, but I can't remember exactly when.
 

Proven

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,894
So if Xbox is more powerful but PlayStation has the only next gen exclusive... What a waste.

Curious though if we get a more Powerful Xbox but a PS5 full of tricks.
Faster memory, ReRam, 3D Audio acceleration..

RT is a toss up.

Definitely don't want to be buying A first party Scarlett game that runs on a Xbox One, jaguar, 1.3tf, 5400rpm HDD.

When I bought the 360 I bought it for Dead Rising
Because that game could never run on a PS2.

This is what I want from next gen.
At most we see a couple games that are not built for the Series X, it’s really not that big of a deal lol.

Third party games always do this and I never remember people complaining that the third party games were being held back. I wonder why this case is so different.
 

Stripper13

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,293
I love all the people baking at the rumored $30m and $60m price tags for E3.

Even back when I did reporting on E3 and TGS, we would regularly hear numbers like $20m to $30m for booths. This was back around 2006.

To understand how those numbers are a thing, you need to understand what goes into a show like E3 for a studio or publisher.

Aside from the fees for floor staff, booth space, etc... You also have to pay for space and rooms in the basement where all the real business meetings around E3 are held.

Beyond this, for a company like Microsoft or Sony, you have to pay dozens of full time and contract employees for easily 3-5 months to work on your show presence. This includes planning, design, manufacturing, and setup of every single little thing you see on the show floor. Most of it is custom designed and built for each individual show. All of stations people line up to play at are built to extreme levels of tolerance to be able to stand up to whatever abuse convention goers throw at them. This is not cheap.

Making a simple flat hanging sign and getting it hung on the show floor can easily cost $15,000. Now imaging making one that is circular, multi-layered, covered on lights or LED displays, and making sure it is solid enough, safe enough, and sturdy enough to get hung at the show. Then getting it raised up.

In addition to flying out, feeding, and housing all your employees and contractors you also need to coordinate meetings and events with tons of other studios and publishing houses. This isn't just a couple days to party and show off games. E3 is a business gathering. Outside of TGS business days, E3 is pretty much the only place where so many studios send top talent and you can arrange group meetings in private without risk of exposure. Part of what you are paying for is the opportunity that these business gathers present.

Never underestimate just how much work can be done in a simple high pressure 15m meeting at a convention like E3. I have heard of entire deals being proposed and negotiated at E3 between publishers and studios that never even met before. Sure, the contracts are signed months later, but the deals wouldn't have occurred without both being at the show.

When I see people talking about all the ways that money could be spent better, it is clear to me few of them have ever been on the business side of something like E3. The money isn't just paying for the show presence. Saving the money isn't just saving some marketing expense. Not being at E3 is also an opportunity cost. You miss the opportunity to meet with your peers across the industry, get to know each other, build lasting relationships, and potentially create and release amazing new games together.
I think you're overstating the importance of E3 (or any trade event) in the networking and business side of things. Maybe it was more important back in 2006, when a personal presence was more important and E3 was more unique than it is today.
In 2020, deals will continue to be made whether studios and publishers attend or not. The "opportunity cost" is unlikely to be a significant factor for players like MS, Sony or the major AAA publishers - because those relationships are already in place.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
2,429
I think you're overstating the importance of E3 (or any trade event) in the networking and business side of things. Maybe it was more important back in 2006, when a personal presence was more important and E3 was more unique than it is today.
In 2020, deals will continue to be made whether studios and publishers attend or not. The "opportunity cost" is unlikely to be a significant factor for players like MS, Sony of the major AAA publishers - because those relationships are already in place.
On the Japanese business side of things personal presence is as vital as ever.

It's rooted in the culture.
 

Burrman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,506
One thing's for sure about next-gen; Digital Foundry going to be working overtime.
I know he said he’s not looking forward to all these consoles. But wouldn’t that be good news for them? More work is usually good for business. They can pick and choose what people are interested in most and focus on that. But then again I don’t know how their business works.
 
Jan 21, 2019
1,130
One thing's for sure about next-gen; Digital Foundry going to be working overtime.
But it's probably going to be so much more interesting and fun considering a billion new things to explore. I think John said that he feels done with this gen and can't wait for the magic to come instead of talking about the same of screen space reflections and bla bla bla.
 

supraman1120

Member
Jun 7, 2018
72
I understand this forum has more playstation fans than Xbox. Im okay with that. I'm not okay with the thought that Xbox fans have to walk on eggshells so they don't trigger people sensitivities on which pieces of plastic will be stronger.
It is pretty weird, isn't it?

Quite strange that people declare allegiance to a multinational conglomerate and entrench themselves so deeply with a company that is doing nothing more than trying to extract money from them. The whole console warrior stuff is cultish, and I'll never understand it. It is okay to like and support more than a single company... as a matter of fact, it is healthier for the industry for everyone to support everything. Nothing happens in a vacuum, and it is okay to say that MS made a mistake, just as it is okay to say that Sony/Nintendo made a mistake.

I'll never understand those who feverishly defend a specific company on here.
 

supraman1120

Member
Jun 7, 2018
72
I love all the people baking at the rumored $30m and $60m price tags for E3.

Even back when I did reporting on E3 and TGS, we would regularly hear numbers like $20m to $30m for booths. This was back around 2006.

To understand how those numbers are a thing, you need to understand what goes into a show like E3 for a studio or publisher.

Aside from the fees for floor staff, booth space, etc... You also have to pay for space and rooms in the basement where all the real business meetings around E3 are held.

Beyond this, for a company like Microsoft or Sony, you have to pay dozens of full time and contract employees for easily 3-5 months to work on your show presence. This includes planning, design, manufacturing, and setup of every single little thing you see on the show floor. Most of it is custom designed and built for each individual show. All of stations people line up to play at are built to extreme levels of tolerance to be able to stand up to whatever abuse convention goers throw at them. This is not cheap.

Making a simple flat hanging sign and getting it hung on the show floor can easily cost $15,000. Now imaging making one that is circular, multi-layered, covered on lights or LED displays, and making sure it is solid enough, safe enough, and sturdy enough to get hung at the show. Then getting it raised up.

In addition to flying out, feeding, and housing all your employees and contractors you also need to coordinate meetings and events with tons of other studios and publishing houses. This isn't just a couple days to party and show off games. E3 is a business gathering. Outside of TGS business days, E3 is pretty much the only place where so many studios send top talent and you can arrange group meetings in private without risk of exposure. Part of what you are paying for is the opportunity that these business gathers present.

Never underestimate just how much work can be done in a simple high pressure 15m meeting at a convention like E3. I have heard of entire deals being proposed and negotiated at E3 between publishers and studios that never even met before. Sure, the contracts are signed months later, but the deals wouldn't have occurred without both being at the show.

When I see people talking about all the ways that money could be spent better, it is clear to me few of them have ever been on the business side of something like E3. The money isn't just paying for the show presence. Saving the money isn't just saving some marketing expense. Not being at E3 is also an opportunity cost. You miss the opportunity to meet with your peers across the industry, get to know each other, build lasting relationships, and potentially create and release amazing new games together.
I can tell you from working experience in tech that just sponsoring a major industry conference (take AWS re:Invent for example), even at the lowest tiers, is a multi-million dollar proposition. My employer hosts a 2-day yearly conference in NYC for just around 2k attendees and it is a 4MM expense. People here have very very little understanding of corporate budgeting, particularly for companies with revenues beginning with a B.

Best to ignore those here who make bold claims and criticisms around marketing spend, R&D spend, etc, as it is very very rarely rooted in reality.
 

supraman1120

Member
Jun 7, 2018
72
60 million dollars for tons of press and free marketing isn’t too much. I’m sure some commercials and marketing campaigns cost way more and E3 is probably some of the best advertising you can get.
A spend to get press is not free... even if the press is organically attributed to the marketing spend. Attribution is generally a marketing KPI.
 
Oct 27, 2017
128
When I see people talking about all the ways that money could be spent better, it is clear to me few of them have ever been on the business side of something like E3. The money isn't just paying for the show presence. Saving the money isn't just saving some marketing expense. Not being at E3 is also an opportunity cost. You miss the opportunity to meet with your peers across the industry, get to know each other, build lasting relationships, and potentially create and release amazing new games together.
I can tell you from working experience in tech that just sponsoring a major industry conference (take AWS re:Invent for example), even at the lowest tiers, is a multi-million dollar proposition. My employer hosts a 2-day yearly conference in NYC for just around 2k attendees and it is a 4MM expense. People here have very very little understanding of corporate budgeting, particularly for companies with revenues beginning with a B.

Best to ignore those here who make bold claims and criticisms around marketing spend, R&D spend, etc, as it is very very rarely rooted in reality.
Pros. But, I've seen Sony position in my workplace as well. We would long invest huge sums to be at a major show in our market. Goes back decades. But increasingly we see our primary demo shift to alternate shows. We see greater ROI when participating in other shows at lower spend. There's pressure then within the organization to spend where the results are now versus following tradition.

Sony's decision suggests to me that in recent years their KPI's were general public engagement driven instead of personal corporate networking driven for E3. And they had seen a gradual decline in those areas until they decided to make a change. I doubt cost played any role in it outside of the context of ROI. This might also reflect their mature position in the market. That's not arrogance. It is wise to dictate more favorable networking avenues such as GDC or TGS or 1st party events when you have a dominant position. Ryan seems to be making clear cut choices here to go in another direction at many levels. He won a debate somewhere along the line and they are committing to that. Hopefully that works for him.

Personally, I'm glad. I find tradeshows to be all so fake and cringey. It's easy for a company like Sony to get the word out. Heck, I wish they'd also get rid of the "suit pretending he's not a suit by wearing jeans on stage" presentation thing entirely. I think few people care about that. Product sells. Quality sells. Shut up and show me a video, do a Q&A and stop pretending you are actually charismatic like Steve Jobs.
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
858
Seattle
Third party games always do this and I never remember people complaining that the third party games were being held back. I wonder why this case is so different.
You clearly have a very selective memory. From 2014 we have articles and threads like...

Stop it! Cross-gen games are holding the industry back.
The cross-gen conundrum.
Seriously? FUCK cross-gen games! (thread at the old pace, so I won’t be linking)

This isn’t some new slight aimed at a specific manufacturer, it has been a source of frustration since the whole concept was conceived. It’s a lament expressed by gamers and developers alike that only makes sense to the bean counters, and even then the beans often turn out to be illusory.
 

Proven

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,894
You clearly have a very selective memory. From 2014 we have articles and threads like...

Stop it! Cross-gen games are holding the industry back.
The cross-gen conundrum.
Seriously? FUCK cross-gen games! (thread at the old pace, so I won’t be linking)

This isn’t some new slight aimed at a specific manufacturer, it has been a source of frustration since the whole concept was conceived. It’s a lament expressed by gamers and developers alike that only makes sense to the bean counters, and even then the beans often turn out to be illusory.
I think transitioning to a new platform is difficult and devs would lose a lot of money if they just stopped supporting older platforms as soon as the new ones came out. They have to wait a year or so until the majority has moved on to the new consoles. It sucks but I understand why they do it.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,000
I think transitioning to a new platform is difficult and devs would lose a lot of money if they just stopped supporting older platforms as soon as the new ones came out. They have to wait a year or so until the majority has moved on to the new consoles. It sucks but I understand why they do it.
In a fincial and marketing way yeah, but not in hardware or develoment era. Alld evs are waiting for enxt-gen to flew their muscles just they can't risk doing next-gen only games for the time being especially third parties and indies and it will be very hard to miss the current install base of current-gen compared to the minuscule one happeing this year. the only who are prepared to take the roll are first party only devs but they know if they invest more in their games, their games can sell consoles so more games will be sold in the future.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,389
Years of speculation and debate. Years of trawling through the darkest corners of the interwebs for the smallest morsel of information that might possibly maybe have a bit of truth to it. All the emotional highs and lows... all of that is about to come to a head with the PS5 reveal event. Everyday is going to be like waking up on Christmas morning to quickly load up Era and hope that news of the event has been announced. Many days will no doubt be full of disappointment, but I eagerly await that day when the news is real.

BRING ON THE RERAM!!! :)
 

natestellar

Member
Sep 16, 2018
396
Was listening to KF Podcast earlier and Miller said "I feel you're not getting a February event, I think that's too early" Also, went on to talk a little bit about their strategy with Wired articles and mentioned May as an opportune time for them to throw their big event.

He could obviously be speculating but considering he had Shu over at his house couple of days back, I wonder if there's any substance behind it.
 

Elfstruck

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
919
Was listening to KF Podcast earlier and Miller said "I feel you're not getting a February event, I think that's too early" Also, went on to talk a little bit about their strategy with Wired articles and mentioned May as an opportune time for them to throw their big event.

He could obviously be speculating but considering he had Shu over at his house couple of days back, I wonder if there's any substance behind it.
Shu ain't gonna tell Greg anything lol
 

mullah88

Member
Oct 28, 2017
123
Like I said, from time of reveal, they’ll have 6 months to launch....if they have there blow out in February, I guess I’ll eat some crow
 

kungfuian

Member
Jan 24, 2018
167
Was listening to KF Podcast earlier and Miller said "I feel you're not getting a February event, I think that's too early" Also, went on to talk a little bit about their strategy with Wired articles and mentioned May as an opportune time for them to throw their big event.

He could obviously be speculating but considering he had Shu over at his house couple of days back, I wonder if there's any substance behind it.
So keep pressing F5 til May, slowing going insane, or stop reading this crap and actually play some games or something. I swear if I die of some rare form of news deprivation blue balls I'm gonna haunt Jim Ryan!
 
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Stripper13

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,293
So keep pressing F5 til May, slowing going insane, or stop reading this crap and actually play some games or something. If swear if I die of some rare form of news deprivation blue balls I'm gonna haunt Jim Ryan!
I think between Klee, Klepek and other chatter around a Feb event - it's fairly safe to assume that Sony are going to be showing something next month. Either that or everyone has got it wrong and we can banish the insiders?
 
Feb 10, 2018
16,235
It is pretty weird, isn't it?

Quite strange that people declare allegiance to a multinational conglomerate and entrench themselves so deeply with a company that is doing nothing more than trying to extract money from them. The whole console warrior stuff is cultish, and I'll never understand it. It is okay to like and support more than a single company... as a matter of fact, it is healthier for the industry for everyone to support everything. Nothing happens in a vacuum, and it is okay to say that MS made a mistake, just as it is okay to say that Sony/Nintendo made a mistake.

I'll never understand those who feverishly defend a specific company on here.
I put it down to childhood/nostalgic experiences, people have formed deep relationships with certain brands.

It is amusing though, because these companies and the people who work for them are very Similar.
 

KOHIPEET

Member
Oct 29, 2017
616
Was listening to KF Podcast earlier and Miller said "I feel you're not getting a February event, I think that's too early" Also, went on to talk a little bit about their strategy with Wired articles and mentioned May as an opportune time for them to throw their big event.

He could obviously be speculating but considering he had Shu over at his house couple of days back, I wonder if there's any substance behind it.
So perhaps another article in Feb with a few details plus a fix date for their event. Then a full reveal around May/June, after TLOU2 is out the gate.
The upside to this of course is that devs will have more time to polish what they want to show and that we won't actually have to wait that much till release.
 

Saint-14

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,335
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