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PS5 and Xbox Series speculation launch thread |OT9| - For flops sake!

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2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,796
But if a game is over 50 gigs wouldnt that disc only work on XSEX. So early cross gen games would have to be 50 gigs or less on dual layer, have a disc for each machine, or X1 version as download only? Anymore than 50 and the disc wouldnt read on X1 right?
Only the original One lacks a uhd player. Think they'd be fine not supporting it.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,716
My hot-take is that Microsoft has a strategy that is divergent from the traditional "console generations" strategy that Sony has. They have mentioned previously that they are thinking in terms of generation-less, they are now promoting cross-gen titles for their latest hardware etc.

I feel that they have decided that it makes more sense to not compete with Sony head-to-head and instead change the rules of the game.

If Microsoft can make enough strides towards this more PC-centric forward-scaling + back-compatibility model alongside subs/streaming, then they will have a different playing field - one which is more familiar to them and one in which they hold several advantages over the traditional generational mindset of Sony.

I think it's genius from a business perspective and in many ways it's more pro-consumer as new experiences will be available to more consumers on a variety of hardware.

I personally think that Sony have this one chance to adapt (from the success of the PS4) and to take on-board the shifting eco-system (that Microsoft are driving) or they'll basically be irrelevant in 6 years time.

I think Sony know that they could be on the cusp of their last hurrah so the messaging and service offering has to be perfect. Any mis-step and their slide into irrelevance will be all but confirmed.

~*And I'm a huge PlayStation and PlayStation IP fan*~

I think there's enough hints from various industry folks that streaming will take off (and I see it happening faster than people think it will) and as such the dominance of local hardware will wane - which would be an existential threat to PlayStation, but wouldn't bother Microsoft who already have a different mental model of how to operate in a stream/cloud-centric world.

Will be interesting to see if the generations model will survive next go around.
I don’t disagree that MS are looking for a different playing field.. but I do disagree that it’s a huge advantage for them. They still don’t have streaming released and IMO the generation-less approach is one gen too early. Next gen with a solid CPU as a baseline that could work and maybe Sony will mirror that, but MS will have to leave xb1 behind sooner rather than later - but likely will have a kind of generationless ‘lite’ with xsx + Lockhart + PC to test the waters
 

shyhh

Member
Jan 7, 2020
20
My current mindset.

Microsoft felt they had the strongest box so they have announced early to allow the longest time for the message to spread, engaging the most possible potential customers. They can drop feed info throughout the year.

If sony dont talk specs in first half 2020 they have the weaker box and are trying to control the spread of this info to avoid the negative spreading to a larger audience. Ultimately causing doubt over ms plan and not letting it be clearly inked they have the weaker box. They will let the system talk with game demos closer to launch.

That's my current thought process lol.
Sony would hold out on specs until the point when they are ready to discuss the retail price of PS5.
 

Clowns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,314
But if a game is over 50 gigs wouldnt that disc only work on XSEX. So early cross gen games would have to be 50 gigs or less on dual layer, have a disc for each machine, or X1 version as download only? Anymore than 50 and the disc wouldnt read on X1 right?
Multi disc games are a thing now. Could be a suitable workaround.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,987
Multi disc games are a thing now. Could be a suitable workaround.
Or just the simplest solution release only current-gen version and offer an update through network for various cross-gen games on next-gen consoles withou forcing custoemrs to buy the game twice or making such fuss about discs, exactly like how mid-gen handles things, until we finally ditch cross-gen next year and start targeting next-gen formats and games and platforms only.
 

Md Ray

Member
Oct 29, 2017
473
Chennai, India
Hello, been lurking this thread for the last couple of OTs, figured it was time to create an account to keep on top of things. Looking forward to what the next year or so brings, and being quietly hopeful that 343 will knock it out the park for Halo: Infinite.
Welcome aboard :)
I just want to see some recent footage/interviews with Cerny and his smooth, methodical voice.
Haha, same...

Not recent (uploaded in June 2013) but this is always interesting to watch and listen to the journey of how PS4 came about. Hope we get something similar for PS5 as well.
 

DrDeckard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,090
Well for x1x they said most powerful console made before Sony even reveals the pro. So there is that. But we shall wait and see what happens after the feb meeting
Did they? I didn't know that. I wonder how they knew it was more powerful than the ps4 pro before the PS4 pro was announced. Do you havea link?

my current thought process:

MS are behind on market share and I’m guessing are being hit by heavier YoY hardware sales drops than Sony. So they have less to lose by dropping XSX concrete info early, whereas Sony may want to eke out a little more from PS4 before being too explicit on PS5.

I do still think two events/streams makes sense. One early (Feb/mar) to outline the tech and show examples of possibilities - starts to get people more excited for it. Basically a mirror of the Feb 2013 event. Then a later event closer to launch with games specifics, third party partner stuff, price and launch windoe. This could be September (post summer) but I think if MS announced price etc at E3, So y won’t want to leave them with the only preorderabke real box for months - so my guess would be June and within 1-2 weeks of MS show with invites going out any time the week if E3 to keep PlayStation in mind and likely have PS mentioned in any Xbox press coverage (Dreamcast style spoiler tactics)
I think you're onto something here. I can see this on both points.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,308
You clearly have a very selective memory. From 2014 we have articles and threads like...

Stop it! Cross-gen games are holding the industry back.
The cross-gen conundrum.
Seriously? FUCK cross-gen games! (thread at the old pace, so I won’t be linking)

This isn’t some new slight aimed at a specific manufacturer, it has been a source of frustration since the whole concept was conceived. It’s a lament expressed by gamers and developers alike that only makes sense to the bean counters, and even then the beans often turn out to be illusory.
People really hated that Minecraft, Battlefield 4 and GTAV came to the current gen. they make absolutely no sense.

Gamers are gonna really hate playing Halo Infinte co-op and their little bro gets his own TV. They'll hate playing firefight with their friends on PC or those that cant get Series X right away. None of this makes any sense.

Truth is, it makes plenty of sense to bring some games forward into the next gen. It many cases, a game doesn't need to be designed from the ground up for the new hardware in order to offer compelling gameplay and impressive visual enhancements. Due to the reality of the learning process, there are plenty of examples of launch games developed exclusively for new hardware that lack the polish and compelling gameplay of the crossgen titles they are up against. It will be no different for the launch of PS5 and XSX. It doesn't take a bean counter to see there's value in doing this.

Even years into next-gen, there will be game designs that still have massive appeal despite being possible on previous generation hardware.
 
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Alandring

Member
Feb 2, 2018
1,682
Switzerland
I disagree with that. I fully expect a generation of Xbox console(s) beyond Scarlett.
-

There's no doubt in my mind Microsoft will have an equivalent Xbox to compete with PS6, around 2027.
We'll see. Every Microsoft game is now available on PC. Some Microsoft games are available on PlayStation 4 (Minecraft, Minecraft Dungeons) and on Nintendo Switch (Cuphead, Ori). Every Microsoft game will be available everywhere soon, with xCloud.

I think the next step for Xbox Game Pass is to be available everywhere, which also means on PlayStation and on Nintendo consoles. It will take time (the Game Pass is officially available on PC only since this year), but I'm pretty sure it will happen.
 

zid99825

Member
Mar 29, 2019
4
We'll see. Every Microsoft game is now available on PC. Some Microsoft games are available on PlayStation 4 (Minecraft, Minecraft Dungeons) and on Nintendo Switch (Cuphead, Ori). Every Microsoft game will be available everywhere soon, with xCloud.

I think the next step for Xbox Game Pass is to be available everywhere, which also means on PlayStation and on Nintendo consoles. It will take time (the Game Pass is officially available on PC only since this year), but I'm pretty sure it will happen.
Sony won't allow MS to afford a game store like xCloud on PlayStation
 

KeRaSh

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,840
At most we see a couple games that are not built for the Series X, it’s really not that big of a deal lol.

Third party games always do this and I never remember people complaining that the third party games were being held back. I wonder why this case is so different.
You clearly have a very selective memory. From 2014 we have articles and threads like...

Stop it! Cross-gen games are holding the industry back.
The cross-gen conundrum.
Seriously? FUCK cross-gen games! (thread at the old pace, so I won’t be linking)

This isn’t some new slight aimed at a specific manufacturer, it has been a source of frustration since the whole concept was conceived. It’s a lament expressed by gamers and developers alike that only makes sense to the bean counters, and even then the beans often turn out to be illusory.
People keep hammering on about easy scalability but that's just not always the case.
Just look at Destiny as an example. They dropped PS360 support when the Rise of Iron expansion came out because they literally couldn't add anything new to the game without removing content in order to keep supporting the older gen consoles.
There were also limitations to things like the vault space and the amount of tabs in the menu that held back the PS4 and XB1 versions of the game.

Source

Barrett: In order to add more stuff, we would have to remove stuff from the game to still support legacy content. So it’s really about the amount of stuff in the game. We’re always looking to add new features and new graphical improvements.
Just the fact that we’re adding new stuff... it’s basically like we’re all full up. Anything that’s additive at this point, something has to go. Big stuff. So [ditching last-gen] allows us to make the bucket bigger. And there are new bells and whistles and fun features we can do. In the past we did have some differences between [platforms]. We tried to keep those very limited because we want to make sure wherever you’re playing Destiny, if we’re going to support a platform, we want it to feel like Destiny. We don’t want to carve it like, ‘oh there’s only one subclass,’ or whatever it is. All the bones have to be there. We did have to make some compromises of like vault space or tabs or things like that in the past to make sure it’d perform and be a good experience.
A dream scenario would be that all exclusives will be built for next gen hardware from the ground up while legacy consoles can play those games via xCloud.
Technically they would still support last gen machines while not having to hold anything back.
 
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thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,432
I don't know why users are trying to convince themselves that commitment to cross gen development is no big deal. You can't just scale everything without decisions that will effect the grand scope.


Imagine designing a next generation game with the intention to support a Jaguar CPU, 1.3 GCN TF, and DDR3 in 2020.


PlayStation's onus should be to demonstrate software built from the ground up on the foundation of the SSD and Zen processor - we should have clear and present indications of what the virtues of the hardware are.
 
I don't know why users are trying to convince themselves that cross gen development is not going to impact scope / fidelity of next generation games. You can't just scale everything without decisions that will effect the grand scope.


Imagine designing a next generation game with the intention to support a Jaguar CPU, 1.3 GCN TF, and DDR3 in 2020.


PlayStation's onus should be to demonstrate software built from the ground up on the foundation of the SSD and Zen processor - we should have clear and present indications of what the virtues of the hardware are.
because it will not impact in the longer run.
1-2 years of cross gen, basically games that already started being developed on Xbox One and then that is basically it. MS already have games being made on next gen hardware that we most likely will start seeing late 2021 or so.

besides, this is for first party games. It is not like MS is dictating everybody to do cross gen for two years.

I don’t see how this is being taken as we never will see MS having games being made with only next gen in mind.

imagine developing this powerful console and don’t take advantage of it. Who does this?
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,978
St Kitts
I think transitioning to a new platform is difficult and devs would lose a lot of money if they just stopped supporting older platforms as soon as the new ones came out. They have to wait a year or so until the majority has moved on to the new consoles. It sucks but I understand why they do it.
Gonna just try and help put this cross-gen thing to rest with you once and for all...

Yes cross-gen happens, but not from a first-party standpoint. Think of it, how many games did sony and even MS release in 2014 that were cross-gen? Most of the cross-gen spillover that happened in 2013 were games that released that year. And even then with sony, it didn't apply to all of them (GT6).

Yes, we expect the third parties to release most of their game as cross-gen titles, but that too only usually happens in the first year too. But we expect first party to have enough money to not need the shared userbase of both gens and to make stand out exclusive titles that showcase the benefits of the next-gen hardware.

The reason it's such a big deal now, and that people here and in the media are talking about it, is simple; MS has outright come out and said that for the first 2 years all their first-party output will be cross-gen. This means that the first true SeX exclusive you see from MS comes out around 2023. Third-party devs usually even stop making cross-gen titles by 2021.

What's even really sad here is the reason MS is actually doing this. But I m not going to get into that. I'll say this much though, MS also has Xcloud. If that ends up being all its touted out to be, then they shouldn't even need to have any of this ross gen nonsense as people an still play (stream) full-blown SeX exclusives on their XB1s.
 

KeRaSh

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,840
Welcome aboard :)

Haha, same...

Not recent (uploaded in June 2013) but this is always interesting to watch and listen to the journey of how PS4 came about. Hope we get something similar for PS5 as well.
I remember that video. Super interesting. I could listen to stories like that for hours!
Hopefully Cerny will be at the PS Meeting to tell us about the PS5. Such a cool guy.
 

domthybomb

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,758
We'll see. Every Microsoft game is now available on PC. Some Microsoft games are available on PlayStation 4 (Minecraft, Minecraft Dungeons) and on Nintendo Switch (Cuphead, Ori). Every Microsoft game will be available everywhere soon, with xCloud.

I think the next step for Xbox Game Pass is to be available everywhere, which also means on PlayStation and on Nintendo consoles. It will take time (the Game Pass is officially available on PC only since this year), but I'm pretty sure it will happen.
I highly doubt gamepass in its current iteration and xCloud would ever see the light of day on a Nintendo or Sony platform. The closest thing would be a stripped down version that only offers Microsoft's games. Similar to EA Access. Would also require a separate subscription model that had to be bought on Nintendo's or Playstation's platform.
 

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
736
Could be a possibility that Sony is this quiet cause they want to go all out and crush the opposition.

When the first rumors appeared that the current gen consoles will implement DRM etc. noone at Sony denied anything. They did go all out at E3 though.

Apart from that. Do we really know more about the XSX than from the Playstation? Apart from the box itself?
 

Webbo

Member
Nov 27, 2017
147
Welcome aboard :)

Haha, same...

Not recent (uploaded in June 2013) but this is always interesting to watch and listen to the journey of how PS4 came about. Hope we get something similar for PS5 as well.
Such an interesting listen, i'll never pass up the opportunity to listen to a presentation by Mark Cerny.

Can't wait for his PS5 reveal presentation.
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,978
St Kitts
We'll see. Every Microsoft game is now available on PC. Some Microsoft games are available on PlayStation 4 (Minecraft, Minecraft Dungeons) and on Nintendo Switch (Cuphead, Ori). Every Microsoft game will be available everywhere soon, with xCloud.

I think the next step for Xbox Game Pass is to be available everywhere, which also means on PlayStation and on Nintendo consoles. It will take time (the Game Pass is officially available on PC only since this year), but I'm pretty sure it will happen.
So you believe sony would allow you to install an app on PlayStation that would mean you don't have to buy games anymore? Line MS pockets and simultaneously fast track themselves into irrelevance?

Ok. Let's see how that works.
 

Mr_Nothin

Member
Oct 29, 2017
113
because it will not impact in the longer run.
1-2 years of cross gen, basically games that already started being developed on Xbox One and then that is basically it. MS already have games being made on next gen hardware that we most likely will start seeing late 2021 or so.

besides, this is for first party games. It is not like MS is dictating everybody to do cross gen for two years.

I don’t see how this is being taken as we never will see MS having games being made with only next gen in mind.

imagine developing this powerful console and don’t take advantage of it. Who does this?
Waiting up to 3 years to see "what next gen is really about" isnt making me want to buy a XSX...
 

Abominuz

Member
Oct 29, 2017
936
Netherlands
Waiting up to 3 years to see "what next gen is really about" isnt making me want to buy a XSX...
This is why i am waiting for both to release their roadmaps and what they are planning. I buy every console every generation, but not always right away.
If the jump from X to SX is not that big i will keep my X and wait for one to two years before i buy it. This gen i bought a PS4 first because MS was very confusing in their messaging with the One and the and the games in my opinion where not that great. But as soon as they had a good library of games and of course gamepass and the upgraded console i bought the X.
 
Waiting up to 3 years to see "what next gen is really about" isnt making me want to buy a XSX...
luckily, you have options. If you absolutely need the next gen fix on release, then perhaps Sony is your go to console.

but otoh, games can still be great even if they are not coded to 100% on a next gen machine. I mean, there has been lots of great games this generation and none of them offered the possibilities of what next gen can offer.

but yeah, your comment does not remove the fact that cross gen is a transition period.
For example, Halo infinite will be the Xbox One/S/X swan song but perhaps ray traced and what not on XSX. so perhaps not a 100% next gen game but it can still end up being awesome.
 

Alandring

Member
Feb 2, 2018
1,682
Switzerland
Sony won't allow MS to afford a game store like xCloud on PlayStation
I don't think xCloud will be available on PlayStation. But I think in the future, Microsoft first party games will launch on PlayStation and will be available with Game Pass.

I highly doubt gamepass in its current iteration and xCloud would ever see the light of day on a Nintendo or Sony platform. The closest thing would be a stripped down version that only offers Microsoft's games. Similar to EA Access. Would also require a separate subscription model that had to be bought on Nintendo's or Playstation's platform.
Absolutely. Game Pass PC and Game Pass Xbox are currently two different subscriptions, with different games on each. I think the same will be true for Game Pass PlayStation and Game Pass Nintendo.

Sony has allowed Electronic Arts to launch EA Access on PlayStation, I don't see why they wouldn't let Microsoft do the same with Game Pass.

So you believe sony would allow you to install an app on PlayStation that would mean you don't have to buy games anymore? Line MS pockets and simultaneously fast track themselves into irrelevance?

Ok. Let's see how that works.
Yes, absolutely. Because Sony will take 30% of the price of this subscription and also 30% on each MTX/DLC for those games. Game Pass would also only include a small part of the content available on PlayStation.
 

Florin4k4

Member
Mar 18, 2019
412
From a technical standpoint, Would it be possible to play Xbox games on ps through xcloud? (If ms wanted to do it obviously).
Or would the games have to be heavily patched compared to them running on an Xbox?
 

Detective

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,886
Gonna have to wait and see the games before making any judgment. But as of now, I like Sony’s approach better.
 

Dimajjio

Member
Oct 13, 2019
507
It's so interesting watching back that presentation from 2013. From the way Mark Cerny speaks, if you extrapolate it to where we are now, I can fully imagine we'd be getting HBM2 memory in the PS5.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,342
From a technical standpoint, Would it be possible to play Xbox games on ps through xcloud? (If ms wanted to do it obviously).
Or would the games have to be heavily patched compared to them running on an Xbox?
Of course it would be possible. Xcloud is a streaming service, they have PS4 Devkits, they can port a version of their client over if they wanted to and if Sony would allow it.
 

Axel Stone

Member
Jan 10, 2020
83
I get the cross gen concerns, I share them. I would love to see new and unique experiences on the new consoles which leverage the new tech. However, if it really is only going to be for a year after launch, then I don’t know that I’m hugely bothered about it. Currently, I can count the number of truly great launch games on the fingers of one hand, if this gen causes me to have to use use my thumb as well, that’s about as much as I could ever hope to expect. Maybe things will be different this gen, people have made good arguments for why that could be the case this time around, but that doesn’t strike me as overwhelmingly likely.
 

Mr_Nothin

Member
Oct 29, 2017
113
luckily, you have options. If you absolutely need the next gen fix on release, then perhaps Sony is your go to console.

but otoh, games can still be great even if they are not coded to 100% on a next gen machine. I mean, there has been lots of great games this generation and none of them offered the possibilities of what next gen can offer.

but yeah, your comment does not remove the fact that cross gen is a transition period.
For example, Halo infinite will be the Xbox One/S/X swan song but perhaps ray traced and what not on XSX. so perhaps not a 100% next gen game but it can still end up being awesome.
Exactly why I'm a lot more excited for PS5. I want those exclusives that take full advantage of next-gen hardware. I have a PC for w/e Microsoft puts out....which i guess feeds into their ecosystem and plan but I'm way more excited about next-gen exclusives.

I'm not about to shell out $500 on a system for "up-ports". Thats almost as crazy as buying an 8k TV right now when there's no real 8k content.
 

L33

Member
Dec 20, 2019
43
It's so interesting watching back that presentation from 2013. From the way Mark Cerny speaks, if you extrapolate it to where we are now, I can fully imagine we'd be getting HBM2 memory in the PS5.
Don't you dare get our hopes up!.......commence 50+ pages of reading into Cernys use of words and body language 6 years ago to determine PS5 specs 🤣
 

Gamer17

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,302
At this point everyone would agree that if Sony reveals a big Navi (above 50 cu)as ps5 we will all be surprised ? Correct?
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,308
I don't know why users are trying to convince themselves that commitment to cross gen development is no big deal. You can't just scale everything without decisions that will effect the grand scope.


Imagine designing a next generation game with the intention to support a Jaguar CPU, 1.3 GCN TF, and DDR3 in 2020.


PlayStation's onus should be to demonstrate software built from the ground up on the foundation of the SSD and Zen processor - we should have clear and present indications of what the virtues of the hardware are.
Its not that people think that cross gen development is no big deal. People realize that one year of cross gen while new gen exclusives get extra time in the kitchen isn't going to hurt anything.

It's weird to see people acting like MS is never going to show off the hardware's virtue, and that next gen exclusives during the launch window are going to blow everything else out of the water.

Not only that, but the last round of old gen games have produced some timeless classics. Games like GTAV and the Last Of Us deserved to be brought forward. If a publisher believes they have some late-gen gems, why not enhance them for the new gen as well? If they can do it day-and-date with cross play, that's even better.

Waiting up to 3 years to see "what next gen is really about" isnt making me want to buy a XSX...
I love how the narrative has slowly crept to 3 years, up from the context of the original comment that suggests exclusives by the end of the first year of the XSX release.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
14,544

Mr_Nothin

Member
Oct 29, 2017
113
Its not that people think that cross gen development is no big deal. People realize that one year of cross gen while new gen exclusives get extra time in the kitchen isn't going to hurt anything.

Not only that, but the last round of old gen games have produced some timeless classics. Games like GTAV and the Last Of Us deserved to be brought forward. If a publisher behooves believes they have some late-gen gems, why not enhance them for the new gen as well.
I think everyone fully expects and wants the bolded to happen.....
Yes, give us up-ports and bring late gen games onto the new systems with enhancements but don't leave out next-gen exclusives and force teams to develop for 7 year old hardware when designing a next-gen game.
 
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