PS5 and Xbox Series speculation |OT11| Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War [NEW NEWS, NEW THREAD - CHECK OUT THE STAFF POST]

Which team are you on?

  • Double Team (1997)

  • Team Walnut

  • The A-Team

  • Team "No One Can Stop Mr. Domino"

  • Sports Team

  • "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel."

  • Team Margarita


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Isayas

Member
Jun 10, 2018
2,474
I'd happily pay $1,000 for a console if its power was relative to its cost. However most people see their phone as a utility (or many utilities) and only a minority (maybe people like us) value our consoles in such a way. Also I'd imagine the mark-up on phones is pretty significant and it is all tied into the contract model, the fact that a Samsung phone retails for nearly double in the EU/US than in some Asian countries must mean they are simply scalping tjose willing to pay, something that I doubt you would want to be the case for consoles.
A stack is the limit I would pay for a console.
 

Sems4arsenal

Banned
Apr 7, 2019
797
Everything that’s been stated has nothing to do with TFs. We have no idea. Also if 9 TF is true that’s fine. That’s still a good machine. More is better in any circumstance but 9TF isn’t a bad machine.
Zhuge said the BOM to the series X is close. So any major difference in power is almost certainly debunked. That and every single insider said both are close.
 

More Butter

Member
Jun 12, 2018
1,360
Zhuge said the BOM to the series X is close. So any major difference in power is almost certainly debunked. That and every single insider said both are close.
Yes because BOM indicates a specific TF number. I’m not saying one way or another but my point is that no new info regarding TF has come out in any way. I can’t wait to see what it is though.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
1,564
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation |OT12|8 9.2

The E0 revision would indicate that the chip went through 4 major redesigns.
Major steppings cost the company money and they take time which is why you obviously want to avoid that if possible.
Is there "official" info stating revision E0 or is this based on the "5th revision" tweet or story that was around a few weeks ago?
Is it possible, since both ariel and oberon share the same ID, that ariel went through steppings A0-C0 and when Oberon came along it had its own stepping A0-B0. That would still result in 5 stepping on what is seemingly the same chip but maybe different.
 

Foorbits

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,625
Zhuge said the BOM to the series X is close. So any major difference in power is almost certainly debunked. That and every single insider said both are close.
he said: " Also I want to clarify one point from the original tweet. I’m not saying that XSX build cost is $460. I estimated that the build cost would be in the $460 minimum to $520 maximum range based on current component costs. To simplify it, higher than the PS5 build cost somewhat. "

If the Series X BOM comes in at the higher end of that it could signal a decent gap between the two.
 

xem

Member
Oct 31, 2017
557
Or they know that the Pro's cooling situation was garbage and want to do better for PS5. Or maybe they're going for a smaller form factor that needs better cooling.
Possibly but not sure how you draw that conclusion. The PS4 Pro sounds like a jet engine becomes of how poor of a solution it is. This doesn’t mean the clock rate will be higher because they are going for a more robust cooling solution.

Again, we don’t have a clear picture yet.
I am having problems to believe that. Making very good cooling solutions isn't new and expensive. Like I said few pages before, there are several mobile workstations with a ordinary cooling solution which didn't had a high BOM. I can't believe Sony has trouble to with quality and pricing.
I wanted to believe that the full chip capable could be more than 40cu. But looking at github and now this info about possible higher than normal cost on cooling says to me its going to run at a high clock. Sure they could be looking at better cooling and lower clocks but we havent see any info with a possible higher CU count.
 

Franco_Tech

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,334
At this range of problem I prefer a delay to get those cancelled features back, I'm still not going to buy a nex gen console this year. First consoles tend to be more faulty than the revised ones.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,314
he said: " Also I want to clarify one point from the original tweet. I’m not saying that XSX build cost is $460. I estimated that the build cost would be in the $460 minimum to $520 maximum range based on current component costs. To simplify it, higher than the PS5 build cost somewhat. "

If the Series X BOM comes in at the higher end of that it could signal a decent gap between the two.
It depends how that difference is spent. It’s possible the Xbox Series X could have more RAM, a larger die, and a bigger SSD and have almost no performance gap because the smaller PS5 die is clocked faster and the RAM difference is minor. It just reinforces the status quo that the X is probably, but not unquestionably, stronger.
 

grosbard

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
767
he said: " Also I want to clarify one point from the original tweet. I’m not saying that XSX build cost is $460. I estimated that the build cost would be in the $460 minimum to $520 maximum range based on current component costs. To simplify it, higher than the PS5 build cost somewhat. "

If the Series X BOM comes in at the higher end of that it could signal a decent gap between the two.
So he knows the specs of both consoles?
 

Silencerx98

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,165
The ultimate irony is that this whole forum has been constantly whining that the PS4 and Pro sound like jet engines, but now that we have word that PS5 is using a more expensive and elaborate cooling solution most likely to address these complaints and everyone goes, "This confirms Github was true and Sony is building a weaker machine!"
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,239
All of these BOM estimates, do they include the discounts console makers get on some parts? Iike the bulk order of RAM for 50-100M over generation, or even a small discount on UHD BR drive for Sony since I think they pay less for licensing?
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,314
All of these BOM estimates, do they include the discounts console makers get on some parts? Iike the bulk order of RAM for 50-100M over generation, or even a small discount on UHD BR drive for Sony since I think they pay less for licensing?
Yes. At the very least, they’re like for like comparable to BOMs from last gen. So PS5 is 70 more expensive than PS4, and XSX is 70-130 more expensive than Xbox One, after subtracting out Kinect costs.

I would say $30-40 is SSD difference to HDD. The rest is APU. RAM is probably flat.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,628
United Kingdom
Zhuge said the BOM to the series X is close. So any major difference in power is almost certainly debunked. That and every single insider said both are close.
The only meaningful takeaway from this recent news.

That and the scarcity of components which will be a concern for both MS and Sony. The corona virus also impacting manufacturing regions for said components will also further the cause for concern.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,239
I would say $30-40 is SSD difference to HDD. The rest is APU. RAM is probably flat.
Is the SSD adding $30 on top of the $40 that HDD cost in 2013 tho?
1TB SSDs are $100-$120 new. Meaning they’re sold to those PC part makers by their suppliers at $40-$60, because they have to sell them at 2-3x cost for profits.

So if it costs $40 to make a 1TB SSD, then add retailer fee, and then there’s the $50-$60 mark up for Seagate, WD, etc, totaling around $100-$120.

wouldn’t console makers get this same item at a cheaper rate because they’re going to order 50-100M more potentially than standard SSD sellers? Just a thought I could be way off base

I feel like the SSD will come out closer to $40-$50, not $70-$80 per unit
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,345
he said: " Also I want to clarify one point from the original tweet. I’m not saying that XSX build cost is $460. I estimated that the build cost would be in the $460 minimum to $520 maximum range based on current component costs. To simplify it, higher than the PS5 build cost somewhat. "

If the Series X BOM comes in at the higher end of that it could signal a decent gap between the two.
He then made a later post saying the BOM of MS not significantly higher than PS5.
So i guess that depends on what you would call significantly higher .
 

Axel Stone

Member
Jan 10, 2020
767
All of these BOM estimates, do they include the discounts console makers get on some parts? Iike the bulk order of RAM for 50-100M over generation, or even a small discount on UHD BR drive for Sony since I think they pay less for licensing?
I’m not going to pretend to know anything about how these prices are worked out, but it seems odd to me that a manufacturer would be giving discounts based on projected sales figures rather than actual orders. If AMD had done the same with the One based on 360 sales figures, then the discount would be based on double the number of units they actually sold.

As I say, I don’t know how these things work, I could be wrong, but it seems like a risky thing to be taking into account for any major discounts.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,314
Is the SSD adding $30 on top of the $40 that HDD cost in 2013 tho?
1TB SSDs are $100-$120 new. Meaning they’re sold to those PC part makers by their suppliers at $40-$60, because they have to sell them at 2-3x cost for profits.

So if it costs $40 to make a 1TB SSD, then add retailer fee, and then there’s the $50-$60 mark up for Seagate, WD, etc, totaling around $100-$120.

wouldn’t console makers get this same item at a cheaper rate because they’re going to order 50-100M more potentially than standard SSD sellers? Just a thought I could be way off base

I feel like the SSD will come out closer to $40-$50, not $70-$80 per unit
I’m accounting for discounts in my estimates. 1TB SSDs with the speeds matching what is rumored are closer to $150-$180.
 

Manfred

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,146
Geneva, Switzerland
All of these BOM estimates, do they include the discounts console makers get on some parts? Iike the bulk order of RAM for 50-100M over generation, or even a small discount on UHD BR drive for Sony since I think they pay less for licensing?
It's made with public market prices offered by chinese or taiwanese manufacturers, but without knowing the possible margin on it, involving private contractual terms and detailed supply chain for the product. Stay a valuable estimation though just to encompass raw costs.
 

Pheonix

Member
Dec 14, 2018
2,543
St Kitts
Yes. At the very least, they’re like for like comparable to BOMs from last gen. So PS5 is 70 more expensive than PS4, and XSX is 70-130 more expensive than Xbox One, after subtracting out Kinect costs.

I would say $30-40 is SSD difference to HDD. The rest is APU. RAM is probably flat.
Don't forget the HDD back then cst around $35.

of that $70 higher BOM, only like $10-$15 will actually be going to the HDD to make it an SSD. Or hell lets call it $20. So the PS5 SSD cost them like $55.

so what's the other $50 for? better cooling? 7nm tax? RAM? Or a combination of all those things.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,314
Don't forget the HDD back then cst around $35.

of that $70 higher BOM, only like $10-$15 will actually be going to the HDD to make it an SSD. Or hell lets call it $20. So the PS5 SSD cost them like $55.

so what's the other $50 for? better cooling? 7nm tax? RAM? Or a combination of all those things.
I think people are being overly optimistic about wholesale SSD costs.
 

Basarili

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,333
Haarlem
I had A LOT catch up work to do.

Are we members of Resetera the only forum on the net that is also capable of engineering a console?
I mean how did Microsoft and Sony not see the potential some of us have here?



The time of sacrifice has come!

MrWilson and Aliand

Step forth and be judged! For the crimes of wrongly guessing a PlayStation 5 reveal date, I bestow upon you these new avatars!

MrWilson, here is yours. Wear it with shame:



Aliand, accept this upon yourself:





Until tomorrow.......

Soon we have to make a short movie with ''Previously on Resetera'' due to all the changes we're going through.
The rumored build prices are so similar that I doubt any power differences between the two machines will be significant. This generation will not be decided by power.
That's what I don't understand if they have the same BOM and PS5 is 9TF and XBOX 12TF. What or how did Sony do wrong to get the same level of BOM?
Everything I read so far seem to point to a company (Sony) who isn't in the game bussiness for 25 years, but are launching their first console.
Where did their expertise gone too, vanished due to some kind of spell?
Some stuff sounds not logical unless someone within Sony sabotaged the whole R&D from the beginning.
Is there someone who can explain all this decisions of Sony in SIMPLE ENGLISH.
Could Cerny really have lost the design battle? I don't want to believe it yet, but yeah, maybe.
I'm afraid if this turns out to be true atleast that's what I also can't understand.
Cerny can lose the battle. Microsoft is 100% employing the best of the best. People just know who cerny is. Xbox has panos panay working on it!
XBOX360 Red Ring of Death employee says hi.
PS4 and XB1 sales are tanking big time, next gen consoles can’t arrive soon enough:
Both of them should lower the price of their current consoles.
Exactly how I feel after reading through all these posts. We never learn it :D

I keep getting these dejavu's.
 
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