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Will Sony present Remote Play as a killer app for PS5, with the help of 5G making its debut soon?

  • Yes, Remote Play will be a killer app for PS5 if Sony plays their cards right (expand support, etc)

    Votes: 165 28.6%
  • No, Remote Play is probably dead in the water next gen, just like it was this gen

    Votes: 252 43.7%
  • Sony should forget about Remote Play and just go all-in on PS Now to compete with xCloud

    Votes: 130 22.5%
  • PS5 should be a hybrid console like Switch (I had to include this option for *those* people)

    Votes: 30 5.2%

  • Total voters
    577

Deleted member 49132

User requested account closure
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Oct 28, 2018
968
Edit: New developments as of 6/3/19



Edit: New developments as of 5/20/19

From Sony's Corporate Strategy Meeting FY2019:
https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/news/20190521_E.pdf

D7DYjddX4AAoFzP.jpg:large
Through the evolution of "Remote Play and "PlayStation Now", provide a seamless game experience anytime, anywhere.

[...]

Sony will pursue its mission to make PlayStation "The Best Place to Play" by leveraging the latest computing, streaming, cloud, and 5G technologies, together with excellent content.


Edit: As of March 7th 2019, Sony has officially released a Remote Play app for iOS.



Throughout the course of this generation, the Remote Play feature for PS4 - that allows users to connect (certain) devices to their PS4 via internet to play their games while away from the console - has been very poorly marketed, executed, and realized by Sony.

The blame for this falls mostly on the shoulders of Sony, but not all of it is in their control.

Despite all of that, I believe this feature has generation-defining potential for PlayStation 5 - that is - if Sony has actually been paying attention, and planning to capitalize on it in a way that appeals to the current market.

The first and most important initiative Sony needs to take if they want Remote Play to succeed as a serious killer app for PS5: they need to allow support for Remote Play on Android and iOS devices.

Edit: As of March 7th 2019, Sony has officially released a Remote Play app for iOS.

Currently, Remote Play is only supported on Sony's own Xperia smartphone/tablet line, along with Windows & Mac PCs. The problem with this is obvious; nobody owns Xperia smartphones, and the number of people streaming PS4 games to their desktop or laptop PC is likely very slim for a multitude of reasons.

I am not a business executive, nor am I a board member at SIE, but it's not unreasonable think that the same dismissive attitude Sony has shown towards cross-play, backward compatibility, and competing subscription services on their platform (EA Access), has something to do with their selfish and greedy decision to keep Remote Play from Android & iOS.

Sony wanted it to be exclusive to their own brand of devices - in the interest of higher sales and adoption of said devices, especially after seeing the continued phenomenal sales performance of PS4 so early on this generation. They saw an opportunity for one leg to help out the other, but it has clearly been an unfruitful attempt:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/31/17633792/sony-mobile-xperia-smartphone-sales-earnings-report

"the latest earnings report from Sony indicates the company's already tiny smartphone business has shrunk by almost half. In the quarter ending in July 2018, Sony managed to sell only 2 million mobile devices, down 1.4 million from the same period in the preceding year."

________________________________________________



Fast forward to 2019 - we are now on the cusp of a new console generation - and as a business, Sony should have the intelligence and foresight to see how Remote Play can benefit them much more as a selling point of PS5, by putting it in the hands of anyone who owns the more ubiquitous devices.

The idea of being able to play your entire PlayStation library on the go, similar to how you play your Switch, is an exciting concept, and one that is realistically possible in the next generation. The deal would be made even sweeter if the PS5 is backward compatible with user's entire PS4 library.




Now let's talk about 5G.


First and foremost - and I want to be very clear on this before I go any further - there are no major 5G capable devices on the market as of right now. HOWEVER, current reports and rumors suggest that most, if not all manufacturers have 5G phones in the works, and we can expect to see them rolling out over the next 2 years. We will see quite a few in 2019, and we will likely see every major player shipping 5G enabled handsets by the end of 2020.

Now, knowing this community, I'm sure some of you are aware of the imminence of 5G and some of the major improvements it promises to make in the near future for mobile broadband connectivity.

One of these major improvements is defined as Ultra Low Latency - this is the biggest key ingredient to Remote Play's potential success, as the user experience greatly hinges on how low the input/response times are while playing games at varying distances from the main console.

5G is targeting 1 millisecond of latency, and while there's obviously other factors of latency involved in this whole scenario, most of that will be diminished when combined with the extreme low latency 5G will provide. This will be a night and day improvement over what we currently have with Wi-Fi, and especially 4G LTE.

The other major noteworthy improvement 5G brings to the table is the sheer speed of its data rate. We're talking 1000s of megabits/second. That speed is way more than enough to support a video stream of 4K 60fps at a high bitrate.


But just because it's all possible doesn't mean it's guaranteed.

The technology is intriguing, and all of this sounds great in theory, but it's really on Sony to invest enough in their infrastructure to support this technology...Microsoft has doubled down on Azure and their cloud/streaming infrastructure, has Sony done the same?

They have the capital and the wherewithal, but do they see the potential in this as a killer application for PS5 - enough to go all in?

That's the question I hope we learn the answers to once Sony begins sharing their plans for PlayStation 5.

Microsoft has laid its cards on the table, we've seen what they plan to do with xCloud. It would be interesting to see Sony go a different route than the "Netflix for games" streaming approach. Being able to play the library of games that I already own - anytime anywhere, no monthly sub required - is much more appealing to me than paying a monthly subscription for a Netflix style service.

I see the use case for both, and I also see the likelihood of Sony going for a more apples-to-apples competitor for xCloud, given that it already sort of exists in PS Now - just not quite at the same scale - but I'm only suggesting other exciting possibilities that could give us more freedom with how we choose to play games in the forthcoming generation.




5G rollout in the United States is underway, with major cities being the first to be served - and most carriers expecting to have full nationwide coverage by the end of 2020.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
8,630
The World
Any streaming service could and probably would easily allow you to play the games you own.

5G is nothing exclusive, everybody working on streaming - MS, Sony, Google, etc. will benefit from it.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
I can use Remote play with my PlayStation 4 controller on my Xperia? Damn, that is an interesting alternative to the Vita.
 

TheUnforgiven

Banned
Nov 23, 2018
265
Yes please. But 5g is not the only way to improve current shitty remote play, they could also improve on hw encoding much like almost flawless and free pc apps already do like parsec.

Either way this should be somewhere near the top of the priorities list and not only for Sony.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,841
Sony already has an xcloud competitor, and unlike Microsoft's service it's already running. For some reason it's been really delayed in some countries, but Playstation Now is soon expanding to Nordics and Spain.

Remote Play is not going to replace the Switch, though. Having the hardware on the handheld itself will always work better than streaming inputs.
 

Sidewinder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,190
Yeah, this should be an important feature on the PS5 from the start, playing your library on the move on any capable iOS or Android device is a very enticing feature for many people. This is what they should learn from Switchs extreme success and not try to build their own hybrid console, which I don't believe they will, but some people around here want Sony to do exactly that.
 

Henrar

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,907
FYI you'll never reach promised 5G numbers (both latency and bandwidth) in a real world.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,059
Yes/no. The fact Somy have Remote play should definitely already have been available on iOS/Android and not locked to Xperia devices. They need to do that ASAP

But I think they can go one step further - if they have remote play, and they have PSNow offering PS4 games, how much of a leap is it to offer remote play without your own PS4/5? So basically Xcloud
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 49132

User requested account closure
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Oct 28, 2018
968
Sony already has an xcloud competitor, and unlike Microsoft's service it's already running. For some reason it's been really delayed in some countries, but Playstation Now is soon expanding to Nordics and Spain.

Remote Play is not going to replace the Switch, though. Having the hardware on the handheld itself will always work better than streaming inputs.
I did state that Sony already sort of has an xCloud competitor with PS Now, just that it's not quite as ambitious as what Microsoft seems to have in mind - yet, anyway.

And I'm not saying that Remote Play is going to replace the Switch, I'm more suggesting that Sony may bring a potential competitor in that space if they can execute it correctly next gen.

FYI you'll never reach promised 5G numbers (both latency and bandwidth) in a real world.
I wouldn't be so sure. People probably thought the same thing about 4G back when it was in its conceptual stages.
 
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tyfon

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,680
Norway
I have both this on my xperia + ds4 + gcm10 and a switch in my bag usually..
They do not compete for me, as the games are very different.

I want both please :)

edit: any yes, open the damn app. also put it on TVs again
 

Issen

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,819
Remote Play right now works like utter shit PS4 Pro to PC/Mac and PS4 Pro to Xperia (Tried with Z2, X and currently XZ1 in my case) even with completely ideal conditions (PS4 wired, PC wired, also tried a wired 2013 macbook pro 13 inch, 5GHz AC wifi phone, high end asus router). Tried with my Vita Slim as well and it works better latency-wise but the image quality is ass and the video feed still gets hitches and cuts anyway.

If Sony can make at least local streaming work right, that'll be a massive plus for me. Remote streaming would be icing on the cake, but let's learn to walk before we learn to run.
 

Jeb

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Mar 14, 2018
2,144
My problem with 5G is whether telecom providers will play ball and not overcharge out the wazoo for these services.

In my experience, I have yet to have any positive experience with telecom providers, they are the reason I dread an all cloud future.
If your local telecom is a shitty monopoly or coordinated oligopoly, you need to trust these guys for a seemless cloud gaming experience while they have no incentive to give you afforable or good service.
 

Spine Crawler

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,228
if vita remote play is indicative then no... streaming will be an interesting thing for people that own the devices anyway but not a real alternative to handheld gaming
 

@dedmunk

Banned
Oct 11, 2018
3,088
If 5g can achieve that then what's the point of even buying hardware, you could just stream everything, and I doubt it would be exclusive to Sony.

Every 5g demo I've read about or watched had always been same room or very close proximity.
 
OP
OP

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Oct 28, 2018
968
if vita remote play is indicative then no... streaming will be an interesting thing for people that own the devices anyway but not a real alternative to handheld gaming
Vita remote play is not indicative.

I went through many points as to how and why this technology can be (and most likely will be) greatly improved by next generation.

If it's a smooth enough experience, it absolutely could be a viable competitor in the space of portable console gaming.
If 5g can achieve that then what's the point of even buying hardware, you could just stream everything, and I doubt it would be exclusive to Sony.

Every 5g demo I've read about or watched had always been same room or very close proximity.
It won't be exclusive to Sony.

Microsoft is also probably banking on the potential of 5G to help fulfill their promise of seamless game-streaming as well.

And I believe many console gamers still care about owning the hardware and the games, but being able to play the games you own on the go is an exciting concept that has the opportunity to materialize next gen.

I think Sony is in a good spot to make that a reality, if they can pull their head out of their ass.
 
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Genetrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,733
Great thread. Not sure about the 5G requirement but greatly improving the local streaming performance and finally providing an app for iOS / Android together with fully functional current library support would be the winner combo for me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,205
5G! Ten Gigabit networking!
Charged at $10 per Gigabyte!

You forgot that telcos have always charged through the nose for mobile data. I'm paying $120 pm for 60GB full 4g speed before being throttled to 1.5mbps, and that's considered *a good deal*.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
I'm not sure I get the enthusiasm for 5G. Do you really believe carriers are going to build the infrastructure out to everyone, and then let people stream in 4K at 60FPS without having an expensive plan?

Your concept of 5G latency is also an interesting one. You seem to think it'll beat a good wireless network. The latency they're talking about is latency to the mast. The rest of the journey across the internet is going to be the same as today. Latency, if carriers provide the right amount of capacity to reduce contention, is going to be equal to a wireless network, not substantially better. (On a wireless connection, ping your default gateway. You should get results <1ms. That's what 5G is targeting - wireless already does it.)

Also, when you're talking about "gaming on the go", then you're going to run into 5G coverage problems, for years.

Sony should certainly open up Remote Play to more devices, and that might help them a bit. They should also open up PlayStation Now to mobile devices, and a decent controller adapter would probably be a good idea. However, I think you severely overestimate the amount of people who really want carry around a controller to use their phones to stream console games (while also killing their battery).
 
Jan 17, 2019
964
I did state that Sony already sort of has an xCloud competitor with PS Now, just that it's not quite as ambitious as what Microsoft seems to have in mind - yet, anyway.

How do you know it's not ambitious? You know that PS Now is working for years now unlike xCloud which is still in test phase. This sound like Sony is silent, just sitting on their chairs doing nothing.
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,293
Germany
I don't see anything meaningful happening with 5G if the data caps stay as they are.
Until they sell real all inclusive data plans dor a reasonable price, I'll burn through my included data in no time with 5G. It's stupid
I already do with 4G
 

NCLI

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
185
So a few things:
The other major noteworthy improvement 5G brings to the table is the sheer speed of its data rate. We're talking 1000s of megabits/second. That speed is way more than enough to support a video stream of 4K 60fps at a high bitrate.
We're still talking shared bandwidth. Now, it is definitely going to be a massive improvement over 4G, but don't expect to actually reach gigabit speeds on your device very often.
The technology is intriguing, and all of this sounds great in theory, but it's really on Sony to invest enough in their infrastructure to support this technology...Microsoft has doubled down on Azure and their cloud/streaming infrastructure, has Sony done the same?
Remote Play is, and should always be, P2P. So not much infrastructure is required on Sony's part. PS Now requires infrastructure, but they seem to be doing well so far.
Currently, Remote Play is only supported on Sony's own Xperia smartphone/tablet line, along with Windows & Mac PCs. The problem with this is obvious; nobody owns Xperia smartphones, and the number of people streaming PS4 games to their desktop or laptop PC is likely very slim for a multitude of reasons.
I find it pretty likely that, if Sony goes this route, they will release a foldable Xperia phone/tablet with physical buttons. An evolution of the old Xperia Play, but only for PS Now and Remote Play. They may also allow it on other devices, but quite frankly, playing console games on a touchscreen is just never going to be a great experience.
 
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NCLI

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
185
I don't see anything meaningful happening with 5G if the data caps stay as they are.
Until they sell real all inclusive data plans I burn through my included data in no time with 5G. It's stupid
Data caps are much higher in Europe and Asia, for mobile as well. I pay less than 20 USD, with unlimited texts and calls, for 100 GB per month wtih 4G here in Europe. If I wanted unlimited data on the go, we're talking ~30 USD.

And let's face it, the primary goal for this service would be to take back market share in Japan, not the US.
 
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OP
OP

Deleted member 49132

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968
5G! Ten Gigabit networking!
Charged at $10 per Gigabyte!

You forgot that telcos have always charged through the nose for mobile data. I'm paying $120 pm for 60GB full 4g speed before being throttled to 1.5mbps, and that's considered *a good deal*.
Did phone plan prices raise to a ridiculous level when 4G was in its infancy?

I don't recall that happening and I don't see why 5G would all the sudden change that.

If that was the case, people wouldn't want it.
 

Waffle

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,823
Part of it will still use your home's network so I wonder how much lower the latency will get. Also that's gonna be one expensive data plan.
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,293
Germany
Data caps are much higher in Europe and Asia, for mobile as well. I pay less than 20 USD, with unlimited texts and calls, for 100 GB per month wtih 4G here in Europe. If I wanted unlimited data on the go, we're talking ~30 USD.

And let's face it, the primary goal for this service would be to take back market share in Japan, not the US.
Good for you, not in Germany though.
 

NCLI

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
185
I bought a PSTV specifically for Remote Play but it works horribly.

Real shame. It's a great concept just poorly executed.
I did the same, works great for me. It really depends on your connection speed(if not playing at home), as well as the quality of your home network.

I frequently bring it with me to my parents 200 kilometers away, but we both have fibre, and high-end routers.
 

Paxton25

Member
May 9, 2018
1,898
Did phone plan prices raise to a ridiculous level when 4G was in its infancy?

I don't recall that happening and I don't see why 5G would all the sudden change that.

If that was the case, people wouldn't want it.
I pay £17 a month for unlimited 4g internet and I have since 4g first came out. The same deal is roughly double the price now
 

Andri

Member
Mar 20, 2018
6,017
Switzerland
5G! Ten Gigabit networking!
Charged at $10 per Gigabyte!

You forgot that telcos have always charged through the nose for mobile data. I'm paying $120 pm for 60GB full 4g speed before being throttled to 1.5mbps, and that's considered *a good deal*.

In your country maybe.
In many european countries(actually all of them due to EU abolishing Roaming), you get unlimited mobile data for around 30-50€.

But that requires regulation, and that just wont happen in certain countries.
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,110
Sony's answer to xcloud / project stream is PSNow, which already exists but will eventually upgrade it's infrastructure/tech and restructure it's offerings to compete more directly with gamepass/xcloud streaming in the future. I don't expect the pivot to be overly difficult once they commit to it, although they may drag their feet getting day-1 exclusives on their competing services.

I don't think they really need to have a direct answer to Switch per se. Streaming in general is a possible threat to handheld gaming, but it's really hard to make bets on timelines for when these things might eclipse them, or if they will.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,257
While I love the idea aside from data-caps another big issue is battery-tech. Constant streaming off a network connection along with either powering a controller over USB or having it connected via bluetooth will put a big strain on phone batteries and I can't imagine many people being too thrilled about that. It's one thing if a dedicated gaming-device like the Vita runs dry but having a phone running low on battery is a big deal for most. Of course we live in the age of power-banks and such but I could imagine that it ultimately will be a too big hassle for most people to bother with, maybe I'm fully off the base here though.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,427
I wouldn't be so sure. People probably thought the same thing about 4G back when it was in its conceptual stages.

I could be way off base, but as far as I am aware we are not close to the 4G limit, isn't theoretically high speed 1Gbit/125MBytes ? Top real world pratical usage has been recorded around 50MByte marker no?
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,293
Germany
I see 100 GB for 30€? Not as good, obviously, but still affordable. Not LTE though, but I'm sure prices will continue to drop.
Nah. It's more around 10GB included data for contracts.
Adding more costs stupid fees. Like 10€ / 1GB

What you see there are most likely prices for DSL / cable replacements with LTE at home. With stationary routers and contracts not working in phones.
 

Vitet

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,573
Valencia, Spain
Data caps are much higher in Europe and Asia, for mobile as well. I pay less than 20 USD, with unlimited texts and calls, for 100 GB per month wtih 4G here in Europe. If I wanted unlimited data on the go, we're talking ~30 USD.

And let's face it, the primary goal for this service would be to take back market share in Japan, not the US.

And not in Spain. The only infinite GB here I know is a fiber+mobile combo from Yoigo for 90€, and most data caps tops are 25GB
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876
With Shareplay, RemotePlay and PSNow they surely have proven tools at disposal. And patents.

However the handled aspect is not necesseraly linked, but sure a free iOS/Android app for any device is possible.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
What's the point of the poll?

Do you really see no middle ground between "Remote Play will be a killer app" and "Remote Play is dead in the water"?

If there was a choice like "Remote Play will help the PS5 a little but it's not a generation-defining feature", then I'd vote for that, but the current choices are awful.
 

FrakEarth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,277
Liverpool, UK
There are still arguments over who is going to provide 5g infrastructure here in the UK, and then - as with 4g - the initial roll out is going to come at a cost premium. No game console manufacturer should invest heavily on the expectation that 5g is going to be commonplace in this sort of timeframe.

PsNow on the other hand has potential. Sony have the possibility of driving users from physical hardware to software as a service, a channel that can be prevalent across devices of all screen sizes and available anywhere. I think PSNow has the more obvious future.

Even then.. hardware is here to stay.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Sony already has an xcloud competitor, and unlike Microsoft's service it's already running. For some reason it's been really delayed in some countries, but Playstation Now is soon expanding to Nordics and Spain.

That service is mainly about old games, and for now, Sony isn't keen on putting their games release day and date on PS Now. Hardly any competition for the scope of xcloud as we know.

The Service needs significant improvement.
 

Mindwipe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,223
London
Remote Play doesn't fucking work properly five feet away from my PS4, never mind remotely.

The notion it'll ever be mainstream over mobile when it's so unreliable over fixed line is fantasy.
 

Henrar

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,907
That service is mainly about old games, and for now, Sony isn't keen on putting their games release day and date on PS Now. Hardly any competition for the scope of xcloud as we know.

The Service needs significant improvement.
PS Now already has some PS4 games. It's a matter of adding the games to library which is way easier than setting up the service itself. And in that case, Sony is way ahead of Microsoft, as they actually have a service you can use.
 

Mandelbo

Member
Oct 30, 2017
547
While 5G is indeed much quicker than most current wireless solutions, it's also substantially less reliable than 4G and Wifi because of the frequencies it operates at, which is why most demos of 5G are in relatively controlled environments - the frequencies it uses don't reach as far as 4G, and they are far easier to block. For instance, 5G performs far worse in rain, and a chunk of the spectrum can actually be absorbed by oxygen, effectively guaranteeing that you aren't gonna see anywhere close to advertised speeds in the real world.

Hardware that can accept 5G also need far more components to actually receive the signal, heightening the battery stress on the system - that's something that will be iterated on and improved over time, though. However, the fundamental shortcomings with the technology can't really be fixed unless physics itself changes, which is likely why 5G is increasingly getting positioned as a home internet solution rather than a replacement for 4G; it just isn't reliable enough to be used on the go, which'd probably hinder the idea of using it for remote play. Advertised speeds mean nothing if it's next to impossible to achieve them outside of a test environment.

Give this article a look if you want to find out more: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/12/dont-buy-a-5g-smartphone-at-least-not-for-a-while/
 

Sprat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,684
England
I can use Remote play with my PlayStation 4 controller on my Xperia? Damn, that is an interesting alternative to the Vita.
Yes I've been doing it for years.

Started with the z3 rgb xz line.

I currently grind out a few bounties on my xz3 on my lunch break at work.

But it should be noted it is also extremely easy to install on any android device.

Same as you do fortnite. Download the apk show third party content then install and place the remote play licence and you are good to go.
 

Mindwipe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,223
London
Yes I've been doing it for years.

Started with the z3 rgb xz line.

I currently grind out a few bounties on my xz3 on my lunch break at work.

But it should be noted it is also extremely easy to install on any android device.

Same as you do fortnite. Download the apk show third party content then install and place the remote play licence and you are good to go.

This is not remotely true.

The remote play app has not worked on any other handset for over a year and there are no public workarounds.