PS5 Speculation |OT12| - Aw hell, Transistor's running this again?

[Jraphics Horse]

So XSX GitHub leak had 56 cu, but final is 52 which means PS5 final cu count will be 32 and will have ~8.1 tf?

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Perhaps the Xbox die has 60 cu in total vs 40 on the PS5, but they aren't forced to have the same amount of deactivated cu as each other.
If we believe the PS5 cu count rumour then we have to consider that it being the same as the PS4 Pro is not just a coincidence and they might have less flexibility for BC reasons.

 

[Patent]

I'm not sure if this is ok to ask, so mods go easy on me if I'm crossing the line here, but didn't Klee send Matt the spec sheet for the XSX and PS5? Would he be able to say if the specs that Klee had about XSX were the same as what the reveal is? Might be able to judge his PS5 prediction with that in mind?

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Klee did claim to have the spec sheets but the only thing he provided was proof that he would know the person who might know the specs

 

[Xplainin]

So are able to judge how much L3 Cache has been taken out? (Im sure XSX and PS5 will be the same on this one) And what if any negative effect will this have on gaming?

 

[Xplainin]

Klee did claim to have the spec sheets but the only thing he provided was proof that he would know the person who might know the specs

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I thought he said he was going to send the spec sheet to Matt prior to him self banning?

 

[Patent]

I thought he said he was going to send the spec sheet to Matt prior to him self banning?

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i do not believe this to be the case but could be wrong

 

[Expy]

I thought he said he was going to send the spec sheet to Matt prior to him self banning?

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He said that literally like 15-30 minutes before his ban went into effect. Doubt he had time to do it, but he also noted that Matt probably already had the same specs.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

This is next gen quality visuals. The leap will be massive.

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Current mid-gen quality you mean?

We already saw next-gen quality

:

 

[褲蓋Calo]

i legit laughed at the devkit pic. i guess 12 tflops can be achieved in a flat console after all.

i remember team thermals telling me how Sony just couldnt match the 12 tflops number because MS had figured out the only way to get 12 tflops in a box.

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If they want the fan noises to be heard two rooms away sure they can.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Current mid-gen quality you mean?

We already saw next-gen quality

:

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True, It was just an example, personally Hellblade II might be the best visuals I've ever seen in engine.

 

[Deleted member 35631]

If to you it's nonlogical, could you please also explain logically why that is? Why is it "nonsense", "highly improbable"?

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I think many people is assuming Sony wants to keep the $399 price no matter what. That's the first reason, I think people believe that the console "must" have lower specs.

Although I'm not very good at technical stuff, I've read things, but then they get debunked. Sorry that I can't give many example, because I suck at these things, but I remember that Sony must be using RDNA 1 when MS announced it was RDNA 2. Even after AMD confirmed that both Sony and MS were using RDNA 2, some people were saying that it couldn't be, and that the wording was confusing.

You have many people saying that the PS5 is very close to the XSX (wether closer lower, or closer higher), yet, people somehow believe that it's not! Even when today were proven RIGHT!

The fact that Sony is using mostly the same technology as Microsoft in the PS5 (which they confirmed first in the Wired article, such as the SSD), somehow people believe that Sony's console is less powerful.

Sony and Microsoft are working closely with AMD on these consoles. AMD wants these consoles to be powerful, they want to prove that their chips are better than Intel's and Nvidia's. They are using these consoles as showcases of their technology. They have mentioned that in a few AMD presentations.

Sony has never made a weaker console by design. Yes, we all know that the PS4 could've been weaker, but would've still be more powerful than Xbox One at launch. However, they decided for the more powerful option in the end.

 

[Praedyth]

These past days I've been addicted to comparison videos on loading times, HDD vs SSD. I need to say that the demo Microsoft put yesterday didn't surprise me much. I really don't know what it is, but those loading times seen normal to me, nothing next-geny. Maybe I was spoiled by those videos, but I think the culprit was the PS5's SSD demo with Spiderman.

I was really expecting to see less-than-a-second loading times, that would be, for me, the start of the next generation. That's what brings me to these points that you can feel free to answer like I did:

• Do you believe that those less-than-second load times seen in the Spiderman demo could be reached by PS4 games running on BC?

I personally believe that the game wasn't optimized because the hardware was still under development and that makes my hype even bigger, to imagine playing and loading almost instantaneously.

• What are the implications of that demo running on the "low speed" devkit in the Wired article? What "high speed" could be?

I don't think games will start up in an instant, but this makes me believe that could be a possibility. I don't know the intricacies of loading a game, but I can only dream.

• How accessible will be the SSD to the developers? How can it be a game changer for multiplat games?

With the PS4, Sony (thanks Cerny) built a philosophy around making a system developer-friendly and that has really paid off. With some developers (Remedy if I remember it right) praising the SSD, it makes me thing they took this approach to the next level with the PS5. I think the way the PS5 SSD will be available to the developers will be the real difference the insiders were talking that couldn't be measured in GPU power.

With all that being said, I recognize that the XSX demo was pretty fast and fascinating, the console world will take a huge leap foward. I cannot wait to see what Sony will show us, and to finally be able to change loadouts really fast in Destiny 2 on console.

 

[RivalGT]

Here is my best guess on the specs for the PS5. I'm likely to be wrong on everything...

8/16 thread CPU possibly clocked at 3.2 to 3.4 ghz
48 CU GPU clocked at 2000 MHz
16 GB of ram 12 GB for games and 4GB for the OS.... I'm clueless when it comes to what type of ram is best for a game console.
1TB SSD with speeds ranging from 3,500-4,000 MB/s

 

[Expy]

I think 12,4 TF is a good number.
At 52 CU would allow them to clock under 2Ghz for better thermals.

 

[JaseC64]

Question on the ssd...how did both companies come up with the same or similar idea? I never understood how competing companies can have similar features on new consoles. It's like 2 or more companies come to an agreement on some features and release their version with their own custom designs.

I know SSDs are now "mainstream" but how did each work on a 'custom' nvme drive this gen? Like how was It that Sony didnt use a standard 2.5 ssd while MS used an nvme drive? It appears both are using a custom nvme drive for storage. Little odd.

Edit: I havent looked at the released specs fo rdd xsx so forgive me if I got any of the details wrong.

 

[ManOfWar]

Question on the ssd...how did both companies come up with the same or similar idea?

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Because their products have to fit in the technological profiles of the day. SSDs are the faster storage available nowadays, so off course both will use them.

And you'll see customizations from both, turning both solutions pretty different between them.

They'll customize it in order to differentiate their products and add value. I don't understand what you find odd about it.

 

[褲蓋Calo]

I think many people is assuming Sony wants to keep the $399 price no matter what. That's the first reason, I think people believe that the console "must" have lower specs.

Although I'm not very good at technical stuff, I've read things, but then they get debunked. Sorry that I can't give many example, because I suck at these things, but I remember that Sony must be using RDNA 1 when MS announced it was RDNA 2. Even after AMD confirmed that both Sony and MS were using RDNA 2, some people were saying that it couldn't be, and that the wording was confusing.

You have many people saying that the PS5 is very close to the XSX (wether closer lower, or closer higher), yet, people somehow believe that it's not! Even when today were proven RIGHT!

The fact that Sony is using mostly the same technology as Microsoft in the PS5 (which they confirmed first in the Wired article, such as the SSD), somehow people believe that Sony's console is less powerful.

Sony and Microsoft are working closely with AMD on these consoles. AMD wants these consoles to be powerful, they want to prove that their chips are better than Intel's and Nvidia's. They are using these consoles as showcases of their technology. They have mentioned that in a few AMD presentations.

Sony has never made a weaker console by design. Yes, we all know that the PS4 could've been weaker, but would've still be more powerful than Xbox One at launch. However, they decided for the more powerful option in the end.

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Fair points!

I guess it's down to the lack of confirmations, just like how before XSX was officially confirmed to be 12TF, both interpretation for "twice the power" were on the table.

I personally tend to dismiss "insiders" because their words are much harder to prove.

I agree that they are likely to use similar technologies offered by AMD.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Oh, and that thread split is everything.

Fair points!

I guess it's down to the lack of confirmations, just like how before XSX was officially confirmed to be 12TF, both interpretation for "twice the power" were on the table.

I personally tend to dismiss "insiders" because their words are much harder to prove.

I agree that they are likely to use similar technologies offered by AMD.

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I wouldn't lump Jason into that category. He has provided reliable information more times than we can count.

 

[Deleted member 10747]

For anyone who had just planned to purchase the PS5 has this XSX reveal made you consider getting the XSX as well?

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Nope, MS needs to show games and show that they have a different vibe than they have now....

Ya'll remember when sony showed a fucking car instead of a console?

lol good times

Halfway through march and no new news. I think i'll self quarantine now.

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I don't know how Sony created such a monster that it go to trick people to think it was a real car.... What you saw wasn't a real car. It was irl rendered by PS5. Brilliant move by Sony. ;)

I need to say that the demo Microsoft put yesterday didn't surprise me much. I really don't know what it is, but those loading times seen normal to me, nothing next-geny. Maybe I was spoiled by those videos, but I think the culprit was the PS5's SSD demo with Spiderman.

I was really expecting to see less-than-a-second loading times, that would be, for me, the start of the next generation. That's what brings me to these points that you can feel free to answer like I did:

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I kind of feel the same... It just didn't seem really fast. Don't get me wrong i know it is impressive but it just feels normal and not special... Difficult to explain. Perhaps my expectations are out of wack...

 

[Qvoth]

so... how worried should sony be right now?

 

[the-pi-guy]

Question on the ssd...how did both companies come up with the same or similar idea? I never understood how competing companies can have similar features on new consoles. It's like 2 or more companies come to an agreement on some features and release their version with their own custom designs.

I know SSDs are now "mainstream" but how did each work on a 'custom' nvme drive this gen? Like how was It that Sony didnt use a standard 2.5 ssd while MS used an nvme drive? It appears both are using a custom nvme drive for storage. Little odd.

Edit: I havent looked at the released specs fo rdd xsx so forgive me if I got any of the details wrong.

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It's probably a combination of having access to the same kinds of technology, coming to the same conclusions about loading times, and consoles containing a lot of custom hardware.

-they deal with a lot of the same vendors for parts. So they make a lot of similar things.
-they've both been pushing immediate-ness more and more this past gen. The PS3/360 era brought installs, downloads and the time went way up between putting the disk in and actually playing. Both the PS4/One went to great lengths to mitigate that.

 

[Patent]

so... how worried should sony be right now?

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About what?

 

[Isayas]

For anyone who had just planned to purchase the PS5 has this XSX reveal made you consider getting the XSX as well?

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Nope. I just don't like anything Xbox's related. I am excited that they've done an overhaul but I am a Sony guy.

 

[FF Seraphim]

For anyone who had just planned to purchase the PS5 has this XSX reveal made you consider getting the XSX as well?

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Not until I see some great exclusives

 

[Isayas]

About what?

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Because they are showing off the PS5 when they have PS4 games to show off and that is more important right now.

 

[modiz]

For anyone who had just planned to purchase the PS5 has this XSX reveal made you consider getting the XSX as well?

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I am interested, but at the same time i really don't have the money to buy 2 next generation consoles now. Also MS still have yet to show me that they got a lineup of games I am interested in.

 

[Deleted member 20297]

These past days I've been addicted to comparison videos on loading times, HDD vs SSD. I need to say that the demo Microsoft put yesterday didn't surprise me much. I really don't know what it is, but those loading times seen normal to me, nothing next-geny. Maybe I was spoiled by those videos, but I think the culprit was the PS5's SSD demo with Spiderman.

I was really expecting to see less-than-a-second loading times, that would be, for me, the start of the next generation. That's what brings me to these points that you can feel free to answer like I did:

• Do you believe that those less-than-second load times seen in the Spiderman demo could be reached by PS4 games running on BC?

Click to shrink...

I don't believe so. Spiderman loaded in "only" 8 seconds on current gen hardware and perhaps the file layout benefited the loading (few large files instead of a lot small files, for example).
Look at the worst offenders this gen, like AC:Origins or FFXV - these games will definitely not load within a second, this speedup is just not possible and people need to keep their expectations in check. I really feel that the Spiderman demo mislead many people.

 

[foolishoptimist]

If they want the fan noises to be heard two rooms away sure they can.

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Gimme 13+tf Sony! I'll buy some Sony noise cancelling headphones to go with it!

 

[Aliand]

so... how worried should sony be right now?

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About the markets crashing, probably a bit as it can play for them or against them, too early to tell.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Those SSD memory cards are so cute. They remind me of the PS2 golden days. So instead of installing and uninstalling games or copying games fomr to the main internal SSD that will wear it off, you can use the memory card instead. Better have that wear off that the internal SSD which means the whole console is messed up.
Also no need to open the console to change a bigger SSD. So practical.
Kudos to Microsoft for doing so. Very smart.
I hope PS5 will have something similar.

 

[AegonSnake]

so... how worried should sony be right now?

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depends. If they have a less powerful console, they are probably pretty worried.

If not, no reason to be worried.

 

[Deleted member 4869]

I thought he said he was going to send the spec sheet to Matt prior to him self banning?

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I very much doubt we will ever see this infamous "spec sheet".

Now that Microsoft has revealed the full list of specs for the Series X, what's the excuse for not showing if they match the "spec list"?

 

[Deleted member 35631]

I hope PS5 will have something similar.

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Well, people are guessing that those patented cartridges are going to be used as SSD expansions. Although they could be done to replace the internal SSD, instead of plug-in cards.

 

[modiz]

Ignore this

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Well, people are guessing that those patented cartridges are going to be used as SSD expansions. Although they could be done to replace the internal SSD, instead of plug-in cards.

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Well those cartridges were game cartridges for Toio console and that wheel wasn't a PS VR2 controller but a Toio controller.
Everything got leaked in the wilderness for PS5, the BC, the voice assistant, the DS5 design, the biofeedback and the screen add-on. We didn't see soemthing similar for PS5 yet. We need a dedicated patent or a confirmation soon.

 

[Lady Gaia]

For anyone who had just planned to purchase the PS5 has this XSX reveal made you consider getting the XSX as well?

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This seems pretty far off topic. In practice, I don't buy consoles based on their specs but rather based on the games that are coming to them. I typically own multiple consoles each generation, and over the last three generations Sony has more than earned my trust that they'll be putting out amazing titles. Anyone else who wants to sell me a console just needs to deliver what I'm looking for on a regular basis to earn my business. I'll certainly give them all a fair evaluation.

Today, though, the one I'm certain about is the PS5. The specs are interesting, but very much secondary.

 

[Evolved1]

so... how worried should sony be right now?

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Being relatively quiet right now doesn't indicate anything about their position. Because it would be a reasonable strategy no matter their position. Weaker HW? Okay, wait and show games and talk features. Similar HW? Okay, wait and show games and talk features. Better HW? Okay, wait and show games, talk features, flaunt power. Any of those approaches would be reasonable. Whatever their plan, they've been planning it for a long time.

 

[Deleted member 4869]

The "excuse" is that they have their own marketing roadmap to follow and don't need to break out of it whenever MS talks

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I wasn't talking about Sony at all...

I was referring to Klee's "spec sheet" and Microsoft revealing their own officially. Are we ever going to know if they match?

 

[modiz]

I wasn't talking about Sony at all...

I was referring to Klee's "spec sheet" and Microsoft revealing their own officially. Are we ever going to know if they match?

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Oh I apologize, I quickly glanced at the post and must have misread.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

This seems pretty far off topic. In practice, I don't buy consoles based on their specs but rather based on the games that are coming to them. I typically own multiple consoles each generation, and over the last three generations Sony has more than earned my trust that they'll be putting out amazing titles. Anyone else who wants to sell me a console just needs to deliver what I'm looking for on a regular basis to earn my business. I'll certainly give them all a fair evaluation.

Today, though, the one I'm certain about is the PS5. The specs are interesting, but very much secondary.

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I agree and share this same sentiment.

 

[Expy]

I wasn't talking about Sony at all...

I was referring to Klee's "spec sheet" and Microsoft revealing their own officially. Are we ever going to know if they match?

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Not unless he comes back or someone else comes out and says they have the same spec sheets.

 

[Xplainin]

So the things that keep me of the opinion that the PS5 will be between 36 and 40 Cu's.
1. The original XSX leak from Reddit which was 100% right about not only XSX but Lockhart, also had the PS5 specs at 8tflops (inline with that CU count).
2. The Taiwanese dude that leaked the die sizes for XSX and PS5 (nailed the XSX size) has the PS5 die at smaller than the XSX, again in line with a 36-40 CU count.
3. The PS5 dev kit leak that came out before Github leaks had the PS5 at 9.2 tflops.
4. Komanchi and RoGame getting specs from data mining showing the PS5 having a 36CU GPU.
5. Github showing a 36 CU GPU for PS5.
6. The BOM cost for PS5 being cheaper than the XSX in estimates.

On the other hand we have insiders that have been wrong on as many things as right.

This isn't to say that there is no way PS5 doesn't get revealed as a 52 CU 12.x tflops GPU, that's well and truly possible.
It's not a Github or die thing, just a collection of things that point to a GPU that size.

Basically when Sony reveal there are going to be tears on one side or the other.
Hopefully they are identical, and devs can push both of them to the max.

 

[Deleted member 23046]

Do you really think the Ps5 will have 9TF? I'll never understand how this belief came to be. To me, is just not logical, it's nonsense. It's like having a day where it's just about to rain, everything is cloudy, black clouds, strong winds, and someone suddenly says: "Man, it's likely it's not going to rain today". Like, yeah, it could happen... I guess; but it's so highly improbable, that you just dismiss him completely.

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It's based on the Layden's quote about the 399$ and the Xbox One X compared with the PS4 Pro.

Those SSD memory cards are so cute. They remind me of the PS2 golden days. So instead of installing and uninstalling games or copying games fomr to the main internal SSD that will wear it off, you can use the memory card instead. Better have that wear off that the internal SSD which means the whole console is messed up.
Also no need to open the console to change a bigger SSD. So practical.
Kudos to Microsoft for doing so. Very smart.
I hope PS5 will have something similar.

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I would wait to know the type of flash cells used in, connectivity, realtime performance, reliability and price before judging it.

 

[Deleted member 8674]

My April date prediction is slightly approaching.

 

[Isayas]

So the things that keep me of the opinion that the PS5 will be between 36 and 40 Cu's.
1. The original XSX leak from Reddit which was 100% right about not only XSX but Lockhart, also had the PS5 specs at 8tflops (inline with that CU count).
2. The Taiwanese dude that leaked the die sizes for XSX and PS5 (nailed the XSX size) has the PS5 die at smaller than the XSX, again in line with a 36-40 CU count.
3. The PS5 dev kit leak that came out before Github leaks had the PS5 at 9.2 tflops.
4. Komanchi and RoGame getting specs from data mining showing the PS5 having a 36CU GPU.
5. Github showing a 36 CU GPU for PS5.
6. The BOM cost for PS5 being cheaper than the XSX in estimates.

On the other hand we have insiders that have been wrong on as many things as right.

This isn't to say that there is no way PS5 doesn't get revealed as a 52 CU 12.x tflops GPU, that's well and truly possible.
It's not a Github or die thing, just a collection of things that point to a GPU that size.

Basically when Sony reveal there are going to be tears on one side or the other.
Hopefully they are identical, and devs can push both of them to the max.

Click to shrink...

So, why were we getting rumors of the PS5 dev kits were ahead of the Series X then? Also, the Devs being excited about the PS5 specs? I could understand if it were coming out last year but 8TF releasing alongside of the impressive Series X makes no sense to me. Also it should be 399 off rip.

 

[Hellshy]

So the things that keep me of the opinion that the PS5 will be between 36 and 40 Cu's.
1. The original XSX leak from Reddit which was 100% right about not only XSX but Lockhart, also had the PS5 specs at 8tflops (inline with that CU count).
2. The Taiwanese dude that leaked the die sizes for XSX and PS5 (nailed the XSX size) has the PS5 die at smaller than the XSX, again in line with a 36-40 CU count.
3. The PS5 dev kit leak that came out before Github leaks had the PS5 at 9.2 tflops.
4. Komanchi and RoGame getting specs from data mining showing the PS5 having a 36CU GPU.
5. Github showing a 36 CU GPU for PS5.
6. The BOM cost for PS5 being cheaper than the XSX in estimates.

On the other hand we have insiders that have been wrong on as many things as right.

This isn't to say that there is no way PS5 doesn't get revealed as a 52 CU 12.x tflops GPU, that's well and truly possible.
It's not a Github or die thing, just a collection of things that point to a GPU that size.

Basically when Sony reveal there are going to be tears on one side or the other.
Hopefully they are identical, and devs can push both of them to the max.

Click to shrink...

As far as point 2 goes , didnt he actually say the die size was 350mm² ? That means he was actually off by slightly more then 10mm². That could very well just have been a guess.

 

[Marble]

so... how worried should sony be right now?

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About what exactly? Switch is currently outselling both Xbox One and PS4 and it's the weakest console.

Sony will be putting out HZD2, God of War 2, Spider-Man 2 and 100 million+ people can play their entire PS4 (which is the second best selling home console in history, FYI) library on day one.

Some people really have no idea what priveliged position Sony is in. They will easily outsell everything again if they keep doing what they do.

 

[Expy]

As far as point 2 goes , didnt he actually say the die size was 350mm² ? That means he was actually off by slightly more then 10mm². That could very well just have been a guess.

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"Close enough" seems to be the motto for the Github data. Getting the die size wrong is pretty much a pure guess.

 

[Isayas]

About what exactly? Switch is currently outselling both Xbox One and PS4 and it's the weakest console.

Sony will be putting out HZD2, God of War 2, Spider-Man 2 and 100 million+ people can play their entire PS4 (which is the second best selling home console in history, FYI) library on day one.

Some people really have no idea what priveliged position Sony is in. They will easily outsell everything again if they keep doing what they do.

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Don't get me wrong, I do agree on what Aegon states about it being weaker; I just don't care. I have a PC and I just love PS ecosystem and exclusives for about 21 years now. It just works for me.

 

[chris 1515]

This seems pretty far off topic. In practice, I don't buy consoles based on their specs but rather based on the games that are coming to them. I typically own multiple consoles each generation, and over the last three generations Sony has more than earned my trust that they'll be putting out amazing titles. Anyone else who wants to sell me a console just needs to deliver what I'm looking for on a regular basis to earn my business. I'll certainly give them all a fair evaluation.

Today, though, the one I'm certain about is the PS5. The specs are interesting, but very much secondary.

Click to shrink...

The same 9 or 13 Tflops does not matter game first. 399 or 499 euros is ok. If PS5 is 599 euros I would maybe wait.

 

[Imitation Of Life]

So the things that keep me of the opinion that the PS5 will be between 36 and 40 Cu's.
1. The original XSX leak from Reddit which was 100% right about not only XSX but Lockhart, also had the PS5 specs at 8tflops (inline with that CU count).
2. The Taiwanese dude that leaked the die sizes for XSX and PS5 (nailed the XSX size) has the PS5 die at smaller than the XSX, again in line with a 36-40 CU count.
3. The PS5 dev kit leak that came out before Github leaks had the PS5 at 9.2 tflops.
4. Komanchi and RoGame getting specs from data mining showing the PS5 having a 36CU GPU.
5. Github showing a 36 CU GPU for PS5.
6. The BOM cost for PS5 being cheaper than the XSX in estimates.

On the other hand we have insiders that have been wrong on as many things as right.

This isn't to say that there is no way PS5 doesn't get revealed as a 52 CU 12.x tflops GPU, that's well and truly possible.
It's not a Github or die thing, just a collection of things that point to a GPU that size.

Basically when Sony reveal there are going to be tears on one side or the other.
Hopefully they are identical, and devs can push both of them to the max.

Click to shrink...

That would be sad. If I was planning to buy XSX only I would be ecstatic right now and not care what Sony reveals weaker or stronger.