PSA: Multiple HDMI 2.1 Compatible AV Receivers May Have a Bug in their HDMI 2.1 Chip That Causes a Black Screen for High-Bandwidth Content

[ekim]

UPDATE:
Sound United (they own Marantz and Denon) put out an official statement (source:https://www.audioholics.com/news/bug-in-hdmi-2.1-chipsets)

Some new gaming source devices that support 4K/120Hz output may not work fully with Denon (or Marantz) 8K AVRs. You may discover this incompatibility issue due to a HDMI chipset mismatch between the devices. When the affected system is connected to the AVR via 8K HDMI input and set to output at 4K/120Hz, and the AVR's 4K Signal Format option is set to "8K Enhanced," you may not see the system's source video on their display, and may not hear the system's source audio processed through the AVR. This problem is only present when a display that supports 4K/120Hz is used.

We are currently investigating the issue further and will offer a permanent solution at a later date. Meanwhile, we would like to provide a couple workarounds to prevent the issue in its current state:

• You can connect the system to the display directly via HDMI and use the display's ARC/eARC functionality to feed the native audio back to the AVR using the connected HDMI cable between the AVR and display. This will allow users to decode the native audio format sent from the source. With this method, the display's CEC/ARC option must be enabled as well as the AVR's HDMI Control and/or the AVR's ARC option. In the AVR, this option is located within the GUI under "Video – HDMI Setup."
• Another workaround is to leave or change the source's video output to 4K/60Hz instead of 4K/120Hz until a permanent solution is available. This will ensure reliable communication between the source, the AVR and the display. The source's default is set to output at 4K/60Hz, so if no change was initiated out of the box, then nothing further needs to be done.

We apologize for this inconvenience and we are currently working tirelessly to release a permanent solution so you can enjoy the 4K/120Hz experience using the latest sources with your AVR. We will have an update soon regarding the timeline of a permanent solution. We appreciate your patience.

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Yamaha also stated:

As we test and explore new gaming system capabilities and the latest HDMI specifications, we will provide guidance on our website to help new and future customers with the compatibility of our latest AV receivers. We will certainly provide you with an update in the near-term.

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So basically they are confirming the issue.

Original post starts here:
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The bug was found by the German magazine c't (they belong to heise.de)

Bug in HDMI-2.1-Chips: AV-Receiver, Next-Gen-Konsole und Grafikkarten betroffen

Das Computermagazin c’t hat eine folgenschwere Panne eines Chipherstellers bei der Umsetzung der neuen HDMI-2.1-Spezifikation aufgedeckt.

www.heise.de

According to them, receivers from Denon, Marantz and Yamaha are affected.

The issue is that content at high bandwidth (8K/60, 4K/120/HDR) will cause a black screen when passing through the receiver.
The bug is located inside the used HDMI 2.1 chip from Panasonic Solutions and is caused by a wrong implementation of the "Fixed Rate Link" transmission of data.
Also Sony and Onkyo/Pioneer have bought chips from them.

They were able to reproduce the issue with their Xbox Series X unit playing Dirt 5 at 4K/120/HDR.
They had the same issue with an Nvidia RTX 3080 at the same settings.

An English translation of the original article can be found here:

Bug in HDMI 2.1 chips: AV receivers, next-gen consoles and graphics cards affected | Marijuanapy The World News

After the market launch of HDMI 2.1 dragged on for years, Denon, Marantz and Yamaha presented the first audio / video receivers with the new version of the audio / video interface in the past few months - just in time for the launch of the next-generation Xbox Series consoles from Microsoft and...

marijuanapy.com

--
Confirmation on reddit from an X2700h owner:
Reddit comment

 

[platocplx]

Yeah this is def why I think on the reciever side def have to wait a year to buy one, maybe it can be fixed via firmware? (Also I wouldn't even buy these yet anyway they only have 1 HDMI 2.1 input)

 

[The Pet of the Month]

Oof, it seems like everytime I upgrade my hardware to take advantage of all these new features, things seem to keep breaking -_-

Thanks for the heads up! I'll stick to the lower end Yamaha VRR receiver for now.

 

[Flounder]

Thanks for the heads up OP. Was going to buy the Yamaha RX-V6A next week but will wait for a bit.

 

[shinken]

Yeah this is def why I think on the reciever side def have to wait a year to buy one, maybe it can be fixed via firmware?

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According to the article, it can't be fixed with a firmware update and the delivery for error-free replacement chips will happen around the middle of next year for some models.

 

[ekim]

Yeah this is def why I think on the reciever side def have to wait a year to buy one, maybe it can be fixed via firmware?

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The original article of the magazine is not publicly available (can be bought tho) which might include some workarounds. Not sure.

 

[platocplx]

According to the article, it can't be fixed with a firmware update and the delivery for error-free replacement chips will happen around the middle of next year for some models.

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Ah, also updated my post. I wouldnt even buy any Of these having 1 HDMI 2.1 port is abysmal to me.

The original article of the magazine is not publicly available (can be bought tho) which might include some workarounds. Not sure.

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gotcha yeah. it sounds like it could be fixable. But honestly for the price they are asking for 1 port I'd pass on most of these receivers.

 

[Deleted member 44371]

this is huge.

 

[canderous]

Denon, Marantz and Yamaha

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Also Sony and Onkyo/Pioneer have bought chips from them.

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So basically all of them.

And the translated article says it cannot be fixed in a firmware update, meaning it's a hardware issue.

This is gonna be bad. Panasonic done fucked up.

 

[Darknight]

Oof, it seems like everytime I upgrade my hardware to take advantage of all these new features, things seem to keep breaking -_-

Thanks for the heads up! I'll stick to the lower end Yamaha VRR receiver for now.

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It's because there wasn't content/devices to take advantage of them to actually test if they worked. People should always follow the content that supports it and not the tech.

 

[ekim]

Confirmation on reddit from an X2700h owner:
Reddit comment

 

[Butch]

It's because there wasn't content/devices to take advantage of them to actually test if they worked. People should always follow the content that supports it and not the tech.

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I mean, what you are saying it's good advise of course, but I don't think it's wrong for people to assume that these companies actually tested all of this scenarios several times.

 

[Aswitch]

Def holding out on getting a new receiver, Passthrough will hold me over for now.

 

[Deleted member 8468]

Yeah I have a Sony soundbar that has occasional problems, might be related. I solved it by just running HDMI to the TV and optical to the soundbar.

 

[Mit-]

Couldn't even do HDR through my Denon receiver. For any complex high bandwidth content I also just started going straight to my TV and running HRC to soundbar. However this brought about further complications getting the full quality audio signal to the receiver.

Receiver companies don't care about video technology and TV companies don't care about sound technology and wanting both has been a headache ever since PS3/360.

Put me in the category of just dealing with workaround BS for another year or two until I'm actually confident any of these companies have figured out all the new video tech, and then I'll buy a new receiver.

 

[Darknight]

I mean, what you are saying it's good advise of course, but I don't think it's wrong for people to assume that these companies actually tested all of this scenarios several times.

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There's been a pattern of this though. Look at all the promised firmware updates for future functionality and sometimes they don't pan out as promised. Most recently we've had the issue with the 3080 not working and the Sony X900H not allowing Dolby Vision at the same time as HDMI 2.1 functionality. Sometimes test examples aren't good enough because they don't cover the range of how it will interact with various devices. It might work in a test environment but that's limited compared to real devices they don't have access to because it's all cutting edge. I think the reality is, there's not enough that they can test with to verify that things are working right now.

 

[Lowrys]

Thanks for the heads up! I'll stick to the lower end Yamaha VRR receiver for now.

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You mean the RX-V4A? Is that confirmed not to be affected?

 

[The Pet of the Month]

You mean the RX-V4A? Is that confirmed not to be affected?

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AFAIK the rx-v4a isn't capable of 120Hz,sl so it shouldn't be. Then again the receiver still hasn't been updated to support ALLM and VRR.

It's because there wasn't content/devices to take advantage of them to actually test if they worked. People should always follow the content that supports it and not the tech.

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That and a lot of us need to learn patience cuz we keep upgrading our stuff over the slightest new feature lol

 

[platocplx]

It's because there wasn't content/devices to take advantage of them to actually test if they worked. People should always follow the content that supports it and not the tech.

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Yeah like buying an 8k tv. Wont be good content for years lol. This Alos happened to be when I bought my tv at least it got updated to support HDR. But yeah I'm not buying a HDMI 2.1 device until next year.

 

[Red XIII]

so a recall is coming than?

guess i'll upgrade my onkyo tx nr575 in a year or two just to safe.

 

[Piccoro]

Yeah like buying an 8k tv. Wont be good content for years lol.

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Doesn't YouTube have some 8K videos?
Using the YouTube app on the new consoles we could test if 8K works fine.

 

[Darknight]

This really puts a big dent in my upgrade plans next year. I'm not sure what I'm going to do now since I can't upgrade my TV until I can upgrade my receiver. It sounds like receivers are going to be a no go in 2021 at this rate. This has been a bigger mess than I expected.

 

[platocplx]

Doesn't YouTube have some 8K videos?
Using the YouTube app on the new consoles we could test if 8K works fine.

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Would need direct media vs just a youtube video still has some compression imo. But even then the amount of 8k content is so sparse it probally will be at least a decade.

 

[Jmdajr]

Stuck with 2.0.
Hope I can get an eARC TV one day

 

[killa2max]

Oof, this sucks. I wonder if the Yamaha RX-V6A has this issue, as that was the receiver I was planning to pick up sometime in the near future.

 

[Darknight]

Oof, this sucks. I wonder if the Yamaha RX-V6A has this issue, as that was the receiver I was planning to pick up sometime in the near future.

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It says Yamaha is affected too. Pretty much all receivers are at this point.

 

[Tarnpanzer]

Oof, this sucks. I wonder if the Yamaha RX-V6A has this issue, as that was the receiver I was planning to pick up sometime in the near future.

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Same.

But the FW-Update which actually activates the 2.1-ports will come out in december. I would wait until then.

 

[JFoul]

I'm probably going to wait another year to upgrade my TV and receiver. I kind of want ATSC 3.0 anyways, so hopefully its in the whole LG C11 line.

 

[killa2max]

Same.

But the FW-Update which actually activates the 2.1-ports will come out in december. I would wait until then.

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Yea, I'm definitely going to be waiting at this point. This is a huge bummer for those who've purchased 2.1 receivers already. Hopefully it's an issue that can be fixed with a firmware update, but that looks unlikely based on these early reports. Hopefully these companies will recall the receivers and make things right if that's the case.

 

[NotSmartEnough]

Well that's unfortunate timing. I have literally just returned from my local AV shop with a new Denon X4700H.

I don't upgrade kit very often (my current receiver is a Yamaha AX763 that doesn't even passthrough 4k or have ARC) and HDMI 2.1 was only part of the reason for buying a new AVR.

 

[Dezzy]

So are we safe with the Sharc eArc device? I just ordered one.

 

[boredandlazy]

Confirmation on reddit from an X2700h owner:
Reddit comment

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Eek...

Well, I guess we'll see how I go when I get my receiver.

 

[killa2max]

So are we safe with the Sharc eArc device? I just ordered one.

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Yes that will not cause you any issues. This is only for many (all?) new HDMI 2.1 compatible receivers.

 

[GrimGrinningGuy]

Receiver companies don't care about video technology and TV companies don't care about sound technology and wanting both has been a headache ever since PS3/360.

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This is 1000 percent true ugggggg

 

[NotSmartEnough]

The reddit post just got updated with this nugget of info:

Little update: It seems the problem is specific to XBOX Series X and NVIDIA graphicscards. PS5 should work, but is not proven.

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[GrimGrinningGuy]

Well that's unfortunate timing. I have literally just returned from my local AV shop with a new Denon X4700H.

I don't upgrade kit very often (my current receiver is a Yamaha AX763 that doesn't even passthrough 4k or have ARC) and HDMI 2.1 was only part of the reason for buying a new AVR.

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Time to rerun it and get a sharc to hold you over

 

[gabdeg]

Thank god I just switched to a soundbar with EARC instead of still waiting for a HDMI 2.1 receiver worth a shit.

 

[Heynongman!]

The reddit post just got updated with this nugget of info:

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I don't understand how this could be the case, high bandwidth is high bandwidth, no?

 

[NotSmartEnough]

I don't understand how this could be the case, high bandwidth is high bandwidth, no?

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Dunno, sorry. I'm still reading thru the thread. There was this comment further down:

They are saying that their industry sources claim to have tested this on PS5 successfully, but the editors could not verify that claim by testing it themselves.

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[Lkr]

Stuck with 2.0.
Hope I can get an eARC TV one day

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eARC was supposed to be added in a firmware update for my receiver but I've never seen it work. I wouldn't be surprised if the TV was the issue though

 

[tokkun]

It's because there wasn't content/devices to take advantage of them to actually test if they worked. People should always follow the content that supports it and not the tech.

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If things had been handled better, they wouldn't need a bunch of different devices to test with. That is kind of the main point of having the HDMI standard. If your device passes the standard compliance tests, it should work with other compliant devices.

These compatibility issues are just another sign of the mess that the HDMI Forum made of HDMI 2.1, with the extended delays in finalizing the spec / compliance tests, as well as allowing too many features to be optional making it hard to test all combinations.

 

[immortal-joe]

It's official: eARC is now a necessity for console gamers using surround sound.

 

[Godai]

So what is the best alternative here, I have a X900H coming and now I'm unsure how to get it all hooked up to my surround system.

 

[Darknight]

Time to rerun it and get a sharc to hold you over

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The problem is sharc really doesn't fit within my system with a massive rewiring of everything. It would be really painful to redesign the wiring of my setup to flow all to the TV instead of the receiver and only for a temporary solution until these companies get their shit together.

If things had been handled better, they wouldn't need a bunch of different devices to test with. That is kind of the main point of having the HDMI standard. If your device passes the standard compliance tests, it should work with other compliant devices.

These compatibility issues are just another sign of the mess that the HDMI Forum made of HDMI 2.1, with the extended delays in finalizing the spec / compliance tests, as well as allowing too many features to be optional making it hard to test all combinations.

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I agree. This whole transition has been a mess. It's amazing how long it has taken and still is messed up. Plus given how we've seen things go so far, it's why people should wait and see if things are working or not. The whole 3080 situation should have been a wake up call for people. That of course didn't help anyone who bought before that, but nobody should be buying now without knowing if things work or not.

It's official: eARC is now a necessity for console gamers using surround sound.

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The problem with eARC is with how some companies are being cheap and not allowing all audio formats to pass through. Like LG dropped the ability to pass DTS/DTS-HD/DTS:X over eARC. That shit is annoying.

 

[Stooge]

Fuck this shit. I JUST bought the fucking Denon (X3700H) for Series X content. I'm assuming this can't be fixed with a firmware update? And can I get my $ back?

I cant run eARC because my entertainment center is in a cabinet 20 feet from my TV with a wire running through the wall to the TV.

 

[PaulLFC]

I decided to wait after seeing not all HDMI ports were HDMI 2.1, at least for Denon. I can wait a year or two to upgrade, my TV doesn't do 120Hz anyway.

 

[nullref]

That sucks. I was interested in the new Yamahas (though only once the firmware that enables all HDMI 2.1 features had been delivered and tested), but looks like I'll want to wait another year for this stuff to shake out.

 

[GrimGrinningGuy]

The problem is sharc really doesn't fit within my system with a massive rewiring of everything. It would be really painful to redesign the wiring of my setup to flow all to the TV instead of the receiver and only for a temporary solution until these companies get their shit together.

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Yep it blows. Why can't they get it right?

 

[Krakatoa]

That's why I am going to use my receiver as EARC and plug my consoles straight into my TV.

 

[Darknight]

Yep it blows. Why can't they get it right?

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Ya, the more this settles in, the more annoyed I'm getting at it. I had planned on upgrading this year, but with receivers being limited to 1 HDMI 2.1 port or being stuck behind a firmware update, I decided to push my upgrade until next year. Now it's sounding like receivers might be screwed for next year too. Pioneer was going to be the first receiver I looked at but it sounds like they're using this chip too. I also was holding out for a Sony OLED with HDMI 2.1 and now I'm wondering what issues they're going to have with their first HDMI 2.1 OLED. I hate the direction LG is going with dropping DTS too which means you can't pass it over eARC. Everything just seems like such a mess now.