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Quantic Dream lost a court case regarding harassment claims (+ an update on the other cases)

Maxime

Maxime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,987
Initially posted on "Current and former Quantic Dream employees denounce working conditions, toxic atmosphere" (I invite you to read OP if you're out of the loop), made into a new thread following Kenzodielocke 's suggestion.

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Rough translation (FR -> EN translations regarding the law are hard yo)

@Quantic_Dream just lost a labor court suit against one of the employees at the heart of the photomontage affair from the beginning of the year. The act of breaking the employment contract was requalified as a dismissal without any real and serious cause. The studio can appeal
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Also, in the following tweets, more details about the others lawsuits currently going on:

- 2 former employees were dismissed in January of their requalification of dismissal without any real and serious cause. One of them appealed against the decision.

- 1 procedure still in the labor court with a verdict in the coming months

- 1 file in a tiebreak situation [Note: Not 100% on this one, but I think it's a case of inconclusive decisions issued by the court, forcing a judge has to make the final call]

- 2 lawsuits from Quantic Dream against Mediapart and Le Monde for defamation (I have no information on advancement) [Note: First hearing was mid-June]
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Edit: Eurogamer | Detroit, Heavy Rain developer Quantic Dream loses employment court case
 
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ghostcrew

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
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Oct 27, 2017
30,367
So did they fire some of the people involved in the complaints? Is that what these cases are about? Unfair dismissal?
 
Kuldar

Kuldar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,448
BY2K said:
Wait, they fired the one who complained about the photoshop'd pictures?
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No. The person quitted his job and then sued Quantic Dreams.
The labor courts ruled that in this case, the act of breaking the contract (in other words, the employee left by attributing the wrong of his departure to the employer), was to be considered as dismissal. This give that person access to unemployment benefits.
 
OP
OP
Maxime

Maxime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,987
BY2K said:
Wait, they fired the one who complained about the photoshop'd pictures?
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From Mediapart's article (sorry for the quick and dirty translation):

At the request of the members of the IT team, deeply hurt [by the targeted photoshops], Quantic Dream accepts to engage a mediation procedure, then agrees for contractual termination for each of the members of the team. But the procedure is put to an end [by QD] and, on April 25, when the head of IT receives a summons to an interview prior to his dismissal for misconduct due to his "professional shortcomings and unacceptable behavior" and is finally laid off. It is this letter that led all members of the service, already in sick leave or on vacation, to leave permanently the company.
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ghostcrew

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,367
Kuldar said:
No. The person quitted his job due to the harrasment and then sued Quantic Dreams.
The labor courts ruled that in this case, the act of breaking the contract (in other words, the employee left by attributing the wrong of his departure to the employer), was to be considered as dismissal. This give that person access to unemployment benefits.
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Gotcha, thanks for the clarification!
 
BY2K

BY2K

Membero Americo
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,684
Québec, Canada
Kuldar said:
No. The person quitted his job and then sued Quantic Dreams.
The labor courts ruled that in this case, the act of breaking the contract (in other words, the employee left by attributing the wrong of his departure to the employer), was to be considered as dismissal. This give that person access to unemployment benefits.
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Ooooh, ok ok.
 
ghostcrew

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,367
- 2 lawsuits from Quantic Dream against Mediapart and Le Monde for defamation (I have no information on advancement) [Note: First hearing was mid-June]
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This one's gonna be the real interesting one. Will the courts side with the press or with the game devs? Very interested to see the result.
 
L Thammy

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,050
I feel like I'm still not reading this right. Does this mean anything for validity of the reports against the atmosphere at Quantic Dreams?
 
Kuldar

Kuldar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,448
ghostcrew said:
That's what I'm thinking. It's baffling to me that a game dev would go aggressively against the media for reporting on stories coming from devs at the studio. Madness.
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In France it's a classical tactic. When a public person or a company is painted in a bad way by an article in a journal, sometimes they will sue for defamation that journal. They just need the PR benefit of saying it's wrong and that they are suing the journal. Most people won't remember to check if the case was dismissed or not.
 
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Toumari

Toumari

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,305
England
MrConbon210 said:
Nah. Worst they have to pay the people they fired. QD made bank off of Detroit. They're good.
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That's my feelings towards this as well. I don't think this means the end of QD because they lost a court-case against an individual.

The timing of getting 2 QD games back-to-back from PS+ is intriguing to say the least.

The question now is whether Sony publish their next game, or drop all association.
 
ghostcrew

ghostcrew

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Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,367
L Thammy said:
I feel like I'm still not reading this right. Does this mean anything for validity of the reports against the atmosphere at Quantic Dreams?
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I don't think it specifically does yet. If I'm understanding it right it's basically the courts saying 'yes you folks that quit the studio after this went down didn't leave for no reason'. If they'd just quit out of the blue they wouldn't be entitled to unemployment benefits. If there's a reason to quit, then that is overturned. It was overturned for one of the people it sounds like?
 

Deleted member 2809

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Oct 25, 2017
25,478
"if they sue it must mean they're innocent !"
I remember when qd stans were shitting on the papers publishing the articles.
 
OP
OP
Maxime

Maxime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,987
ghostcrew said:
That's what I'm thinking. It's baffling to me that a game dev would go aggressively against the media for reporting on stories coming from devs at the studio. Madness.
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Waypoint and Kotaku talked about it at large in a bunch of podcasts but, in the case of QD, for them, it clearly had two benefits:

- They shield themselves from the accusations by basically waving the "we're not allowed to talk about it, there is a procedure going on" card everytime a journalists asked the question (I saw it in an interview with French outlet LesNumeriques for example);

- Sending a clear message to other journalists: "You put your nose in our business, we'll sue" (they sent threats of pursuing for defamation Gamekult just for reporting on the story). Now many outlets will think twice before doing papers on the company ("Is it worth the risk?").

Of course, there is the possibility that QD's management truly believes they're innocent and this is some kind of "smear campaign" (as if Mediapart or fucking Le Monde had time ans resources to waste to throw random shades to a video game company), but this remains a really toxic and dangerous move from the company IMO.
 

Ebtesam

Self-Requested Ban
Member
Apr 1, 2018
4,638
Toumari said:
That's my feelings towards this as well. I don't think this means the end of QD because they lost a court-case against an individual.

The timing of getting 2 QD games back-to-back from PS+ is intriguing to say the least.

The question now is whether Sony publish their next game, or drop all association.
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they won't close that for Sure but their reputation won't be good to the public
 
hydrophilic attack

hydrophilic attack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
b-b-b-b-b-but quantic dream was clearly innocent and le monde was spreading FAKE NEWS
Kuldar said:
In France it's a classical tactic. When a public person or a company is painted in a bad way by an article in a journal, sometimes they will sue for defamation that journal. They just need the PR benefit of saying it's wrong and that they are suing the journal. Most people won't remember to check if the case was dismissed or not.
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that tactic worked on a lot of people here
 

VirtuaRacer

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
542
This needs some clarification. Was the case directly about the (alleged) harassment, or about what happened afterward - contract termination/walking away from the job? The headline makes it sound like the former.
 
L Thammy

L Thammy

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Oct 25, 2017
50,050
VirtuaRacer said:
This needs some clarification. Was the case directly about the (alleged) harassment, or about what happened afterward - contract termination/walking away from the job? The headline makes it sound like the former.
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The explanations in this thread help:
Kuldar said:
No. The person quitted his job and then sued Quantic Dreams.
The labor courts ruled that in this case, the act of breaking the contract (in other words, the employee left by attributing the wrong of his departure to the employer), was to be considered as dismissal. This give that person access to unemployment benefits.
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ghostcrew said:
I don't think it specifically does yet. If I'm understanding it right it's basically the courts saying 'yes you folks that quit the studio after this went down didn't leave for no reason'. If they'd just quit out of the blue they wouldn't be entitled to unemployment benefits. If there's a reason to quit, then that is overturned. It was overturned for one of the people it sounds like?
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casiopao

casiopao

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,044
famikon said:
That's the difference between EU and other regions. For example, Konami would be closed by now if it was a French company.
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Lol. U need to do this pivot for Konami to protect your beloved your company huh.^_^ Guess what? At least Konami never F up even worst than QD here right now lol.
 
casiopao

casiopao

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,044
famikon said:
This is what you basically do in other threads. And in the post above, to be specific.
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Lol. You are the one who drag other company name here lol. I am just posting how i am shocked that QD had so many case on the run atm when i only remember one huge case against News Media. Again. If you can't comment anything without pulling other company card, it is better to just ignore my post lol.
 
The Spoony Hou

The Spoony Hou

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,932
Brazil
Kuldar said:
In France it's a classical tactic. When a public person or a company is painted in a bad way by an article in a journal, sometimes they will sue for defamation that journal. They just need the PR benefit of saying it's wrong and that they are suing the journal. Most people won't remember to check if the case was dismissed or not.
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And people actually fall for that?
 
Nintendo

Nintendo

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Oct 27, 2017
13,383
Toumari said:
That's my feelings towards this as well. I don't think this means the end of QD because they lost a court-case against an individual.

The timing of getting 2 QD games back-to-back from PS+ is intriguing to say the least.

The question now is whether Sony publish their next game, or drop all association.
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Sony's contract has ended right? wasn't it for 3 games only?
 

Deleted member 2145

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MrConbon210 said:
Nah. Worst they have to pay the people they fired. QD made bank off of Detroit. They're good.
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haven't we heard from some of our insiders that they did not make bank of off Detroit? I believe Benji and ZHuge have said as much, that it might have sold well but it also had a larger budget so it didn't do as well as the numbers suggest
 
Adree

Adree

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Oct 25, 2017
4,072
Who knew a giant wall of your employees photoshopped onto porn actresses and nazis was unwise?
 
Adree

Adree

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Oct 25, 2017
4,072
galv said:
Jesus Christ. This is actually something that happened at QD?
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These reports variously accused Quantic Dream leaders David Cage and Guillaume de Fondaumière of inappropriate behaviour, overworking staff and colluding in - or at least turning a blind eye to - a schoolboy culture involving sexist and racist jokes. Canard PC's report [NSFW] includes examples of this - in montages of staff member's faces Photoshopped onto those of Nazi soldiers and nude porn stars which were apparently posted up around the studio workplace.
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Deleted member 5535

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And people insist to say that development companies are perfect and no problems will appear because there's devs in high positions. Here it's just one more example that publishers aren't exactly the problem but management of the own studio
 
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