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Detail

Member
Dec 30, 2018
2,947


https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/bcsou4/randy_pitchford_explains_his_support_for_egs/

Some quotes :

When we look back at Steam in five or ten years, it may look like a dying store and other, competitive stores, will be the place to be.

The competitive store that happens to be the leader in 10 years may not be Epic's store, but it probably won't be Valve's and Epic's moves right now are opening the door and paving the way for a vibrant competitive economy. Competition in stores is going to be absolutely best for consumers and probably good for developers and publishers as well. The stores that tend to win are the stores that offer the best to their customers. It's very difficult for customer interest to be king with one store. One may look at other stores, like Origin or U-Play. Those aren't real competitors to Steam. A competitor to Steam needs to have an installed base and be sufficiently neutral in alignment so that all publishers and developers who support the store can trust a fair economy. That's just not possible with direct stores that are controlled by publishing interests. It's also not going to come from adjacent services that have other priorities (like Discord, for example). Epic has credibility here because they have been supplying engine technology to the industry for over 20 years and we have all come to be able to trust and rely upon Epic's fair play and good will.


Also, the way the company is organized and managed is really important to this calculus as well. Valve is a private company and, to the best that we can see, a huge amount of the value that Valve has generated has been used to enrich the handful of people who own and manage the company. There's nothing wrong with that, BTW! My business is private, too! Epic's business, until recently, was private and closely held. It's still private, but not as closely held as before. This is important to consider... Every time Valve makes a dollar, they have to make a decision on whether to put in their own pockets or to reinvest it into technology (or whatever). Valve has made significant investments into technology, and should be applauded for the resultant innovations. But they have also taken a significant amount of value off the table and, when they've reinvested, they've tended to put it to a lot of other activities besides the store that is generating all of the revenue. They've been able to do this because they haven't had to worry about it. There has been no viable competitor to Steam. They have had no external force sufficient to challenge their revenue share and no external force sufficient to motivate a sufficient reinvestment of revenue

The faster Valve can maneuver, the longer it can stay ahead of Epic on features. But, if I were to bet on this (and remember I've got a pretty good seat with a great view of this competition), Epic will inevitably surpass Valve on features and quality of service. Epic is differently setup from Valve right now. Epic's shareholders are *very* motivated not to take chips off the table, so to speak, but to reinvest those shares into the company. They have an incredible valuation right now, but they are motivated to increase it. And they have the resources to really make some big plays towards that.

Epic has spent the last decade building an engine (no pun intended) that allows them to grow and deploy technology at an ever increasing pace. That they have decided to invest SIGNIFICANT amounts of the money they have made from Fortnite into the creation of a store to create a real competitive landscape is, frankly, a GIFT to customers and developers and publishers. ALL OF US WILL BENEFIT from this competition.

During the competition, there will be some difficulties and set backs and shit that doesn't go right - that's how it goes. But, ultimately, we're going to be in incredible shape no matter which store you prefer. Steam will have no choice but to either give up, lose or to get better faster than ever before. This is good for Steam customers, developers and publishers. Because Valve is pretty damn good with some awesome talent, I do not expect them to give up or to lose. They'll fight for it. And they'll hang on. There's even a chance they come out on top. Whatever the case, customers, developers and publishers are going to be better off. Meanwhile, Epic is the forcing function that is going to make this all happen. It's really incredible, but they are the only guys who can really come along to disrupt Steam's monopoly and help all this get fixed. They will bring balance to the force (yeah, Star Wars shit today)


And here we are... It's a year with fewer huge titles than we've seen in years. It's a year where the consoles are at peak life-cycle and PC store fronts are getting rattled. And in a world where EA and ATVI cannot really be the ones to take the risk to help the forcing function happen, Take Two shows some balls and steps up with our game, Borderlands 3, to be the content that catalyzes this moment. Holy shit. What a world. Because, at the end of the day, these kinds of movements in our industry are always precipitated from content. It takes content to move us. It took Half-Life 2 to even get us (not quite) comfortable enough to swallow the Steam pill back in the day.
And so we're going to swallow the Epic Game Store pill with Borderlands 3. And some of you guys are going to hate it and scream bloody murder and you'll even blame me, personally, for it. And you can bitch and moan and brigade and stalk my shit, but at the end of the day when we look back at this moment we'll realize that this was the moment where the digital stores on PC became unmonopolized. And we're all going to look back and see how change happened and how costs for developers and publishers to be on stores went down and how that value was passed on to the customers


TLDR :

- Steam is a monopoly (Randy said this.)

- EGS and Tim Sweeney are here to save us from the evil empire known as Valve because they truly care about consumers. (Paraphrased but essentially what is being said.)

^ calling steam a "monopoly" whilst stating Epic is good for consumers.

- It's all for the good of consumers and if they can't see that they aren't looking long term. (Paraphrased but Randy said both of these things)

- Competition (Was said numerous times.)

- Take two and Randy Pitchford are going to be remembered in the history books as the saviour of PC gaming and Borderlands 3 will be the EGS equivalent of Half Life 2 because they have more "balls" than other companies. (Paraphrased but Randy said this.)

*Edit*

For anybody taking issue with my TLDR, I direct you to this post which summaries it perfectly.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ra...gs-see-staff-post.112218/page-9#post-19972155

There is enough information in this OP for people to come to their own conclusions but my TLDR is just what Randy said in a more blunt fashion and without the PR speak.
 
Last edited:

Rodjer

Self-requested ban.
Member
Jan 28, 2018
4,808
- Take two and Randy Pitchford are going to be remembered in the history books as the saviour of PC gaming and Borderlands 3 will be the EGS equivalent of Half Life 2 because they have more "balls" than other companies.

He can't be serious?
Borderlands 3 is going to launch on Steam in April 2020, they have "balls" for 6 months, they don't have balls to go full exclusivity lol
 

daybreak

Member
Feb 28, 2018
2,415
Epic is differently setup from Valve right now. Epic's shareholders are *very* motivated not to take chips off the table, so to speak, but to reinvest those shares into the company. They have an incredible valuation right now, but they are motivated to increase it. And they have the resources to really make some big plays towards that.

Say what you will about the man, but Randy is absolutely correct about this point. Epic is far more profits-driven than Valve ever has been because of what lies above them in the shareholders, and it wouldn't surprise me to see the Epic Game Store grow by leaps and bounds out of an effort to increase their valuation.

The mire of game exclusivity aside, if Steam is the baseline example that they are attempting to emulate in terms of feature set, I can believe that Epic will be meeting that baseline as quickly as possible.
 

maabus1999

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,977
Say what you will about the man, but Randy is absolutely correct about this point. Epic is far more profits-driven than Valve ever has been because of what lies above them in the shareholders, and it wouldn't surprise me to see the Epic Game Store grow by leaps and bounds out of an effort to increase their valuation.

The mire of game exclusivity aside, if Steam is the baseline example that they are attempting to emulate in terms of feature set, I can believe that Epic will be meeting that baseline as quickly as possible.

Not much profit margin in 12%. I'll let you read those tea leaves.
 

cowbanana

Member
Feb 2, 2018
13,721
a Socialist Utopia
PC gaming doesn't need saving. I don't know where they got this shit from.

For me as a consumer everything Epic is doing is worse for me. Literally. Every. Single. Thing.

Valve <3

They built up PC gaming when Epic was calling me a pirate and going to consoles. Fuck Epic and their cronies like Randy.
 

SigSig

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,777
I mean, I don't give a flying fuck about which locked-down platform with forced client I'm buying from, but this kind of masturbatory talk really puts me off buying your game, Randy. Just tell it like it is, just say "it's more profitable to us". no shame in that.
 

Zelas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,020
But they have also taken a significant amount of value off the table and, when they've reinvested, they've tended to put it to a lot of other activities besides the store that is generating all of the revenue. They've been able to do this because they haven't had to worry about it.
Aint that the truth!
 

Thrill_house

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,627
Lol sure Randy. Steam gone in 10 years? Whew thats a hell of a take. You do you but I won't support EGS.
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
Randy Pitchford is the Zack Snyder of gaming personalities.
 

*Splinter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,088
The way he's trying to describe Valve and Epic as fundamentally different where they're not feels... weird. Reaching at best, disingenuous at worse.

Also he talks about Valve investing money from the store elsewhere... Ok, kinda weird point and he avoided mentioning those investments have brought us the most advanced VR offerings to date... but even accepting this as a negative somehow... Epic have then taken Fortnite money for their store? Why is one ok but the other not?

Bah, just nonsense from top to bottom. I can't find anything to agree with in here
 

Ikuu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,294
"how that value was passed on to the customers "

Borderlands 3 is still £50.
 

maabus1999

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,977
Lol sure Randy. Steam gone in 10 years? Whew thats a hell of a take. You do you but I won't support EGS.
I don't think he really thought about the second order effect if that really came to pass, where the trust in digital store fronts would completely evaporate overnight, including EGS. Steam has a decade plus of investment by people and having that disappear would be devastating to the PC economy, even if people were able to back up every title they ever purchased in some form or fashion.

He should've just stood with "competition is good for change" line and be done with it.
 

AnthonyUK

Member
Nov 6, 2017
53
let me help Randy explain.

giphy.gif
 

Cincaid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
687
Sweden
I'm getting a serious case of déjà vu of when Valve released Half Life 2 and forced everyone who wanted to play it to use Steam. Good times.
 

RedOnePunch

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,628
This really is worthless and I was enjoying a couple of days without hearing about this guy and his thoughts
 

d00d3n

Member
Oct 27, 2017
908
Sweden
Borderlands 3 is probably a game that I would have impulse bought on Steam, but not played enough of to warrant the purchase in the end. It is really nice of Randy P to make this purchasing decision easy for people, saving us money and leaving September mind share for more worthy contenders.
 

Mirk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
892
This feels so much like when MS tried to "save" PC gaming. Fuck outtahere you want my money? Fucking earn it. Quit buying out games and telling me I should be grateful.
 

Hark

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,163
"Steam isn't gonna be big in 10 years! Better put B3 on a different service ASAP!"
 

Yarbskoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,980
And in a world where EA and ATVI cannot really be the ones to take the risk to help the forcing function happen, Take Two shows some balls and steps up with our game, Borderlands 3, to be the content that catalyzes this moment. Holy shit.
Yeah, holy shit. Take Two really took a big risk by accepting that huge sum of cash. Those brave pioneers...
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,185
I mean, sure. Randy is betting on the EGS horse since he got a deal with them. Not really some radical take lol.
 

Thrill_house

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,627
I don't think he really thought about the second order effect if that really came to pass, where the trust in digital store fronts would completely evaporate overnight, including EGS. Steam has a decade plus of investment by people and having that disappear would be devastating to the PC economy, even if people were able to back up every title they ever purchased in some form or fashion.

He should've just stood with "competition is good for change" line and be done with it.

Exactly! I busted out laughing at that one. My dude I have accumulated around 250 games over almost a decade on that service. It has great little perks and all my shit is in one place. They aren't going anywhere and if they did then NO digital purchase would be safe. Shaking my confidence in digi storefronts would be an understatement
 

Jacobson

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,444
As long as EGS's pricing is greater than Steam's for my region, I won't be jumping ship anytime soon.
 

TheMango55

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
5,788
And we're all going to look back and see how change happened and how costs for developers and publishers to be on stores went down and how that value was passed on to the customers

In what way is the value going to be passed to customers? Lower price? No lootboxes?

Because right now it seems like the same game at the same price with fewer features.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,099
It's a whole load of incoherent rambling from Randy. I'm amazed that Sweeney is promoting it.
 

Deleted member 32374

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2017
8,460
"a GIFT to customers and developers"

A business relationship you have with another company should never be called a GIFT lol.

I just skimmed and stopped reading when I saw the above sentence. No need to read further, Randy made his point known.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
I'm getting a serious case of déjà vu of when Valve released Half Life 2 and forced everyone who wanted to play it to use Steam. Good times.

Difference being they developed and owned Half life 2? What does epic own and develop thats not fortnite? They have a exclusive deal with these titles they down't develop or own them thats the big difference.

Valve used steam like Blizzard/Activision use battlenet to distribute the games they internally own/make. If you want to play a blizzard game you get the battlenet launcher. But can still buy your game else where.

Epic so far is being tight on that front.

And I would give them the benefit if they were going the way of how steam developed in it's early days. Just make or own a bunch of studios making games that use the Epic store as their launcher. Since they would develop those games internally, that strengthens their brand just like steam did with all their releases from Valve.

The way they are going it now is just a fast/slimy way of getting content on the store, and its content they don't even make. GOG never tried this shit. They just offered an option for people who dislike DRM. That was their big feature.

And they didn't iterate much on it nor did they have many studios if any making games for them to promote the store. They were offered as just a drm free option.
 

jediyoshi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,126
"The stores that tend to win are the stores that offer the best to their customers."

And this is why I've backed the least featured platform whose main selling point benefits us developers rather than the customer.
 

Yarbskoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,980
In what way is the value going to be passed to customers? Lower price? No lootboxes?

Because right now it seems like the same game at the same price with fewer features.
Don't worry, when Epic is on top, and Valve is the Bargain Bin of PC games, the shareholders will ensure that we the consumers get the most value from our service.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,316
I'm still not buying your game Randy.
As for the rest, keep shilling for your own bag of cash, I'll shill for mine.


I love when the rich and the scammers tell me to not worry as a customer because the wealth will trickle down. Fuck off.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,129
Say what you will about the man, but Randy is absolutely correct about this point. Epic is far more profits-driven than Valve ever has been because of what lies above them in the shareholders, and it wouldn't surprise me to see the Epic Game Store grow by leaps and bounds out of an effort to increase their valuation.

The mire of game exclusivity aside, if Steam is the baseline example that they are attempting to emulate in terms of feature set, I can believe that Epic will be meeting that baseline as quickly as possible.

They don't even have a shopping cart.

A shopping cart.