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OP
OP
Detail

Detail

Member
Dec 30, 2018
2,947
This is just Cliff Blezinki?

https://www.dsogaming.com/news/epic...nd-the-current-battle-between-pc-vs-consoles/

Direct quotes from Tim Sweeney = Cliff Blezinki only said that?

Why is this need to engage in Historical revisionism to defend Epic?

Forgot about this, thanks for reminding me.
man the cringe at the TLDR.
At least will make people read the piece.

As has already been summarised, there is nothing wrong with my TLDR other than me being more blunt than Randy, I am literally saying what he said other than calling Valve Evil.

If you care to tell me what was inaccurate, please do.
 

Astra Planeta

Member
Jan 26, 2018
668
You are comparing Valve making their OWN game on Steam compard to Epic buying third party exclusives, something no one else has actually done on the same scale, as exactly the same.

And that somehow proves that Epic is doing the normal thing?

What kind of twisted ogic is that?

In 2003, it was a huge deal to require always online for a game, especially when dial up was still pretty common. If valve truly was consumer friendly , they would have had a steam version & a cd only version of their game, and people could pick what they want. But valve knew no one would willingly use their launcher if they could just get a CD, just like Epic knows no one will use epic launcher if they can just use steam for the same games.

Valve did what it has to to get ahead, and so is Epic today. A lot changes in 16 years, and exclusives are the only way to compete. Again, I'm not super happy about it, but its hard to argue with their logic for getting their platform off the ground.
 

zashga

Losing is fun
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,192
These sorts of arguments in favor of EGS from developers who've entered exclusivity deals always come across as dishonest when they don't seem willing (or contractually allowed?) to acknowledge that the deal even exists. Like, Take Two didn't decide to publish Borderlands 3 on EGS exclusively because competition is good. They did it because they expect to make more money (sales plus whatever Epic is paying) than they would've made on Steam in that time frame. We can't have the whole conversation, so we're left with guys like Randy pretending to be freedom fighters tearing down a monopoly that doesn't actually exist.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
In 2003, it was a huge deal to require always online for a game, especially when dial up was still pretty common. If valve truly was consumer friendly , they would have had a steam version & a cd only version of their game, and people could pick what they want. But valve knew no one would willingly use their launcher if they could just get a CD, just like Epic knows no one will use epic launcher if they can just use steam for the same games.

Valve did what it has to to get ahead, and so is Epic today. A lot changes in 16 years, and exclusives are the only way to compete. Again, I'm not super happy about it, but its hard to argue with their logic for getting their platform off the ground.

Its actually amazing the insane standards that are now being set to Steam and Valve in order to excuse Epic. This is some absurd double standard that i dont think i have seen in such a argument before.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I can't really stand Randy Pitchford but I agree with him here. Buying exclusives is literally the only way EGS can stand out in the short term. No one would care if they had feature parity with steam (which I'm sure they will in the near future) because steam is the status quo and otherwise, there's no reason to try something different.

I love Steam and it's by far the main launcher I use, but I absolutely want more companies to have skin in the game and compete for my dollar and this is the simplest and best way to get that ball rolling.

This assessment is coming from the premise that PC gamers would not care about epic if it had as many features as steam and wasn't buying exclusives.

Guess what? If epic played the game like that, I would be ecstatic. As usual, I'm not the only one. Many, many of us would welcome a platform that is competing on this front that benefits us.

The idea that the easiest, laziest, most irresponsible route is the only way is completely asinine. There's never been only one way to do anything under the sun.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
This assessment is coming from the premise that PC gamers would not care about epic if it had as many features as steam and wasn't buying exclusives.

Guess what? If epic play the game like that, I would be ecstatic. As usual, I'm not the only one. Many, many of us would welcome hey platform that is competing on this front that benefits us.

The idea that the easiest, laziest, most irresponsible route is the only way is completely asinine. There's never been only one way to do anything under the sun.

Also we don't hold to this standard in other industries, just the gaming one apparently.

Which is curious. Imagine if a new car company said they weren't going to add cup-holders because car manufacturing is a hard industry and they need a break into it, they would get laughed off of wall street.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
Valve did what it has to to get ahead, and so is Epic today. A lot changes in 16 years, and exclusives are the only way to compete. Again, I'm not super happy about it, but its hard to argue with their logic for getting their platform off the ground.
I can't really stand Randy Pitchford but I agree with him here. Buying exclusives is literally the only way EGS can stand out in the short term. No one would care if they had feature parity with steam (which I'm sure they will in the near future) because steam is the status quo and without games you can't get anywhere else, there's no reason to try something different.
Counterpoint:
As someone who doesn't like EGS but still wouldn't think twice before buying a game I'm really looking forward to if it's EGS exclusive, it still feels so weird to have this kind of defense for it.

I didn't need walls of text to convince me to buy on Origin, Uplay, Steam, Nuuvem, GMG or other key sellers. They just offered me prices and services, and I said "sure, why not". It's so off-putting to have this much rationalization around it.

Maybe it could have something to do with the fact that you need a lot more words to convince someone that something that is worse is actually better. Uplay's much better preloading means I'll always prefer to get a Ubisoft game on Uplay if I'm really looking forward to it and want to play it as soon as possible. No need for anyone to tell me just how much better Uplay is for the industry.
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
Absolutely. What company wouldn't be excited about the prospect of having two huge store fronts compete to throw bags of money at them for time exclusivity deals?
The thing is, that's basically already happening with Apple Arcade and Xbox Games Pass, and almost certainly Google's Stadia project. Add in Sony launching a new console, Nintendo wanting to keep their existing momentum and Epic's ongoing landgrab, and it's going to be an extremely lucrative time to be releasing a good looking game.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
I can't really stand Randy Pitchford but I agree with him here. Buying exclusives is literally the only way EGS can stand out in the short term.
This is obviously not true since the EGS has other hooks that no one has complained about. Namely, the 12% cut for devs, ignoring the UE4 fee, and free games.

They also seem to be completely ignoring a pretty classic Steam strategy which is to cross game promotion with their own service games. There's TF2 items for several dozen non-Valve games. Where are the Fornite skins for BL3/Metro/Control/etc?

EGS doesn't even have Epic's back catalogue on it too. I think giving away or heavily discounting your legacy games would probably be a nice draw. People fucking loved UT2K4.
 

Astra Planeta

Member
Jan 26, 2018
668

I am operating under the assumption that Epic wants to truly compete with steam. As good as Uplay is now, its still just a place I buy UBI games, same with Origin for EA games, even though they have plenty of other games. To me at least, steam is still the biggest third party game in town and they are synonymous with PC gaming. Epic wants that crown (again I'm guessing), not just someplace you buy battlefield and sometimes other stuff, like Origin. I am not sure how something listed on Steam/UPLAY/Origin splits sales but I am guessing its something like 80 % steam/10 % uplay/10% origin or something similar. I am not sure where to find actual numbers on that, but it would be interesting to see.

Exclusives get the Epic store name out there and get some of that fortnite crown maybe playing something else,while the rest of their features are added.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
If steam was down, you weren't playing HL2. I remember sitting there with my CD install unable to play, but doom 3 was just fine, that was a traditional exe on a CD. At the time is was a very consumer unfriendly move, it killed the used PC game market as well. It was purely a business decision, and it was right at the time for Valve, not for consumers. I just don't get why Valve gets a pass for anti consumer practices, and people jump down Epic's throat.

Epic has done a lot for PC gaming, not as much as valve, but still quite a bit with the unreal engine and the features they have developed and released. I dont particularly like third party exclusives being bought, but it is probably the only way to get installs and people using the launcher.

That's untrue.

You need internet for the initialization/Activation of the game when it's first installed and unpacked. After that the game can be played in offline mode.

BBC Half life 2 launch issues

Honestly the issues back in 2004 sound like same issues most new launches have. And that was 2004, the first really of it's kind with valve taking all the heat. The invested, they took the risk on their own GAME!

What risk is Epic making? The people who are at risk are the developers if the game doesn't do well in Epic's walled off garden.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Now I want an indie titled "Corporate Shill Simulator" and you see if the public is buying it after each round. The dialogue tree for that game could be gold.

it would be funny if it never affected the sales at all, just slap fights on Twitter. Success is based on how many memes you can make stick and how many of the competitors you can derail.

I want us to be the Gran Turismo of shill simulators. The Real Shilling Simulator.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
I was waiting for someone to make this "they called us pirates" argument.

You seem to take that bit personally as a PC gamer yourself, but you wouldn't verify or read on how that comment/story originated. Please find some articles from back in the day and try to get some context on who said what. There were two people who made the note about piracy and one of them was Cliff Blezinski who people on this forum love to dismiss and not take seriously. But somehow his words are now the word of God in this matter and describes whole of Epic's stance "Epic called us pirates and then left".

As for Epic abandoning PC gaming, may I ask where exactly did they do that? Gears not being on PC was due to Microsoft's involvement. Every other game they made was/has launched on PC...except for the mobile title Infinity Blade.

Epic also helped the indie game development and on PC none the less a TON with Unreal Engine 3...back at a time when developers were struggling to even just start production due to technical issues. They also went above and beyond to provide extra featureset for UE3 that one could only benefit from if they had a PC. The engine UE3 i.e. was originally designed simultaneously with Gears of War 1 so much of the engine was centred around making 30FPS games for Xbox 360..this was long before the pirate comment by Cliff btw..this was back when UT2004 was hit shit and people loved Epic. They could've just left it at that but they made the engine suitable for a PC environment as well despite its original design.

These stories usually circulate because somewhere someone read something written by someone else who read it off an article with clickbaity paraphrased headline. And somehow they become the accepted truth even when it isn't.

I'm not quick to forget the bullshit that Microsoft and Epic spewed back in the mid-2000s. PC gaming was in a fucking dire place around that time, and it really wasn't until 2008 or so when Steam basically singlehandedly revived the market. It's why I'm very skeptical of Microsoft at every turn, even though the current regime seems to be making some decent strides in the PC gaming field. It will be a long time before my skepticism of them completely disappears.
 

Kintaro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,331
Love that Star Wars reference as it was Anakin who was to bring balance to the force. And we know how that turned out.

Was Steam really horrible for consumers? Because he sure is playing up that angle. Its like just admit that the only real driving force for publishers to publish on EGS is the lower cut and moneyhats. Not that there is anything wrong with that, stop trying to make it about the customers.
 

Tart Toter 9K

Member
Oct 25, 2017
397
I can't really stand Randy Pitchford but I agree with him here. Buying exclusives is literally the only way EGS can stand out in the short term.
That's not true at all. If they feel like taking a 12% cut is fair they can do that. Feature parity with Steam, 12% cut and maybe let the customer keep 5-8% in the form of points to spend on other games in the store or v-bucks in Fortnite. Devs still get 80%, which is more than they do today (more if they use UE).
Done! Cheaper store that sells the same products Steam does. Now Valve has to compete with that by offering cheaper games and reducing their cut.

The reason they WON'T do this is because this will lead to actual competition on price, which would be bad for them.
 

Nabs

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,692
I can't really stand Randy Pitchford but I agree with him here. Buying exclusives is literally the only way EGS can stand out in the short term. No one would care if they had feature parity with steam (which I'm sure they will in the near future) because steam is the status quo and otherwise, there's no reason to try something different.

I love Steam and it's by far the main launcher I use, but I absolutely want more companies to have skin in the game and compete for my dollar and this is the simplest and best way to get that ball rolling.

If Epic can't compete on features, they can at least attempt to compete on price. It would be nice way to try to convince people that their cut will trickle down to consumers. Have it be a launch window discount. Use their dollars to market these games via twitch and youtube. Forcing people to use your trash launcher for that one game they really want won't keep them coming back for more games. Valve didn't win by giving away Portal, they won by creating a great platform that kept you coming back for more.
 

voOsh

Member
Apr 5, 2018
1,665
One way I'd be interested to see Epic use their money to gain a foothold in the market is to subsidize the cost of games. If a game is $60 on Steam but $50 on EGS surely they could gain some market share and it would be better for gamers/gaming than exclusivity. In this way everyone gets what they want: gamers retain choice, publishers make more money, and EGS still gets to use cash to acquire users.
 

fracas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,636
If Epic can't compete on features, they can at least attempt to compete on price. It would be nice way to try to convince people that their cut will trickle down to consumers. Have it be a launch window discount. Use their dollars to market these games via twitch and youtube. Forcing people to use your trash launcher for that one game they really want won't keep them coming back for more games. Valve didn't win by giving away Portal, they won by creating a great platform that kept you coming back for more.
I do agree with you there. Metro's the only exclusive that got a discount, right? I think Epic can do a lot more in terms or promotional pricing. It would soften the blow for a lot of people opposed to using the launcher.
 

Astra Planeta

Member
Jan 26, 2018
668
That's untrue.

You need internet for the initialization/Activation of the game when it's first installed and unpacked. After that the game can be played in offline mode.

BBC Half life 2 launch issues

Honestly the issues back in 2004 sound like same issues most new launches have. And that was 2004, the first really of it's kind with valve taking all the heat. The invested, they took the risk on their own GAME!

What risk is Epic making? The people who are at risk are the developers if the game doesn't do well in Epic's walled off garden.

The unpacking/activation is what I was talking about. Sorry if I was unclear. Other games at the time didn't have that issue.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Valve REQUIRED steam for half life 2, which was a big deal at the time, no one liked it. It was down a lot, and was very buggy, it was definitely worse than buying a game on CD or DVD in 2003. Steam super sucked when it came out. Valve did it to lock in people to their platform, and it worked. What epic is doing is the 2019 version of that. Both companies really only care about the bottom line, so really you cant fault one and not the other. I don't like the fact that Epic is doing what its doing, but I can see why they are doing it.

Bullshit. Fortnite is exclusive to the Epic launcher and no one complains about that. That would be the apt comparison to Half-Life 2, not this moneyhatting of 3rd party games.

Besides, recycling tactics deserving of criticism from 15 years ago is not something that deserves our acceptance.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
One way I'd be interested to see Epic use their money to gain a foothold in the market is to subsidize the cost of games. If a game is $60 on Steam but $50 on EGS surely they could gain some market share and it would be better for gamers/gaming than exclusivity. In this way everyone gets what they want: gamers retain choice, publishers make more money, and EGS still gets to use cash to acquire users.

According to my calculations, You are at least eight or nine times smarter than epic.
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
If Epic can't compete on features, they can at least attempt to compete on price. It would be nice way to try to convince people that their cut will trickle down to consumers. Have it be a launch window discount. Use their dollars to market these games via twitch and youtube. Forcing people to use your trash launcher for that one game they really want won't keep them coming back for more games. Valve didn't win by giving away Portal, they won by creating a great platform that kept you coming back for more.
Epic can't really do that, they don't set the price.

And their 12% cut leaves them no space to offer a discount out of their own pocket.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
Epic can't really do that, they don't set the price.

And their 12% cut leaves them no space to offer a discount out of their own pocket.

Then why did Sweeney say that in the future, we will see price cuts on the Epic store?

Either they cant promise that, or they are promising that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
. As good as Uplay is now, its still just a place I buy UBI games, same with Origin for EA games, even though they have plenty of other games. To me at least, steam is still the biggest third party game in town and they are synonymous with PC gaming. Epic wants that crown (again I'm guessing), not just someplace you buy battlefield and sometimes other stuff, like Origin.
Indeed, I don't think it's possible to disagree with that at all.

But again, none of those other stores are trying to be as big as Steam. None of them tried to go after all those thousand of games per day, regular sales, regional payment methods, etc. Steam lacks a competitor, yes, but nobody tried to do a store in the same level as Valve is managing.

And neither is Epic. They are pulling a Discord Store while trying to "take down" Steam with their pro-dev rethoric. The exclusives are lipservice.

They absolutely could compete with incentives for indies, better features (moderated forums, better refund system, integration with other stores, different region lock system, etc) but instead went for the low hanging fruit - exclusives and free games.
 

thebishop

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
2,758
There's no reason for me to put up with this crap. I want PC gaming to be simple, and Valve makes it very simple. These additional services (especially the per-publisher ones) slow down my computer, waste my time, and make it harder to game. Epic is in a position where the *could* offer a competitor to Steam I'd actually want to use, but they're not close to doing it. So for the time being, these exclusive deals just make PC gaming more annoying to me.

This at a time where consoles (already incredibly convenient) are facing a potentially existential threat from cloud gaming, and near-instant gaming on any device. Not sure why PC-oriented companies think this is a good time to start screwing with PC gamers.
 
OP
OP
Detail

Detail

Member
Dec 30, 2018
2,947
If Epic can't compete on features, they can at least attempt to compete on price. It would be nice way to try to convince people that their cut will trickle down to consumers. Have it be a launch window discount. Use their dollars to market these games via twitch and youtube. Forcing people to use your trash launcher for that one game they really want won't keep them coming back for more games. Valve didn't win by giving away Portal, they won by creating a great platform that kept you coming back for more.

They can't compete on price because the 12% cut is unsustainable long term (imo.)

Irrespective of everything though, I don't like storefronts that put more emphasis on pleasing the developers and publishers over the consumer, the developers and publishers simply do not exist without the consumer, therefore this entire approach from EGS is irrelevant.

Their argument that consumers will see the benefit has no evidence to back it up, it's trickle down economics essentially, it relies on the faith that because developers pocket more money that they will suddenly become allergic to wanting to make more and focus on pleasing the consumer with lower prices.

Epic "Hey guys, we only want a 12% cut so you can make more money!"

Publisher " Oh hey, that's a fantastic idea, more money is always good"

Epic "Yeah and since you're saving more money that means you can give consumers lower prices in the long run and make better games!"

Publisher "Or, we could just take the 12% cut, charge even more money than we would on other services for our games because now they are only available to purchase on one store and invest none of that extra profit into making better games because we know people will pay what we demand anyway?

But no, you're right, who needs more money, let's think of the consumer, we are getting bored of money anyway..."
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
Then why did Sweeney say that in the future, we will see price cuts on the Epic store?

Either they cant promise that, or they are promising that.
Trickle down economics, again.

IIRC his argument was that when the pubs/devs see how much more money the bigger cut + fortnite audience brings them, they will slash prices of their own volition.

laughingreagan.gif
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
I am operating under the assumption that Epic wants to truly compete with steam. As good as Uplay is now, its still just a place I buy UBI games, same with Origin for EA games, even though they have plenty of other games. To me at least, steam is still the biggest third party game in town and they are synonymous with PC gaming. Epic wants that crown (again I'm guessing), not just someplace you buy battlefield and sometimes other stuff, like Origin. I am not sure how something listed on Steam/UPLAY/Origin splits sales but I am guessing its something like 80 % steam/10 % uplay/10% origin or something similar. I am not sure where to find actual numbers on that, but it would be interesting to see.
If they really want to take Steam's place, I think they're really underestimating how important the features are. Aside from Sekiro, I can't remember the last new release I actually got on Steam. Sure, I still used Steam for DMC5, RE2, Ni no Kuni 2, Vampyr, Call of Cthulhu and God knows what else I bought day one in the past few years, but all of them were bought from third party key sellers, and Valve didn't get any money at all from those transactions.

Want to talk about 30% cut being too much? How about the 0% cut Valve took from those games I bought, while still giving me access to all of the Steam features that go with those games and that EGS doesn't even have? And using payment methods still not supported by EGS, as far as I know.

That's a huge difference between Steam/Uplay and Origin/Epic. Sure they become sort of monopolies when it comes to "platforms", but not storefronts. There's still competition with prices and bonuses between different stores while still using all of the Steam/Uplay features that go with those games.

The Uplay game I preordered because I wanted fast pre-load? I bought it from GamersGate (I know, unfortunate name, but they were around before that other thing), not directly from Uplay. I actually don't think I ever bought anything directly from Uplay, because there are better deals elsewhere. Ni no Kuni II went on sale a number of times since I bought it, but the price I paid on my preorder on Nuuvem was still lower than the lowest price it had so far.

That's the kind of stuff that makes a huge difference from the "technically a monopoly" that Steam has and the actual monopoly with exclusive games in exclusive stores that Epic is doing.
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
Exclusives get the Epic store name out there and get some of that fortnite crown maybe playing something else,while the rest of their features are added

That's probably their plan. But:

- Origin, uplay and the Windows Store already proved that exclusives don't lead to sales for non-exclusive games as well. A pc is not a console. Pc gamers aren't gonna drop Steam for another store unless it's actually better.

- Epic's name is more and more being linked to negativity among pc gamers. Why do you think that THQ tweeted that they weren't involved in the exclusivity deal for Metro Exodus?

- Epic does not need exclusivity to get the fortnite crowd buying other games from their store. Free in-game items for Fortnite for each game sale on EGS would do that job even better.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
You are kind of proving my point. In a few years no one will care about this either, it will just be the new normal.

You could've just wrote, "suck it up."

I, for one, reject this new normal that Epic is trying to force down our throats. Plenty of other games to play, and if I really want to play an EGS time exclusive, I'll just wait for deep discounts when it inevitably shows up elsewhere a year or more down the road.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
I can't really stand Randy Pitchford but I agree with him here. Buying exclusives is literally the only way EGS can stand out in the short term. No one would care if they had feature parity with steam (which I'm sure they will in the near future) because steam is the status quo and without games you can't get anywhere else, there's no reason to try something different.

I love Steam and it's by far the main launcher I use, but I absolutely want more companies to have skin in the game and compete for my dollar and this is the simplest and best way to get that ball rolling.

I don't understand what you're arguing here.

You think that Epic's moneyhats are going to bring in more companies that otherwise wouldn't have released their games on PC? You think their deals with Epic are going to make them work harder to get your money? I don't get it.
 

Kintaro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,331
These EGS shills my need to show how EGS will be good for consumers and pass some of that 18% back to the consumer.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
Trickle down economics, again.

IIRC his argument was that when the pubs/devs see how much more money the bigger cut + fortnite audience brings them, they will slash prices of their own volition.

laughingreagan.gif
Best part is that posters here try the same argument. Every thread. As was said before:
Alternative way that answer is often framed: because of some variation of trickle down economics.

Which, interestingly, Era is smart enough to call out as bullshit in every other discussion.
It seems only when it comes to Epic Game Store is trickle down economics a viable discussion point on Era. Any other topic and it's rightfully laughed out of the room.

It would be fucking hilarious that people are parroting these talking points if it wasn't sad and concerning.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
The unpacking/activation is what I was talking about. Sorry if I was unclear. Other games at the time didn't have that issue.

Because they were all physical? Steam was the first of it's kind. And they tested it with their own product that could have backfired on the company. The only other people who would lose would be the consumers would have to get a refund somehow.

But for the most part once you activated the game you could play it anytime offline.

And you say it killed second hand PC. Well guess what You know how many Second hand PC games I bought? Maybe only a handful, and the reason was a lot of the keys didnt work. And it was double issue when people could easily make copies. At first what valve was doing was the first of what others would follow of a way to lock down how many times people would try to install a game on multiple machines.

It was a way to combat piracy. And it's works really well.

Do I hate it? Sometimes when I want to just install a game, but I hardly have physical PC copies, and everything now is in a library that I can access at any time.

VALVE took the giant risk and it paid off for them. They should treat developers better and hopefully EPIC will light a fire under them to make changes that will benefit developers, and down the road benefit consumers with trickle down pricing.

But EPIC has done nothing to in the form of risking anything or putting forth a effort to make something that they take the gamble on. The only people who actually will get hurt are developers honestly.

Them making their own internal games and strengthening their store for more people to have a reason to go to it outside of fortnite is what should happen. But not this way, not by buying already announced titles that now can't even be sold else where but Epic store.

It's garbage.

I get that we need another store for competition to help improve steam which does have a big hold on the industry, but also I would argue Steam has helped the industry just as much.
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
Epic can't really do that, they don't set the price.

And their 12% cut leaves them no space to offer a discount out of their own pocket.

Nonsense. For the money Epic spent on the 6 months exclusivity for Borderlands 3, they could have offered every buyer a nice discount on EGS. This would have been good for both Take Two (because of the 12% cut) and consumers.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Lol I can wait six months to buy the new games without batting an eye. Way to save 30 bucks over and over.

I'll be chillin like a villain. Like Bob Dylan on penicillin with a gold tooth fillin.

Pass the time play me some of that.

Dwarf Fortress.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,078
Second hand PC games died way before HL2 launch. There were already plenty of shops refusing to accept PC retuns (because of cracking) and most games had one time use DRM during installation.

Kinda stupid blaming the death of second hand PC games on HL2 / digital future. The culprit was piracy overzealous DRM (and some piracy).
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
6,800
In 2003, it was a huge deal to require always online for a game, especially when dial up was still pretty common. If valve truly was consumer friendly , they would have had a steam version & a cd only version of their game, and people could pick what they want. But valve knew no one would willingly use their launcher if they could just get a CD, just like Epic knows no one will use epic launcher if they can just use steam for the same games.

Valve did what it has to to get ahead, and so is Epic today. A lot changes in 16 years, and exclusives are the only way to compete. Again, I'm not super happy about it, but its hard to argue with their logic for getting their platform off the ground.

A bit of an aside, but there were some really shitty anti-piracy DRM and online authentication systems used in install/launch processes in some early-2000s games. Personally, I found Steam to be an elegant solution, although I didn't buy HL2 at launch when most of the server issues occurred.
 

Doskoi Panda

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,935
LMAO
I can't believe how much bullshit he packed into one argument.

But he knows he's not out to convince people who actually know what the fuck they're talking about.
He's out to muddy discussion by convincing the rest of you.

If you buy his explaination at face value, then you really don't know what the fuck you're talking about. It's that simple. Much of what Randy said here are honest-to-god lies meant to appeal to your preexisting notions.
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
Nonsense. For the money Epic spent on the 6 months exclusivity for Borderlands 3, they could have offered every buyer a nice discount on EGS. This would have been good for both Take Two (because of the 12% cut) and consumers.
IMO the publishers are not gonna allow it, because it would devalue their brand or w/e.

Why go with that when they can ask for lump sum upfront and sales guarantee?

And the games that are not EGS exclusive can't go with that due to contractual obligations elsewhere.
 

thebishop

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
2,758
LMAO
I can't believe how much bullshit he packed into one argument.

But he knows he's not out to convince people who actually know what the fuck they're talking about.

He's out to muddy discussion by convincing the rest of you.

lol, and they have people in the press saying similarly outlandish ish. I was listening to a prominent gaming podcast recently where a host said it was "beautiful" how Epic is "giving money back" to developers after their Fortnite success.
 
OP
OP
Detail

Detail

Member
Dec 30, 2018
2,947
Lol I can wait six months to buy the new games without batting an eye. Way to save 30 bucks over and over.

I'll be chillin like a villain. Like Bob Dylan on penicillin with a gold tooth fillin.

Pass the time play me some of that.

Dwarf Fortress.

You got some serious lyrical ability, dropping hot bars out here.

Did Bob Dylan actually have a gold tooth filling though? Genuinely curious now.

But yeah, I have no problem waiting for games either.
 

Astra Planeta

Member
Jan 26, 2018
668
A bit of an aside, but there were some really shitty anti-piracy DRM and online authentication systems used in install/launch processes in some early-2000s games. Personally, I found Steam to be an elegant solution, although I didn't buy HL2 at launch when most of the server issues occurred.

It was called SECUREROM, and yeah it sucked, limited activation of a game. Steam was for sure miles better than that, but securerom wasn't big until like 2007. I think the industry really didn't know what to do about piracy, it was a HUGE issue in the early to mid 00s and Steam solved the problem for them. It was DRM sure, but it mostly got out of the way after first year or so.