Randy Pitchford explains his support for EGS. (See Staff Post)

Crayon · Apr 18, 2019

Demacabre said:
Easiest answer:

They did not compete on consumer pricing, features, and a better ecosystem but instead by attrition of third party exclusives to funnel people into a far more barebones ecosystem that in many cases makes it more expensive and outright unavailable for pc consumers.

This only got exacerbated when EGS, industry people, and the gaming press ignored consumer concerns and began holding hollow PR talking points as gospel without any nuance or full discussion. "Competition is good" "Better cut for devs"

They were in lock step with the same talking points page AND ignoring/discrediting any and all concerns.

This is an aggressive and multifacetted marketing push to barge into a sector in a industry with no benefit to the consumer. This is crony capitalism of large corporations making decisions for the consumer in backroom deals on full display. This is not organic competition.

This is a good way to put it.

Zefah said:
Absolutely not. They are the market leading store, but they don't block anyone from releasing their games elsewhere, or even selling keys that work on Steam outside of Steam for which Valve get 0% of the money!

Valve has consistently shown that they are developing Steam with consumers in mind and I can't think of an online system/store platform that has evolved more over the same period of time, even though you seem to think they are slow to improve Steam.

Ge0force said:
I just don't understand why you're calling Valve "lazy" when they are responsible for more features and pro-consumer policies than any other games store on pc or console?

I'm also pretty sure that the majority of pc gamers want competition. But not like Epic is doing right now. Forcing people to use a new store by taking every other option away isn't what we were hoping for.

FACTS

Not facts like "I agree with you strongly". Facts like, "the actual things that happen in real life."

It's a fact that valve has been consistently reinvesting into technologies to expand steam. It's a fact that these features go way above and beyond what we ever expect a launcher to do. It's a fact that these features benefit users and even resellers along with benefiting valve and in some cases all of PC gaming.

Go ahead and deny it. Say valve's done nothing. Say they sit on their ass. Say it all you want because YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.

thebishop · Apr 18, 2019

Zefah said:
Absolutely not. They are the market leading store, but they don't block anyone from releasing their games elsewhere, or even selling keys that work on Steam outside of Steam for which Valve get 0% of the money!

Valve has consistently shown that they are developing Steam with consumers in mind and I can't think of an online system/store platform that has evolved more over the same period of time, even though you seem to think they are slow to improve Steam.

It's kind of shocking how little progress the longstanding PC competitors have made. With some small exceptions, they're pretty much all just storefronts with download managers, and really basic friends list functionality. Is Battle.net the only other one with a system-wide party/invite system?

Deleted member 5621 · Apr 18, 2019

voOsh said:
Again, Tim if you're reading this, get a PR person.

At this point, any one with a modicum of knowledge about communication and the ability to keep Tim out of Twitter would be enough.

Grand Galvantula · Apr 18, 2019

WarRock said:
Not that I disagree with you, but:

Press X to Doubt

Conkerkid11 · Apr 18, 2019

voOsh said:
Again, Tim if you're reading this, get a PR person.

He's got one

OldDirtyGamer · Apr 18, 2019

Geez , this thread is mean

voOsh · Apr 18, 2019

thebishop said:
It's kind of shocking how little progress the longstanding PC competitors have made. With some small exceptions, they're pretty much all just storefronts with download managers, and really basic friends list functionality. Is Battle.net the only other one with a system-wide party/invite system?

I'm surprised by this as well. It's another reason why I think people are often too flippant in their takes that Valve is lazy and doesn't do enough. While their game development work has suffered, their software development on Steam remains unparalleled compared to other storefronts. If it was as easy as some describe, I'd expect others to have gained more ground by now.

datamage · Apr 18, 2019

Chairmanchuck said:
Spoken like someon not using Steam.
Steam literally got more added last year than any other store in the PC Gaming space.

We got a streaming app for Android (and more TV models).
We got a new chat system.
We got a new 18+ policy.
We got new controller support (Switch Pro controller, several dance mats etc.)
We got new VR support.
We got a new game.
We got new publisher/developer pages.
Added more curator options.
Changed how new releases look like (Popular, all new releases etc).
New regional currencies and payment options added.

And I am sure stuff I forget.

Edit: Forgot Proton. You can literally play 95% of Windows games on Linux now.

That's pretty much it. Looking at their post history paints the picture. Nice of them to inform us how Valve hasn't been doing squat for the past years. All of these functions and features in my Steam client must have been created by modders.

¡ B 0 0 P ! · Apr 18, 2019

Without Valve and Steam I would've never gotten back into gaming when I only owned a Macbook for a few years. My first games I bought on Steam were Serious Sam 3, Octodad, L4D 2, Half-Life 2, GTA: SA, and The Walking Dead S2. Since then I've built my own Windows gaining desktop, bought a Steam link, and a GPD WIN 2. My Steam library numbers 84 games, plus over 200 emulated and non-Steam games. Thanks to Steam I can play Smash: Melee, Overwatch, and L4D 2 on the go though the same launcher in a user interface that supports a Xbox gamepad.

Will EGS ever support MAC and LINUX? How about gamepad support? Big picture mode? Mods? Compatibility with non Epic Store games? Not to mention community features like forums, guides, voice chat and groups?

Asking me, a potential customer, to wait a few years for feature parity isn't going to work. Roadmaps and early access can be annoying enough in video games but for a launcher? That's silly. Origin and Uplay launched years ago and they still haven't reached feature parity with Steam. What makes EGS different?

elyetis · Apr 18, 2019

I can't take seriously people who put steam as a monopoly yet complain about the lack of curation in the same breath. Asking for curation from what you think is a monopoly mean that those people actively want steam curators to be the life and death of games on PC, just because they don't want to see a few game they won't like when actively trying to see each and every games released.

For the *selected* devs indeed.

Deleted member 1635 · Apr 18, 2019

elyetis said:
I can't take seriously people who put steam as a monopoly yet complain about the lack of curation in the same breath. Asking for curation from what you think is a monopoly mean that those people actively want steam curators to be the life and death of games on PC, just because they don't want to see a few game they won't like when actively trying to see each and every games released.

For the *selected* devs indeed.

I mean, these were some of the exact criticisms that led to Steam Greenlight and eventually dropping just about all curation outside of the $100 fee. Valve responded to valid criticism that consumers and devs alike did not want them to be the sole arbiter of PC gaming.

bmdubya · Apr 18, 2019

I like that one of the argument is "the Epic Game Store has the potential to be good in 10 years." Great reasoning there Randy

elyetis said:
I can't take seriously people who put steam as a monopoly yet complain about the lack of curation in the same breath. Asking for curation from what you think is a monopoly mean that those people actively want steam curators to be the life and death of games on PC, just because they don't want to see a few game they won't like when actively trying to see each and every games released.

For the *selected* devs indeed.

It's because the people who state that stuff have no idea what they are talking about, and just repeat things they've read. Most of the time they never actually play games on PC, and get a kick out of antagonizing PC gamers.

TyMiles2012 · Apr 18, 2019

This just screams ignorance. Yes, Steam is a monopoly, but they do more fan service than the other stores.

Crayon · Apr 18, 2019

TyMiles2012 said:
This just screams ignorance. Yes, Steam is a monopoly, but they do more fan service than the other stores.

There's a big difference between a monopoly and a ubiquitous product. YKK doesn't have a monopoly on zippers. They just happen to be everywhere.

Valve has been non-aggressive for 15 years now. And every day that's gone by th was a new chance to leverage their weight to the end of squelching competitors or strong-arming developers.

Yet they haven't taken that opportunity. They simply made a product that was so good and accessible that it's everywhere. Besides the fact that many huge games are not on steam, and you can buy every game on steam on a hundred different stores, there's the fact that Val has made no aggressive or anti-competitive moves characteristic of a monopoly.

Jobbs · Apr 18, 2019

Making publishing deals with game developers/publishers is "crony capitalism" and saying such a thing gets you high fives instead of wtfs?

I don't know why I keep looking at epic threads.

Deleted member 1635 · Apr 18, 2019

TyMiles2012 said:
This just screams ignorance. Yes, Steam is a monopoly, but they do more fan service than the other stores.

In what definition is Steam a monopoly? Has anyone arguing this point seriously laid out their reasoning?

packy17 · Apr 18, 2019

Conkerkid11 said:
He's got one

2 of those games are on Steam. Just because Epic moneyhatted Anno off the platform before launch doesn't mean no one is playing it there right now.

Armaros · Apr 18, 2019

Jobbs said:
Making publishing deals with game developers/publishers is "crony capitalism" and saying such a thing gets you high fives instead of wtfs?

I don't know why I keep looking at epic threads.

I dont know why you do either, considering you dont ever address any posts that respond to your driveby posts.

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! · Apr 18, 2019

why is tims profile pic so low resolution

this is bothering me

GhostTrick · Apr 18, 2019

Jobbs said:
Making publishing deals with game developers/publishers is "crony capitalism" and saying such a thing gets you high fives instead of wtfs?

I don't know why I keep looking at epic threads.

Yeah, how dare people want competition between stores and having choices to buy on multiple stores.

They should just buy on EGS and stay silent. Dont worry, the wealth will trickle down.

Deleted member 5621 · Apr 18, 2019

Jobbs said:
Making publishing deals with game developers/publishers is "crony capitalism" and saying such a thing gets you high fives instead of wtfs?

I don't know why I keep looking at epic threads.

Maybe read the entire post instead of just the part that works for your drive by?

elyetis · Apr 18, 2019

Conkerkid11 said:
He's got one

What's funny is that it prove that other store were already a thing ( note that a steam game is usually on multiple store ), and that games on those store were already able to get huge commercial success.

Yet Steam is a monopoly and EGS must save us from that.

Conkerkid11 · Apr 18, 2019

packy17 said:
2 of those games are on Steam. Just because Epic moneyhatted Anno off the platform before launch doesn't mean no one is playing it there right now.

I'm not defending EGS by the way. Just posting a ridiculous Tweet from someone who's also responsible for EGS that's not Tim Sweeney.

elyetis said:
What's funny is that it prove that other store were already a thing ( note that a steam game is usually on multiple store ), and that games on those store were already able to get huge commercial success.

Yet Steam is a monopoly and EGS must save us from that.

Yup. It's crazy how many negative things this says about EGS, when the one tweeting it is trying to spin it as a positive.

EGS' stance on approaching the PC marketplace is to buy up timed exclusives. If it were up to them, that list would be nothing but games exclusive to EGS.

Fortnite is EGS, Xbox One, PS4, Switch, and both straight from Epic on mobile, or from the Samsung Galaxy store.
GTA V is available on Steam, whatever Rockstar's launcher is, and all sorts of consoles.
World War Z is EGS, Xbox One, and PS4.
League of Legends has its own launcher on PC.
Anno 1800 was on Steam and received a pretty large number of sales over there before its EGS timed exclusivity.
Overwatch is Battlenet, Xbox One, and PS4.
Hearthstone is Battlenet, Google Play, iTunes, and Amazon.

Crayon · Apr 18, 2019

Cmon, somebody fight with me !! >:O

demondance · Apr 18, 2019

there are mom and pop ecommerce storefronts with more features than EGS has, give me features that justify your store existing and I'll stop laughing at all these dumb ways to talk circles around the fact that they took money from Epic to make their game a timed exclusive on there lol

Sidebuster · Apr 18, 2019

WarRock said:
Not that I disagree with you, but:

He's a bald face liar. Every corprate CEO has said similar things then go and do the thing they said they weren't going to. They'll weasel their way out of it by same some shit like, "Well we meant it won't change for the people who already are on 12% but future games will be 40%". Then they'll say, "Well gosh, things are more expensive in the world and we can't afford the grandfathered accounts so now all games are 50/50".

Companies like Epic are always pulling that shit. Year over year they find ways to squeeze out another dollar.

Ganado · Apr 18, 2019

Tim "Alex Jones should be unbanned from Twitter" Sweeney really pays good for these kinds of testimonies I guess.

Regarding 88/12, I really don't see why they wouldn't offer it permanently, as they said. What they might do is push all fees onto the consumer though. It is a developer friendly store after all.

Zips · Apr 18, 2019

Ganado said:
Tim "Alex Jones should be unbanned from Twitter" Sweeney really pays good for these kinds of testimonies I guess.

Regarding 88/12, I really don't see why they wouldn't offer it permanently, as they said. What they might do is push all fees onto the consumer though. It is a developer friendly store after all.

They're already pushing those fees onto the consumer in many regions and have been from the start.

Edit:

Conkerkid11 said:
He's got one

That's just all kinds of dishonesty right there. There's a very good reason why most of us here scoff at posts that contain snapshots of the top games on Twitch at any point in time.

They're indicative of nothing, at least not what he's pointing out. Furthermore, Anno is also playable on Steam before he and the rest at Epic bought out the exclusivity.

Not to mention the number of "viewers" doesn't really directly translate to actual players.

demondance · Apr 18, 2019

Demacabre said:
This is an aggressive and multifacetted marketing push to barge into a sector in a industry with no benefit to the consumer. This is crony capitalism of large corporations making decisions for the consumer in backroom deals on full display. This is not organic competition.

Posts like this always get a bunch of responses like "this is what competition looks like!"

Right, that's how the short term incentives of capitalism work. They encourage these types of strategies, once a company has enough capital to throw around. But people still have agency. There are other ways, ways that could very well make much more money overall even within capitalism, except those take more patience and ingenuity.

Take the moment Valve seized to build Steam. When every major developer was fleeing PC gaming for the apparently much more lucrative land of console gaming. Or look at Blizzard during that same timeframe. These companies aren't our friends, but they did decide to do something very different from the prevailing wisdom of "slap heavy DRM on your game, or simply don't release it on PC if you want to make money."

Epic fled with the rest of the big name developers, instead of building something like Steam or relying on matching their games to consumer needs like Blizzard did (their stuff running on any hardware you could throw at it wasn't an accident). Now they're acting like there's something wrong with the space they previously couldn't bail out on fast enough, and the only way to fix it is to... buy games from Epic's crappy low effort storefront?

C'mon now.

Zips said:
They're already pushing those fees onto the consumer in many regions and have been from the start.

Edit:

That's just all kinds of dishonesty right there. There's a very good reason why most of us here scoff at posts that contain snapshots of the top games on Twitch at any point in time.

They're indicative of nothing, at least not what he's pointing out. Furthermore, Anno is also playable on Steam before he and the rest at Epic bought out the exclusivity.

Not to mention the number of "viewers" doesn't really directly translate to actual players.

It's more insulting because he knows everything you're saying. This guy made his name breaking down Steam data from every possible angle to try to suss out the most accurate possible picture of what was happening on the service. He absolutely knows how to place things like this in the proper context, he's choosing not to.

This goes for a lot of the discussion around the EGS from the publishers Epic paid for exclusives, as well as Epic themselves of course. There's a ton of feigned ignorance on this topic, for obvious reasons.

Shawcroft · Apr 18, 2019

What a complete and utter dingus.

We know why these deals are made. 6 months on Epic plus the cash infusion, then launching later on steam = more cash. At least in some accountant equation.

It's not cool, and becomes infinitely more questionable when it's a rather well-established publisher/developer like Gearbox doing it, but hey, it is what it is.

But don't try to act like you are fucking saving PC gaming by guzzling up an exclusivity deal.

Jesus fucking Christ.

Edit: I'm utterly puzzled at the amount of people on this board standing for this shit.

This is not about competition, shut the fuck up, there's a nice .pdf you can read if you actually want to educate yourself.

There is so much bad faith arguing going on I find it hard to read these threads.

Sounds arguments have been made time and time again but are being ignored.

Orbit · Apr 18, 2019

Grand Galvantula said:
Press X to Doubt

Agreed. I know this out of a left field but: remember blockbuster? Red box was set up and 'omg movies only for a dollar'. Now that redbox has the monopoly, normal dvds have gone up like a dollar where i am.

Raised in a Barn · Apr 18, 2019

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
why is tims profile pic so low resolution

this is bothering me

That picture if him kinda reminds me of that guy from Phantasmagoria 2

Detail · Apr 18, 2019

Raised in a Barn said:
That picture if him kinda reminds me of that guy from Phantasmagoria 2

Curtis aka ratboy? I loved that game lol.

Ganado · Apr 18, 2019

Zips said:
They're already pushing those fees onto the consumer in many regions and have been from the start.

Yeah, but that's why I said all fees. They need to fill the warchest somehow.

Crayon · Apr 18, 2019

Shawcroft said:
What a complete and utter dingus.

We know why these deals are made. 6 months on Epic plus the cash infusion, then launching later on steam = more cash. At least in some accountant equation.

It's not cool, and becomes infinitely more questionable when it's a rather well-established publisher/developer like Gearbox doing it, but hey, it is what it is.

But don't try to act like you are fucking saving PC gaming by guzzling up an exclusivity deal.

Jesus fucking Christ.

Edit: I'm utterly puzzled at the amount of people on this board standing for this shit.

This is not about competition, shut the fuck up, there's a nice .pdf you can read if you actually want to educate yourself.

There is so much bad faith arguing going on I find it hard to read these threads.

Sounds arguments have been made time and time again but are being ignored.

I have a model to share with you to make it more clear :

PC gamers have it too good. Jealousy. PC gaming does orbit around steam these days. Whatever hurts steam hurts PC gamers. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. And boom I stan for epic.

ShinUltramanJ · Apr 18, 2019

I don't know how anyone can take the word of any developer/publisher that's pocketed Epic's money, seriously?

Of course they're going to defend it and do their damnedest to sell you on how great it's going to be for you.

Crayon · Apr 18, 2019

OldDirtyGamer said:
Geez , this thread is mean

I've been thinking about this poster a bit now. And you're right. This topic is so heated. People are frustrated and lashing out. There's a reason they have to put that mod post in every thread.

People feeling like steam is threatened. People feeling like steam is the threat. It's a real fuckshop.

Raised in a Barn · Apr 18, 2019

Thinkdifferent said:
Curtis aka ratboy? I loved that game lol.

Yeah thats him. It's the grey shirt and glasses combined with the low res pic.

Deleted member 5621 · Apr 18, 2019

Crayon said:
I've been thinking about this poster a bit now. And you're right. This topic is so heated. People are frustrated and lashing out. There's a reason they have to put that mod post in every thread.

People feeling like steam is threatened. People feeling like steam is the threat. It's a real fuckshop.

It's hard to not be frustrated when:
- misinformation keep being spread as gospel even after being proved wrong
- the same dismissive arguments keep popping up like they are the end all be all of the discussion
- the general dismissiveness of the issue as whole by many
- people come to threads like this just to spout shit and never come back after being called out, again and again and again

X-Peaceman-X · Apr 18, 2019

Armaros said:
What is EGS stepping in with?

2009-esque curation that kicks off legitimate indie games?
Charging developing countries more money to pay for the same games?
Locking out one countries that is now one of the biggest rising consumers/buyers of games?
Not having the basic features or security from 2005 much less 2019?

I'm not arguing that service is any better or worse all I said was they were stepping In by giving the competition. A storefront hasn't caught valves attention the way epic has I'd bet money on that. I personally like epic as I never play indies and I dont use the extra services that valve offers so I lose nothing and devs and pubs gain something. But if you use steams services sure I can see the fuss. Doesnt bother me though and I'm still happy about it.

Armaros · Apr 18, 2019

X-Peaceman-X said:
I'm not arguing that service is any better or worse all I said was they were stepping In by giving the competition. A storefront hasn't caught valves attention the way epic has I'd bet money on that. I personally like epic as I never play indies and I dont use the extra services that valve offers so I lose nothing and devs and pubs gain something. But if you use steams services sure I can see the fuss. Doesnt bother me though and I'm still happy about it.

There is a difference between not using X features and not caring about X feature and dismissing that it exists. I living in the US and yet i understand the issues that peopling living in China would have being completely locked out of legally buying a game.

VideogameVices · Apr 18, 2019

honestly, this will be all seem like a storm in a tea cup once EGS has been trading for 2-3 months or so.

seems odd to be so incensed over an online shop

Nessus · Apr 18, 2019

I mean, Randy's not exactly unbiased. He's probably ecstatic that he no longer has to work with Valve after their falling out.

True Prophecy · Apr 18, 2019

Nessus said:
I mean, Randy's not exactly unbiased. He's probably ecstatic that he no longer has to work with Valve after their falling out.

The game is out on steam in 6 months from the game's release lol.

VideogameVices said:
honestly, this will be all seem like a storm in a tea cup once EGS has been trading for 2-3 months or so.

seems odd to be so incensed over an online shop

Well, the store has existed for 4 months already... so? Also if you don't get what the issue is your deliberately not reading the thread.

Read this written by another Era poster https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DuU-bjOqiCsZgXtqN_F3eCdx2CKKOT8_

If EPIC keeps buying 3rd party exclusives you will keep seeing people be upset, it's not good for consumers.

Doskoi Panda · Apr 18, 2019

Demacabre said:
Easiest answer:

They did not compete on consumer pricing, features, and a better ecosystem but instead by attrition of third party exclusives to funnel people into a far more barebones ecosystem that in many cases makes it more expensive and outright unavailable for pc consumers.

This only got exacerbated when EGS, industry people, and the gaming press ignored consumer concerns and began holding hollow PR talking points as gospel without any nuance or full discussion. "Competition is good" "Better cut for devs"

They were in lock step with the same talking points page AND ignoring/discrediting any and all concerns.

This is an aggressive and multifacetted marketing push to barge into a sector in a industry with no benefit to the consumer. This is crony capitalism of large corporations making decisions for the consumer in backroom deals on full display. This is not organic competition.

^^^^

VideogameVices · Apr 18, 2019

True Prophecy said:
The game is out on steam in 6 months from the game's release lol.

Well, the store has existed for 4 months already... so? Also if you don't get what the issue is your deliberately not reading the thread.

Read this written by another Era poster https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DuU-bjOqiCsZgXtqN_F3eCdx2CKKOT8_

If EPIC keeps buying 3rd party exclusives you will keep seeing people be upset, it's not good for consumers.

its an online store for the PC. You can just go and buy games on it. I dont see how its not good for consumers.

I have a steam account with 100s of games. If there's a game online I want, on EGS, then I'll go on there and buy it.

Its an online store front. I can click over to it easily enough. I'm personally not fussed and don't see the need to be outraged.

mieumieu · Apr 18, 2019

Well Randy can suck my girldick. I'm barred from playing the game just because you and your asinine business feud. Oh and I bought your previous games on many platforms other than PC but I won't this time because you're an asshole.

(Hint: EGS is totally blocked in China)

Deleted member 1635 · Apr 18, 2019

VideogameVices said:
honestly, this will be all seem like a storm in a tea cup once EGS has been trading for 2-3 months or so.

seems odd to be so incensed over an online shop

Seems like the controversy is growing more heated by the day, actually, but you can keep on shitposting your unfounded an ignorant opinions that discount people's very valid concerns for which you obviously haven't a care in the world.

VideogameVices said:
its an online store for the PC. You can just go and buy games on it. I dont see how its not good for consumers.

I have a steam account with 100s of games. If there's a game online I want, on EGS, then I'll go on there and buy it.

Its an online store front. I can click over to it easily enough. I'm personally not fussed and don't see the need to be outraged.

Please understand that your personal perspective is not shared by all. You may care about nothing more than the store, but there is a whole hell of a lot more to Steam than that.

Grand Galvantula · Apr 18, 2019

VideogameVices said:
its an online store for the PC. You can just go and buy games on it. I dont see how its not good for consumers.

I have a steam account with 100s of games. If there's a game online I want, on EGS, then I'll go on there and buy it.

Its an online store front. I can click over to it easily enough. I'm personally not fussed and don't see the need to be outraged.

Reset the Clock.

Gloomz · Apr 18, 2019

VideogameVices said:
seems odd to be so incensed over an online shop

Thankfully the vitriol is relegated to 1 corner of the internet.

Randy Pitchford explains his support for EGS. (See Staff Post)

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