- Oct 25, 2017
Right, like his point about shareholders being more likely to invest the profits back into making the store grow, that is true, but I look at both stores, and I'm more than satisfied with Steam's features, there are ways they could improve, but they have a lot more than I need, while EGS is missing things that are important to me.Nothing of this feels new.
Nothing of this tries to acknowledge that we as customers are put in a position with less choice, and are expected to accept that because of what might become of the situation.
Nothing of this acknowledges how poorly both Epic and publishers/devs have communicated these moves.
Very little of that acknowledges the good things Valve have done with Steam, a platform where Randy's products have sold in millions of copies.
And not much of it explains exactly what it is he feels that Valve needs to improve.
But it is interesting to see and read these explanations, or whatever you're supposed to call them, that only looks to a utopian future, without looking that much at what has been and what is right now.
The Satisfactory devs said that straight up and I can respect that, it's honest and entirely understandable. It'd be understandable from Take Two/Randy too. But they feel like spewing this bullshit instead. It's insulting. We're all grown ups, we know what capitalism is, just be honest.
The one who doesn’t restrict where games are sold is the monopoly and not the one buying up exclusivity? Good grief.
I thought my OP was pretty neutral to be honest haha, I do admit I dislike EGS for their anti-consumer behaviour but I felt I put enough neutral information in the OP for people to come to their own conclusions.
From when this was posted in the PC Gaming thread:
His point of view on private companies being used to enrich a handfull of people who own and manage the company might be skewed by his own personal experience as the CEO of a private company.The suit against Pitchford claims that Pitchford struck a deal with publisher Take-Two interactive to receive a “personal, secretive ‘Executive Bonus’ of $12,000,000 to be paid directly to Pitchford entity called ‘Pitchford Entertainment Media Magic, LLC.'” According to Callender, the executive bonus was an advance upon the royalties towards the Borderlands series, that would normally go towards the Gearbox staff.
A shopping cart feature only became available on the Xbox Store in Q4 2018. The Nintendo eShop doesn’t have a shopping cart. People managed to survive just fine.
Contempt is the wrong word. They view them as cattle with money.
The 'outrage' isn't over a shopping cart. The shopping cart is used as an example of a basic feature that is super easy to implement yet Epic needs to put it on the roadmap as a future update.
I think that says more about how lacking the console shops are to be honest. You cant even buy gifts in PSN.
I am sincerely not trying to argue when I ask this, I am being genuine when I ask, why do you believe this is good for the PC gaming market?
Isn't that exactly what Epic is doing by... buying exclusivity and control on publishing games?A competitor to Steam needs to have an installed base and be sufficiently neutral in alignment so that all publishers and developers who support the store can trust a fair economy. That’s just not possible with direct stores that are controlled by publishing interests
So is Epic? Valve does pay employees and higher ups well, but they also aren't afraid of investing in the community that got them to that point. They may not have given everyone Half-Life 3, but you know as well as anyone Randy that games come, or at least should, come when they're ready. Valve instead focusing on bringing features to Steam that people want and making sure the experience using their service is as accessible as possible and that's great. Also a bit ironic, no? Isn't Tim Sweeney worth nearly twice as much at this point than Gabe Newell is?
So why bring it up?
Have they? As a user of Steam over the last 11 years, I've seen the value of the platform grow every year. Improvements to the store, improvements to how I find content that I might enjoy, improvements to how I play my games and they've even gone as far as developing a way to bring a large portion of the Steam library to Linux which is, to say the least, incredible. I've watched them invest in a platform they truly believe in. Two, really. They believe in Steam and they believe in VR and they've put a significant amount of money into both of those.But they have also taken a significant amount of value off the table and, when they’ve reinvested, they’ve tended to put it to a lot of other activities besides the store that is generating all of the revenue. They’ve been able to do this because they haven’t had to worry about it.
As it stands, Epic isn't it either.
The EGS launched without a search function. I know that there's a roadmap in place that's publicly visible, but they have to deliver on that and more to come close to touching what Steam offers currently. I think Epic can do it, but it's a matter of if they will do it.
Regional pricing, in home streaming, gaming on Linux, direct publishing, reviews, their... own engine, a VR platform, a mod platform, an easy to use friends list, and advertising to 90 million active Steam users. Of course you can make the argument that the same if not more people currently use EGS, but those people use it for Fortnite. We have no idea how many of those people are interested in purchasing other games.That they have decided to invest SIGNIFICANT amounts of the money they have made from Fortnite into the creation of a store to create a real competitive landscape is, frankly, a GIFT to customers and developers and publishers. ALL OF US WILL BENEFIT from this competition.
Forcing me to move to another platform and hope that my friends are willing to move, while also making the same game more expensive, making it so I can't have that game in my library on Steam for a year where I have allllll my other games isn't good for me.
Take-Two got a fat paycheck is what happened. It's funny that I'm actually rooting for Respawn and EA far more than I am the publisher of fucking Rockstar games.
You and Take-Two swallowed the pill because you got paid. You can try and put it under the guise of it being for the benefit of the customer but...And so we’re going to swallow the Epic Game Store pill with Borderlands 3. And some of you guys are going to hate it and scream bloody murder and you’ll even blame me, personally, for it. And you can bitch and moan and brigade and stalk my shit, but at the end of the day when we look back at this moment we’ll realize that this was the moment where the digital stores on PC became unmonopolized.
This value isn't being passed down to us. If it were, things would be cheaper on the EGS platform and... in most cases they're not. Of course you could say that hitting a third-party site like Humble or GMG could help provide those discounts but they're still worse/no different than what you'd get from a Steam game.
Yeah, people put up with a lot of shit on consoles. That's not really a high bar.
It's encouraging the listener to automatically equate "PC gaming" to "Bleeding-edge AAA gaming that's dependent on profit margins"; just quietly normalising that association - and I'm sure a number of people making the statement don't get that they're treating that association as completely normal and healthy.
I don't actually mind EGS all that much; I'm critical, but I'm genuinely intrigued to see how the experiment pans out. Nothing on it is grabbing me right now, but I'd never say never for the future.
Yeah, this is a great encapsulation of where I stand.As someone who doesn't like EGS but still wouldn't think twice before buying a game I'm really looking forward to if it's EGS exclusive, it still feels so weird to have this kind of defense for it.
I didn't need walls of text to convince me to buy on Origin, Uplay, Steam, Nuuvem, GMG or other key sellers. They just offered me prices and services, and I said "sure, why not". It's so off-putting to have this much rationalization around it.
Maybe it could have something to do with the fact that you need a lot more words to convince someone that something that is worse is actually better. Uplay's much better preloading means I'll always prefer to get a Ubisoft game on Uplay if I'm really looking forward to it and want to play it as soon as possible. No need for anyone to tell me just how much better Uplay is for the industry.
Just using the Eshop of all things to justify the lack of features from any platform is laughable really.
Yeah, what happened with Sega and Alien Colonial Marines was scummy as hell, but again that doesn’t disprove the point of him being a good businessman. He used the money to invest in Borderlands which turned out to be the better business move.
We're not going to lynch you lol. At least I'm not, I'm genuinely curious why you think it will help the PC gaming market! I'm certainly willing to have my mind changed but from my point of view I can only see this hurting it, especially when it comes to things like 3rd party storefronts whom a lot of the world rely on to afford their gaming hobby. So far the only thing EGS has done is stifle competition, whilst this may change in the long term I'm not a huge fan of their brand of burning the short term down for possible long term gains.
The past is littered with the bodies of companies from people with "serious business experience"
He also invested in that Paladins rip-off ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It was a scummy and underhanded move to make from a moral standpoint, but the move allowed his company to make a shit ton of money by doing so. Do you need me to explain how Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are good businessmen despite doing similarly scummy moves?
For me, its simple; I lived through the shit Era of PC gaming during the 7th gen, when DRM, GFWL and delayed/no release was the order of the day for the PC market. The EGS reminded me of being forced to use GFWL and I'll never forget how THAT ended, badly with many, many broken games.