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Randy Pitchford explains his support for EGS. (See Staff Post)

Swenhir

Member
Oct 28, 2017
503

Randy is going to have to resolve those small contradictions for me.

Fragmentation, service, pricing, open platform, he used to sound sensible or at least know where the wind was blowing.
 
Mar 26, 2019
179
If only Sekrio was EGS exclusive. It would have probably saved all those 800 jobs that the billion dollar, tax dodging company, Activision had to fire.

Tim should get on the phone with Bobby, and strike a deal with their next pc title!

Activision would finally get some funding and it will all trickle down to the devs of course, and they would make more games. Brilliant! Why not done?
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,981
You are supporting the game devs not epic, it's a store after all, you buy the game and play it that's the basics of what a store should do, the other things are gravy only to be added on top of your game experience.
I'll support myself first, so paying more with nothing in returns is a complete non starter for me.
 

Windu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,532
I am sincerely not trying to argue when I ask this, I am being genuine when I ask, why do you believe this is good for the PC gaming market?

What is EGS doing for the PC gaming market that steam and GOG and other companies aren't that is truly benefitting the consumer?
We're not going to lynch you lol. At least I'm not, I'm genuinely curious why you think it will help the PC gaming market! I'm certainly willing to have my mind changed but from my point of view I can only see this hurting it, especially when it comes to things like 3rd party storefronts whom a lot of the world rely on to afford their gaming hobby. So far the only thing EGS has done is stifle competition, whilst this may change in the long term I'm not a huge fan of their brand of burning the short term down for possible long term gains.
someone pouring a lot of money into this sector is only a good thing imo. once they reach parity with steam feature wise then devs and consumers will have another store to go to. more leverage basically.

anyway, I am not going to post anymore in these threads since the Mods give you warnings if you say you agree with epic.
 

ChoklitCow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
447
Dekalb, IL
Read these tweets back when they happened. Not a fan of Pitchford's for more reasons than I can count any more, but this seemed like an open response explaining a legitimate business decision. And throughout the year (maybe more depending on how long Epic decides they can continue this model while being sustainable) you're going to see similar responses from folks in similar positions.

And in reading through the four pages here of the same repeating posts with the same users that show up in every Epic thread, if you'd look at the tweets Randy agrees with a good amount of your concerns in things Epic needs to create in the near future.
 

Dysun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,486
Miami
Can't think of a more two-faced lying weasel in the entire industry than Randy

Never giving you a cent for any games Randy, EGS or Steam
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
Trickle down economics lives and thrives with Epic Game Store. If only the people at the top got more money, all the problems in the industry will go away! I trust the rich people telling me what's in the best interest for everyone if only they had more money. Remember this has always worked in the past. Record profits has improved the industry always.
 
EGS topic guidelines

Morrigan

Armoring
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
12,629
Official Staff Communication
Given the volatility in recent Epic Game Store related threads we have decided that some clearer guidelines are required to cultivate healthier discussion.
  • Do not enter these threads in bad faith. If we conclude that your goal is to misrepresent the concerns of other users or rile people up, you will be moderated. Intent matters here. Honest questions or commentary about the differences and similarities between the Epic Games Store and other storefronts are fine. Deliberately and dismissively attempting to troll concerned members on those topics is not okay. These discussions must be held in good faith and in a civil manner.
  • As a reminder, antagonizing or engaging in personal attacks on other members is still against the rules. We have a large community with a wide range of preferences and personal priorities. Not everyone will feel the same way as you do on any given topic. If you feel a post is breaking a rule please report it and do not respond with hostility. If you choose to engage do so politely. We always check to see which users have a history of trouble in this area.
  • It is perfectly acceptable to want to wait for a game to be released on the storefront of your preference (ex: "I'll just wait for the Steam release.") It is not acceptable to troll threads because of storefront exclusivity timed or otherwise (ex: "So the real PC release is going to be a year later.") The latter is needlessly inflammatory and distracts from discussion. We will be scrutinizing these posts more closely going forward.
  • Do not advocate, defend, or admit to piracy under any circumstances. This is explicitly against our Terms of Service. There are no justifications that will make this acceptable.
Addendum: It's fine and often healthy to be critical of media coverage (ex: "I don't think this article is good and here's why"), but please avoid going down any rabbit holes with excessive vitriol and conspiracy theories (ex: "This outlet is clearly paid off because I don't agree with their coverage"). We've long had a general policy against hyperbolical vilification of the media and that rule has not been suspended.
 

northnorth

Member
Dec 4, 2017
138
I personally went from Borderlands 3 no question, day one, PC, to PS4 on day one. I'm not buying Metro on console, so I guess I'm waiting a year for it on Steam.
 

Kyougar

Member
Nov 3, 2017
4,221
someone pouring a lot of money into this sector is only a good thing imo. once they reach parity with steam feature wise then devs and consumers will have another store to go to. more leverage basically.

anyway, I am not going to post anymore in these threads since the Mods give you warnings if you say you agree with epic.
So you would book a hotel room from a new high-class chain that has no plumbing and electricity but they promise to include this sometimes later
you would go to a new Cinema without any chairs but they promise to include them later
You would buy a car from a new competitor that has technology from the 20th century but they promise to tech up sometimes later
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,042
PC Gaming wasn't in such a state that it needed saving from Epic, lol.
Shut up Randy, you wanted the money. That's all there is to say regarding this mess.
Thankfully it's only 6 months, instead of a year. I can wait a while.
 

CG Amor

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,488
This looks like a giant waste of time to read jusging by the little I read, especially the fact he's promoting what someone else is saying that has an exclusive deal with him. Propaganda at its finest. I'm not going to use EGS at this point just based on that they keep putting their foot in their mouth. Keep your mouth shut, is it that hard? The more you have to justify your existence the more pathetic you look and the less I want to support you.

Just release a good quality service and let it do the talking. That's all you had to do.
 
Oct 30, 2017
5,148
Epic doesn't seem like the type of company to throw money at opening a digital storefront in the sort of altruistic manner Pitchford describes. I doubt Epic would be satisfied not being top dog in the eventual competitive market their advocating for.

In some ways Pitchford's comment sounds like Epic just wants to make sure Steam is taken down a peg instead of creating competition within the marketplace.

At the end of the day a competitive market just means who is going to offer me the cheapest price or best value for my patronage.
 

True Prophecy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,204
lol well then, I can see why no one every pops in and says they like the epic games store for the pc market. you get a warning. thanks mods lol.

also I don't have a history of posting much in these threads, so thanks for lying. I have only posted in these threads a handful of times.
I mean... you were trolling with what you said... and what if you want to answer what's good about it EGS for the PC market and why I would like to see your opinion.

I need to understand what makes it so.
 

Kalamour

Member
Oct 25, 2017
138
Sorry this might seem weird, but what exactly is the issue with the Epic Game Store?

As far as I am concerned it's just another Launcher, so it's not really a problem.
Is it about the lack of features?

Geniuly asking, I don't get the exact problem.
It's pretty simple, for PC gaming I mainly use Steam, Uplay and GoG, but also other stores, like Origins. I order my games from these storefronts but also quite often from Key sellers, like GreenManGaming or humble bundle.

When I buy a game I will shop around and my choice will mostly depend on which is the cheapest or which offers the best features. On features, Steam is king by a HUGE margin, as I, for example, regularly use Big Picture, Steam link app, and the control mapping function.

My problem is that Epic: 1-Has a shitty store clearly lacking a lot of features I am expecting to see in 2019; 2- Is paying for exclusive left and right, trying to force me to go thru their store, making gaming more expensive for me in the process; 3- Is preaching to me that I should be thankful because I apparently can't see that they are saving PC gaming, when PC is doing very, VERY good in our age.

Remove the exclusivity part and I would have welcome Epic Store with open arms. Keep in mind that a lot of the game they are locking to their store are games I was looking forward to, so that makes me really bitter about their business practices. They clearly studied what was trending on e.g. Steam (remember Steamspy?) and used that has one of the main criteria for what they sign as an exclusive. It's just shitty, short-sighted business practices that I don't want to support. Another example of infuriating communication is their GDC event, where they were announcing exclusives like it was an event, a good thing, when I see no added value for me, just more games being removed from the other stores.
 

Ruslnis

Member
Feb 26, 2018
2,401
Imagine wanting competition for Valve so bad that you okay with anticonsumer practices from said competition
 

Swenhir

Member
Oct 28, 2017
503
Read these tweets back when they happened. Not a fan of Pitchford's for more reasons than I can count any more, but this seemed like an open response explaining a legitimate business decision. And throughout the year (maybe more depending on how long Epic decides they can continue this model while being sustainable) you're going to see similar responses from folks in similar positions.

And in reading through the four pages here of the same repeating posts with the same users that show up in every Epic thread, if you'd look at the tweets Randy agrees with a good amount of your concerns in things Epic needs to create in the near future.
Please explain to me why we should defend a "legitimate business decision" that is some of the most selfish so-called strategy this platform has ever seen?

What you are saying is that there are more people in this industry that are ready to try and pull something destructive for the PC and its market. That isn't really news for anyone who has seen the impact of gen6, 7, GFLW and their likes on PC. What I fail to understand is what anyone stands to gain from EGS's particular tactics.

Seriously, who gains from this except a majority of publishers and a few lucky indies? Where is the virtue of EGS for the platform, for the devs, for the players? I only see enormous dangers and already so much damage done to many devs, studios and their communities - and by their own hand in accepting the moneyhats - from the situation Epic has willingly created.
 

MillionIII

Member
Sep 11, 2018
3,237
I am not against competition, as a matter of fact if I had it my way GOG would be the market leader as they are the most pro-consumer store front on PC and the only one to give true ownership to consumers.

I also never said steam was perfect but they certainly aren't anti-consumer, they give users choice and they have made huge changes over the years that have directly benefited the consumer, they most certainly aren't a monopoly.

Epic on the other hand are doing hardly anything valuable for consumers, they are limiting choice, charging more money and giving less features and trying to select games that fit their store based on what they perceive to be quality (which is subjective) and will only harm the indie space.

What Epic are doing IS anti-consumer and will eventually lead to a monopoly (the very thing people accuse steam of) if they continue with their current stance.
These exclusives are not games they have made themselves, they have actively taken games from other services with monetary force and are limiting the choice of consumers as to where to buy these products, yeah, it's capitalism but just because it's capitalism doesn't mean it has to be anti-consumer.
And gog is barley making any profit and they laid off a bunch of people, why? because they weren't competitive.
Valve does gives you a choice, you either activate it on steam or you don't get to play it.
Epic are already solving steam's biggest problem of curation and they are only a couple of months on the market, if they will continue to add more features by the end of the year then I don't see the problem. The games are not exclusive forever so how can you even say that it will "eventually lead to a monopoly" when people here don't even want to use it? Kind of a paradox.
They are not "taking" or "forcing" devs to do anything, it was their choice.
 

RoninChaos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,388
Lol this guy is getting hit so hard on this that when someone says “I can’t support you anymore. Sorry, sir.” He blocks them. This is the bed they made, they can lay in it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,406
U.S.
But millions and millions of people are going to be playing Borderlands 3 with us on September 13 and it’s going to be a lot of fun for all of us who are going to be playing - whether we’re on our Xbox’s or our Playstations or we’re playing on our PC’s or, maybe, other platforms.
What the hell is this supposed to mean? I'm guessing he means later on and not on September 13th. Could also be a Switch tease I guess.
 

Chairmanchuck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,565
China
And gog is barley making any profit and they laid off a bunch of people, why? because they weren't competitive.
Valve does gives you a choice, you either activate it on steam or you don't get to play it.
Epic are already solving steam's biggest problem of curation and they are only a couple of months on the market, if they will continue to add more features by the end of the year then I don't see the problem. The games are not exclusive forever so how can you even say that it will "eventually lead to a monopoly" when people here don't even want to use it? Kind of a paradox.
They are not "taking" or "forcing" devs to do anything, it was their choice.
Oh. Great that chinese gamers cant play those games at release then! Really for the consumers!!

Also Valve gives you far more choices. Saying you can buy it in like 30 different stores to "just activate it on Steam" is still a bigger choice than "Activate it on EGS or get it nowhere else".
 

razakin

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
122
Finland
Epic are already solving steam's biggest problem of curation and they are only a couple of months on the market, if they will continue to add more features by the end of the year then I don't see the problem.
Same curation that already denied entry for a indie dev? Pretty sure there's gonna be more and more stories indie devs not getting into Epic Game Store soon.

Also, screw Randy and his idiotic ramblings that try to paint Epic as some kind of saviour against the horrible Steam.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,966
And gog is barley making any profit and they laid off a bunch of people, why? because they weren't competitive.
Valve does gives you a choice, you either activate it on steam or you don't get to play it.
Epic are already solving steam's biggest problem of curation and they are only a couple of months on the market, if they will continue to add more features by the end of the year then I don't see the problem. The games are not exclusive forever so how can you even say that it will "eventually lead to a monopoly" when people here don't even want to use it? Kind of a paradox.
They are not "taking" or "forcing" devs to do anything, it was their choice.
Yeah, it solved the curation problem by making it so that most indies wont be able to sell on EGS. The best kind of solution.

It is like people forget the whole path Steam took with curation from 2010 to 2017.

Edit: I also hate how we can make an excuse of it being "only 3 months old" and that it will improve with time. Yes, I expect it to improve with time, but what does it say that an online shop decided to launch in a state where there is not even a search function? Where the only function it has is linking you to individual pages of product (no tags, nothing)? It says that they dont really care about me, the customer.
Why do we have to give a pass to EGS for launching in a worse state than Discord (which launched some months before), or Origin (the last true challenger to Steam)?
 
Last edited:

ShadowAUS

Member
Feb 20, 2019
951
Australia
Thanks for re-upping. It's a great FAQ that I've linked many times, thanks for putting it together as well.
Sorry this might seem weird, but what exactly is the issue with the Epic Game Store?

As far as I am concerned it's just another Launcher, so it's not really a problem.
Is it about the lack of features?

Geniuly asking, I don't get the exact problem.
It's back up if you want to read through it!
 

AJ_Wings

Member
Oct 31, 2017
830
epic gives devs and publishers a much bigger cut. That leads to more budget for games. I have no loyalty to steam so I’ll do what’s in the best interest of me. The gaming industry is kind of a shit show in regards to employment and job stability. If this bigger cut helps that? I’m all for it.
Their super duper special cut for the devs ain't gonna sure as shit not gonna get to the average employee since they're mostly courting big publishers and rockstar, already established indie developers.

Epic sure is looking for the average developer and the good of the industry... LOL
 

MillionIII

Member
Sep 11, 2018
3,237
User banned (3 days): ignoring mod-post, dismissing regional concerns
Oh. Great that chinese gamers cant play those games at release then! Really for the consumers!!

Also Valve gives you far more choices. Saying you can buy it in like 30 different stores to "just activate it on Steam" is still a bigger choice than "Activate it on EGS or get it nowhere else".
Chinese gamers can barely play anything these days and I'm not here to solve their gaming problems, so unless you live in china why even bring this up?
Also Epic generates keys too.
Yeah, it solved the curation problem by making it so that most indies wont be able to sell on EGS. The best kind of solution.

It is like people forget the whole path Steam took with curation from 2010 to 2017.
And luckily they still have steam for that, like how competition should work.
 

gogosox82

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,539
And gog is barley making any profit and they laid off a bunch of people, why? because they weren't competitive.
Valve does gives you a choice, you either activate it on steam or you don't get to play it.
Epic are already solving steam's biggest problem of curation and they are only a couple of months on the market, if they will continue to add more features by the end of the year then I don't see the problem. The games are not exclusive forever so how can you even say that it will "eventually lead to a monopoly" when people here don't even want to use it? Kind of a paradox.
They are not "taking" or "forcing" devs to do anything, it was their choice.
How are they solving the curation problem? They are going to run into the same problem steam has. There are thousands and thousands of games being made everyday and you will have two choices. Either deny them entry onto your store front and that brings up issues of why was it denied and what is your process of accepted or denying games and who is making that decision. Or Let them on which brings up the problem of potentially letting games on that are just bad games that probably shouldn't be on your storefront (talking mostly about asset flips games).
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,898
Sweden
TLDR :

- Steam is a monopoly (Randy said this.)

- EGS and Tim Sweeney are here to save us from the evil empire known as Valve because they truly care about consumers. (Paraphrased but essentially what is being said.)

- It's all for the good of consumers and if they can't see that they aren't looking long term. (Paraphrased but Randy said both of these things.)

- Competition (Was said numerous times.)
all of this is pretty reasonable

i will trust a developer to have better insight on these things than random people
- Take two and Randy Pitchford are going to be remembered in the history books as the saviour of PC gaming and Borderlands 3 will be the EGS equivalent of Half Life 2 because they have more "balls" than other companies. (Paraphrased but Randy said this.)
the comparison between exclusive egs games and half-life 2 back in the day is not incorrect. that said, borderlands 3 will not be that game. all the EGS exclusives taken together may add up to a half-life 2 effect but randy has delusions of grandeur if he thinks that borderlands 3 will be remembered as the game that changed the market
 

Nightbird

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,019
Germany
It's a new launcher with barebones functionnalities, subpar account security (i'm not talking about the spyware rumors : Epic accounts seem rather easy to hack), offering the same prices than everywhere (and even higher for a bunch of countries), buying exclusivities left and right ultimately removing choice for the consumer and rendering us unable to find cheaper ways to buy said games.

In short.

Steam might be seen as a monopoly, yes. But you can find your Steam keys from various outlets for much cheaper (wich won't give any money to Steam) while still being able to use all the functionnalities baked in Valve's launcher.

Yet, somehow, forcing players on EGS is supposed to be good for us.
It's pretty simple, for PC gaming I mainly use Steam, Uplay and GoG, but also other stores, like Origins. I order my games from these storefronts but also quite often from Key sellers, like GreenManGaming or humble bundle.

When I buy a game I will shop around and my choice will mostly depend on which is the cheapest or which offers the best features. On features, Steam is king by a HUGE margin, as I, for example, regularly use Big Picture, Steam link app, and the control mapping function.

My problem is that Epic: 1-Has a shitty store clearly lacking a lot of features I am expecting to see in 2019; 2- Is paying for exclusive left and right, trying to force me to go thru their store, making gaming more expensive for me in the process; 3- Is preaching to me that I should be thankful because I apparently can't see that they are saving PC gaming, when PC is doing very, VERY good in our age.

Remove the exclusivity part and I would have welcome Epic Store with open arms. Keep in mind that a lot of the game they are locking to their store are games I was looking forward to, so that makes me really bitter about their business practices. They clearly studied what was trending on e.g. Steam (remember Steamspy?) and used that has one of the main criteria for what they sign as an exclusive. It's just shitty, short-sighted business practices that I don't want to support. Another example of infuriating communication is their GDC event, where they were announcing exclusives like it was an event, a good thing, when I see no added value for me, just more games being removed from the other stores.
Thanks for re-upping. It's a great FAQ that I've linked many times, thanks for putting it together as well.


It's back up if you want to read through it!
Thanks a lot guys, I have no further questions, I'm fully up to date on the issue thanks to you :)
 

Tart Toter 9K

Member
Oct 25, 2017
340
Chinese gamers can barely play anything these days and I'm not here to solve their gaming problems, so unless you live in china why even bring this up?
40 Percent of Slay the Spire sales on Steam were from China. That's a big market and it's growing every day.

And yes, iirc Charimanchuck does live in China for parts of the year. But good to see the "Screw you, got mine" mentality again.
 

True Prophecy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,204
Chinese gamers can barely play anything these days and I'm not here to solve their gaming problems, so unless you live in china why even bring this up?
Also Epic generates keys too.

And luckily they still have steam for that, like how competition should work.
Locking 3rd party games behind single stores is not competition or good for the customer. You do care about your own rights as a consumer yeah? Freedom of choice? And before you say it no console exclusives for 3rd party games suck.

I noticed EGS has keys on GMG but no discount applied that I saw at least for my region.
 

grosbard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
640
How is bl3 being a timed epic exclusive any different than 2nd party exclusives on consoles? Is it just because this is new for the pc gaming world?
 

Chairmanchuck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,565
China
Chinese gamers can barely play anything these days and I'm not here to solve their gaming problems, so unless you live in china why even bring this up?
Also Epic generates keys too.
Of course they can. They can play everything that is on Steam, WeGame and uPlay as well as GoG.

And yes. Your "fuck you got mine" mentality is horrible. I lived in China for several years and I am living in China 4 months out of 12 each year. 40% of Slay the Spire sales came from China. It is literally the 3rd biggest Steam market and Epic chooses to ignore it and not even just let the store be available there, but actively locking chinese IPs from accessing it.
 

Zealuu

Member
Feb 13, 2018
577
Jesus I wish people like Randy would just take Epic's money and shut up. You would think it was hard to come away from this kind of moneyhatting looking worse than if you'd just said nothing, but whenever they start going on about "competition" and making predictions about the future the cringe factor just goes through the roof for me

If I'm going to do some armchair analysis myself I'd say Randy is overestimating how big a splash Borderlands 3 is going to make. It's not exactly Half-Life 2. I was more interested in Anno or Metro Exodus - which (by the way) is now €20 for a physical PS4 copy.
 

True Prophecy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,204
How is bl3 being a timed epic exclusive any different than 2nd party exclusives on consoles? Is it just because this is new for the pc gaming world?
Well second party games are usually co developed with the studio yeah? Most of the time said games wouldn't exist. Like I think it sucks that PC and Xbox gamers will never get to play Spiderman PS4 but i can not be mad as Sony invested in its creation.

This is a 3rd party game that has always been money hatted to not be on the store that helped make borderlands the success it is for no reason other than money changing hands to stop it.

The fact it's only 6 months is because 2k knows for a fact the major audience is on steam and they get free money for doing mostly nothing.
 

SaberVS7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,835
There's no one's opinion I trust more than Randall "Colonial Marines" Pitchford.

Even if it was on Steam I'd still be boycotting BL3. Where's Sega's money, Randy?