Especially when Gearbox pulled the whole, "let's reveal the game on March 28th, but not announce the timed exclusivity until April 3rd" shit.
Hmm... I wonder which announcement is which?
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Randy Pitchford explains his support for EGS. (See Staff Post)
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Hmm... I wonder which announcement is which?
Nothing he said sounded outrageous or wrong to me. People pissed about egs are only thinking incredibly short term.
What will the argument against it be once its features are as good or better than steam's? And yes, that is going to happen. I'm looking forward to hearing the new reasons for hating it
What will the argument against it be once its features are as good or better than steam's? And yes, that is going to happen. I'm looking forward to hearing the new reasons for hating it
The simple fact of this whole deal with EGS vs Steam is that that the former offers me, the consumer, absolutely nothing of an advantage. In no way is it better or cheaper for me to use it. So they keep saying it's better for the consumer but they can't back it up in a way that I can see. Sure they can say it is better in the long run or whatever but that's just a guess or 'hope' on their part.
Looking through Randy's tweets/replies just shows how much of a child he can be in his responses. Incredibly defensive, very argumentative and condescending. Won't be playing BL3 at launch, and that's fine. Not even sure I'll get it day one on Steam now tbh.
Looking through Randy's tweets/replies just shows how much of a child he can be in his responses. Incredibly defensive, very argumentative and condescending. Won't be playing BL3 at launch, and that's fine. Not even sure I'll get it day one on Steam now tbh.
From what I understand, EGS is currently trying to build a user base by buying up exclusives. That seems to be the easiest, if not the most economical, option to get more installs.
Obviously, they can't do that forever, or they'll go bankrupt. I don't have it on me, but the storefront feature roadmap seems to be the next step. After you've got a decent enough install base, then you can start to differentiate yourself from Steam in terms of feature set.
And maybe I'm wrong, but I'm hoping this ends up with actual competition between Steam and EGS for my money, be it new compelling features, crazy sales or something else. Valve is no longer the last word when it comes to PC gaming, and something will have to give eventually. I agree with most people here that buying up exclusives doesn't foster competition on its own, but I absolutely think it's the most obvious way to stand out and get users on your platform, then keep them coming back with new client features, sales, etc.
I might be off base with this. For all we know, Epic might just be banking on moneyhats to eventually help them turn a profit and there's no long term solution to differentiate their store and offer more value to customers and a higher cut to devs.
Oh and Randy, you lame douchebag, your name hits my tongue like acid, and I hope your disingenuous bullshit catches up with you and leaves you with a newly sullied reputation
We've already seen with UPlay titles that PC players are willing to pay a premium price to get the Steam feature set. R6, The Division and AC come to mind.
That's probably why Epic went with the exclusives route instead.
But its not like that and its not better now. People are rightfully pissed about Nintendos piss poor online system and I think people can be pissed about a launcher not even have achievements or cloud saves and actually mostly nothing to make the consumers experience better.
Also here is a reason: Chinese will still not be able to use it, because with the 12% it wouldnt make sense to launch in China, because Epic would need to pay their taxes there.
And when will that happen that I get a BPM on EGS?
Or that I can see gameguides while playing?
Upload screenshots?
Have a profile?
Earn some pocket change?
Use VR stuff to play games.
Share the library with my wife?
People talked about uPlay and Origin like that and what do they have? Still just achievements, cloud-saves and for uPlay a profile. Thats it.
So far there is not benefit for shopping there. Hopefully we see games that are on Epic sold through third party sites. Competition is good for consumers. And honestly it took steam a long time to have the community features it has.
You don't see a problem in their position as market leader on PC? Considering how slow they are to improve Steam and their lack of curation of the store. Steam would be a far better place if Valve wasn't the only place in town. But let me be clear my criticism of Valve does not mean I like what Epic is doing in any way.
For real. Look at all this shit:
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Promotional_items
Fortnite is way bigger than TF2 ever was and people fucking love skins. Making Fortnite tie-ins for other games is a win for everyone except that it takes more effort on Epic's part.
It's still going to be their practice of buying exclusivity. Fuck every single thing about that.
What a disgusting comment. People aren't just hating EGS to hate. Comments like these are a huge middle finger to all these people who have bothered to explain here on Era why they don't like what Epic is doing.
Also, you don't know better than us when or if Epic will get better features than Steam.
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Oh come the fuck on. You've participated in enough of these threads by now to know exactly what the arguments against the store are.
You know for a fact that at the moment, EGS is in very early access, so regardless of what it's going to look like several years from now, the fact of the matter is that rather than waiting until the store was actually in a decent state before releasing it, they're buying up timed exclusives.
Literally nobody would have a problem with their store if they weren't buying up timed exclusives.
Randy also literally opens up by stating that essentially the only way for EGS to be successful is if Steam dies in its place. If in his mind, Steam is a monopoly, that would just be replacing one monopoly with another.
So, basically, you're hoping Epic gets enough of a user base to not cancel this whole initiative and then maybe use that as an incentive to beef up their features and discounts to actually compete with Steam. Yeah, I'll maybe take a look when that happens and not give them the benefit of the doubt when they haven't earned it in the slightest. If anything, their history has done nothing but earn my skepticism. No thanks to vague promises of trickle down economics.
Also, for a lot of us, Valve hasn't been the last word in PC gaming for quite some time... I'd say well over half of my purchases in the last few years have been from GreenManGaming or GOG.
Spoken like someon not using Steam.
Steam literally got more added last year than any other store in the PC Gaming space.
We got a streaming app for Android (and more TV models).
We got a new chat system.
We got a new 18+ policy.
We got new controller support (Switch Pro controller, several dance mats etc.)
We got new VR support.
We got a new game.
We got new publisher/developer pages.
Added more curator options.
Changed how new releases look like (Popular, all new releases etc).
New regional currencies and payment options added.
And I am sure stuff I forget.
Edit: Forgot Proton. You can literally play 95% of Windows games on Linux now.
Can you point me to a competitor that's doing more than they are?
Yup.
And it's actually more costly to hire a whole team of software developers and engineers for however how long to create/integrate that. Epic seems to just make money and go the easy way of putting up a one time deal for a developer for money upfront.
The long term would require way more effort and more money for having actual development teams to make all of that work for EPIC GAMESTORE let alone other games.
On top of making new titles from internal teams.
So far all this shows is they have money to throw around, but it's not long term investment. I would rather they have started working on unreal tourn release it as a F2P with spin off modes that continually get updates with unlocks like skins. Then those skins could be traded, used within their own market for other games, or be traded for actual money so people then can go and use that money right back into EGS for a new game or something.
But that would be too much work for Sweeney.
Well duh, they have a road map! Shopping carts are coming soon.
It's like you people want everything.
Edit: These things take time. It's not like buying these exclusives are cheap.
Agreed. You know what is also weirder?
People who fetishize competition, trickle down economics, and billion dollar corporations are a savior.
Hmmmm what does this sound like?
Man, y'all that are fetishising competition are weird.
you can follow curators on steam tho.
proton allowing you to play on Linux is a big one.
Literally the first sentence in the first quote and I already can't take him seriously.
I would say eventually, the well will run dry and Epic will have to find a way to entice users without dropping loads of cash. There's no way they can keep buying exclusives without making their client better.
And yeah, I definitely understand you not trusting it'll work out. I don't really care for the epic launcher in it's current state either. That said, I think if Epic really wants to compete with Steam, this is the next step. Exclusives are enough to get me to use EGS to play individual games but not enough to have me log in every day and check the store, forums, etc.
I should have been more clear on your last point. I was just talking about Steam as a launcher, not necessarily as a place to buy games. Anecdotal, but Steam sales haven't been that great for me lately, so I get most of my games from third parties, too.
I think the point is, they should have had a lot of this stuff in place along ass time ago pre-fortnite. it shows that the money they have, and popularity of fortnite slowly dipping has them wanting a longterm plan. And them turning into a storefront without their own games to show made it hard for them, so they took the easy way out and started cutting checks to big well known developers/publishers. Without having things in place for the people who follow those games to use their store in the way that they want.
Remind me which other store allows people from all over the world to buy games in their currency and using local payment methods outside of US-centric PayPal and CCs. Or which allows any game bought on it to be played on Linux. Or with ANY gamepad in existence, including full rebinds. Or that has mod support like the Steam Workshop. Or that has built in streaming, voice chat, curation lists and user reviews.
I mean you can tell he is really confident in all of these words given that everything else Gearbox is doing is coming out on Steam and not the EGS.
If epic had half the features of steam and stopped snatching games left and right, things would be very different. You want to imagine the reception would be the same?
Animals react to their environment, or in this case their situation. Go ahead. Imagine that you can drastically change the situation yet see the same behavior from the animals. Close your eyes and make-believe.
Edit: sorry I didn't realize your inbox is already getting blown up. I like dogpiles better when I'm not in them.
1. Saying that EGS moneyhatting is a "GIFT" to devs (Yes) and customers (No.) Also saying that this is the moment when PC Digital Distribution Stores become "unmonopolized" because a major games company paid for games to be available only on their service. :/ The reasonable shit seems like cover for the shilling.
2. We have no idea that the features will ever be "as good as steams". We know that Epic Games intends to compete on "Game Supply" (which is not a bad euphemism for money hat tbh, I like it).
User Banned (3 Days) - Lazy Dev Rhetoric and Ignoring Staff Post
I don't need to remind you of anything as that has nothing to do with my point that Valve is getting lazy and has been lazy for some time simply because they do not feel threatened in their king of the hill position. I never said that another store is better, my point was that Valve could evolve Steam a lot more if they had real competition (But I do not think EGS is that competition yet)
Agreed. And if they did and wanted their hook to be the 12/88 cut and not moneyhatting exclusives, there wouldn't be controversy.
If they specifically reached out to indie devs and focussed their push for those indie devs (and not just proven indies/publisher back devs) I'd be cheering them.
Edit: That is investing into the PC ecosystem that will create new games for the good of consumers and up and coming developers.
Edit 2: Yah know what? I could accept and look past a bare bones launcher with a 'road map' if there was no exclusivity deals AND their push was for solely small indie devs. I would buy into it then.
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EGS having less features than Steam is only a small portion of the criticism and I'm sure you know that. After all you have entered every single EGS thread in the last month, trolled and always bailled as soon as people started to ask you questions about your "opinions". You should at least be familiar with the matter at this point.
OP
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I don't see their position as a problem, I am however always open for more competition in the market 100% and a viable alternative that is not indulging in anti-consumer practices like EGS would be welcomed by myself.
I always purchase games on GOG whenever I can and wish they were the market leader on PC, sadly until developers and publishers no longer want DRM GOG will never be a viable contender to Steam and Steam is frankly the best alternative as things stand.
Their lack of curation is widely overstated as well, they were widely criticised when they had stricter curation and now they are criticised for essentially having none, they need to find some sort of middle ground but the issue is, what is "fun" and "good" is very subjective.
That's why Epics curation policy is a backwards step, THEY are deciding what is worthy of being on their store and denying indies and like I said, quality is a subjective thing for the most part (things like rape day for example though should never EVER be allowed on a store as a matter of human decency and I think Valves statement about the removal of that game was disgraceful tbh, that's where they need to improve massively.)
I also think Valve are pretty good at updating steam and adding features but I do agree some things on their platform need updating but the UI (at least to me) is perfectly acceptable.
I have a funny feeling that everything moving forward will be going to EGS though. Stuff prior to BL3 to me can be expected to go to Steam but with his position on the matter, I can't see them going that route from here on out. He's clearly indicated they want to support EGS now, at least that's what I'm gathering.
Although I guess they could move the existing stuff from Steam to EGS still...
To you and any other poster who argued exclusivity as a way for Epic to increase their install base: I do understand this, since there is really no point at all in installing EGS if you already got Steam, so indeed exclusive title is a way to invite people into the ecosystem. But moneyhatting isn't the only, not the SOLE way of making games exclusive to the store. Do you realize what I mean by the emphasized word in my previous sentence? Yes Epic could and honestly should developed first party or second party title to their Store. Just like how the main attraction Origin and Uplay is the place for EA and Ubisoft 1st party respectively. Nobody complained when Destiny 2 is Battlenet exclusive because at that time it was released by Activision. How is this hard to get? How do we keep forgetting the alternative to exclusive which Epic could do without angering and disrupting the PC market?
This makes it even more apparent how Epic trying to 'compete' in the least competitive way possible, wanting for quick cash grab (ironic since their strategy is wasting money). Developing store AND games took times and Sweeney, being the compulsive person he is, couldn't make do with that strategy. Before EGS all of their games except Fortnite was killed so they can focused on that title instead. It really shows how Sweeney really lacks any capacity for long term thinking.
Glad someone else has taken notice. I thought I was taking crazy pills.
Gearbox published Risk of Rain 2 on Steam the same day they announced Borderlands 3.
He then posted this, despite Risk of Rain 2 being a massive success on Steam:
There are several Gearbox Publishing titles that are Steam only, including Risk of Rain 2 which got a special deal from Valve.
*gets a reply with a bunch of steam improvements in the last few years*
lmaok
yes it certainly could be better
literally anything could be better
valve gets shit all the time
none of this any weight to the idea that EGS is going to help Steam improve with their current model nor proves that Steam doesn't have improvements/Valve is lazy
Funny how I just thought the opposite. That the people rooting for EGS are actually the ones looking short term (often devs and for their own picket, cant blame them though).
Because what does EGS means in the long term ?
- Fragmentation which means devs will have to handle different builds for different launchers and sometimes different multiplayer servers.
- The death of 3rd party stores unless authorized by Epic... And running on a 12% cut which means the death of price competition.
- The rise of piracy led by the terrible service offered by Epic (Because as much as you want to say they will match Steam, it's not just happening because it's a design decision. You wont get communities. You wont get big picture. You wont get Remapping input. You may not even get game sharing or in home/out home streaming).
That is the 3 main points I see problematic in the mid term/long term.
But if EGS was to become the go-to store:
Death of indie gaming.
Sounds harsh ? Not really. Unless you're high profile enough, you'll just get denied.
And when Origin actually competed on features instead of moneyhats? Well, Steam responded with a refund system of their own that actually works better now.
Absolutely not. They are the market leading store, but they don't block anyone from releasing their games elsewhere, or even selling keys that work on Steam outside of Steam for which Valve get 0% of the money!
Valve has consistently shown that they are developing Steam with consumers in mind and I can't think of an online system/store platform that has evolved more over the same period of time, even though you seem to think they are slow to improve Steam.
I just don't understand why you're calling Valve "lazy" when they are responsible for more features and pro-consumer policies than any other games store on pc or console?
I'm also pretty sure that the majority of pc gamers want competition. But not like Epic is doing right now. Forcing people to use a new store by taking every other option away isn't what we were hoping for.
Can we pin this to everyone that comes in to talk about it being another launcher?
Your not crazy Conker lol. It's just there are too many people who are uneducated in what steam offers outside of a store. Like half the people supporting EGS in this thread don't know me included to some of the features that steam has that makes it more than a store.
Like it's literally a fucking OS. Runs on MAC, LINUX , VR, steam link, has it's own trading system. Which to me is the biggest thing for keeping people within your ecosystem.
That's what EGS needs, and it needs to have its own games that cross pollinate features like a market place where you can trade, buy items/skins that keeps you in the EGS.
What they are doing honestly is just fucking lazy and the mudd slinging is just kind of garbage. I'm surprised a lot of press haven't gone into detail on this, like the only thing they seem keen on focusing on is the Revenue split with Developers. And backlash from people like us.
Yeah, and they make bank on season passes because of those skins. Epic isn't about to start devaluing them by attaching them as pre-order bonuses.
This is an amazing post.
Maybe I'm misreading this post, but I'm pretty sure Epic's already done this with a PS4 exclusive skin, and one specifically for people who bought a Galaxy S9 and downloaded the game from the Galaxy Store.
It really wouldn't take much effort on their part to make a single skin in the theme of a game releasing on their platform and make it exclusive to a pre-order on EGS. Honestly haven't heard anybody talk about this as a possibility before, and surprised they aren't doing it this way instead.
Yup, even they've admitted this isn't viable. There's a reason the 30% cut is so common.
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Yeah, If Pitchford were to be right and Steam goes away, there'd also be nobody to stop Epic from raising that 12% up past what Valve offers and beyond. I absolutely gurantee you all that they're not going to keep that 12% forever and even how it's going now, and I bet they'd still push the processing payments onto the customers still
'Competition is good!'
Sure, hypothetically. Let me know when they compete in such a way that benefits me.
Sure, hypothetically. Let me know when they compete in such a way that benefits me.
Fortnite skin is definitely the way of granting exclusive without being complete asshat to the market as a whole. In fact, isn't that what Valve did with TF2 and Dota 2? It sure is use less resources than developing a complete game while avoiding all these EGS-savior-of-pc-market narrative bullshit.
This tweet is unlikely to age well. Permanent is a strong word. He could have said "We have no intention of changing our revenue sharing rate at this time." and the result is nearly the same but provides much more flexibility. Again, Tim if you're reading this, get a PR person.