Now that the dust has settled, which is the ultimate John Wick Experience (until John Wick 4 comes out in 2021)?
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Ranking the John Wick movies
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Wick 3 is a better version of 2. The sequel felt like it was stuck between still wanting to maintain the original's grounded nature while also wanting to go full on bananas with set pieces and the implications of its world. Wick 3 says fuck that indecisiveness and doubles down entirely on the latter, feeling like a more confident movie in the process.
I still can't decide if I prefer the original over the others though. It generally feels like it takes place at a more subtle, different realm than its sequels. The two recent movies could basically pass for cartoons with how much willing suspension of disbelief is given to them, but 1 was a legitimately intimate crime thriller that had some interesting ways to add flavor to the occupation and world John resides in. In the first movie, crime syndicates felt like a big thing. In the subsequent two movies, you'd be forgiven for thinking they don't even exist.
The plot was also a little more focused I feel, a small scope benefits the character. The only thing that holds me back from saying 1 is the best is because everything after Marcus dies is sort of padding for time and finding ways to "end". I almost feel Wick 2 might've been better if Viggo was saved to be the antagonist for that movie, rewrite him over Santino's role somehow.
I still can't decide if I prefer the original over the others though. It generally feels like it takes place at a more subtle, different realm than its sequels. The two recent movies could basically pass for cartoons with how much willing suspension of disbelief is given to them, but 1 was a legitimately intimate crime thriller that had some interesting ways to add flavor to the occupation and world John resides in. In the first movie, crime syndicates felt like a big thing. In the subsequent two movies, you'd be forgiven for thinking they don't even exist.
The plot was also a little more focused I feel, a small scope benefits the character. The only thing that holds me back from saying 1 is the best is because everything after Marcus dies is sort of padding for time and finding ways to "end". I almost feel Wick 2 might've been better if Viggo was saved to be the antagonist for that movie, rewrite him over Santino's role somehow.
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2 feels a little underdone and abrupt compared to 3.
They're all good though. There's no quality drop compared to, say, Taken.
Only prob in deciding is that all three share
They're all good though. There's no quality drop compared to, say, Taken.
Only prob in deciding is that all three share
the same premise, John Wick against the world, or most of it. rinse and repeat
2 - 1 - 3
2 just to me was a masterpiece, whereas 3 lost me after the first hour, still a greatly entertaining movie though, I wish it kept up the pace and inventiveness of the first few action sequences.
2 just to me was a masterpiece, whereas 3 lost me after the first hour, still a greatly entertaining movie though, I wish it kept up the pace and inventiveness of the first few action sequences.
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2 is the perfect balance between character/plot/universe development and balls-to-the-wall action. Parabellum tried to do too much and some of the shootouts felt too long (especially Morocco). Also, I liked the Adjudicator's looks but they were such a unidimensional, moustache-twirling villain...
Also, I can accept suspending my disbelief the the desert/Elder part was all kinds of WTF.
I barely even remember John Wick 1 except for that club scene.
this place is like clockwork
The original is the best; the premise was fresh and original, it featured the best world building, and the action scenes have the best pacing in the franchise for me.
The third is better than the second. Neither have the simplicity of the plot of the first, but the action scenes in the third are probably the most interesting in the franchise. It was exciting to see how they continuously changed the action by adding in different settings/weapons/scenarios which kept the movie fresh and exciting. The second movie's action scenes didn't feel as inventive in comparison. The pacing of the third movie had more flaws than the other movies in the franchise, but the action scenes were strong enough to compensate.
The second was very good, but the other two are just much better in my opinion. I felt it built the world in a way which didn't align as strongly with what was the in the first movie, and I felt almost too much time was spent in the movie solely trying to build out the world and it didn't work in the same way it did in the first movie.
The third is better than the second. Neither have the simplicity of the plot of the first, but the action scenes in the third are probably the most interesting in the franchise. It was exciting to see how they continuously changed the action by adding in different settings/weapons/scenarios which kept the movie fresh and exciting. The second movie's action scenes didn't feel as inventive in comparison. The pacing of the third movie had more flaws than the other movies in the franchise, but the action scenes were strong enough to compensate.
The second was very good, but the other two are just much better in my opinion. I felt it built the world in a way which didn't align as strongly with what was the in the first movie, and I felt almost too much time was spent in the movie solely trying to build out the world and it didn't work in the same way it did in the first movie.
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3 > 2 > 1, but they're all very good imo. Para Bellum had the potential to be even better, because some parts dragged a bit and some parts were a bit dumb like the fights with the Asian guys at the end.
2 > 3 > 1 Surprised to see so many big on 1 around here. The story is straight forward but the it's so thin that by the time it gets to the 3rd act, it feels like it completely starts to run out of gas and it goes on for like 15 more minutes while the big end boss who had been scared of John the whole movie suddenly is going toe to toe with him and can't be killed.
I feel like the fights got more inventive in the sequels and the lore of the world is the one "story" element about the movie that actually gives it meaning (beyond the plot of the first, of course) as well as makes the movie feel unique. A revenge story isn't really unique and just action for action's sake isn't really compelling.
Even when 2 started going over the top, I was along for the ride and it made it's case for why the series deserves to be a series and not just a one-off. I'll probably be done after 4, but like I was saying in the Dark Fate thread how Terminator (and other franchises) never found a way to expand into the lore it set up early on and evolve the series into something else or found a way to keep the spirit of the original without feeling the need to keep rehashing the same formula, I think John Wick at least as found a niche for it's storytelling and provided a reason it could continue.
I feel like the fights got more inventive in the sequels and the lore of the world is the one "story" element about the movie that actually gives it meaning (beyond the plot of the first, of course) as well as makes the movie feel unique. A revenge story isn't really unique and just action for action's sake isn't really compelling.
Even when 2 started going over the top, I was along for the ride and it made it's case for why the series deserves to be a series and not just a one-off. I'll probably be done after 4, but like I was saying in the Dark Fate thread how Terminator (and other franchises) never found a way to expand into the lore it set up early on and evolve the series into something else or found a way to keep the spirit of the original without feeling the need to keep rehashing the same formula, I think John Wick at least as found a niche for it's storytelling and provided a reason it could continue.
I was really sick of the whole assassin world plot in 3. I can't really remember how it was in 2, but I guess 1 didn't have much of it, so without rewatches, 1's on top.
Don't think I'll see 4 unless they strip it way back.
edit: They can do an assassin hotel spin-off series that I won't watch. Deal?
Don't think I'll see 4 unless they strip it way back.
edit: They can do an assassin hotel spin-off series that I won't watch. Deal?
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Yep. 3 is much better paced and has lacks the one note combat style of 2.
Hard choice. All 3 are quality action movies. Overall I'd probably learn towards 1 > 3 > 2 but it's close between all of them for me.
I would say 3 has the best action scenes though, they really took it to the next level with the violence and cool set pieces. The scene with the dogs is excellent.
I would say 3 has the best action scenes though, they really took it to the next level with the violence and cool set pieces. The scene with the dogs is excellent.
2 > 1 > 3
2 is one of my favorite action movies of all time, while 3 was a pretty big disappointment to me. Everything I loved 2 for, 3 somehow did it much worse.
2 is one of my favorite action movies of all time, while 3 was a pretty big disappointment to me. Everything I loved 2 for, 3 somehow did it much worse.
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I'm always surprised by the dislike for 2
2 > 1 > 3 overall
3 > 2 > 1 action-wise
JW1 has the best story, best pacing, and is where John is most interesting as a character. The onion-peel reveals of John's grief, his past, the world is just done so masterfully; the first act drama is legit effective and the build-up to the Red Circle is absolutely fantastic. But the movie never quite reaches the heights of the Red Circle IMO. The finale action sequence is kind of underwhelming considering what had come before
JW3 has the most varied, astounding, and inventive action of the series, and I absolutely love the first thirty minutes and Sofia as the best new character. But the middle act really hurts the film plot-wise and just feels completely pointless in hindsight of how the final act progresses. Best action but weakest story
John Wick 2 is my favorite of the three and one of my favorite action movies of all time. The upgrade in cinematography. The evolution of the tone and expansion of the world-building. The Rome mission and seeing John as the tactical assassin fitting his legend rather than merely on a vengeful rampage or on the run. The propulsive escalation of the first movie's gun-fu CQC to modern-day "heroic bloodshed" levels. The promise and intensity of the conclusion. Cassian. The Bowery King. Santino's very satisfying yet very damning death.
Action sequences ranked
2 > 1 > 3 overall
3 > 2 > 1 action-wise
JW1 has the best story, best pacing, and is where John is most interesting as a character. The onion-peel reveals of John's grief, his past, the world is just done so masterfully; the first act drama is legit effective and the build-up to the Red Circle is absolutely fantastic. But the movie never quite reaches the heights of the Red Circle IMO. The finale action sequence is kind of underwhelming considering what had come before
JW3 has the most varied, astounding, and inventive action of the series, and I absolutely love the first thirty minutes and Sofia as the best new character. But the middle act really hurts the film plot-wise and just feels completely pointless in hindsight of how the final act progresses. Best action but weakest story
John Wick 2 is my favorite of the three and one of my favorite action movies of all time. The upgrade in cinematography. The evolution of the tone and expansion of the world-building. The Rome mission and seeing John as the tactical assassin fitting his legend rather than merely on a vengeful rampage or on the run. The propulsive escalation of the first movie's gun-fu CQC to modern-day "heroic bloodshed" levels. The promise and intensity of the conclusion. Cassian. The Bowery King. Santino's very satisfying yet very damning death.
Action sequences ranked
Red Circle (JW1)
Concert/catacombs shootout (JW2)
Weapons room fight (JW3)
High Table forces round 1 (JW3)
Home Invasion (JW1)
Sofia team-up (JW3)
High Table forces round 2 (JW3)
Reflections of the soul (JW2)
Cassian fight (JW2)
Museum shootout (JW2)
Raid guys fight (JW3)
NYC assassins (JW2)
Cassian fight 2 (JW2)
Zero's students (JW3)
Motorcycle chase (JW3)
Zero fight (JW3)
Library fight (JW3)
Horse fight (JW3)
Church shootout (JW1)
Car retrieval (JW2)
Perkins fight (JW1)
Killing Iosef (JW1)
Dock chase/Viggo fight (JW1)
Concert/catacombs shootout (JW2)
Weapons room fight (JW3)
High Table forces round 1 (JW3)
Home Invasion (JW1)
Sofia team-up (JW3)
High Table forces round 2 (JW3)
Reflections of the soul (JW2)
Cassian fight (JW2)
Museum shootout (JW2)
Raid guys fight (JW3)
NYC assassins (JW2)
Cassian fight 2 (JW2)
Zero's students (JW3)
Motorcycle chase (JW3)
Zero fight (JW3)
Library fight (JW3)
Horse fight (JW3)
Church shootout (JW1)
Car retrieval (JW2)
Perkins fight (JW1)
Killing Iosef (JW1)
Dock chase/Viggo fight (JW1)
1,2,3 because the sequels focus more action than the story and its getting tired watching it. It reminds me a lot with how Fast and Furious series become.
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Based on the screenplays John Wick 1 is leagues above the second or third as the dialogue becomes increasingly less interesting.
I think the most balanced between script and action is the second.
The third peaks early and loses itself in setting up beats that will play into the fourth.
They're all great though 1>2>3
I think the most balanced between script and action is the second.
The third peaks early and loses itself in setting up beats that will play into the fourth.
They're all great though 1>2>3
I mean. JW3 has a dude in the moroccan desert
I gotta say JW3 just for that, and the awesome way they portrayed
in general.
I also loved the villainous trio. Especially the 2 guys. But even their boss. I kinda like them.
I also liked that sequel-introducing ending: "Y-Yeah".
I mean goddamn! There's never been a more hype "Yeah" in movie history.
sitting above the high table.
I gotta say JW3 just for that, and the awesome way they portrayed
Morocco
I also loved the villainous trio. Especially the 2 guys. But even their boss. I kinda like them.
I also liked that sequel-introducing ending: "Y-Yeah".
I mean goddamn! There's never been a more hype "Yeah" in movie history.
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I liked how they let them speak in Indonesian and how one of them said 'yeah, he's been retired for 5 years but he's still John Wick!'
That final 'yeah' had way too much reverb or something, lol
Yeah, the duo shootout with the dogs could've been shorter. They killed half of Marrakesh :p
The one where he fights the ninjas from the raid > the one where John And common fall down the worlds largest staircase > the one where people keep asking him if he's back
But we'll talking about the greatest action franchise of the decade here, so there are slight variations
But we'll talking about the greatest action franchise of the decade here, so there are slight variations
AHA! it was indonesian! Yeah, i loved that scene. The whole fanboyism undercurrent in the movie was hilarious.
I also loved the uber-anime: "We are the same, you and I! Mista Wicku". It was hilarious.
The only negative is it's getting harder and harder to suspend disbelief. The wick world makes no sense at all. WTF is the most powerful man in the world doing living in a desert tent? Why is that adjudicator turning their back on Wick and Winston as she literally orders a hit on them. Like, wtf? Is them really that insanely fearless? There was a 50/50 chance they'd shoot them in the back I felt.
Oh yeah, and possibly the worst was the fact that Winstons security guys were only armed with pistols and white shirts. No m16s, no bulletproof vests. They were all slaughtered without killing a single attacker as a result. If he had a week to prepare, they should've been better equipped.
Nevertheless, I loved it all. jw3>=jw2>=jw
I thought he was going to hunt down the Camorra heads this movie, now I think he'll do it in JW4, and that this whole asking for forgiveness thing was a great way to draw the story a little further.
Also, Keanu Reeve's reloading is astonishing. I know most of ya'll have never handles a pistol, submachine gun or rifle except in video games, so you probably have no idea, but reloading is hard and slow. To do it the way he does takes basically the same amount of hand dexterity as performing a prestidigitation trick.
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OP
OP
At this point John Wick is Rule of Cool: the Franchise. Nothing makes sense but it's do pretty I'll gladly turn my brain off
Why and how did they have a brand new, tailor-made, bulletproof suit ready for John Wick in the middle of the desert?
By the way, the Adjudicator and their actor identify as non-binary and prefer the pronoun 'they': https://www.slashfilm.com/john-wick-3-non-binary-character/
Just rewatched the first two in 4K back to back(still have yet to see 3). I was not too big on JW2 at launch, but it grew on me this viewing.
I think the biggest issue I still have is that JW just makes dumb decisions in the sequel. Wick 1 felt like he was thinking ahead and put the fear of god into his enemies, not just because his skill was legendary, but because he was a step ahead and causing mass paranoia(indeed the bogeyman).
Wick 2, that was all gone. Nobody feared this guy. He felt like he had plot armor and bumbled through the film doing constant brazenly dumb things that attracted endless gun fights. Many that made me question how stupid the character got. He's lucky he's hard to kill!
Admittedly, the action was great in 2, the movie looks astounding with incredible backdrops far ahead the muted warehouses, docks, etc... of the first film(minus red circle club). At minimum the worldbuilding is neat, and the implications of his dumb actions open up Wick 3 to be quite a spectacle at least. I'd rank 1 ahead of 2, but the gap is closer than I felt on first view.
I think the biggest issue I still have is that JW just makes dumb decisions in the sequel. Wick 1 felt like he was thinking ahead and put the fear of god into his enemies, not just because his skill was legendary, but because he was a step ahead and causing mass paranoia(indeed the bogeyman).
Wick 2, that was all gone. Nobody feared this guy. He felt like he had plot armor and bumbled through the film doing constant brazenly dumb things that attracted endless gun fights. Many that made me question how stupid the character got. He's lucky he's hard to kill!
Admittedly, the action was great in 2, the movie looks astounding with incredible backdrops far ahead the muted warehouses, docks, etc... of the first film(minus red circle club). At minimum the worldbuilding is neat, and the implications of his dumb actions open up Wick 3 to be quite a spectacle at least. I'd rank 1 ahead of 2, but the gap is closer than I felt on first view.
3, 1 and then 2 for me...but there's very little in it, love them all. The action scenes in 3 were just excellent and give it the edge over the original. The original was lean, mean and a surprising breath of fresh air. That "where did that come from?" surprise of the original puts it just above 2 for me, though like I said, 2 is also brilliant. This is one of the few kinds of these threads where there's basically no answer that has you questioning the taste of the person making the call. No weirdos who think Freddy's Dead is the best Nightmare on Elm Street movie, just a great trilogy of movies so far.
Oh they feared him, it's just that $7M is a lot of money to kill ONE guy, with no security team. The next biggest target was $2M for a Russian Billionaire who likely has dozens or hundreds of armed mercenaries doing his security.
Some people will gamble their lives if they think they have a 10% chance of winning that dead wick lottery. $7M That's enough to retire and live comfortably. Or to buy a 3 bedroom apt in Manhattan! So naturally, their unfounded optimism and arrogance led them down the cliff. They also probably were the ones who did not see him personally kill 3 people with A FUCKING PENCIL and don't believe the stories are accurate. Not to mention the glory ontop of the $7M. That's why japanese dude did it. I suspect he would've done it for $1 for to become the top Tatsujin of korosu-ing.
Note that he's described as a man of focus, of sheer fucking will. Not as a genius strategist. Or even tactician. He's an anomaly like you said, he should've died long ago, 10 times over*. . and the reason the whole underworld respects him is because he's defied those odds too many times for it to be a coincidence, so he's basically the only S Rank in the world in one of the Skill branches.
And yes he's lucky to some degree. The Indonesian dudes could've killed him. That would've been the end. But nope. They gave him a second chance. Same with Winston. Same for the Belarusan lady (despite all her whining, you can see she is proud of him, her best student i assume). John wick, by being merciful and classy in the craziest of situations has built up a lot of charisma and good will. He's almost the robin hoods of assassins.
I bet he thinks he could improve the dialogue and make it more memorable.
They did not. The decision not to kill him was made almost instantly. On the strong possibility that he would accept working for them, they measured him as he slept and sat-called Rome to ask for a replacement suit , which was made immediately and flown from there via private jet and airdropped above the tent.
This all happens within the span of 6-8 hours. The flight from rome is only about 90 minutes. This leaves 5 hours to finish the suit and 1 hour to drive it to the airport and take off.
Thanks for the info, i've edited my post.
*Hell, he got out by taking on a suicide mission for D'agostino's family
1 >>> 3 > 2.
the first is the best by a significant margin. the third is about half an hour too long and drags in parts. the second has a bunch of characters i completely loathed.
the first is the best by a significant margin. the third is about half an hour too long and drags in parts. the second has a bunch of characters i completely loathed.
3 > 1 > 2
1 has the most solid story framework I think, 2 has the weakest framing (feels the most like "uhhh here we go again") while having more fun action scenes than the first movie.
3 feels completely different from the first two and has the most brutal fight scenes. In the end it's probably still not quite as tight and neat as the original but it is most likely my favorite
1 has the most solid story framework I think, 2 has the weakest framing (feels the most like "uhhh here we go again") while having more fun action scenes than the first movie.
3 feels completely different from the first two and has the most brutal fight scenes. In the end it's probably still not quite as tight and neat as the original but it is most likely my favorite