Rape Day removed from Steam

[.exe]

Again that wasn't necessary , and would they have a solid curation of at least the VN / Dating Sim genre they would be no justification to give ...

Click to shrink...

But that defeats the purpose of Steam Direct. And what's a VN/dating sim? Is Virtue's Last Reward a VN or is it a game with a lot of reading? Is Persona a dating sim or a game with dating as one of the components? There are better examples but it's late. The problem lies is in such gray areas. And whatever rules you set, someone will skirt the lines the best they can.

 

[Schlorgan]

I'm surprised Fox News hasn't had a segment on this yet.

Spoiler

Not really.

 

[Kikujiro]

Wtf is this statement? They aren't even condemning the game, they are only talking about risks and costs.
Is Valve run by sociopaths?

 

[TheSyldat]

But that defeats the purpose of Steam Direct. And what's a VN/dating sim? Is Virtue's Last Reward a VN or is it a game with a lot of reading? Is Persona a dating sim or a game with dating as one of the components? There are better examples but it's late. The problem lies is in such gray areas.

Click to shrink...

Your mind games just doesn't work and you know it.
Visual Novels , and Dating Sims , and games that blends the two genres are fairly heavily codified by now almost as much as Japanese Shmups and this game was using the tropes and the look and the trapings of the genre to try to smear the genres altogether as did other trollish games before it .
It's not the first time it has happened but it's the first time where the troll was so obvious and so blatant .
Again you're deflecting the fact that Valve needs to curate the genre properly .

 

[Jintor]

what a fuckin pissweak statement.

 

[Hyun Sai]

That was incredible. How the hell a game with such a name ended in the store in the first place ? Fuck them.

 

[JusticeServesMe]

Wtf is this statement? They aren't even condemning the game, they are only talking about risks and costs.
Is Valve run by sociopaths?

Click to shrink...

Why would they bother stepping their foot into the situation like that?

Devs: we made this controversial game
Valve: we don't want that sold on our storefront

Aaand it's over. Seems like the best way to respond to end this once and for all.

 

[Hzsn724]

My faith in humanity has been restored a little bit today. This trash should never have been allowed to exist in the first place. I'm sure the game also was just about raping women because the developer is obviously a sexist piece of shit that gets off on it.

 

[.exe]

Your mind games just doesn't work and you know it.
Visual Novels , and Dating Sims , and games that blends the two genres are fairly heavily codified by now almost as much as Japanese Shmups and this game was using the tropes and the look and the trapings of the genre to try to smear the genres altogether as did other trollish games before it .
It's not the first time it has happened but it's the first time where the troll was so obvious and so blatant .
Again you're deflecting the fact that Valve needs to curate the genre properly .

Click to shrink...

If anyone is deflecting, it's you. I'm talking about practicalities while you seem to view everything as black and white. It really isn't.

Good policy is designed around these gray areas and it isn't designed as a rush job response in four days, only for trolls to possibly weaponize it or skirt along the edge.

And before anyone takes what I said out of context, read the post that set off this exchange.

 

[Hayeya]

Who the fuck thought that the name will be approved anywhere?
And what is this statement?

 

[Kapryov]

That is the weakest statement I have read for a while.
I understand that maybe they don't have clear enough rules in place on their store, and it would be inviting lots of "what about..." responses if they condemn the game's content.

But

...the fucking game is called "Rape Day" and the developer was very clear on what he was going for. He couldn't have been more clear with his intentions with "normalising rape". It's so easy to take a stance against it, yet this is the best they can muster?
wtf

 

[anyprophet]

Who the fuck thought that the name will be approved anywhere?
And what is this statement?

Click to shrink...

steam is run by shitty libertarians

 

[Hero]

What a shitty statement to make. Take a stand and call this shit out for being abhorrent and vile and set the precedent that they will never approve things of this nature, not "we might put our company at risk if we sell this stuff." Spineless cowards.

I thought we might of peaked 2019 early with that THQ Nordic shit the other week, but I guess Valve proved me wrong.

 

[Sruckus]

So, putting aside that Steam can certainly choose what they want to support or promote , I do have to ask, while this game seems to promote disgusting stuff, what is different from other gross things like just murdering innocent people like you can do in a lot of games especially GTA?

Again, not saying I don't agree with the decision, I am just worried about being consistent and not just being accepting of one hideous thing from another because it's been around for awhile.

 

[Tamazoid]

Why would they bother stepping their foot into the situation like that?

Devs: we made this controversial game
Valve: we don't want that sold on our storefront

Aaand it's over. Seems like the best way to respond to end this once and for all.

Click to shrink...

Precisely. We don't need corporations preaching to the choir. Removing the game is solving the immediate problem. Hopefully internally, outside of the world of PR speak they are exploring ways to tighten their process to avoid a similar embarrassment down the line. I think we often expect to hear too much from corporate mouthpieces.

 

[Kurdel]

Wtf is this statement? They aren't even condemning the game, they are only talking about risks and costs.
Is Valve run by sociopaths?

Click to shrink...

It's almost as if the company was run by libertarians who have lost contact with the real world.

 

[Deleted member 4367]

I don't understand why it requires some sort of grandstanding along with removing it from the store. They removed it from the store, done.

 

[TheSyldat]

So, putting aside that Steam can certainly choose what they want to support or promote , I do have to ask, while this game seems to promote disgusting stuff, what is different from other gross things like just murdering innocent people like you can do in a lot of games especially GTA?

Again, not saying I don't agree with the decision, I am just worried about being consistent and not just being accepting of one hideous thing from another because it's been around for awhile.

Click to shrink...

Since apparently there are still folks asking "Derp what's so different with us murdering dozens upon dozens of dudes in FPS games"

One more shot of Jim Sterling spelling it out seems to be in order :

 

[Kurdel]

I don't understand why it requires some sort of grandstanding along with removing it from the store. They removed it from the store, done.

Click to shrink...

In 2019 people expect a human response from PR, wich this very cold press release is lacking.

And also, I don't think expecting a firmer repudiation of the content of the game is necessarily grandstanding.

 

[GhostTrick]

What a shitty statement to make. Take a stand and call this shit out for being abhorrent and vile and set the precedent that they will never approve things of this nature, not "we might put our company at risk if we sell this stuff." Spineless cowards.

I thought we might of peaked 2019 early with that THQ Nordic shit the other week, but I guess Valve proved me wrong.

Click to shrink...

Statement is shit. But no, THQN keeps their crown. I dont think we reached the point where Valve willingly decided to sell that game nor engaged in a board promoting child porn or their PR director replying "this could be in one of our game" to an homophobic comment.

 

[Conkerkid11]

Since apparently there are still folks asking "Derp what's so different with us murdering dozens upon dozens of dudes in FPS games"

One more shot of Jim Sterling spelling it out seems to be in order :

Click to shrink...

Good video.

Why's it 240p though?

 

[Sruckus]

Since apparently there are still folks asking "Derp what's so different with us murdering dozens upon dozens of dudes in FPS games"

One more shot of Jim Sterling spelling it out seems to be in order :

Click to shrink...

So I watched it and that was good.

I don't really want to ruin this thread with the more political points, but I do think some of the arguments are just weaseling out of the issue. Murder can affect families and loved ones just as much. Not to mention the fact that uh that person's life has been cut short...forever. Not to mention the lifelong affects for the surviving families. Rape victims at least have some possibility of living if you choose to, despite how horrible it may be for awhile.

The argument about how it mostly affects women, while true, I feel just allowed Jim to use it as another point for how it's different from murder because how some would look at it. But that doesn't change how it affects each person. It doesn't change that the fact that it does happen to all races, genders, and sexual orientations. He talks about victims and the power play - we have plenty of that, especially in movies with murder. See any gangster or drug movies? I get that he acknowledges throughout that he's not saying murder doesn't have those things, but he certainly downplays them to try and give more credence to his point.

 

[Achtung]

Lets go ahead and just make sure a game with that word in its title can not even get close to being on the store in the first place... how on earth is that not filtered out.

 

[XR.]

Good video.

Why's it 240p though?

Click to shrink...

Back then, HD was exclusive to the "The Escapist Publisher's Club".

 

[TheSyldat]

So I watched it and that was good.

I don't really want to ruin this thread with the more political points, but I do think some of the arguments are just weaseling out of the issue. Murder can affect families and loved ones just as much. Not to mention the fact that uh that person's life has been cut short...forever. Not to mention the lifelong affects for the surviving families. Rape victims at least have some possibility of living if you choose to, despite how horrible it may be for awhile.

The argument about how it mostly affects women, while true, I feel just allowed Jim to use it as another point for how it's different from murder because how some would look at it. But that doesn't change how it affects each person. It doesn't change that the fact that it does happen to all races, genders, and sexual orientations. He talks about victims and the power play - we have plenty of that, especially in movies with murder. See any gangster or drug movies? I get that he acknowledges throughout that he's not saying murder doesn't have those things, but he certainly downplays them to try and give more credence to his point.

Click to shrink...

In other words let me reformulate you

"Yes I do know that women are facing rape waaaay more than any other demographic but I'm still gonna play the smartass about it any way because it doesn't suit my narrative" ...

If this isn't what you were going for this how you come across to me at least and given you're quoting me ... that's to me you're talking ...

 

[The_hypocrite]

Valve needs to think more about the children like Sony does.

 

[Deleted member 1238]

Why dance around it like this? Why not outright condemn them for making disgusting content and say it loudly "this shit will not be tolerated"?

God damn it, Valve.

Click to shrink...

They didn't dance around it. Maybe you misread it but valve basically said "we usually support developers' creativity and freedom, but this crossed the line"

I see how you could misread it though as saying "we respect these develops" when that statement is talking about developers in general.

 

[Sruckus]

In other words let me reformulate you

"Yes I do know that women are facing rape waaaay more than any other demographic but I'm still gonna play the smartass about it any way because it doesn't suit my narrative" ...

If this isn't what you were going for this how you come across to me at least and given you're quoting me ... that's to me you're talking ...

Click to shrink...

I don't get why woman are being brought into this though when the general topic is rape and murder. Black people are likely to face violent acts against them than other races, but we still have games with murder. Are you saying that if this particular game let you rape any gender it'd be ok?

 

[ThreepQuest64]

"We respect developers' desire to express themselves, and the purpose of Steam is to help developers find an audience, but this developer has chosen content matter and a way of representing it that makes it very difficult for us to help them do that. "

A perfect and fine (corporate) answer. At the end of the day, it got removed.

 

[A Strong Latte]

So I watched it and that was good.

I don't really want to ruin this thread with the more political points, but I do think some of the arguments are just weaseling out of the issue. Murder can affect families and loved ones just as much. Not to mention the fact that uh that person's life has been cut short...forever. Not to mention the lifelong affects for the surviving families. Rape victims at least have some possibility of living if you choose to, despite how horrible it may be for awhile.

The argument about how it mostly affects women, while true, I feel just allowed Jim to use it as another point for how it's different from murder because how some would look at it. But that doesn't change how it affects each person. It doesn't change that the fact that it does happen to all races, genders, and sexual orientations. He talks about victims and the power play - we have plenty of that, especially in movies with murder. See any gangster or drug movies? I get that he acknowledges throughout that he's not saying murder doesn't have those things, but he certainly downplays them to try and give more credence to his point.

Click to shrink...

I legit don't understand why anyone would want rape in a videogame. I guess no one you know has been raped, or more likely, no one you know has told you about their rape. The post honestly feels like bait.

Someone watching Ryu hayabusa slice a ninjas head off with a katana probably isn't going to me reminded of the time their cousin got murdered. Or whatever. But if you have to watch someone get raped in a game you're probably going to be taken back to the time your "friend" overstayed their welcome, crawled into bed with you and violently raped you. Rape is an inherently personal crime.

Not to mention, in some cases, killing is justified- when is a rape ever right or necessary? Never.

In a pure numbers game sense, rape is 10x more likely than murder in the us and effects more people then you're implying it does.

And as Jim Sterling mentioned, when you're dead, you're dead. Rape stays with you the rest of your life.

 

[TheSyldat]

I legit don't understand why anyone would want rape in a videogame. I guess no one you know has been raped, or more likely, no one you know has told you about their rape. The post honestly feels like bait.

Someone watching Ryu hayabusa slice a ninjas head off with a katana probably isn't going to me reminded of the time their cousin got murdered. Or whatever. But if you have to watch someone get raped in a game you're probably going to be taken back to the time your "friend" overstayed their welcome, crawled into bed with you and violently raped you.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for saying it for me from a rape victim ...

 

[Shadout]

One of those times where no explanation had sounded less bad than what they decided to use as an explanation. If they cant come up with better reasons, than that it is risky for their bottom line, something is really wrong.

 

[Sruckus]

I legit don't understand why anyone would want rape in a videogame. I guess no one you know has been raped, or more likely, no one you know has told you about their rape.

Someone watching Ryu hayabusa slice a ninjas head off with a katana probably isn't going to me reminded of the time their cousin got murdered. Or whatever. I bet rape rates are higher then murder rates generally too but who knows in america where you're shooting people everyday.

Click to shrink...

I don't want it. I just want us to be consistent and not hypocritical. I legitimately was trying to find the argument since I couldn't come up with one short of we just might be conditioned at this point of it being worse.

Jim in the video made another good point about how some murder is framed toward a supposed villain (although many here don't seem to like that argument when it comes to real life wars), but some games (again I bring up GTA where you can just kill and run over anyone) don't frame it that way and everyone still enjoys as a GAME.

Now I don't want pedophilia games and get how that could be worse. But luckily there's not any games I'm aware of where you can kill children either so there's just an acceptance of not going there and I'm fine with it.

 

[BeI]

"We respect developers' desire to express themselves, and the purpose of Steam is to help developers find an audience, but this developer has chosen content matter and a way of representing it that makes it very difficult for us to help them do that. "

A perfect and fine (corporate) answer. At the end of the day, it got removed.

Click to shrink...

Pretty much, I guess. Has Valve ever actually come out really hard against anything? I tend to imagine them generally staying quite objective rather than anything else.

 

[A Strong Latte]

I don't want it. I just want us to be consistent and not hypocritical. I legitimately was trying to find the argument since I couldn't come up with one short of we just might be conditioned at this point of it being worse.

Click to shrink...

It's not hypocritical because it's not the same thing. It's like saying if you hate pizza so much why do you like ice cream. (fucked metaphor sorry)

 

[Sruckus]

It's not hypocritical because it's not the same thing. It's like saying if you hate pizza so much why do you like ice cream. (fucked metaphor sorry)

Click to shrink...

If you were trying to ban pizza, but not ice cream yeah that'd be a concern. They are both foods (just like rape and murder are both violent, despicable acts).

 

[XR.]

So I watched it and that was good.

I don't really want to ruin this thread with the more political points, but I do think some of the arguments are just weaseling out of the issue. Murder can affect families and loved ones just as much. Not to mention the fact that uh that person's life has been cut short...forever. Not to mention the lifelong affects for the surviving families. Rape victims at least have some possibility of living if you choose to, despite how horrible it may be for awhile.

The argument about how it mostly affects women, while true, I feel just allowed Jim to use it as another point for how it's different from murder because how some would look at it. But that doesn't change how it affects each person. It doesn't change that the fact that it does happen to all races, genders, and sexual orientations. He talks about victims and the power play - we have plenty of that, especially in movies with murder. See any gangster or drug movies? I get that he acknowledges throughout that he's not saying murder doesn't have those things, but he certainly downplays them to try and give more credence to his point.

Click to shrink...

Outside of Jim Sterling's points and the political side of it, it's very much about goal and intent, as well as how you present it. In GTA your goal isn't to murder innocent people and the game doesn't encourage you to go on a killing spree. If they were to remove the ability to do so most people wouldn't care and just proceed playing it.

This game however, exists for the sole purpose of raping women. There's nothing more to it, and if they removed that part the game would have nothing to offer its current "fanbase". You don't buy it for the dialogue, story, atmosphere, graphics, gameplay or music--you're supposed to buy it if the idea of rape turns you on, and if that's a difficult line to draw I don't know what to say.

The debate doesn't really call for "but what about this" because the distinction is clear as day.

 

[Deleted member 10629]

Pretty much, I guess. Has Valve ever actually come out really hard against anything? I tend to imagine them generally staying quite objective rather than anything else.

Click to shrink...

The time they tried that was with the ban all the anime/hentai that blowed up on their faces no?

At the same time, I think Valve is in a position to explicitly say 'this shit is not ok guys'. It's not like the muh freeze peach guys are going to get their games from somewhere else.

 

[Pixieking]

I don't want it. I just want us to be consistent and not hypocritical. I legitimately was trying to find the argument since I couldn't come up with one short of we just might be conditioned at this point of it being worse.

Jim in the video made another good point about how some murder is framed toward a supposed villain (although many here don't seem to like that argument when it comes to real life wars), but some games (again I bring up GTA where you can just kill and run over anyone) don't frame it that way and everyone still enjoys as a GAME.

Now I don't want pedophilia games and get how that could be worse. But luckily there's not any games I'm aware of where you can kill children either so there's just an acceptance of not going there and I'm fine with it.

Click to shrink...

Remz made a good point. But to come at it from another way:

Rape still has the ability to shock and appal. Everything from Rohingya women having to bear their abusers children, to Freshmen being plyed with alcohol and violated, no matter where you are in the world. If people aren't sickened by rape, then there's a good chance they actually are a sociopath.

But murder? Look at the US, and every mass shooting just since Parkland. The public at large are inured to murder, no matter the age, gender, race or ethnicity of the victims. "Thoughs and prayers" and move on.

Some things don't need to be consistent. Some things need the continued power to shock and reduce to tears. Especially in a society where rape culture is still a thing.

Edit:

Valve's statement is... Hmmm.

We should all demand more from videogame companies. Fucking THQN and now this? Nah, games companies need to step the fuck up. I can see why Valve don't want to - not just money, but their libertarian stance with regards to the store. But fuck man, this needs more.

 

[Sruckus]

Outside of Jim Sterling's points and the political side of it, it's very much about goal and intent, as well as how you present it. In GTA your goal isn't to murder innocent people and the game doesn't encourage you to go on a killing spree. If they were to remove the ability to do so most people wouldn't care and just proceed playing it.

This game however, exists for the sole purpose of raping women. There's nothing more to it, and if they removed that part the game would have nothing to offer its current "fanbase". You don't buy it for the dialogue, story, atmosphere, graphics, gameplay or music--you're supposed to buy it if the idea of rape turns you on, and if that's a difficult line to draw I don't know what to say.

The debate doesn't really call for "but what about this" because the distinction is clear as day.

Click to shrink...

That's fair. I guess I was (incorrectly) assuming that these arguments were more about rape being in a game rather than just a game promoting rape as the sole purpose.

Some things don't need to be consistent. Some things need the continued power to shock and reduce to tears. Especially in a society where rape culture is still a thing.

Click to shrink...

Of course, but one could also argue against actively supporting games that continue to serve the reality of murder being less shocking or even a big deal.

 

[TheSyldat]

The time they tried that was with the ban all the anime/hentai that blowed up on their faces no?

At the same time, I think Valve is in a position to explicitly say 'this shit is not ok guys'. It's not like the muh freeze peach guys are going to get their games from somewhere else.

Click to shrink...

Hell that crowd already bitches to no end when the creators of a VN they want refuses to put it anywhere else than on itch.io sooo let them "cry" already ....

 

[Rat King]

That statement. Yikes.

 

[ramoisdead]

What a shitty statement to make. Take a stand and call this shit out for being abhorrent and vile and set the precedent that they will never approve things of this nature, not "we might put our company at risk if we sell this stuff." Spineless cowards.

I thought we might of peaked 2019 early with that THQ Nordic shit the other week, but I guess Valve proved me wrong.

Click to shrink...

Ummm no?? Yes, Valve should be criticized for not acting sooner. Yes, Valve should have worded their statement better than what they gave. Still, Valve never promoted this game, it was never sold at a price, and in the end was taken down before it even went on sale. At least, Valve did something...plus they never had a friendly chitchat with Gamergaters and pedophiles. You could say Valve blundered...but THQN still holds that crown.

 

[test_account]

Of course, but one could also argue against actively supporting games that continue to serve the reality of murder being less shocking or even a big deal.

Click to shrink...

Personally, i do that to some extend. I hate games like Postal and Hatred, games where the goal is simply to kill innocent people, and i really disliked the airport scene being playable in Modern Warfare 2. I didnt see any need for the developers to make that a playable event in the game, a cutscene would have been enough (luckily you can skip it, you dont have to play it, but still). Its a big difference compared to e.g GTA where you can run over civilians, but its not the goal of the game. Or a game like Soldier of Fortune, thats pretty gory, but its not about killing civilians.

 

[Snow Halation]

The actual content is pretty goddamned extreme. You can also let a dog rape one of your butlers. You get a CGI for letting a dog rape your butler.

Click to shrink...

Wait really? I would think whoever localized that would be leery getting caught on the wrong side of an obscenity charge.

A recent MangaGamer VN removed a bestiality scene for the English version while keeping an explicit sex scene with an underage character. That VN is also on Steam.

 

[Deleted member 2834]

Good decision, eye brow raising response. But then, still better than the other way around.

 

[astro]

They didn't dance around it. Maybe you misread it but valve basically said "we usually support developers' creativity and freedom, but this crossed the line"

I see how you could misread it though as saying "we respect these develops" when that statement is talking about developers in general.

Click to shrink...

No they did dance around it. The entire point is stuff like this shouldn't be here in the first place and should be outright condemned if something like this happens.

It obviously crossed a line, that doesn't quite sell how awful it is.

 

[Remember]

Wtf is this statement? They aren't even condemning the game, they are only talking about risks and costs.
Is Valve run by sociopaths?

Click to shrink...

Why would businessmen stick their necks out that far? Money and what's best for business is the bottom line, nothing else.

 

[juventino13]

Wtf is this statement? They aren't even condemning the game, they are only talking about risks and costs.
Is Valve run by sociopaths?

Click to shrink...

Its run by suits, all they care about is the bottom line

 

[ThreepQuest64]

I tend to imagine them generally staying quite objective rather than anything else.

Click to shrink...

I guess this is standard. I mean, when sick shit happens, and the government has a word, they literally say, 'we condemn this behaviour utterly and won't tolerare... etc.' They don't say, "we will punish these motherfuckers and eradicate every single last one of them' (which they could, esepcially in countries with a fucking death penalty). Some companies, depending on their image, would actually do that, yes, but most won't. It's like reading from a legal text, e.g. Rape.—Any person subject to this chapter who commits a sexual act upon another person by—
(1) using unlawful force against that other person;

etc.

This neutral as fuck. This is formal language. There are no adjectives like 'tragic' or 'beastly' or 'awful'. Most companies use that formal language.