Rapper 2 Milly plans to sue Epic Games over use of his dance Milly Rock in Fortnite

vestan

Member
Dec 28, 2017
8,957
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rapper-2-milly-accuses-fortnite-of-stealing-his-dance-moves-milly-rock-emote/
http://www.xxlmag.com/news/2018/11/2-milly-accuses-fornite-stealing-dance-moves-video-games/

2 Milly told CBS News how he found out that he became a Fortnite emote, which is a dance animation that players can purchase. “Everybody was like ‘Yo your dance is in the game,'” he said. “They actually sell the particular move. It’s for purchase. That’s when I was really like ‘Oh nah, this can’t go on too long.'”
The Milly Rock, renamed "Swipe It" in the video game, is one of more than 100 dances called emotes Fortnite players can buy for roughly $5. That's where 2 Milly takes issue.
The Milly Rock is a move that 2 Milly popularized when he uploaded a video of himself dancing to it on top of a car, with a song to accompany the dance moves. The dance became the next sensation since the Shmoney Dance four years ago. The dance resurfaced after Playboi Carti mentioned it in his 2017 record, “Magnolia.”
2 Milly hopes to pursue legal action against Fortnite's maker Epic Games for using the Milly Rock, but he faces some tough steps to get there.

"There's a lot of case lawsuits surrounding the copyright of music. Lyrics. Sounds. There's a full body of case law related to that. But regarding choreographic works, that does not exist," business and entertainment lawyer Merlyne Jean-Louis said.
Epic Games declined to comment on our story. You can no longer buy the Swipe It emote on Fortnite. It was one of the dances players could "unlock" in the game's fifth season. But if you own it, you can continue to use it – for now.
I'm not well versed in US copyright law. I know that choreography is definitely protected by copyright law but to what extent? This will definitely set an interesting precedent.
 
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Danzflor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,305
Well, yeah, he's gonna have a thought time since the whole copyright law doesn't specify very well where dance movements lands in order to get rights to them, but if anything happens and the lawsuit do proceeds, oh boy I expect things to blow (the whole dancing should not be copyrighted vs you are entitled to your money rights for your creations, etc).
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,270
I’ll get interested when he actually sues. It’ll be nice to have this settled.

Feels like we hear about this stuff all the time.
 

base_two

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,121
This is one instance where I have to agree with the fact that a blatant erasure of culture and whitewash occured. The Milly Rock had been popular for years in the Hip-hop community, but now of sudden its become known as a "Fortnite dance" off of the sheer popularity of the game and those not in the know of its origins. That was intentional.
 
Dec 21, 2017
8,377
If they sue and win this will set a new precedent for dance moves in all video games. Interested to see where it all goes.
 

panecasio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,641
Toronto, ON
This is one instance where I have to agree with the fact that a blatant erasure of culture and whitewash occured. The Milly Rock had been popular for years in the Hip-hop community, but now of sudden its become known as a "Fortnite dance" off of the sheer popularity of the game and those not in the know of its origins.
100%

Creators should get paid for their stuff. Arrangements should be made so that attribution is there for the dances as well, so that if people want to check out the creator of the dance, they know how to find (out more about) them.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,871
I think the dance creators who Fortnite stole from have a pretty good case considering many people, including myself, thought the dances were invented for Fortnite (notwithstanding how ridiculously lame they are).

The dances are associated with Fortnite to the extent that I do think they drive the game’s popularity.

It’s time billionaire companies stop stealing IPs generally.
 

jawzpause

Member
Nov 7, 2017
615
Good i hope he wins, fortnite have just made money off of these stolen dance moves and not at all credited the people who made them
 

CountAntonius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,246
Not mad at him. Not sure if he’ll win nor what it means for every other game that has taken from popular culture for emotes for decades.
 

Stiler

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
5,544
I don't think he fully grasps what this will mean if it is allowed and he wins.

That means every dance movie will be copyrightable.

That means if he (or anyone else) sees another artist use a dance move then they themselves can be sued it they decide to dance in one of their music videos.

Also you need to prove you own it, there are plenty of dance movies that are made popular, not from the actual creator of the move, but from a celeb or someone else using it in a video or video.

Do you REALLY want people to not be able to fucking dance and use random dance moves that they see other people using? Because that is exactly where this road can lead if it's ruled in his favor.
 

Bhonar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,066
We'll see what the law and outcome says.

Most of you are replying just with how you think it should be, but that's not necessarily what the law will decide.
 
OP
OP
vestan

vestan

Member
Dec 28, 2017
8,957
I don't think he fully grasps what this will mean if it is allowed and he wins.

That means every dance movie will be copyrightable.

That means if he (or anyone else) sees another artist use a dance move then they themselves can be sued it they decide to dance in one of their music videos.

Also you need to prove you own it, there are plenty of dance movies that are made popular, not from the actual creator of the move, but from a celeb or someone else using it in a video or video.

Do you REALLY want people to not be able to fucking dance and use random dance moves that they see other people using? Because that is exactly where this road can lead if it's ruled in his favor.
Gotta love the slippery slope fallacy at play here. Creators should be reimbursed.
 

Kyzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,722
User Warned: Arguing in bad faith.
I wonder if the shirtless kid from the meme video where he dances in his room will also sue

Does that not also count as whitewashing and erasing culture btw or does it only become that important if the dance is popular in modern hip hop ? What about the guy DJ'ing and pumping his fist? The guy doing the 70s jig? Seems like people conveniently ignore all but two or three dances in the game in order to make the argument way more serious than it really needs to be.

How about we debate the compensation of content creators, and not pretend like Fortnite was created as first blood in the race wars.

Edit: How am I arguing in bad faith? How is this an infraction?
 
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Razor Mom

Member
Jan 2, 2018
2,193
United Kingdom
Seems kind of absurd, it's a body movement.. no doubt "inspired" by someone else.
From what I can gather, the law recognises full routines, that is, choreography, as being protected by copyright, but individual moves as not. They are, in essence, the "words that make up a sentence", and cannot be copy protected. That was the wording of a lawyer interviewed on the matter, I'll see if I can find it.
Edit: Pretty sure it was the very same Merlyne Jean-Louis as in the article
 

Bessy67

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,305
Man, think how insanely rich some German family would be if they had been able to copyright the waltz...
 

panecasio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,641
Toronto, ON
panecasio said:
I don't think he fully grasps what this will mean if it is allowed and he wins.

That means every dance movie will be copyrightable.

That means if he (or anyone else) sees another artist use a dance move then they themselves can be sued it they decide to dance in one of their music videos.

Also you need to prove you own it, there are plenty of dance movies that are made popular, not from the actual creator of the move, but from a celeb or someone else using it in a video or video.

Do you REALLY want people to not be able to fucking dance and use random dance moves that they see other people using? Because that is exactly where this road can lead if it's ruled in his favor.
Hey guys do you like my post? I'll sell it to you for $5.
 

angel

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,333
From what I can gather, the law recognises full routines, that is, choreography, as being protected by copyright, but individual moves as not. They are, in essence, the "words that make up a sentence", and cannot be copy protected. That was the wording of a lawyer interviewed on the matter, I'll see if I can find it.
Now that sounds about right, nice one. And of course did this milly person model, texture and animate the character? Sounds like no case.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,764
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rapper-2-milly-accuses-fortnite-of-stealing-his-dance-moves-milly-rock-emote/
http://www.xxlmag.com/news/2018/11/2-milly-accuses-fornite-stealing-dance-moves-video-games/











I'm not well versed in US copyright law. I know that choreography is definitely protected by copyright law but to what extent? 2 Milly has a really strong case to stand on here. This will definitely set an interesting precedent.
Typically it depends upon the length of the choreographic work. A dance consisting of only a few moves is going to have issues in the courts. As that entertainment lawyer says though, it's not a subject with tons of precedent and case law like music. It's a lot more clear if we were talking about a dance number in a musical or a ballet or something. Hell, even something as long and involved as Beyonce's dance number in "Put a Ring On It" would probably have no issues being copyrighted. Copyright expressly does not protect individual dance moves though, or a small set of moves strung to together. Ultimately a judge will have to decide, or the two parties will settle.

I think it's good he is suing though, it will force Epic to consider at least crediting other artists or coming up with their own choreography entirely.
 

Rondras

Banned
Aug 28, 2018
538
If he wins Epic is fucked cause everyone will start going after them.
But dances don't have a copyright, usually.
 

Bunzy

Member
Nov 1, 2018
451
This is one instance where I have to agree with the fact that a blatant erasure of culture and whitewash occured. The Milly Rock had been popular for years in the Hip-hop community, but now of sudden its become known as a "Fortnite dance" off of the sheer popularity of the game and those not in the know of its origins. That was intentional.

I agree that it does suck but legally does he have a leg to stand on. Does one have to copyright a dance? I really don’t know I’m asking, but it seem like it would be hard if your only claim was look at my video from years prior of me doing this dance
 

NegativeCero

Member
Oct 28, 2017
225
I went back and forth with this one, but I think that he should get some compensation for originating it and having this giant corporation making money off of his popularized dance.
 

Flame Lord

Member
Oct 26, 2017
790
I definitely think it's bogus how they rename the dances, if you're not going to pay the artist for it the least you can do is credit them.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,764
I don't think he fully grasps what this will mean if it is allowed and he wins.

That means every dance movie will be copyrightable.

That means if he (or anyone else) sees another artist use a dance move then they themselves can be sued it they decide to dance in one of their music videos.

Also you need to prove you own it, there are plenty of dance movies that are made popular, not from the actual creator of the move, but from a celeb or someone else using it in a video or video.

Do you REALLY want people to not be able to fucking dance and use random dance moves that they see other people using? Because that is exactly where this road can lead if it's ruled in his favor.
Not necessarily. If a judge actually rules on this case (unlikely, chances are they will settle) then it only applies to this case. It sets precedent that can be used to back up claims in other cases, but copyright infringement is decided on a case by case basis.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,297
Good. Tired of people on Era trying to defend Epic for making money off of these dances when they should be compensated. “You can’t copyright a dance!” Fuck out of here.