Raven told staff they will be embedding their QA workers into other departments

[Solidsnakejej]

Edit: As developers have point out(threadmarks), Embedding QA into other teams helps everyone involved. In a vacuum this is a good move but considering what is going on from the outside it seems like a union busting attempt.

Wonder why they would be doing something like this, Can't be because of the unionization efforts could it? Can't unionize a department if the department doesn't exist or separate them so they'll be less organized?

Either way, Union Busting in full effect.

 

[elenarie]

This is not union busting. It is how many other studios, including unionised ones, work.

It is a great move for the QA team. It gets them closer to the rest of their teammates. They have better exposure and potential for more opportunities. It is how QA should actually function and not be this terrible oursourcing-like and vendor-like structure that some studios still have where QA are considered a separate and isolated team.

Speaking as a worker in an unionised workplace where QA folks are directly embedded into each feature team, rather being part of an isolated team.

 

[jmsebastian]

Unless the union puts out a statement that this is something they were hoping to achieve, I am going to remain incredibly skeptical that this is anything but a union busting effort. Because companies are always trying to union bust. It's the only thing they enjoy more than increasing their stock price via massive layoffs.

 

[Primus]

Yup, this is a union busting move.

 

[5taquitos]

This is not union busting. It is how many other studios, including unionised ones, work.

It is a great move for the QA team. It gets them closer to the rest of their teammates. They have better exposure and potential for more opportunities. It is how QA should actually function and not be this terrible oursourcing-like and vendor-like structure that some studios still have where QA are considered a separate and isolated team.

Speaking as a worker in an unionised workplace.

Click to shrink...

I'll be waiting and seeing on this one...

 

[Hecht]

This is not union busting. It is how many other studios, including unionised ones, work.

It is a great move for the QA team. It gets them closer to the rest of their teammates. They have better exposure and potential for more opportunities. It is how QA should actually function and not be this terrible oursourcing-like and vendor-like structure that some studios still have where QA are considered a separate and isolated team.

Speaking as a worker in an unionised workplace.

Click to shrink...

I agree, in general - QA should be embedded throughout the process. Not only for the reasons you mentioned, but by not being some third-party effort they tend to have a better understanding of everything that they're going to be checking.

All that said, given all of the anti-union sentiment in the gaming industry (well, not the workers, but the higher-ups), I'll be interested to see if this changes anything with Raven, especially due to recent events.

 

[Solidsnakejej]

This is not union busting. It is how many other studios, including unionised ones, work.

It is a great move for the QA team. It gets them closer to the rest of their teammates. They have better exposure and potential for more opportunities. It is how QA should actually function and not be this terrible oursourcing-like and vendor-like structure that some studios still have where QA are considered a separate and isolated team.

Speaking as a worker in an unionised workplace.

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Yes, but the situation where these workers have been on strike for a month and a half and are finally back in the office waiting for either ABK to recognize their union or it going to vote is a suspicious timing to separate the members.

 

[OryxTheBakinKing]

Yup, this is a union busting move.

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Did you read the post just above yours? Lol

 

[Primus]

Did you read the post just above yours? Lol

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Believing this is any sort of good-faith effort by Activision at this point is a fool's errand.

 

[elenarie]

I agree, in general - QA should be embedded throughout the process. Not only for the reasons you mentioned, but by not being some third-party effort they tend to have a better understanding of everything that they're going to be checking.

All that said, given all of the anti-union sentiment in the gaming industry (well, not the workers, but the higher-ups), I'll be interested to see if this changes anything with Raven, especially due to recent events.

Click to shrink...

Yea, it could end up being whatever, but so far this sounds like a great first step towards making their workplace environment and prospects better.

 

[disparate]

Embedding QA with engineering a bog-standard process lol, do the people insisting suspicious have any experience with development?

 

[fenners]

Embedded QA is the best QA.

 

[drzzrd]

This just creates division in the QA group. The embedded QA start acting entitled and forget where they came from. The bulk of the scripted testing and shit they don't want to do will go to the QA farm team. You can only embed so many QA members. Thus, you have class division within QA itself. This is the model they use at EA.

 

[OryxTheBakinKing]

Believing this is any sort of good-faith effort by Activision at this point is a fool's errand.

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A verified game dev who actually has perspective on a unionized workplace posts their take and you call them a fool?

 

[drzzrd]

Embedded QA is the best QA.

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See, you already have this attitude here.

 

[thankyoumerzbow]

this sounds like good ol union busting but i dunno, lets wait for someone at raven to speak up.

 

[disparate]

This just creates division in the QA group. The embedded QA start acting entitled and forget where they came from. The bulk of the scripted testing and shit they don't want to do will go to the QA farm team. You can only embed so many QA members. Thus, you have class division within QA itself. This is the model they use at EA.

Click to shrink...

I honestly can't tell whether people are telling jokes or being jokes.

 

[BobLoblaw]

Embedding QA with engineering a bog-standard process lol, do the people insisting suspicious have any experience with development?

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You already know the answer. Lol

 

[disparate]

Embedding QA with staff whose work they'll be checking, something everyone does because it's a better process is nefarious.

 

[fenners]

See, you already have this attitude here.

Click to shrink...

Attitude? Embedded QA works closer with the developers, catches bugs and issues quicker, and build specialized skills. It's absolutely essential for development these days.

It's where QA peeps should want to be for growth and career prospects.

 

[facepalm007]

The majority of studios I was a part of have a similar "embedded QA" structure. Overall I feel this is a good thing since QA can learn the process of those specialized fields and potentially learn enough skills to excel in their careers outside of QA, which is ultimately what a lot of QA people are aiming for.

Problem is that is kind of weakens the mindset of the "QA Group" as a whole since the majority of the time individual members are hanging out with the devs instead of other QA members. Whether that is the goal of ABK is unknown to me, but ultimately this would depend on how the QA themselves react to the change.

 

[headfallsoff]

This is obviously union busting. Whether Embedded QA is a better process is irrelevant to the facts that these workers formed a union and then literally immediately afterwards their department was structurally dissolved and reorganized. To seriously entertain the possibility that this is not union busting and is instead simply smart efficent organization is to buy the bosses bullshit hook, line and sinker. You can't take this decision out of its context.

 

[disparate]

Attitude? Embedded QA works closer with the developers, catches bugs and issues quicker, and build specialized skills. It's absolutely essential for development these days.

It's where QA peeps should want to be for growth and career prospects.

Click to shrink...

People: I wanna get into game Dev through QA and work with engineers to understand game Dev better
Some ResetEra posters: this is class division

 

[CorpseLight]

I dont have a career in the games industry, but I do work in QA and I work directly with the other departments and literally nothing gets done without me signing off on it.

 

[Dyle]

That seemed like the bulk of what they were asking for anyway, just to be treated like any other employee. Often that's enough to stop any union effort, even if it's just in the name of more efficient work

 

[Beer Monkey]

As a non-game developer of software and data services, I can't even imagine what it would be like to have QA outside of the team anymore, my last gig which was over 10 years had embedded QA and it was a major improvement.

 

[5taquitos]

This is obviously union busting. Whether Embedded QA is a better process is irrelevant to the facts that these workers formed a union and then literally immediately afterwards their department was structurally dissolved and reorganized. To seriously entertain the possibility that this is not union busting and is instead simply smart efficent organization is to buy the bosses bullshit hook, line and sinker. You can't take this decision out of its context.

Click to shrink...

Exactly. Who cares if it's best practice, you have to look at the timing and the effect on the group unionization efforts. Why implement this now?

 

[drzzrd]

I honestly can't tell whether people are telling jokes or being jokes.

Click to shrink...

Attitude? Embedded QA works closer with the developers, catches bugs and issues quicker, and build specialized skills. It's absolutely essential for development these days.

It's where QA peeps should want to be for growth and career prospects.

Click to shrink...

I'm not saying embedded QA is bad. In fact, it's necessary. But only the embedded QA is full time. What about the rest? The majority of your QA team will be contracted out and the embedded QA basically call the shots on who gets converted or laid off.

 

[internet rabbit]

yeah, gonna have to agree. embedded QA can and does do wonders for the development process but in the context of the events at Raven? absolutely a union busting move, without question. what a lot of posters are missing here is that it can be both

 

[Lobster Roll]

The first response to the thread is from an actual game developer and their response gets handwaved or ignored. Alright.

 

[5taquitos]

The first response to the thread is from an actual game developer and their response gets handwaved or ignored. Alright.

Click to shrink...

That game developer is in a studio that (according to them) already has a functioning union. That's a big difference.

 

[Jakenbakin]

They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. Without more knowledge of where the unionization efforts currently are, or how those employees feel about the change, I'm fine with not having a decisive opinion on the matter until I know more, but my initial reaction is definitely one of scepticism.

That said it doesn't matter to my general wishes, which is that I hope the employees get all they want and more.

 

[GPink]

This is obviously union busting. Whether Embedded QA is a better process is irrelevant to the facts that these workers formed a union and then literally immediately afterwards their department was structurally dissolved and reorganized. To seriously entertain the possibility that this is not union busting and is instead simply smart efficent organization is to buy the bosses bullshit hook, line and sinker. You can't take this decision out of its context.

Click to shrink...

Thank you.

If you are going to be effusive about the benefits of embedded QA in a development environment, that's fine. No one is going to argue your experience, or the benefits that you've experienced having embedded QA.
But don't do it for a studio that had their QA department announce their intentions to unionize 3 DAYS AGO, only to immediately be reorganized throughout the company.

 

[Xianese]

What's with this dudes obsession with commas? It's like, he just, doesn't know really, how to, use them.

 

[lorddarkflare]

It is more bizarre to have QA just another singular monolith. This COULD be used for nefarious purposes, but this seems like it is being done for the right reasons.

Edit: oh, wait. They said they were unionizing three days ago? Hmm. So I bet this was already in the plans, but it was implemented as a pre-emptive measure to discourage unionizing or at least make it harder.

 

[disparate]

Thank you.

If you are going to be effusive about the benefits of embedded QA in a development environment, that's fine. No one is going to argue your experience, or the benefits that you've experienced having embedded QA.
But don't do it for a studio that had their QA department announce their intentions to unionize 3 DAYS AGO, only to immediately be reorganized throughout the company.

Click to shrink...

It doesn't matter, it's the right way to organize regardless of union efforts.

 

[elenarie]

I'd like to think this is being done to improve things. Rather remain hopeful than pessimistic. :D

 

[JoJo'sDentCo]

Let's just see what the QA team says about this.

 

[Dark Ninja]

This is good for QA not only will they work along the other devs more but they will be more valued in what they do which could lead to them moving up more often. QA at Activision Blizzard studios might aswell be in a different building entirely from the main devs the way it is currently. Only the leads really talk to anyone the rest are treated as disposable.

 

[FrostweaveBandage]

I personally think this is a great sign. If the only recourse a company has to avoid having their workers unionize is to give a major concession to them preemptively, it shows how few options they really have. Other companies will likely follow suit.

 

[CatAssTrophy]

Nothing is stopping them from unionizing, communicating, organizing, etc. now that they are embedded. It's just a different way to structure work groups.

I'm embedded QA where I work and all the QA people have various Teams channels and chats we're free to make and talk in. We also have each other's phone numbers and text on occasion.

EDIT: I also want to say that it's okay to be a little on the defense as far as unions are concerned, and I can see how at first it would seem like it's an anti-union move. Good to know people are keeping their shields up and not giving companies the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Scottoest]

This is a good move in terms of studio organization. I don't know how it would be inherently "union busting" in a world with email, and when these employees had apparently not been at work for a month and a half anyway. It'd be different if Activision moved them to entirely different studios or something.

If anything it could make it easier for them to spread an organization effort more widely across the studio, which will absolutely be required if it's going to have any hope of succeeding.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

wasn't this what Treyarch's QA was basically asking for back when that article about them came out a few years ago?

 

[Deleted member 6235]

The embedded QA start acting entitled and forget where they came from.

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excuse me, but what the fuck?

 

[Kalentan]

This just creates division in the QA group. The embedded QA start acting entitled and forget where they came from. The bulk of the scripted testing and shit they don't want to do will go to the QA farm team. You can only embed so many QA members. Thus, you have class division within QA itself. This is the model they use at EA.

Click to shrink...

...The fuck?

 

[Hecht]

Looks like Kotaku is running with it

Raven's New 'Organizational Change' Conveniently Breaks Up Union Members

The move comes just as workers return from a seven-week strike

kotaku.com

 

[Deleted member 1003]

I simply have no faith because of Microsoft. No way they was their workers to unionize.

 

[kaishek]

The first response to the thread is from an actual game developer and their response gets handwaved or ignored. Alright.

Click to shrink...

I agree, I think you gotta give Activision the benefit of the doubt here. If for some crazy reason they're lying, well, being positive is free!

 

[Deleted member 43]

I think it's likely the change was already in the works, as the Q&A team was already being reorganized for the past few months (layoffs and making all remaining testers FT), and, as has been stated, this is pretty unquestionably a better setup than what was in place before.

Now, could the unionization have pushed up the timeline to make this happen, both as a carrot to show testers they were making proactive changes, and to possibly hinder union organizing? Of course.

 

[ProstatePuncher]

This would be union busting if they organised feedback groups with members split up and mixed in with regular studio members etc. Actually giving QA more access to other parts of the company is great.

I've previously worked in QA and the best thing was when we were able to sit with designers/producers and speak with them directly about problems we had encountered, whether they be simple errors in scripts, holes in design that got missed but we noticed thanks to repetitive play, or candidly discussing test schedules and pointing out that we simply couldn't cover everything asked of us in the timeframe given. This did lead to content being cut but it was for the overall health of the project, and judging by the reaction to what we eventually released, it was absolutely for the better.

Siloing off QA in a corner and expecting them to just do their job with no ability to put their word in means you'll end up with a denigrated part of the team. Its just as valuable a job as any other. This is a good first step to addressing their treatment in a big studio workhouse like this.