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RE2 Remake Producer : It would be interesting to provide OTS versions of our fixed camera games

P-MAC

P-MAC

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Nov 15, 2017
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2 and 3, I agree. Zero and 1, I don't think anything could be less interesting
 
Booga

Booga

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Finale Fireworker said:
I've heard and read and watched a lot of arguments in favor of fixed camera angles, and I think they objectively make sense, but I've always found playing actual fixed camera games to be less than the sum of their parts. They can create very memorable shots because you control exactly what the player is meant to see. I think those merits are worth speaking to. But I also think the restrictions they can bring regarding movement and combat are not worth the trade off depending on the kind of game you want to make.

It's hard to imagine the shooting systems as they currently exist in virtually any over the shoulder game working properly or correctly in a fixed camera format. If any game is series is going to experiment with selective camera angles again, I would prefer them design a combat system from the ground up.

I think a lock on system that let you selectively target fixed points on an enemy would be interesting. Hold L to lock on to the center point of an enemy. Then use the right stick in one of five directions (sort of like a star shape: head, left arm, right arm, left leg, right leg) and press R2 to fire. If you hold R1 you'll switch your lock on from one enemy to another enemy, which you can aid directionally with the right stick. The gunplay is digital, not analog, but with lots of options of where to shoot.

The star-shape pinpoint system would always be player relative. So whether the enemy is facing the camera or facing away from the camera you would always aim to your right or your left. This would allow a shooter to have dynamic gunplay with enemy weakpoints that could also be relatively fast-moving and strategic. You could quickly shoot a bunch of enemies in the leg, slowing their pace. You could shoot a bunch of enemies in weakpoints on their shoulders. You could aim for the center of the enemy with powerful weapons like a shotgun for maximum damage, or you could aim for the head with weak weapons to make the most of your shot. The lock on system ensures the aiming is easy and because the aiming is player-relative it's not hindered by the fixed camera.

But I don't think any major studio will truly go back to or experiment with fixed camera angles any time soon - or even again, for that matter. That's something I'd like the indie space to catch up to.
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Ok I'm going to get this out of the way. I am ALL FOR the OTS. I think it's great and I don't think it subtracts from the horror vibe of RE like some may claim. I think RE2 REmake is a perfect example of this.

That being said. Fixed camera angles could still work excellently with modern mechanics.

Games like RE3.5 (Hook man version) Silent Hill 0rigins, show us instances where the game uses static camera angles, but when your character prepares an attack, the camera whips in to an OTS view specifically for combat.

If you designed a game to function this way from the ground up, you could easily offer both fixed cameras AND OTS. You could even have a selection to play permanently in OTS should you desire.

RE games like Revelations and Dead Ain showed us that you could mix third and first person together in much the same way, and they worked stunningly well, without the camera transition being too jarring.

Now of course, to design a game this way, everything would need to be modelled in 3D and a lot of planning would be required, but it is fully possible. And part of me even wonders if RE2 REmake may have something like this as an unlockable once you finish the game. I know there were rumours about it being a thing.
 
Finale Fireworker

Finale Fireworker

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Booga said:
Games like RE3.5 (Hook man version) Silent Hill 0rigins, show us instances where the game uses static camera angles, but when your character prepares an attack, the camera whips in to an OTS view specifically for combat.

If you designed a game to function this way from the ground up, you could easily offer both fixed cameras AND OTS. You could even have a selection to play permanently in OTS should you desire.

RE games like Revelations and Dead Ain showed us that you could mix third and first person together in much the same way, and they worked stunningly well, without the camera transition being too jarring.
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I agree that a hybrid camera (basically a standard camera and a combat camera) is another way to evolve on the concept. I actually had a separate section of my post where I proposed something similar but I edited out because I thought the post was too long.

I think the problem we are both getting at here is that fixed camera angles haven't been properly iterated on in many years. Their most recent forms are quite old, with few exceptions, and little experimentation has been done with the format. When someone says "fixed camera", I still think Resident Evil and Grim Fandango. Those are some old games. Good games, but old.

What it would take to bring fixed camera angles back is simply determined experimentation. Somebody needs to set out to build a game around this perspective and design systems that compliment them.

Recreating the exact systems of their heyday, which is unfortunately some of only point of reference we have, is not the answer, in my opinion. That's why I'm glad that RE2 isn't an exact remake like RE1 was. REmake was excellent. But I don't know if it would keep being excellent if we continued to get releases based on strict systems designed 20 years ago.
 
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TheGreatDirector

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Oct 26, 2017
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Until Dawn is a great, modern, fixed camera horror game but it also has nowhere close to the amount of gameplay interactions Resident Evil does.
 
Booga

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Finale Fireworker said:
I agree that a hybrid camera (basically a standard camera and a combat camera) is another way to evolve on the concept. I actually had a separate section of my post where I proposed something similar but I edited out because I thought the post was too long.

I think the problem we are both getting at here is that fixed camera angles haven't been properly iterated on in many years. Their most recent forms are quite old, with few exceptions, and little experimentation has been done with the format. When someone says "fixed camera", I still think Resident Evil and Grim Fandango. Those are some old games. Good games, but old.

What it would take to being fixed camera angles back is simply determined experimentation. Somebody needs to set out to build a game around this perspective and design systems that compliment them.

Recreating the exact systems of their heyday, which is unfortunately some of only point of reference we have, is not the answer, in my opinion. That's why I'm glad that RE2 isn't an exact remake like RE1 was. REmake was excellent. But I don't know if it would keep being excellent if we continued to get releases based on strict systems designed 20 years ago.
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Completely agree with all of this.
 
Duxxy3

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CesareNorrez

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Oct 25, 2017
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Yes do those and then produce Demakes of them all that use those assets but with fixed angles. Then remake those again as OTS with updated graphics for next next gen. Repeat until end of time.
 
Trejo

Trejo

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Oct 25, 2017
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Vela said:
No, fixed camera angles is a lost art. It helps create and establish very specific moods. Just think of how iconic and mood-setting the camera work in Silent Hill 1's prologue was.

Fixed camera angles were unfortunately made extinct by the push to openworld and less linear games. Now over-the-shoulder is such a boring and trite convention that makes almost all games look similar from a visual-aesthetic perspective.

I miss fixed camera angles :'-(
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Agreed.

unicornKnight said:
They suck for action games imo. I hate tank controls and the camera relative barely work as you walk between scenes
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Good thing RE2 and 3 were supposed to be survival horror and not action games, then. Once upon a time, at least. *sigh*
 

Deleted member 6235

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Vela said:
No, fixed camera angles is a lost art. It helps create and establish very specific moods. Just think of how iconic and mood-setting the camera work in Silent Hill 1's prologue was.

Fixed camera angles were unfortunately made extinct by the push to openworld and less linear games. Now over-the-shoulder is such a boring and trite convention that makes almost all games look similar from a visual-aesthetic perspective.

I miss fixed camera angles :'-(
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i mean i think it's cool to miss it and i definitely think it has it's merits

the bolded, though, is not even remotely true
 
Asbsand

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I love everything about what they're doing with the REMAKE

But for the love of god, that producer just said something that represents everything that went wrong with RE.

Imagine if he had said "It would be interesting to see a fixed-camera version of RE7 and RE4." or "It would be interesting to release a patch for RE2 Remake with fixed cameras".

And meanwhile we got Red Dead Redemption 2 which has this "hold touchpad to shift to cinematic camera" mode which is essnetially the same kind of slopey fixed cameras from Code Veronica and we also had another David Cage game, Detroit, which used essentially cinematic and fixed cameras in 2018. It's not some out of date thing, it only is because nobody is doing it and Capcom is misguided about what modernity means.
 
Gunslinger

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Oct 27, 2017
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I think the main line RE games needs a reboot. The plot started out great but by the time 4,5,6 happened it just became a mess. Especially by 6. 5 was a comic book/cartoon tps and it was ok if you play it like that. 6 was just bad. 4 while a great tps also had some great settings that inspired 100s of games like bloodborne, evil within ( I know) last of us etc.
 
Shoshi

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I think they should REngine everything including R3make, Gregory's Horror Show'Em, TEW, Last of Us, Dead Space, Gremlins 2....
 
Asbsand

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Shoshi said:
I think they should REngine everything including R3make, TEW, Last of Us, Dead Space, Gremlins 2....
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They should REngine REmake Code Veronica or RE3 with FIXED CAMERAS so that they will have a solution to fixed-cameras built in to the REngine moving forward and then use that to make an actual sequel that sports fixed cameras, first person and third person the same way GTA or Red Dead basically does that now.
 
Shoshi

Shoshi

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I think Capcom should have a second divison only dealing with fixed cameras called Capcom Fixed Divison.
 
fiendcode

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I'd be fine with it. I can handle either fixed cameras or tank controls but not both together.
 
mute

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On one hand no, but I'd appreciate any attention 3 gets really.
 
FallenGrace

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Oct 27, 2017
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i'd be all over a Remake 3 bringing all the games up to fairly modern standards.

Slightly off topic but with all Capcoms library hitting every system recently, why not the Outbreak games with actual online now Capcom? :(
 
SolidSnakeUS

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Oct 25, 2017
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I wonder if they would take the time to convert this game as is to a mode where it's fixed cameras? I know some of the gameplay elements for the remake are inherently OTS, but it could be very cool though if done correctly.

But yes, we need some fixed camera remakes. They deserve the love too.

This may be unpopular, I don't actually hate tank controls.
 
DrMoguera

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Oct 27, 2017
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I actually think the opposite would be more interesting. But his idea would make more money, definitely.
 
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