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OP
OP
potentialtodisplease
Mar 17, 2018
2,927
Increasing the resolution of the screen will NOT solve the screen door effect. I don't know how many times to explain this to you. No matter how high you increase the resolution, you will still always have a screen door effect unless you affect the pixel density.

NxLBp4l.png


No matter how high you increase the resolution, the gaps between pixels become pronounced at certain points in the image due to the curvature of the lens. Again, you're not familiar with how these terms are used practically in virtual reality. I've explained it in clear detail to you already, but once again -- it doesn't matter the resolution of the screen, it matters how close the pixels are. You need to match the pixel density of the screen to the curvature of the optics (i.e. the lens) to eliminate screen door effect. What that means is, given resolution X, you allocate more pixels in bunches where the optics distort the display to counter the effect. The resolution of the image doesn't matter, you only have X number of pixels. What matters is how and where on the display you pack them closer together. Hence how density matters. It doesn't matter how high of a resolution you go, unless you vary the pixel density, you will always get screen door effect. This is how light works. You're arguing against physics here.

First of all, your first claim is absurd, and completely, factually, 100% wrong.

If the resolution of the display device was say 32K per eye, there is no way you could ever see a pixel on it if pixel pitch keeps being reduced, which it always is. There could be swathes of dead pixels and in VR you would never know. No gap between pixels will be apparent when the pixel cannot even be seen.

The curvature of a lens does not suddenly make physical gaps between pixels any bigger or smaller than they actually are. It distorts the view of them. The view of them is still an image based on the actual resolution of the screen. Dot pitch as we have explained on an 8K 70 inch TV is better than some 1080p TVs below 20 inches. Again, you clearly are just spouting extremely poor rhetoric here. When you say you only have X number of pixels, this is also illogical as this only matters on today's tech, which will easily be surpassed within a couple years. Few care about removing screen door on max 1440p devices. It's not going to happen, and the resolution is too poor to form photorealistic worlds anyway. We need at least 4K for that because we are so close to the screen. Can you see the space between pixels on your 42 inch TV in 1080p? No, you can't unless you get an inch away from it. Same logic applies here. On a 16K 42 inch screen you could not even see a dead pixel from distance. It's debateable if you could see one with a naked eye from short distance. Nevermind 16K at 6 inches or something lol. You could magnify that all you want for VR purposes. Not happening. SDE is effectively dead when we get to 16K.

You say I am arguing against physics, which is also another preposterous claim. It has to do with pixel spacing on a given display size. When you have a display with 32 million pixels you can afford to not care as much about any density issues across any uneven sections. And it still has to do with resolution because of display standards. I have never seen a major resolution increase not follow with a dot/pixel pitch shift downward. They might not be all intrinsically linked, but they sure as hell are linked in some way. I cannot believe you keep arguing that pixel density has nothing to do with resolution, when it is literally defined as a factor with display size. Even when you attenuate for depth and curvature and all kinds of other mathematical problems resolution is still the base standard of potential detail the display can produce. The smaller the pixels the less any dot pitch problems will persist on the same display type following current methods of production.
 
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OP
OP
potentialtodisplease
Mar 17, 2018
2,927
The GT Sport one sucks because of limited content, but the driving VR experience itself is very good, that's what I meant to talk about, sorry did not make clear. I don't mind because I don't play VR often and it's a nice showcase. Added depth is really awesome for the GT experience. It is limited to 1 v 1 I believe and Time trial and only certain tracks I think also. I think pretty much any cars though.

Wipeout VR is a tack on to the game but it just feels really good and organic and being able to look around in loops really changes how it feels, it actually feels slower and more easy to respond to turns because of the added dimension it's quite cool.

Farpoint is nice with the enemy design and variety, pretty challenging, though did give me some headaches and nausea for playing too much, I do better with the track racing like in GT or Wipeout.

I don't have really any preference of PS VR titles, RE7 regardless is just an awesome standout title, not anything to do with platform, CAPCOM just knocked it out of the park. I played it when it first came out like that and a bunch of people were over to try it near that time too and everyone was just blown away, we tried some other titles too but nothing came close to RE7 experience, just really awesome. I really hope they port it to PC for the VR mode. It's really incredible.

I too would surely welcome more GT Sport improvements so I hope they keep sticking with it.

Farpoint seemed pretty cool, but it did get me a tiny bit dizzy after a while. I was never quite comfortable with the DS4 sensitivity on the stick. Really wish we could adjust it.
 

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
My gf and I want to get the vive (she wants it mainly because of tilt brush), I really hope they'll port RE7 VR to PC soon, I wanna shit my pants....

Tiltbrush is indeed a must-buy for all VR users


But i will recommend her to buy an Oculus Rift because it has Oculus Quill which can do Vr animation, and HTC Vive is still sold out in many places and hard to find
 

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
No no, not a stealth brag. Don't take it as that, it wasn't intended to be. Just surprised to see you miss out so many games that are both critically acclaimed and generally considered by VR gamers to be some of the best VR titles. I thought the consensus was that the VR mode in GT Sport was awful, that was all!



Was just surprised that the only other games that compete with RE7 was GT Sport and Wipeout. Wondered if it was because you might not've played anything outside of the PSVR library (which is quite a limited selection of VR stuff in the grand scheme of things - both quantity wise and technologically). Sounds like you've tried others though and just prefer those PSVR games. That's cool!

the PSVR library is kinda limited and still lacks AAA selection in VR unlike on the PC, so having RE7 or GT Sports up there on the PSVR isn't very surprising.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
the PSVR library is kinda limited and still lacks AAA selection in VR unlike on the PC, so having RE7 or GT Sports up there on the PSVR isn't very surprising.

I agree, it's just that they hadn't specified PSVR, they'd said

Hands down the best VR title.

The only ones that compete for me are the (limited) GT Sport VR and Wipeout VR

I assumed they actually meant 'hands down the best PSVR title' but they say they've played other VR stuff and still think RE7, GTS and Wipeout are the best. That's fine. I disagree - but opinions.
 

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
They have played other VR stuffs, but those are mostly B-tier titles and not mindblowing ones Beat Saber, Google Earth or TiltBrush or Lone Echo I believe.
 

DanteMenethil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,054
Similarly, OP, if you really like what RE7 has to offer, and you have a PC and can get your hands on a VR headset there, try Alien Isolation. It's very much the same style game, even played with a gamepad. Unlike RE7, however, Alien Isolation has a full neck model rigged to the headset's position, so your head can move around and make noise in the game. It's actually part of the gameplay mechanic.

Absolutely terrifying game.

Is there a mod or something to play Alien Isolation with modern VR headsets? I remember playing it with my Rift DK2 years ago
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
Sprint Vector definitely does about as much as the PSVR can I think.

I would agree with that. Sprint Vector is fairly limited in control though. It's mainly waving your arms around. It's a far distance away from 1:1 room scale hand and body tracking that we see in a lot of VR titles. I like Sprint Vector though. It's a fairly basic game but it's a good workout!

I'm hoping that Beat Saber makes it over to the PSVR with good motion controls because that'll likely be a new shining star of Move controls on the platform. It's lovely.
 
OP
OP
potentialtodisplease
Mar 17, 2018
2,927
I would agree with that. Sprint Vector is fairly limited in control though. It's mainly waving your arms around. It's a far distance away from 1:1 room scale hand and body tracking that we see in a lot of VR titles. I like Sprint Vector though. It's a fairly basic game but it's a good workout!

I'm hoping that Beat Saber makes it over to the PSVR with good motion controls because that'll likely be a new shining star of Move controls on the platform. It's lovely.

I'll keep an eye out for that one.
 

Deleted member 984

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,203
Dirt Rally with a wheel, all assists off and no HUD is still my favorite VR content. Demanding, intense, requires skill and nothing gets even remotely close to the sensation of speed (Wipeout feels slow in comparison) and the risk-reward nature knowing you are millimeters away from ending everything and the thrill of getting as close to that as fast as possible. I wish it felt even less like a game and was more sim focused.

In more traditional gaming terms Superhot VR has been my favorite. Loved speed running that game and doing all the challenges.

I've enjoyed nearly everything I have played even something that hasn't been so great has always had something interesting and always make time for VR content. Torn is going to be my next VR purchase and Stormland is my most anticipated despite not owning a Rift.

What I'm looking forward to most in VR is when creators figure out how to tell compelling narratives that fully take advantage of the experiental nature. The gaming aspect is one of the lowest on my list if I'm honest, I have found in games like Skyrim VR and Resident Evil 7 the game has got in the way of the sense of exploration/adventure/engagement and can't wait for developers to throw away a lot of the gaming mindset in VR, lots of standards in gaming are solutions to problems that don't exist in VR or can be handled so much better (and have been).
 
OP
OP
potentialtodisplease
Mar 17, 2018
2,927
Dirt Rally with a wheel, all assists off and no HUD is still my favorite VR content. Demanding, intense, requires skill and nothing gets even remotely close to the sensation of speed (Wipeout feels slow in comparison) and the risk-reward nature knowing you are millimeters away from ending everything and the thrill of getting as close to that as fast as possible. I wish it felt even less like a game and was more sim focused.

In more traditional gaming terms Superhot VR has been my favorite. Loved speed running that game and doing all the challenges.

I've enjoyed nearly everything I have played even something that hasn't been so great has always had something interesting and always make time for VR content. Torn is going to be my next VR purchase and Stormland is my most anticipated despite not owning a Rift.

What I'm looking forward to most in VR is when creators figure out how to tell compelling narratives that fully take advantage of the experiental nature. The gaming aspect is one of the lowest on my list if I'm honest, I have found in games like Skyrim VR and Resident Evil 7 the game has got in the way of the sense of exploration/adventure/engagement and can't wait for developers to throw away a lot of the gaming mindset in VR, lots of standards in gaming are solutions to problems that don't exist in VR or can be handled so much better (and have been).

This is also what I am waiting for. Compelling narratives. Hell, I would love to get into writing for some of the future games.
 

Deleted member 984

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,203
This is also what I am waiting for. Compelling narratives. Hell, I would love to get into writing for some of the future games.

I'm still waiting for gaming to step up in storytelling. Thomas was Alone, Dys4ia, God of War, and The Last of Us has been the strongest so far (that I've played) but still got a long way to go, especially to stop relying on fantasy/sci-fi elements to drive interest despite not being necessary for the stories told.

Gaming really would massively benefit from exploring a wider gamut of narrative genres and likely get more respect from other creative industries/journalism if they do, way too much of a fixation in the low-brow. It's slowly getting better. That and an over-reliance on violence as drivers of gameplay focus are my biggest criticisms of the medium as a whole, its great to see VR is already bucking this trend being super experimental though still very much in its infancy and a refreshing lack of nostalgia fixation from indie developers so getting lots of great original ideas.
 

Jumpman64

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
550
The first game that I played and sold me on VR was Battlezone on PSVR at Eurogamers EGX show, just before PSVR came out, that was the moment I fell in love with VR and made me glad I had pre-ordered a PSVR. The sense of immersion, actually being inside a videogame, was a "holy shit, this is like Tron" moment for me.

Yeah RE7 is genuinely one of the best and terrifying gaming experiences I've ever had. That first section outside the house, your thinking, oh this is pretty cool but getting to the house and looking through the first door into pitch black and knowing you have to walk inside, is a big nope moment lol


Lol same feeling I had when I started. Remembering how creepy the woods felt being out there and al alone, it felt so real. Then knowing I had to go inside took so much courage haha.

Vr resident evil 7 is by far the best gaming experience I have had since Mario 64. Without question
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
The exclusivity has been expired for months. It's honestly possible that if Sony hadn't funded the VR mode in the first place there would have not been VR, hence why they might not want to use funds to do it on PC. That's my guess.
So there is no proof for Sony funding it.
Do you think they also funded Batman:Arkham VR? That was also a timed exclusive.
 

Laser Man

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,683
I play RE7 with a controller, and on Madhouse I am not sure I would want something else unless it were really accurate. But as for shooting yeah shooting with the head sucks balls at times lol.

I hate aiming with your head, that nearly made me stop playing NOLF2 in VR. It feels completely wrong and broken, it's so much better using your actual hands and aiming with your arms extended towards an enemy, it makes a world of difference to me. It's why I would always hold a game like Organ Quarter in higher regards in VR than RE7, despite the latter having the much bigger budget and the better reputation as a game.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,624
So there is no proof for Sony funding it.
Do you think they also funded Batman:Arkham VR? That was also a timed exclusive.

Considering Batman: Arkham VR came to PC after it's exclusivity and yet we're 6 months out from RE7 VR's exclusivity deal being over and still no ports, so no I don't think so.

But I wouldn't be surprised if Sony footed the bill for the VR mode for RE7 since they knew it could be a big hit in the VR space. Otherwise, if Sony hadn't helped fund the PSVR version and only paid for exclusivity, why not release it to PC?
 

HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
I want a PSVR but I feel like i need to get a Pro first. And I need a 4k TV to truly justify getting a Pro.
 

Electro

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,899
Vienna
the PSVR library is kinda limited and still lacks AAA selection in VR unlike on the PC, so having RE7 or GT Sports up there on the PSVR isn't very surprising.

There are also other bigger games like Wipeout VR, The Persistence, Dirt Rally VR or upcoming titles like Firewall, Astro Bot, Deracine, Blood & Truth, Tetris Effect, Ace Combat 7.

But I already learned that you don't like PSVR...
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
Considering Batman: Arkham VR came to PC after it's exclusivity and yet we're 6 months out from RE7 VR's exclusivity deal being over and still no ports, so no I don't think so.

But I wouldn't be surprised if Sony footed the bill for the VR mode for RE7 since they knew it could be a big hit in the VR space. Otherwise, if Sony hadn't helped fund the PSVR version and only paid for exclusivity, why not release it to PC?
This is still no proof at all. All we know is that Sony paid two times for timed exclusivity for their accessory which doesn't even compete with the competition as PSVR is only available for PlayStation while the competition is only available for PC, thus hurting the tech itself, in my opinion. Timed exclusivity is bad in general but for a tech that is trying to find a bigger audience, it's even worse.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,624
This is still no proof at all. All we know is that Sony paid two times for timed exclusivity for their accessory which doesn't even compete with the competition as PSVR is only available for PlayStation while the competition is only available for PC, thus hurting the tech itself, in my opinion. Timed exclusivity is bad in general but for a tech that is trying to find a bigger audience, it's even worse.

I... I don't even get what you're arguing at this point. Never mind this. You're talking about way more than what I was talking about.
 

THIJJ

Member
Oct 26, 2017
449
Was really disappointed the PC version of RE7 never got VR support. I actually held off on playing It, thinking it might come.

That Sony check must've been nice
 

cakefoo

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,407
if Sony hadn't helped fund the PSVR version and only paid for exclusivity, why not release it to PC?
Would half of PCVR owners hate on it for being so last-gen in terms of input?
Would PCVR owners hate it if Capcom released it as paid DLC?
Would it be worth the investment to incorporate handtracking?
Would it be better to just build the next game from the ground up with handtracking in mind?
 

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
There are also other bigger games like Wipeout VR, The Persistence, Dirt Rally VR or upcoming titles like Firewall, Astro Bot, Deracine, Blood & Truth, Tetris Effect, Ace Combat 7.

But I already learned that you don't like PSVR...

um, I have a PSVR and RE7 myself. those titles are big on the PSVR, but they ain't AAA tier except Deracine and Ace Combat 7...and there's limited VR on Ace Combat 7 again, like Gran Turismo.
 
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Electro

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,899
Vienna
Is it confirmed that Sony paid for Resi 7 PSVR exclusivity ?

Maybe for Capcom a PCVR version is not worth the work....
 

ClarkusDarkus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,722
the PSVR library is kinda limited and still lacks AAA selection in VR unlike on the PC, so having RE7 or GT Sports up there on the PSVR isn't very surprising.

It's not limited at all, Also AAA selection is decent too, RE7 alone trumps all the PCVR options AAA wise other than maybe Lone Echo, Even that's that's mainly because of Lone Echos controls. PSVR has a vast library to choose from now.

Never heard anyone say PSVR's library is limited before, The headset itself yes, But not the library.
 
OP
OP
potentialtodisplease
Mar 17, 2018
2,927
I hate aiming with your head, that nearly made me stop playing NOLF2 in VR. It feels completely wrong and broken, it's so much better using your actual hands and aiming with your arms extended towards an enemy, it makes a world of difference to me. It's why I would always hold a game like Organ Quarter in higher regards in VR than RE7, despite the latter having the much bigger budget and the better reputation as a game.

Ehh, RE7 is a very high quality game regardless. Yeah, aiming with head is weird, but I got used to it. It definitely will get better, but I'm not doing Organ Quarter over RE7.
 

UltraJay

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,573
Australia
Probably going to get that cheap RE7 on cdkeys.com and try it with vorpx as it will mimic the head aim and gamepad control of psvr.

Won't match the motion controls of Doom 3 though.
 

Electro

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,899
Vienna
It's not limited at all, Also AAA selection is decent too, RE7 alone trumps all the PCVR options AAA wise other than maybe Lone Echo, Even that's that's mainly because of Lone Echos controls. PSVR has a vast library to choose from now.

Yeah, watched some best Oculus and Vive game lists and I can't see much AAA exclusive titles beside Lone Echo, Robo Recall or L.A Noire...

Every headset has some strong exclusives imo.
But only PSVR gets Astro Bot :D
 

ClarkusDarkus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,722
Yeah, watched some best Oculus and Vive game lists and I can't see much AAA exclusive titles beside Lone Echo, Robo Recall or L.A Noire...

Every headset has some strong exclusives imo.
But only PSVR gets Astro Bot :D
There's barely any in the AAA space for PCVR, Weird statement to make, ahh well. PSVR will soon add Astro bot/Blood money/Deracine too the AAA space aswell.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
I'm jealous. I fucking love this game and beat it four times in a row, back to back, getting all cheevos before the DLC added more (super rare for me) - only, I played on PC.

I heard that this was VR's killer app. Too bad it's exclusive. And with my slim PS4, by the sound of things, it's far from ideal.
 

Zombine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,231
I love horror games. I generally have no issue jumping into the unknown and don't get traditionally scared playing them. With that said, Resident Evil 7 in VR genuinely scared the absolute shit out of me. I couldn't even play the entire thing in VR. It's so intense and frightening that I worried I would actually have a heart attack.
 

Electro

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,899
Vienna
I love horror games. I generally have no issue jumping into the unknown and don't get traditionally scared playing them. With that said, Resident Evil 7 in VR genuinely scared the absolute shit out of me. I couldn't even play the entire thing in VR. It's so intense and frightening that I worried I would actually have a heart attack.

You should never play The Persistence ;)

Imo more scarier than Resi 7.
 

afrodubs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,093
Must admit I don't understand the to and fro between PCVR and PSVR fans. We all have good games and we all like the same medium. Why denigrate eachothers hardware and software options?

Anyway I agree fully with OP RE7 is God tier. That game took me nearly a year to complete because I couldn't handle it for months, could only do short sessions as the tension was so much. Not even the jump scares, just the constant tension of being in the bloody house. So good!

The first game that I played and sold me on VR was Battlezone on PSVR at Eurogamers EGX show, just before PSVR came out, that was the moment I fell in love with VR and made me glad I had pre-ordered a PSVR. The sense of immersion, actually being inside a videogame, was a "holy shit, this is like Tron" moment for me.
Same for me too, tried Alien Isolation on the Oculus at the previous EGX which sold me on VR. Battlezone sold me on PSVR.
Always at least one ;-)
I will admit the Aim controller did sour my Farpoint experience somewhat. I did try all the camera adjustments to have it work fine (having it high is the 'general' fix) but there will always be a point where occlusion is a problem with enemies arriving from 180degrees vertically/horizontally as you aim down the sights (with the PSVR and Aim controller being tracked optically and then overlapping). I had to finish the game holding the gun at near hip-height.
That's fair enough, The AIM does have some issues but we didn't end up fixing the shaking. It does work well with the DS4 too, Fully fracked so tilting the pad tilts the gun kinda thing and shooting rockets while moving the pad directs them.
It's a shame you both had issues with the AIM controller as it's great. I had similar issues initially but once I got my camera, lighting and room setup right it was on point and has been ever since. Can't wait for Firewall ZH.
I thought the consensus was that the VR mode in GT Sport was awful, that was all!
No. It's excellent. It's just limited. Most of the complaining about the VR part off the game is based around that.
...and there's limited VR on Ace Combat 7 again, like Gran Turismo.
Have You Played It? Because that's not the conclusion I've come to based off what I've heard and seen. All I've heard is that it's discrete missions without cut scenes and after playing previous ACs I can see why they'd make that change. There's supposed to be a decent sized package with several hours worth of content.
You should never play The Persistence ;)
I'm currently playing this now and I fucking love it!
 

Electro

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,899
Vienna
Have You Played It? Because that's not the conclusion I've come to based off what I've heard and seen. All I've heard is that it's discrete missions without cut scenes and after playing previous ACs I can see why they'd make that change. There's supposed to be a decent sized package with several hours worth of content.

I'm currently playing this now and I fucking love it!

Ace Combat 7 PSVR should take around 12-15 hours, sounds good imo.
http://vrthegamers.com/hands-ace-co...d-15-hours-gameplay-release-2018#.W3lC97jUdhG

And yeah, The Persistence is great :)
 

travisbickle

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,953
Brands Hatch in GT Sport VR is the standout for me.

Finally understand why drivers love it when they talk about it on the TV.

You can't appreciate the elevation on a flat screen.
 

cakefoo

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,407
When I think "gaming-redefining," I think of interactivity. Interactivity is inarguably at the core of this medium.

The believability factor of the HMD alone is fantastic, and it really does heighten games on an emotional level (fear, depression, awe, social, etc). But input is what opens up a whole new world of interactive possibilities.

What worked for a horror game isn't going to work for a multitude of games. I mean, take a PSVR game like Robinson: The Journey, and look at how many complaints there were about the lack of Move support.
 
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Alo81

Member
Oct 27, 2017
547
This thread was infuriating to read.

Dude spits like 20 straight posts of facts only to have replied "idk, I'm PRETTY SURE resolution is the only factor of SDE." Over and over again.

Ugh lol.

Much love and respect Krejlooc for keeping the masses informed.
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,521
Yes, it will solve screen door effect. We will come back to this archived post to laugh when 4K screens hugely lessen SDE and 8K screens all but eliminate it.

When you hit 16K per eye the pixels will be so small that there will be ZERO perceived screen door effect. You aren't going to increase screen door effect, when the whole idea is that you can see the space between pixels.

YOU CAN'T SEE THE SPACE BETWEEN 16K PER EYE PIXELS. Resolution wins. The more resolution you have the smaller those spaces inherently become next to each other considering the same display size.

A display is a fixed device. A pixel gets smaller and smaller with more resolution in the same display space. The space between your pixels can only get smaller as you reduce the size of each bordering pixel. Of course the lens and VR tech will stretch and distort a display to make it look like a real world to you. That doesn't have anything to do with the original display though, which is the main problem.

1920Ă—1200 (WUXGA)

15.4 0.173 146.8
17 0.191 132.9
23 0.258 98.4
24 0.270 94.0
25.5 0.287 88.5
27 0.303 83.8

3840Ă—2400 (WQUXGA)

22.2 0.125 203.2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot_pitch

According to this article the display size is directly related to the dot pitch, the second number there. Bigger display bigger dot pitch for one resolution. The PPI inversely proportional to the display size. This is exactly what I said before. These are facts man, you can't argue against these things.

As you can see the PPI increases hugely with resolution, and the dot pitch basically does as well depending on display size once again.

The one graph you posted was an incredibly poor example detailing a 64 bit screen and an 8 bit screen. But why would the pixels have that much space between them on only one screen? That does not make any sense if we are using the same technologies and displays, but one just has more resolution. I am going to trust a heavily edited and approved Wikipedia article and my own senses here, considering you did actually just admit a few posts back that resolution solves SDE in the center of the screen.

Your idea also fails when one takes into account 16K screens. You literally cannot see the space between pixels on a 16K screen, you cannot even see the pixels. And that is because they are too small. You can barely see them on a large 4K screen much less a small screen.
I hate to stir this back up but I think you're still somehow missing the point that the pixel density is the part that matters when we're talking about screen door. I'm quoting this post specifically because I think you state some things that start to get to Krejlooc's point.

A pixel gets smaller and smaller with more resolution in the same display space.

This is the caveat that proves his point. The size of the display matters. The size of the PIXEL matters. You can have a 16k display that's 20ft x 20ft OR one that's 6in x 6in. If the size of the pixels are the same, the screen door effect is going to be more pronounced on the larger screen because the pixels are more spread out. In other words, the resolution doesn't matter, it's the space between them. Yes you can improve or lessen screen door by packing more pixels in to the same space but (assuming the pixels are the same size) that's because the space between them is smaller, not because there are more of them. You can achieve the same effect with a lower resolution because it's a matter of literally moving pixels closer to each other regardless of the amount. The screen door effect would still be comparable, it's just that the lower resolution screen would be blurrier.

On a side note, I think it's funny you're talking to Krejlooc like he doesn't know what he's talking about. Dude easily has the most actual experience in this field out of any active member on this board. Maybe Durante can provide some back up here.
 
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ABK281

Member
Apr 5, 2018
3,001
I'm still waiting for VR on the PC version...I'm prepared to sell my Oculus as I never use it but I really wanted to play this before I sold it. At this point it seems like it will never be released on PC though.
 

Deleted member 2620

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,491
I don't think I could be less interested in focusing on how VR RE7 is given how engaging the combined experience is. I think that my absolute favorite VR games have still been gamepad-oriented seated experiences. I've liked games like Lone Echo, Superhot, To The Top, Beat Saber, Robo Recall, and so on: these are games that do fantastic new things that couldn't be done in any reasonably similar form without VR! Yet they couldn't utterly grip me like RE7 or Chronos could.

Of course, that's not on the tech. That's entirely on the software, and I have no doubt that better games than RE7 and Chronos will come. They may already be out there, I've got some games to catch up on.
 
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potentialtodisplease
Mar 17, 2018
2,927
I hate to stir this back up but I think you're still somehow missing the point that the pixel density is the part that matters when we're talking about screen door. I'm quoting this post specifically because I think you state some things that start to get to Krejlooc's point.



This is the caveat that proves his point. The size of the display matters. The size of the PIXEL matters. You can have a 16k display that's 20ft x 20ft OR one that's 6in x 6in. If the size of the pixels are the same, the screen door effect is going to be more pronounced on the larger screen because the pixels are more spread out. In other words, the resolution doesn't matter, it's the space between them. Yes you can improve or lessen screen door by packing more pixels in to the same space but (assuming the pixels are the same size) that's because the space between them is smaller, not because there are more of them. You can achieve the same effect with a lower resolution because it's a matter of literally moving pixels closer to each other regardless of the amount. The screen door effect would still be comparable, it's just that the lower resolution screen would be blurrier.

On a side note, I think it's funny you're talking to Krejlooc like he doesn't know what he's talking about. Dude easily has the most actual experience in this field out of any active member on this board. Maybe Durante can provide some back up here.

None of the points I made are illogical. I don't know the user. They did make some good points, but not in some areas. Some points are preposterous outside of the idea that pixel density matters. Did you read those posts, or are you just trying to look cool defending him on the board? Everyone agrees here that pixel density matters. Do you even know what the pixel density is? The PPI of your display involves resolution and display size. PLEASE REREAD PREVIOUS POSTS BEFORE MAKING ANY MORE POSTS ON THIS SUBJECT.

"This is the caveat that proves his point. The size of the display matters. The size of the PIXEL matters. You can have a 16k display that's 20ft x 20ft OR one that's 6in x 6in. If the size of the pixels are the same, the screen door effect is going to be more pronounced on the larger screen because the pixels are more spread out. In other words, the resolution doesn't matter, it's the space between them."

What the heck are you talking about? Honestly, what are you even saying here? Resolution does matter, and no you are wrong. It's the base standard for eliminating screen door because of how displays are developed. Displays currently ALWAYS lower pixel pitch when major resolutions changes happen, and it is a proven fact. Dot Pitch is the word you are looking for. Please go over previous posts before you make a post like this, because I will not answer any more of this.

THE SIZE OF THE PIXELS WILL NOT STAY THE SAME IN THE SAME DISPLAY SPACE when you increase resolution per modern manufacturing standards. You honestly think the pixels are staying the same size as we go from 1080p to 4K and then to 8K and up? Do you not realize dot pitch and pixel density are inherently connected to resolution and display size?

You say this is the caveat that proves his point, and then you literally offer no actual evidence that proves anything he said.

As I have stated many times it is display size and resolution that matters when talking pixel density. This is how you calculate PPI. What he is more or less talking about is dot pitch, the space between pixels, and he also talks about specific VR standards and the curvature of the lens. Nobody is debating auxiliary tech has a say in how much of a screen door you have. Of course the lenses matter lol they project the display properly, and yes there is bending and curvature and depth issues. But that has nothing to do with the actual display, which is what you will be staring at.

Dot pitch is so small at 16K you cannot even see a pixel on a 42 inch say. At 32K there is no way in VR you could see a pixel much less the space between pixels lol. Do you think the space between pixels somehow stays the same, or that manufacturers somehow have started making displays with pixels too small for their display? What madness is this? This is why I don't get that SDE comparison. It's not logical per today's manufacturing methods. No one is ever going to up resolution without creating the display by lowering pixel pitch.

He even admitted he was wrong and that resolution plays a part. He said just the dead center, but that is wrong as well. The actual display, no matter how much it is bent or distorted by the lens, is OBVIOUSLY the most important factor in eliminating ANY problems with screen door or pixel size. We are NOT changing display spaces, or hardly at all. The displays basically stay the same size or only slightly larger or smaller. The ONLY major thing that changes physically about the display is resolution these days, and it is easily the most relevant factor.
 
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potentialtodisplease
Mar 17, 2018
2,927
I hate to stir this back up but I think you're still somehow missing the point that the pixel density is the part that matters when we're talking about screen door. I'm quoting this post specifically because I think you state some things that start to get to Krejlooc's point.



This is the caveat that proves his point. The size of the display matters. The size of the PIXEL matters. You can have a 16k display that's 20ft x 20ft OR one that's 6in x 6in. If the size of the pixels are the same, the screen door effect is going to be more pronounced on the larger screen because the pixels are more spread out. In other words, the resolution doesn't matter, it's the space between them. Yes you can improve or lessen screen door by packing more pixels in to the same space but (assuming the pixels are the same size) that's because the space between them is smaller, not because there are more of them. You can achieve the same effect with a lower resolution because it's a matter of literally moving pixels closer to each other regardless of the amount. The screen door effect would still be comparable, it's just that the lower resolution screen would be blurrier.

On a side note, I think it's funny you're talking to Krejlooc like he doesn't know what he's talking about. Dude easily has the most actual experience in this field out of any active member on this board. Maybe Durante can provide some back up here.

How do pixels, and the dot pitch, stay the same size when you have to pack 4m plus MORE of them in the same display space? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?