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VinFTW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,470
First, off apologies if the thread title is a little gimicky.

As a fan of Xbox, MS are truly doing some exciting things I've personally been asking for since the Don Mattrick era. Game Pass is a great service, they've added quite a few teams to their first party, games are coming (albeit, far away) and the Series X seems to be quite an impressive piece of tech. What comes as a surprise to me is just how deflated, and down, ever since the Xbox games showcase. After recent news here on Era regarding third party exclusives, the past few months of reveals, marketing, and missteps, as well as the past 7 years of console sales, it's hard not to be a little fearful for Microsoft's gaming division in the upcoming generation. This thread is NOT to discuss their departure from gaming, that's not in the realm of constructive discussion, and not the point of this thread.

Here's what MS has to go up against:

1. A lackluster Halo infinite reveal
2. A less competent, still growing and maturing first party (don't take too much offense to "less competent", what I meant is really just in comparison to Sony's excellent first party roster).
3. An astronomical difference in social engagement/mindshare
4. Rather large difference in first 1-2 year exclusive titles, as well as now major third party exclusive games and content. For now, Halo Infinite is the only major launch release, as well as possibly the first year (if Forza manages to hit 2021).
5. Smaller divisional budget compared to Playstation
6. Lack of iOS support for their cloud gaming push, a would-have-been key feature for Game Pass
7. A less than stellar overall lead up in marketing/reveals for next-generation (No games running on Series X yet, no flagship, tentpole title to show off graphics tech, etc)
8. This one is more subjective, but the lack of "new", for me, is a little deflating (OS, controller, marketing colors/scheme/game cases, etc.).

Having said all that, it's hard not to be a little fearful for what will entail the first couple years of this gen. It would be a surprise to absolutely no one that PS5 may just end up being one of the best selling Playstation consoles of all time given their incredible steam they've garnered going into next-generation. It seems to be a recipe for (I hate this word) domination. A hugely popular console, a barrage of first party games, third party exclusive content/games/DLC and what seems to me, thus far, a lot more money spent in advertising.

What MS is offering gaming next-generation:

1. Heavily rumored and all but revealed, a price conscious next-generation console: Lockhart.
Still a lot to speculate on. Will it feature a controller? Disc drive? Will it just be a digital edition or a weaker console? Just how cheap is "cheap"? Enough to entice people engrossed in the Playstation ecosystem? It's a tough call, one that I'd have to say needs to be cheaper than Microsoft has ever been comfortable pricing their tech before. I have doubts on this one but it could be big if priced right

2. Game Pass
Across PC, Xbox, and as the tech grows, it seems the goal is to get it on TVs and other similar devices. While it's nice it's on Android, again, huge blow for not being on iOS which effectively kills the cloud gaming initiative for me unless I fork out several hundred for an Android device. Theoretically, having Game Pass available to stream on all mobile devices is huge. Will it come to fruition? I'm cautious.

3. Power.
This one is a bit cloudy, to be fair. Both consoles are doing different things, and as we've heard from industry vets, insiders, etc, the teraflop difference has little meaning, and the SSD seems to be doing big things for Sony. Question will be in how they both market, and at the end of the day, how the games/machines perform

4. In improved first party roster was listed above yes, but only in comparison to Sonys. Everwild, Fable, Avowed, Initiative and more. At least more exclusive content will be coming, which is a first for Xbox in a long, long time.

5. A launch Halo game.
Again, both negative and positive. Still optimistic this game will be a hit, given its f2p and the MP in 5 was stellar.

6. Steam releases.
Self explanatory, these seem to be doing so well, and in general, releasing games on PC ensures a bigger community and player population. Brilliant move which seems to be doing really well for MS thus far

7. Backwards Compatibility
This one may be overstated, but a nice feature nonetheless.

+/- Cross gen initiative.
Personally this is a negative but could entice more to invest in games that would otherwise have been left to just next-generation effectively limiting their playerbase.

I think at the end of the day, if Microsoft focuses strictly internally they could really come into their own this generation, similar to Playstation 3's transition from launch to mid-late generation. Not sure if Phil plans to be more aggressive, but I think competing for third party content is the wrong move for them. Build up first party studios, perhaps acquire more studios, and focus on offering games and content that attracts/draws people in. Games that must be played. After all, its all about the games. Sony has demonstrated that remarkably. It's not enough to offer what Sony does but less popularly and less effectively. There needs to be a reason for existing. Game Pass and games will be the key, offer something only they could do. Competing with Sony will likely not happen, and if it does, it wont be until mid generation at the earliest.

So I pose a question to you, and although it's in the title, it's not "Can they?", it's what can Microsoft do compete with Sony? What should they focus on going forward?
 

Deleted member 61469

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 17, 2019
1,587
Sony got big because they made games people loved.

Maybe start there and see what happens.
 

Raigor

Member
May 14, 2020
15,146
  1. They need to release good first games
  2. Keep pushing Gamepass on Xbox and PC
And that's it, they can't "compete" with Sony because PlayStation has a much bigger market penetration compared to Xbox, it was always like that and it will always be like that. If Sony is willing to spend millions and millions to secure third party titles for a short brief of time, it's even harder for Xbox to "compete".

People should always remember that PlayStation is a much bigger deal to Sony Corp financials and revenue, while Xbox is just a small piece for Microsoft, they make money, but they are not betting on Xbox to carry the whole company, unlike PlayStation which is vital for Sony Corp.
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,378
In terms of console unit sales, they can't. Not Worldwide anyway. PlayStation, globally, is (for better or worse) the de facto default console for the majority. Only Nintendo has similar appeal, however Nintendo consoles don't automatically receive practically every single third party game that's released, for obvious reasons.

In terms of users via services such as Game Pass etc. that may be different, however no matter what happens there, it will never be looked at as being competitive.
 

El-Pistolero

Banned
Jan 4, 2018
1,308
User Banned (1 week): platform warring
Yes, they can. They will continue buying developers (pro consumer optiom, unlike Evil Sony, who pays for timed exclusivity), and make GP a more enticing server than ever.
 

Prime2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,338
Based on threads here, just go moneyhat a ton of things. Its fine to do now I suppose.
 

Mad_Rhetoric

Banned
May 7, 2019
3,466
Uh MS is just fine, theyre currently in a huge resurgence and have a lineup of new studios. They already beat sony on pretty much everything else like hardware, services, value, BC, etc.
 

Bessy67

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,584
They can't compete with Playstation. They can be successful if they release good games on game pass but if they want to try and duke it out with sony in the traditional console sense they're not going to have a chance unless Satya massively increases the budget.
 

Khrol

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,179
User warned: Platform warring
Seems like Game Pass is all they really have and that's loaded with AA's and sloppy seconds from PlayStation. If you're not all in on Game Pass you're probably better served on PC or PS5.
 

nsilvias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,787
they arent competing with sony anymore just like nintendo doesnt compete with the rest of the industry.
 

Tunichtgut

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,294
Germany
I think they are on a good path, maybe not beat Sony, but compete on a much better level. We just have to wait a few years, till all these new MS studios bring out their games.
 

Navidson REC

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,428
I'm pretty confident Halo will be huge. Pretty much everything except the visual fidelity has been received very positively and the barrier of entry is lower than ever. If a game is fun, it doesn't matter if it's visually stunning or not.

And I say that as someone who expected better graphics. I'm still hoping that the Series X version will one day live up to the 2018 teaser.
 

Trago

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,605
Keep pushing their Game Pass strategy.

"Competing" with Sony in the traditional sense of just looking at console sales just doesn't apply anymore to me considering MS have now expanded availability of their titles on PC, and soon, mobile.
 

BadWolf

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,148
They never could directly compete, the only time they made ground was last gen and that was thanks to Sony shooting themselves in the foot with a machine gun.

The fact that MS is far more busy promoting game pass right now instead of their new console is very telling.
 

iksenpets

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,496
Dallas, TX
It's pretty clear they're more making a value play then trying to compete against Sony's core competencies. For people who aren't obsessively playing everything, getting a cheap Lockhart console plus Game Pass and never buying a full-price game again is pretty tempting. And for those who are more hardcore, the fact that Series X will probably have the best performing version of multi platform games will at the very least be tempting. They're years away from being able to compete with the Sony first party juggernaut, so this is probably the best angle they have, and it's really not a terrible one. Lockhart in particular I really think could work to get the console in a lot of homes if the price is right and the performance penalty isn't too steep, if they really have made it pretty easy for devs to make something to run at 4K60 on Series X and to downport it to Lockhart with essentially no changes other than now being 1080p30
 

GMM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,484
Neither console has what seems to be a compelling launch line up that separate them (you get Spider-Man or Halo) and the first party situation on both sides seem pretty dire well in to 2021, it's a all about the third party stuff and overall value proposition out of the gate.

Neither of these consoles seem like a good buy in 2020 because of the software situation, but it's easier to recommend the Series X because of Game Pass and the amount of value you get from day 1 by going that route if you want a 4K console.

Game Pass and xCloud are their big products, not the actual Series X. Next gen has nothing to do with hardware sales for Microsoft and their strategy for "winning" is by generating revenue as a service selling you games one way or another.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,616
They need good first party/exclusive games. I bought an X months ago and I've barely played it, I've just been playing PS4 first parties.


The games that convinced me to go for a 360 instead of a PS3 were the first two Mass Effect games.
 

Apathy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,992
They'll be successful doing their own thing, the same as Nintendo. Success isn't just measured in one way
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
Absolutely they can. Let people know that a lot of these timed exclusives ultimately end up on Game Pass and you'll get a lot of people happy to wait.
 

Raigor

Member
May 14, 2020
15,146
Game Pass and xCloud are their big products, not the actual Series X. Next gen has nothing to do with hardware sales for Microsoft and the their strategy for "winning" is by generating revenue as a service selling you games one way or another.

Exactly.

They already know at MS that they can't "win" a hardware units war with Sony and they are betting on selling games and services on Xbox, PC and Mobile.
 

Ryengeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,662
Georgia, US
Until they can prove themselves with w/e 1st party titles they have cooking, all they can do is continue pushing gamepass and xcloud for the people that love it because it is great value.

If at some point they allow VR to be implemented on the Series X, that'll be another step.
 

Chocobo115

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,311
Sweden
Imho, they should cultivate their own studios, and build some new interesting IPs.

And by that I don't mean buying established multiplatform studios like they have done the last couple of years.

If they did that, then I'd be interested in getting a Xbox.
 

tzare

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
Catalunya
They never could directly compete, the only time they made ground was last gen and that was thanks to Sony shooting themselves in the foot with a machine gun.

The fact that MS is far more busy promoting game pass right now instead of their new console is very telling.
This. Warchest. Using their financial position to put a 'cheap' sub based service so it can grow their ecosystem while eroding rival's
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
Cheapest console, most powerful console, PC, cloud gaming and game pass.
+ a ton of new dev studios
 

rebelcrusader

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,833
Will they sell more physical consoles than Sony....most likely not


Will they make more money in their gaming division....without a doubt
 

Shopolic

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
6,865
They have some new great studios which are working on big games.
They have a better hardware with likely same price as PS5 (or even lower).
They have another hardware with much less price.
They have Game Pass too and it's really an amazing thing for gamers and maybe I'll buy an XSX because of it.
Microsoft will have a difficult competition with a giant brand like PlayStation, but I think they can be successful.
 

tarman76

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,117
Sony got big because they made games people loved.

Maybe start there and see what happens.

I disagree. I think Sony took the lead with a $100 price difference for better hardware, then kept the momentum with the good games. Because, let's be honest, PS4 launch line up wasnt stellar, but the price was right.

MSis going to have to get its hands dirty to fight against this "PS Advantage" nonsense.
 

rochellepaws

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,452
Ireland
They seem to be positioning themselves as the budget friendly option this generation so maybe it'll help them find traction in price conscious markets around the world where they've traditionally struggled.
 

Dance Inferno

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,999
I actually don't think trying to outdo Sony in the same types of games they make (cinematic linear action games) is the only way to compete. Focusing on other types of games could work just as well: shooters, fighters, strategy, open world, platformers. Sony doesn't really have a lot of strength outside of its linear games, which is why Nintendo has done so well. There's an opportunity here for Xbox as well.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
Xbox Doomed!!!!


Its very clear that MS is going in its own direction, much like Nintendo is and Sony is. Enough space for people to try something new.
 

Navidson REC

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,428
Seems like Game Pass is all they really have and that's loaded with AA's and sloppy seconds from PlayStation. If you're not all in on Game Pass you're probably better served on PC or PS5.
To me personally, Gears and Halo remain some of the very best third- and first-person shooters out there. I'm a huge shooter guy who doesn't want to invest in a gaming PC in the foreseeable future. At the same time, I love experiencing a wide variety of different games. So Xbox and Game Pass are perfect for me.

Sony's third person action adventure games are dope and I'm looking forward to play more of them down the line for a couple of bucks each (no point in shelling out 60-70 bucks for single player games at release IMO), but going with PlayStation I'd miss out on what I've described above.

EDIT: Also very glad that Game Pass allowed me to experience "AA" games and "sloppy seconds" such as DOOM (2016), The Witcher 3, Hollow Knight, DMC V, and Red Dead Redemption 2.
 

TechnicPuppet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,834
Just what era was planning
Imho, they should cultivate their own studios, and build some new interesting IPs.

And by that I don't mean buying established multiplatform studios like they have done the last couple of years.

If they did that, then I'd be interested in getting a Xbox.

Sony's biggest game was Spiderman. An ancient IP made by a 3rd party studio they've now bought.
 

kirby_fox

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,733
Midwest USA
They're trying to differentiate themselves on the market. Their first party is going to feel different from Nintendo and Sony.

That's how they'll compete. By being different.
 

Prime2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,338
They do to be fair, what do you call buying up a half dozen studios?

Buying a studio is very different to paying to keep something like GTA off another console.

To add to this they bought up a ton of studios that either were in financial issues or locked to MS specifically i.e Playground games. The other option seemed to be in the future we may not have had those studios at all.
 

Bessy67

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,584
Until they can prove themselves with w/e 1st party titles they have cooking, all they can do is continue pushing gamepass and xcloud for the people that love it because it is great value.

If at some point they allow VR to be implemented on the Series X, that'll be another step.
VR is weird with MS. I totally understand them not wanting to spend the money to develop it but why not make a deal with Oculus for something?
 

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
it's always about games.

how about making some games that expand beyond the typical US/UK sensibilities & taste for a change?

Halo is no longer where it's at and Gears are never popular globally (seriously, i'm in asia...the aesthetic of gears is just too........'american').

Minecraft is popular globally but that's about it and nobody associates minecraft with xbox or microsoft in their mind.
 

Jawbreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
New York City
They can't, which is why they're going in the direction they've been on. Whether they're successful in their endeavour we'll have to wait and see.
 

DGxO

Member
Oct 21, 2018
432
Microsoft is competing in a completely different gaming space then Sony, or Nintendo, and thats okay.

Xbox will never sell as many units as Playstation, but that isn't Microsoft's aim, its to entice you to stay subscribed to game pass and join the greater Microsoft ecosystem of services and products,

Sony wants console units, Microsft wants MUAs (Monthly Active Users)

There is no console war as all three parties are fighting completely different fights.

This article from gameindustry.biz writer Christopher Dring does a great job of expanding on my points here

www.gamesindustry.biz

The console war is over | Opinion

The rhetoric and debate around the 'console war' can be quite entertaining.Not when it gets divisive and hateful. Memes…
 

Deleted member 63122

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 16, 2020
9,071
We are in a point that the console makers aren't making the same console and throwing it out there and let the fans decide. Everyone is doing their own thing. Albeit, Sony stayed in the same path since it was working for them, but MS and Nintendo are doing totally different things. And being objective, the way MS is going, if they succeed, they have the probability to grow more out of the other two. Xcloud and GP can bring in a lot of people.
 

Meg Cherry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,279
Seattle, WA
Offer a better product for the price, and be willing to spend competitively against PlayStation. Game Pass & a low-price entry console are going to be huge movers for the platform, but all of it is still tied to games - and if Sony can just spend enough to redirect those away from the Series X - the entire investment is for naught.

I think the other thing is that comparing console sales isn't going to make any sense in this upcoming gen. Microsoft is actively advocating for a cross-generational platform right now. They're not measuring success by Series X units moved. They're measuring it by platform engagement across Series X, ONE, and PC. It's a fundamentally different strategy from Sony. Obviously the two are still in competition, but the score at which they can be compared is completely invisible to the public.
 
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