Realistically, how is Microsoft expected to compete with Sony next generation? Can they?

[Hasan Ali Almaci]

Yes, they can. They will continue buying developers (pro consumer optiom, unlike Evil Sony, who pays for timed exclusivity), and make GP a more enticing server than ever.

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Sony literally entered the industry by buying devs, having them turn coat on their contracts and then happily footed the bills after they lost in court for their anti competitive practices.Tomb Raider a Sega exclusive that started as a Sega exclusive called Project Pyramid for 32X, Wipeout and Crazy Ivan started as Sega exclusives, Final Fantasy 7 and 8 were in dev for for snes and N64. Park place productions in Canada made FIFA, John Madden and Joe Montana games for EA and Sega. They said no to a Sony buyout so the owners one day came to their offices finding every single employee poached by Sony and they had to close shop an could not deliver the 93 Fifa and Joe Montana products they were assigned.

Sony has been the biggest and most aggressive fucker in this industry meanwhile MS has bought devs and still allowed them to release their games on switch and PS

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

They need great games and games that also appeal to regions outside of the US + UK.

They've invested in their FP studios, so they need to push for originality in AAA games that take major creative risks. Just aping popular concepts, or aping whatever Sony is doing isn't going to cut it.

They need games that stand alome as the pinnacle of their respective genres; even creating whole new ones.

They certainly own a large back catalogue of beloved IP, but I think they need to predominantly look ahead to new IP while leveraging their legacy IP in smaller AA titles to fill out the library.

 

[El-Pistolero]

LOL

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Euh.. You realize that the evil Sony part was a jab at the sanctimonious handling of recdnt news? ;)

 

[El-Pistolero]

Sony literally entered the industry by buying devs, having them turn coat on their contracts and then happily footed the bills after they lost in court for their anti competitive practices.Tomb Raider a Sega exclusive that started as a Sega exclusive called Project Pyramid for 32X, Wipeout and Crazy Ivan started as Sega exclusives, Final Fantasy 7 and 8 were in dev for for snes and N64. Park place productions in Canada made FIFA, John Madden and Joe Montana games for EA and Sega. They said no to a Sony buyout so the owners one day came to their offices finding every single employee poached by Sony and they had to close shop an could not deliver the 93 Fifa and Joe Montana products they were assigned.

Sony has been the biggest and most aggressive fucker in this industry meanwhile MS has bought devs and still allowed them to release their games on switch and PS

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LMFAO! 🤣🤣🤣

 

[Transistor]

I think it really depends on what you mean by compete? In the console space alone, I don't see it happening. Sony's acquisitions, their highly reviewed first party lineup, and their cutthroat tactics when it comes to timed exclusives is something that's so hard to compete with.

However, that's not saying Microsoft isn't going to do well. Sure they'll sell a good amount of Series X and Lockharts, but their main focus has moved beyond that. They're now about subscriptions:

Live Gold / Console Game Pass for consoles.
PC Game Pass for PC
XCloud for any number of devices

So I think Microsoft did a smart thing trying to carve out their niche, just like Nintendo did with the Switch after the Wii U.

Now, the one thing that worries me is the quality of Microsoft's first party output. This generation it really wasn't great. They've made some good strides and acquisitions, but none of them have really beared fruit for them yet. The worry comes from the fact that they're going to a subscription direction and how these first parties will tie into that, with keeping people engaged. I'm not saying all of their first party games are going to be service games. Games like Hellblade and other single player games will exist, but I think we'll see a heavy reduction in them in favor of the service games. Halo MP is going F2P, Infinite is being pitched as a "platform", multiple insiders have said that Fable will have MMO-Lite elements. Single player games that can be beaten in 12 hours and cost millions to make really aren't the type of thing they're going for when it comes to keeping subscriptions.

 

[Vinc]

They're hoping to. All this talk of going for another route is partially true but the idea that they've abandoned the race is pure nonsense. Sony and MS are still competing for the very same dollar. Microsoft just went the value route while they're building a first party arsenal they are hoping pays off. Game Pass is a move similar to Sony launching PS Plus last gen, when they were behind.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Having the most powerful system doesn't matter if your not showing what it can do.

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ok, and?

 

[tripleg]

Honestly, I wish the X-family could just go further all-in with the PC/Cloud integration. They've got the PC base that they can easily capitalize on and try to merge in a very meaningful way (i.e. market an Xbox as a mid-grade PC and make a more hybrid OS for Xbox/Windows) until we can get a reliable thin client for Xcloud.

 

[Typhon]

ok, and?

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Perception matters to the uninformed consumer.

 

[Deleted member 29249]

They need great games and games that also appeal to regions outside of the US + UK.

They've invested in their FP studios, so they need to push for originality in AAA games that take major creative risks. Just aping popular concepts, or aping whatever Sony is doing isn't going to cut it.

They need games that stand alome as the pinnacle of their respective genres; even creating whole new ones.

They certainly own a large back catalogue of beloved IP, but I think they need to predominantly look ahead to new IP while leveraging their legacy IP in smaller AA titles to fill out the library.

Click to shrink...

Japan is very Xenophobic, I really doubt MS could do anything there make a change. They pushed big durning the 360 and got th nowhere.

 

[DanteSparda504]

It really doesn't take much for the landscape to change. Look how Sony went from having the highest selling console of all time(PS2) to having the PS3, which trailed behind the Xbox 360 and the Wii.

Microsoft has a lot going for it, the landscape is different now than it was a couple of years ago for Microsoft. They just have to get a home run and deliver.

 

[LordBaztion]

Well, they are likely going to offer a console for roughly half the price of the competitor without charging 60 usd per game upfront and, hopefully, no paywall for online in the near future.

Something this market rewards is the cheapest entry point and MS had an option for that. It won't beat Sony but I expect them to perform way better than this generation. Also, the race shouldn't be see as hardware only.

 

[Deleted member 49611]

I don't know about anyone else but they are getting my money. I've owned every PlayStation. I'll probably still get a PS5 but I'll wait until there are more than 2 games I wanna play on it.

I'm going with Xbox because:

1. Prefer their controller. Been using the 360/One controller on PC and love it.
2. Specs. I'm not upgrading my PC anymore so getting the console with best specs.
3. Gamepass/xCloud
4. Backwards compatible for Xbox, 360, and One games.
4. Most importantly: exclusive games. Only 2 games on PS5 I am interested in but on Xbox I want to play Halo, Flight Sim, Forza and eventually Hellblade, State of Decay, Avowed, Fable.

 

[DeadmansTheory]

Compete with Sony in the traditional sense that most of us are use to? Not really but the next generation isn't the same thing we have gotten used to.

Sony is still following the traditional sense, you want to play their first party exclusives you will need the new PS5 system. That's it as it's the only way to play. Its worked for them for 4 generations and will be no different going forward.

Microsoft's strategy is not the traditional way anymore. They want to sell hardware but what they are offering is no longer tied to just a new console. Being able to play first party games on PC, phone, TV and even a current gen Xbox with Xcloud in some cases or the traditional way with XSX/S.

Some of us are so hardwired with how every console generation has worked that it has to be console vs console, myself included but its changing right in front of us. Good or bad, time will tell.

Now Sony and Microsoft give us the God damn prices already, I need my next gen consoles.

 

[Windu]

Close enough yes. 13 of the 22 (60%) were timed or full third party console exclusives, but 13 is still a high number, and ironically the exact same number Sony had at their own PS5 State of Play.

Xbox show timed or full third party console exclusives.

Tell Me Why
Stalker 2
The Gunk
Medium
Phantasy Star Online 2
CrossfireX
As Dusk Falls
Tetris Effect Connected
Warhammer 40,000: Dark Tide
Balan Wonderworld
Hello Neighbour 2
Echo Generation
ExoMecha

PS5 show timed or full third party console exclusives.

Project Athia
Returnal
Bugsnax
Ghostwire: Tokyo
Stray
Kena: Bridge of Spirits
Oddworld Soulstorm
Goodbye Volcano High
Jett: The Far Shore
Godfall
Solar Ash
Little Devil Inside
Deathloop

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Tell Me Why and As Dusk Falls are Xbox Game Studios games.

 

[daegan]

MS knows that they're not going to match PS WW. But they're doing more than enough to continue to make good money on gaming well into the future, which is enough.

 

[Starlatine]

Xbox show timed or full third party console exclusives.
Balan Wonderworld

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from where are you taking this idea that balan wonderworld is an exclusive in any sense? i dont remember square saying anything of sort nor giving release dates other than Spring 2021, and pc and ps4/5 xbox one/xsx were listed as platforms

So what is BALAN WONDERWORLD exactly? | Square Enix

Find out about BALAN WONDERWORLD - an exciting new action platformer from the creator of Sonic the Hedgehog

square-enix-games.com

 

[魑魅魍魎]

Japan is very Xenophobic, I really doubt MS could do anything there make a change. They pushed big durning the 360 and got th nowhere.

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Why are iPhones and Apple products so popular if Japan is xenophobic? Please don't blanket an entire country just because the Xbox is not selling well there. If anything a lot of people there who play games are mostly into handheld Nintendo games just by going off the sales of the switch.

I think that Microsoft and Sony do not need to compete. There is enough marketshare for 3 gaming companies.

 

[NPTinker]

More supports in markets like SEA, India, good region pricing

 

[Mahonay]

Japan is very Xenophobic, I really doubt MS could do anything there make a change. They pushed big durning the 360 and got th nowhere.

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Lmao this is not why Xbox failed to penetrate the Japanese market. What is this nonsense statement? It's offensive. What's wrong with you?

 

[hateradio]

Is Sony still relying on MS's cloud to run their PS Network?

 

[gremlinz1982]

As for MS leaving the hardware business in the next decade *press X to doubt*

I do believe MS is looking to exit the hardware business at some point, but that won't happen until cloud gaming truly takes off (which will be largely dependent on how internet infrastructure worlwide evolves).

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They will never exit the hardware business.

 

[Haze]

Two different business models.

Sony is sticking to the traditional tent pole releases to push hardware.

Microsoft has hardware and games as well but they are ancillary one pushing Xbox as a service and having their fingers in as many pies as possible.

Both will work.

 

[bakedpony]

The key to Microsoft being successful is to have success without beating Playstation. It is going to be impossible for Xbox to have a larger install base then PS5 worldwide.

Even at their worst, PS3 still ended up beating 360. If MS can get people to sign up to Gamepass, even PS5 owners, then that would be a success for them

 

[Tomo815]

Why are iPhones and Apple products so popular if Japan is xenophobic? Please don't blanket an entire country just because the Xbox is not selling well there. If anything a lot of people there who play games are mostly into handheld Nintendo games just by going off the sales of the switch.

I think that Microsoft and Sony do not need to compete. There is enough marketshare for 3 gaming companies.

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Exactly. There are US companies that do great in Japan, McDonalds, Apple, Disney, and MS itself with their operating systems.

The Xbox as a whole is just too US-centric to have much of an appeal outside the traditional Anglophone sphere.

 

[headspawn]

Japan is very Xenophobic, I really doubt MS could do anything there make a change. They pushed big durning the 360 and got th nowhere.

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MS could've started some development studios in Japan, that would've helped; in all honesty it seems more like they just dumped money there, some people got rich and didn't do much of anything. Tossing a few bucks randomly different 3rd party developers was clearly not the answer, they had zero follow up or resilience with even titles they did help get made.

 

[Iwao]

It really doesn't take much for the landscape to change. Look how Sony went from having the highest selling console of all time(PS2) to having the PS3, which trailed behind the Xbox 360 and the Wii.

Microsoft has a lot going for it, the landscape is different now than it was a couple of years ago for Microsoft. They just have to get a home run and deliver.

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What makes up that home run? It took at lot of mistakes for the PS3 to trail behind the Xbox 360 and Wii. Do you forsee similar mistakes from Sony with the PS5, or based on everything we know is it not far more likely that they are on a trajectory to be even more successful than the PS4 was? Xbox has an uphill climb when compared to PlayStation's core strengths as a console brand and the decisions that they've made in the run up to this generation. There's potential in Xbox's strategy though, aspects even Sony won't be delivering on and if they double down they can carve out their own niche and be successful in that.

 

[bottledfox]

If they can make XSX a great value proposition via GamePass and a strong first-party lineup, they'll be in good shape. Of course GamePass is also on PC, but the offering isn't exactly the same as far as I can tell.

 

[gremlinz1982]

What makes up that home run? It took at lot of mistakes for the PS3 to trail behind the Xbox 360 and Wii. Do you forsee similar mistakes from Sony with the PS5, or based on everything we know is it not far more likely that they are on a trajectory to be even more successful than the PS4 was? Xbox has an uphill climb when compared to PlayStation's core strengths as a console brand and the decisions that they've made in the run up to this generation.

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The gaming market was at its zenith in that ps3 generation when it comes to console sales. We are also going to see one great recession, and unlike the USA where the government is printing money and paying people, most other countries do not have that.
Pricing will be key.

 

[Dusk Golem]

I'm not going to say too much, but from some murmurings I've been hearing, I'll just say I suspect this topic is going to age "interestingly" when a few more details on both platforms are revealed.

I mean this in a few more ways, but to give the broadest idea, I'll just say the Xbox X is by far more powerful than the PS5 if we're just talking raw power, multi-platform games will run better on Xbox X is something people are going to have to prepare themselves for. Add to this Microsoft are ready to lowball Sony when it comes to price. They can more easily make a sacrifice and get back profits from Game Pass than console sales than Sony can from that comparatively.

 

[Finaj]

I'm not going to say too much, but from some murmurings I've been hearing, I'll just say I suspect this topic is going to age "interestingly" when a few more details on both platforms are revealed.

I mean this in a few more ways, but to give the broadest idea, I'll just say the Xbox X is by far more powerful than the PS5 and Microsoft are ready to lowball Sony when it comes to price. They can more easily make a sacrifice and get back profits from Game Pass than console sales than Sony can from the comparatively.

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Huh. Interesting. Thanks for the input, Dusk Golem.

 

[Merc]

A lot of people are mentioning "worldwide". The XSX will definitely be very competitive to the PS5 in the US. I don't think MS cares how good it does worldwide. If the XSX is competitive in the United States, that is all Microsoft cares about.

 

[Jerm411]

I'm not going to say too much, but from some murmurings I've been hearing, I'll just say I suspect this topic is going to age "interestingly" when a few more details on both platforms are revealed.

I mean this in a few more ways, but to give the broadest idea, I'll just say the Xbox X is by far more powerful than the PS5 if we're just talking raw power, multi-platform games will run better on Xbox X is something people are going to have to prepare themselves for. Add to this Microsoft are ready to lowball Sony when it comes to price. They can more easily make a sacrifice and get back profits from Game Pass than console sales than Sony can from that comparatively.

Click to shrink...

It'd be interesting to see games running on the Series X to make definitive power and look claims...just saying.

Also if MS is going to lowball Sony so hard, what on earth is the point of the Lockhart?

 

[Derktron]

As long as they can put out new games and to continue to market Xcloud along with Gamepass then yes they could definitely compete with PlayStation. Also if games have better performances than the PS5 than some are willing to jump to get the Series X to get better performances.

 

[NippleViking]

It'd be interesting to see games running on the Series X to make definitive power and look claims...just saying.

Also if MS is going to lowball Sony so hard, what on earth is the point of the Lockhart?

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They spent the tail end of this generation low-balling the PS4 in price, yet it hardly made a dent. If they want to have any hope of gaining market-share, swaying people to their ecosystem, and offsetting the enormous mindshare advantage Sony has over them they'll need to be more than just a little bit cheaper, hence Lockhart.

 

[Jerm411]

They spent the tail end of this generation low-balling the PS4 in price, yet it hardly made a dent. To gain market-share and offset the enormous mindshare Sony has they can't just be a bit lower, but significantly lower.

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Exactly...and it would not surprise me at all to see the PS5 DE at $399 so not like there's a lot of leeway there.

 

[Dusk Golem]

It'd be interesting to see games running on the Series X to make definitive power and look claims...just saying.

Also if MS is going to lowball Sony so hard, what on earth is the point of the Lockhart?

Click to shrink...

Because most of their first part games for the platform only started dev about two years ago. They had a change of management in 2018, and went to finish previously greenlit titles by old management while greenlighting new ones/buying new studios.

That does lead to most of what they're up to not being ready quite yet, but they are competing in other fronts. Sony does have an advantage in some other ways from how I personally see it, but as this topic is about how Microsoft I can mention I've been hearing about this for a while. Their lockhart has to do that whoever pulls the trigger kinda' sets the precedent to be compared to.

 

[Kyoufu]

I'm not going to say too much, but from some murmurings I've been hearing, I'll just say I suspect this topic is going to age "interestingly" when a few more details on both platforms are revealed.

I mean this in a few more ways, but to give the broadest idea, I'll just say the Xbox X is by far more powerful than the PS5 if we're just talking raw power, multi-platform games will run better on Xbox X is something people are going to have to prepare themselves for. Add to this Microsoft are ready to lowball Sony when it comes to price. They can more easily make a sacrifice and get back profits from Game Pass than console sales than Sony can from that comparatively.

Click to shrink...

This reads like fanboy nonsense tbh. XSX is more powerful yes, but "by far"? I don't think so. The part about Microsoft lowballing Sony in price is warchest tier at best. I doubt Game Pass is even profitable enough right now to make up for heavy hardware losses.

 

[Dusk Golem]

This reads like fanboy nonsense tbh. XSX is more powerful yes, but "by far"? I don't think so. The part about Microsoft lowballing Sony in price is warchest tier at best. I doubt Game Pass is even profitable enough right now to make up for heavy hardware losses.

Click to shrink...

Trust me, it's not. I have no real tail in this race as I'm not planning to pick up either platform in the long-run, I'm primarily a PC gamer and pick consoles up down the line (and will end up getting both when budget and interest allows it).

PS5 is easier to develop for overall and Sony has very talented studios behind it that will get the most out of the PS5, that I have no doubts about either, but this topic is about how Microsoft will compete so what I'm focused on. But when it comes to cross-platform games, they will end up performing a lot better on Xbox X. Xbox X will have the tech advantage over PS5, and it will be more than marginable.

A lot of the time this stuff sounds fake, but it keeps being said for reason. Months ago I and others were trying to tell people the price for both consoles weren't set and both Sony and Microsoft were waiting for the other to pull the trigger before prices would be announced. Many back then said the same thing you just did, "of course they know the price of the platforms," and yes they do have a range of how low they can go and how high they think they can get away with, but here we are months later and look where we're at. Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.

 

[NippleViking]

Exactly...and it would not surprise me at all to see the PS5 DE at $399 so not like there's a lot of leeway there.

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Oh totally. Very tricky situation for MS, and they're hugely on the backfoot.

That said, the pricing war doesn't start and stop at launch. If Lockhart only permits a $50-$100 difference vs. the PS5 DE then sure it's initially moot. But if component prices fall fast enough, and MS is able to win the race down to the <$249 or even $199 impulse-buy pricepoint within 2-3 years, that could be a very compelling offer.

Who knows though, and really Lockhart isn't about competing with the PS5 per se, but providing the cheapest passage into next-gen Gamepass.

 

[Skunk]

Buying a studio is very different to paying to keep something like GTA off another console.

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I mean, that's probably the last thing I would worry about. GTA V has made billions of dollars, well north of $6B by now. It's the most successful entertainment product ever. To buy exclusivity for that surely would cost more money than Sony will ever pay for a moneyhat. I can't see that ever happening.

 

[Kyoufu]

Trust me, it's not. I have no real tail in this race as I'm not planning to pick up either platform in the long-run, I'm primarily a PC gamer and pick consoles up down the line (and will end up getting both when budget and interest allows it).

A lot of the time this stuff sounds fake, but it keeps being said for reason. Months ago I and others were trying to tell people the price for both consoles weren't set and both Sony and Microsoft were waiting for the other to pull the trigger before prices would be announced. Many back then said the same thing you just did, and here we are months later and look where we're at. Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.

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We know the specs of both consoles. In terms of raw power, the Series X GPU is around 18% stronger. That's a much smaller gap than this gen. Also if Microsoft were in such a position that they can take heavy losses on Series X then Lockhart has no reason to exist. It sounds fake because it is.

 

[Deleted member 43]

This thread is silly.

Of course they'll compete. And there is plenty of space for both these players to be successful.

 

[keidash]

The only way to beat Sony is by Sony making a lot of missteps and MS keep doing good moves, but not all MS moves are good and Sony hardly does missteps...

 

[Uzupedro]

''By far'' is a strong statement, I don't doubt Dusk because he has inside information, but this is kinda against of what we already hear, at least about the PS5, easy to develop for, not to behind in terms of GPU power, and on par or better in other areas, and devs are with devkits for sometime now.
Well, I won't bet against his word, so we will have to wait.

 

[Witness]

I'm not going to say too much, but from some murmurings I've been hearing, I'll just say I suspect this topic is going to age "interestingly" when a few more details on both platforms are revealed.

I mean this in a few more ways, but to give the broadest idea, I'll just say the Xbox X is by far more powerful than the PS5 if we're just talking raw power, multi-platform games will run better on Xbox X is something people are going to have to prepare themselves for. Add to this Microsoft are ready to lowball Sony when it comes to price. They can more easily make a sacrifice and get back profits from Game Pass than console sales than Sony can from that comparatively.

Click to shrink...

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. I'm excited to see games finally run on this thing and this apparent low price shock they will do. I just hope we don't have to wait too long to know.

 

[christocolus]

I'm not going to say too much, but from some murmurings I've been hearing, I'll just say I suspect this topic is going to age "interestingly" when a few more details on both platforms are revealed.

I mean this in a few more ways, but to give the broadest idea, I'll just say the Xbox X is by far more powerful than the PS5 if we're just talking raw power, multi-platform games will run better on Xbox X is something people are going to have to prepare themselves for. Add to this Microsoft are ready to lowball Sony when it comes to price. They can more easily make a sacrifice and get back profits from Game Pass than console sales than Sony can from that comparatively.

Click to shrink...

I hope you're right though, cos I want some stiff competition next gen. Don't really mind all the dlc and timed exclusive stuff Sony is doing, I just want MS to go all out too. I bet they're watching and reading stuff and basically keeping up with all that's happening. If the competition isn't playing it safe then they shouldn't either. MS was ready to pick up Tik Tok and WB Gaming for billions of dollars. GP is a whole new platform for Xbox and hence it should be treated as such with some considerable investment going forward. They need to be ready to spend big time and i bet they will, especially after seeing what the competition is doing and the reactions online. Next gen will be interesting though and those DF face off threads...... -_-

 

[Deleted member 7462]

Sony got big because they made games people loved.

Maybe start there and see what happens.

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Yeah, I don't want to be reductive, but I agree with you in general.

The key to competing and doing it well is IP, IP, IP.

If you have the IP that people care about, you're always a generation away from getting back in the game (see Nintendo with the Wii and then again with the Switch). If you don't, you're going to always be dependent on third-party products, and as we can see right now, a competitor with big pockets can take that away from you.

 

[Prine]

Trust me, it's not. I have no real tail in this race as I'm not planning to pick up either platform in the long-run, I'm primarily a PC gamer and pick consoles up down the line (and will end up getting both when budget and interest allows it).

PS5 is easier to develop for overall and Sony has very talented studios behind it that will get the most out of the PS5, that I have no doubts about either, but this topic is about how Microsoft will compete so what I'm focused on. But when it comes to cross-platform games, they will end up performing a lot better on Xbox X. Xbox X will have the tech advantage over PS5, and it will be more than marginable.

A lot of the time this stuff sounds fake, but it keeps being said for reason. Months ago I and others were trying to tell people the price for both consoles weren't set and both Sony and Microsoft were waiting for the other to pull the trigger before prices would be announced. Many back then said the same thing you just did, "of course they know the price of the platforms," and yes they do have a range of how low they can go and how high they think they can get away with, but here we are months later and look where we're at. Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.

Click to shrink...

Holy shit! Beast mode huh?! Thanks for the insight 😊

 

[TheRealBigRich]

They spent the tail end of this generation low-balling the PS4 in price, yet it hardly made a dent. If they want to have any hope of gaining market-share, swaying people to their ecosystem, and offsetting the enormous mindshare advantage Sony has over them they'll need to be more than just a little bit cheaper, hence Lockhart.

Click to shrink...

just my opinion but I do feel like there's a pretty big difference between being more expensive at the start then going cheaper vs being cheaper at start . Now for sure Xbox will not sell more boxes than PS5 with just a XSX but a Lockhart at close to half the price and some good games will at least imo have it do better than Xbox one